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Replying To Whammo86:  "No, they should be completed at the start of the year."
The starting date of the Allianz Leagues and the end date of the All-Ireland club championships should be no more than 11 months. If you are playing in the All-Ireland club final, you should have at least a month before crucial intercounty league games.
Have the GAA, especially county boards, a stronger desire for the leagues starting in February than they have for the All-Ireland finals in August?

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6832 - 11/03/2022 18:17:01    2404976

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I'm a perfect world sure, maybe.

County game is the monster here though and those managers want access to their players in season at all times in season. That would be the stumbling block and until that could be resolved split season is the best alternative available."
I agree - unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world. I think that's the crux of the problem though - county managers want access to "their" players at all times.

I hope we'll eventually see that the club game and county game are stronger together and get the best of both worlds for everybody.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 189 - 16/03/2022 15:43:28    2405751

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The starting date of the Allianz Leagues and the end date of the All-Ireland club championships should be no more than 11 months. If you are playing in the All-Ireland club final, you should have at least a month before crucial intercounty league games.
Have the GAA, especially county boards, a stronger desire for the leagues starting in February than they have for the All-Ireland finals in August?"
Having gone through the whole calendar- week by week - game by game the below is the best that can be done, which gives you the 11 months but for sigerson/fitzgibbon filling that 1 month gap


2023 master fixtures

08/01-01/02 - sigerson with final on Brigids day
05/02 - 17/03 - fitzgibbon with finals on St Patricks day
05/02 - 10/04 - NFL with finals on Easter Monday /all ireland U20 football championship
19/03 - 01/05 - NHL with finals on May bank holiday Monday /All ireland U20 hurling championship
17/04 - 07/05 Provincial football championships
14/05 - 02/07 joe McDonagh/Christy ring
14/05 - 16/07 Tailteann Cup
14/05 - 02/07 Hurling prov championships
21/05 - 16/07 Sam maguire cup
09/07 - 06/08 Hurling All ireland

CLUB football
02/07 - 27/08 club football championships (16 counties)
23/07 - 10/09 club football championships in 8 counties (tailteann and Sam maguire semifinalists)
30/07 - 17/09 club football in 4 counties (hurling q finalist & prelim q finalists)
13/08 - 30/09 club football in 4 counties (hurling semifinalists)

CLUB HURLING
03/09 - 22/10 (16 counties)
17/09 - 05/11 (8 counties)
24/09 - 12/11 (4 counties)
08/10 - 26/11 (4 counties)

PROVINCIAL CLUB CHAMPIONSHIPS
29/10 - prelim rounds in football
05/10 - prelim rounds in hurling
12/10 - prov quarter finals in football
19/10 - prov quarter finals in hurling
19/11 - provincial football semi finals
26/11 - provincial hurling semi finals
03/12 - provincial football finals
10/12 - provincial hurling finals
17/12 - all ireland club football semifinals
01/01 - All ireland club football final
21/01 - all ireland club hurling semi finals
01/02 - all ireland club hurling final (double header with sigerson finals)

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 987 - 20/03/2022 17:33:51    2405955

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "Having gone through the whole calendar- week by week - game by game the below is the best that can be done, which gives you the 11 months but for sigerson/fitzgibbon filling that 1 month gap


2023 master fixtures

08/01-01/02 - sigerson with final on Brigids day
05/02 - 17/03 - fitzgibbon with finals on St Patricks day
05/02 - 10/04 - NFL with finals on Easter Monday /all ireland U20 football championship
19/03 - 01/05 - NHL with finals on May bank holiday Monday /All ireland U20 hurling championship
17/04 - 07/05 Provincial football championships
14/05 - 02/07 joe McDonagh/Christy ring
14/05 - 16/07 Tailteann Cup
14/05 - 02/07 Hurling prov championships
21/05 - 16/07 Sam maguire cup
09/07 - 06/08 Hurling All ireland

CLUB football
02/07 - 27/08 club football championships (16 counties)
23/07 - 10/09 club football championships in 8 counties (tailteann and Sam maguire semifinalists)
30/07 - 17/09 club football in 4 counties (hurling q finalist & prelim q finalists)
13/08 - 30/09 club football in 4 counties (hurling semifinalists)

CLUB HURLING
03/09 - 22/10 (16 counties)
17/09 - 05/11 (8 counties)
24/09 - 12/11 (4 counties)
08/10 - 26/11 (4 counties)

PROVINCIAL CLUB CHAMPIONSHIPS
29/10 - prelim rounds in football
05/10 - prelim rounds in hurling
12/10 - prov quarter finals in football
19/10 - prov quarter finals in hurling
19/11 - provincial football semi finals
26/11 - provincial hurling semi finals
03/12 - provincial football finals
10/12 - provincial hurling finals
17/12 - all ireland club football semifinals
01/01 - All ireland club football final
21/01 - all ireland club hurling semi finals
01/02 - all ireland club hurling final (double header with sigerson finals)"
Very well worked out there. It feel that very clearly shows there's a serious tail to the season.

October, November, December and January are used to play out the Club All Ireland. We've already pushed the All Ireland Football and Hurling championships into the start of the summer to complete the club championship in a calendar year. It seems like the tail wagging the dog.

Here's an idea - instead of trying to play the games out like that - lets give the county champions a bye to the following year's county championship. That would mean giving both Senior and Intermediate winners a bye to the county 1/4 finals with the remaining teams battling it out for the final 6 spots through group round robins and preliminary rounds. The club All Ireland could then take place at the same time as the next years county round robins. That would save many weekends and allow for a decent close season for all involved. The whole season layout could be moved forward or back to fit when we want All Ireland and County finals to be played.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 189 - 21/03/2022 16:05:43    2406274

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Replying To brianb:  "Very well worked out there. It feel that very clearly shows there's a serious tail to the season.

October, November, December and January are used to play out the Club All Ireland. We've already pushed the All Ireland Football and Hurling championships into the start of the summer to complete the club championship in a calendar year. It seems like the tail wagging the dog.

Here's an idea - instead of trying to play the games out like that - lets give the county champions a bye to the following year's county championship. That would mean giving both Senior and Intermediate winners a bye to the county 1/4 finals with the remaining teams battling it out for the final 6 spots through group round robins and preliminary rounds. The club All Ireland could then take place at the same time as the next years county round robins. That would save many weekends and allow for a decent close season for all involved. The whole season layout could be moved forward or back to fit when we want All Ireland and County finals to be played."
That is a very good idea.

Play the 2022 all ireland club championships in the summer of 2023 just after the all ireland intercounty season.
Once you get knocked out of the previous years provincial/all ireland club championship your back into your own county championship.

That's such a big reward for winning a county title that all the clubs in the county would vote against it.

I thinks it's a great idea though. Would save a month of fixtures at least

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 987 - 21/03/2022 17:43:50    2406302

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Any word from the people who didn't want bottom 3 in Div 1 playing for Sam.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 1269 - 27/03/2022 21:06:22    2407561

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Any word from the people who didn't want bottom 3 in Div 1 playing for Sam."
The CPA were in favour of the calendar year plan. It'll be better for the players.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6832 - 29/03/2022 21:13:45    2408238

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Any word from the people who didn't want bottom 3 in Div 1 playing for Sam."
Gone very quiet. Proposal B was awful and it only got traction because of OTB and people were desperate for change. Green Plan is close to what the championship will look like 10 years from now.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 595 - 30/03/2022 09:49:44    2408255

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "Gone very quiet. Proposal B was awful and it only got traction because of OTB and people were desperate for change. Green Plan is close to what the championship will look like 10 years from now."
You're bang on the money. The OTB team of presenters had no feel whatsoever for what they were talking about. What was hugely worrying was that Larry McCarthy and Tom Ryan both advocated for Proposal B as well. That would lead you to worry about the quality of leadership in the GAA. I would have no confidence in either of them.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5796 - 30/03/2022 10:32:14    2408278

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "Gone very quiet. Proposal B was awful and it only got traction because of OTB and people were desperate for change. Green Plan is close to what the championship will look like 10 years from now."
Yeah I think it's pretty decent really.

There could be some problems creep up at the margins but the main thing is that 2 tiers of 4 groups of 4 is a very natural format for the championship.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3799 - 30/03/2022 10:43:10    2408280

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Yeah I think it's pretty decent really.

There could be some problems creep up at the margins but the main thing is that 2 tiers of 4 groups of 4 is a very natural format for the championship."
3 Tiers of 16, 8 and 8 would be better but we have what we have so let it rip.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 368 - 30/03/2022 10:52:43    2408286

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Yeah I think it's pretty decent really.

There could be some problems creep up at the margins but the main thing is that 2 tiers of 4 groups of 4 is a very natural format for the championship."
I think they'll cut the provincial link eventually and keep a league link so Tailteann cup champions + top 15 in League which would be the Div 3 champions in most years. The preliminary round is a bit flabby but necessary to avoid dead rubbers. Maybe the second placed team should get home advantage here.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 595 - 30/03/2022 11:04:54    2408291

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There's an acceptance and acknowledgement that tweaks might have to be made. That's understandable.
If the 2023 format was in operation this year, the expectation would be that Dublin, Kildare and Derry would be virtually guaranteed a Top 16 place. Ulster with 5 teams will have come out of it very well placed.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6832 - 30/03/2022 11:55:41    2408309

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "3 Tiers of 16, 8 and 8 would be better but we have what we have so let it rip."
With recent provincial winners Cavan and Tipperary topping Division 4, it seems unnecessary to split the Tailteann Cup at this time.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6832 - 30/03/2022 12:29:24    2408322

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "I think they'll cut the provincial link eventually and keep a league link so Tailteann cup champions + top 15 in League which would be the Div 3 champions in most years. The preliminary round is a bit flabby but necessary to avoid dead rubbers. Maybe the second placed team should get home advantage here."
I disagree. The League has replaced the qualifiers. The provincial qualification remains. 8 teams qualifying through their province and 8 teams qualifying through the league is a fair split.
There is an argument for only provincial winners qualifying. Division 2 teams will have an influence on any motions around that.
If there was a go between option of only provincial winners from Connaught & Munster and provincial finalists from Leinster & Ulster, it would guarantee that every team would have to win at least 2 games to qualify through their province.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6832 - 30/03/2022 12:39:18    2408325

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Replying To legendzxix:  "With recent provincial winners Cavan and Tipperary topping Division 4, it seems unnecessary to split the Tailteann Cup at this time."
Yeah I'd agree.

4 tiers for the secondary competition and 2 tiers for the primary competition makes a lot of sense.

The bottom teams have the league to play for silverware and it's meaningful to get up to division 3. I kind of think division 3 champions should get a spot and that provincial runners up shouldn't but that's a small tweak.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3799 - 30/03/2022 12:51:21    2408330

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Replying To legendzxix:  "I disagree. The League has replaced the qualifiers. The provincial qualification remains. 8 teams qualifying through their province and 8 teams qualifying through the league is a fair split.
There is an argument for only provincial winners qualifying. Division 2 teams will have an influence on any motions around that.
If there was a go between option of only provincial winners from Connaught & Munster and provincial finalists from Leinster & Ulster, it would guarantee that every team would have to win at least 2 games to qualify through their province."
Provinces shouldn't play any role. It's an unfair system which sees Kerry play one Div 2 side to get to a final whereas Tyrone will have 3 tough games to get to the same place.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 595 - 30/03/2022 13:28:42    2408351

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Yeah I think it's pretty decent really.

There could be some problems creep up at the margins but the main thing is that 2 tiers of 4 groups of 4 is a very natural format for the championship."
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It's not really decent Whammo.
We get to play 24 (4*6) group games to tell us that the 13-16th placed teams - Cork, Offaly Down etc aren't making the prelim Qtr finals which is where the actual champo starts. OK the pecking order gets sorted out but that makes no diff once you lose your prelim or Qtr. There will be endless nothing games - if people are happy with that, fine.
Frankly it's a nonsense if meaningful games are what you want.

timmyhogan (UK) - Posts: 290 - 30/03/2022 14:17:54    2408371

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Replying To timmyhogan:  ".

It's not really decent Whammo.
We get to play 24 (4*6) group games to tell us that the 13-16th placed teams - Cork, Offaly Down etc aren't making the prelim Qtr finals which is where the actual champo starts. OK the pecking order gets sorted out but that makes no diff once you lose your prelim or Qtr. There will be endless nothing games - if people are happy with that, fine.
Frankly it's a nonsense if meaningful games are what you want."
.

One interesting aspect of it is that the draw for the Ulster & Connacht champos suddenly become even more important.
Otherwise it might best be described by that old Russian proverb that some fellow called Putin used a few years back;
"It's a bit like shearing a pig - lots of squealing but very little wool"

timmyhogan (UK) - Posts: 290 - 30/03/2022 15:14:21    2408401

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Replying To timmyhogan:  ".

It's not really decent Whammo.
We get to play 24 (4*6) group games to tell us that the 13-16th placed teams - Cork, Offaly Down etc aren't making the prelim Qtr finals which is where the actual champo starts. OK the pecking order gets sorted out but that makes no diff once you lose your prelim or Qtr. There will be endless nothing games - if people are happy with that, fine.
Frankly it's a nonsense if meaningful games are what you want."
Those 13 to 16 teams could all beat 9-12 on a good day so not as certain as you are making it out to be. The 4 groups of 4 would be better if there was promotion/relegation and that may come down the line once the bloated format becomes clear for everyone to see.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 595 - 30/03/2022 16:26:44    2408444

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