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The new groups of 4 for next year should have provincial champions seeded and all others seeded based on the league.
Provincial winners should be rewarded with 2 home games.
The Division 1, Division 2, Division 3 and Tailteann Cup winners should also be rewarded with 2 home games. This would mean that Division 1, Division 2, Division 3 and Tailteann Cup winners would have to be drawn in different groups.
The Division 3 winner isn't guaranteed a Top 16 place. Division 1, Division 2, Division 3 and Tailteann Cup winners could also happen to win their province.
Where a group doesn't have a Division 1, Division 2, Division 3 and Tailteann Cup winner to be rewarded 2 home games, the team in Pot 2 can gain the second home game by luck of the draw.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6832 - 03/03/2022 13:29:28    2403627

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Replying To Whammo86:  "It wouldn't work for duel players."
What would?
What there now is doing it for anyone.

How many actual dual players/clubs/counties are there.
Most dual counties are actual spilt into hurling/football by geography.

I have never heard a dual county/player put forward any kind of championship structure that would suit dual counties.

If they are that bothered surely someone would have come up with something.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 987 - 05/03/2022 14:19:02    2403884

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "What would?
What there now is doing it for anyone.

How many actual dual players/clubs/counties are there.
Most dual counties are actual spilt into hurling/football by geography.

I have never heard a dual county/player put forward any kind of championship structure that would suit dual counties.

If they are that bothered surely someone would have come up with something."
There are plenty of duel clubs all over the country.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3799 - 05/03/2022 17:17:40    2403932

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Replying To Whammo86:  "There are plenty of duel clubs all over the country."
There is but they don't really make an attempt to address the player welfare issues that the GAA season brings. Most will ask a 21yr old to play 2 matches per week and penalise any attempt to take a holiday

I would love to see a proposal from a Cuala or Slaughneil on how the season should be structured and what their views are on maximum number of games per player per season

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 987 - 06/03/2022 07:16:43    2404021

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "There is but they don't really make an attempt to address the player welfare issues that the GAA season brings. Most will ask a 21yr old to play 2 matches per week and penalise any attempt to take a holiday

I would love to see a proposal from a Cuala or Slaughneil on how the season should be structured and what their views are on maximum number of games per player per season"
Stopping the county season in July and limiting club championship to a maximum of 16 teams were both changes with that in mind. The thinking being that 2 championships of 16 teams played 4 groups of 4 can take 12 weeks to complete. August, September, October and then Provincial/All Ireland club in November and December roughly. Even at that it's still tight. There are problems in some dual counties like Wexford for instance, where they want to play their championship off over more than 6 weeks each. The GAA though are doing what the can to facilitate a reasonable schedule of games but what more can they do without involving themselves in the autonomy of their county units.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3799 - 06/03/2022 13:29:04    2404056

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Stopping the county season in July and limiting club championship to a maximum of 16 teams were both changes with that in mind. The thinking being that 2 championships of 16 teams played 4 groups of 4 can take 12 weeks to complete. August, September, October and then Provincial/All Ireland club in November and December roughly. Even at that it's still tight. There are problems in some dual counties like Wexford for instance, where they want to play their championship off over more than 6 weeks each. The GAA though are doing what the can to facilitate a reasonable schedule of games but what more can they do without involving themselves in the autonomy of their county units."
There isn't enough time in the year to play off all the competitions, while allowing for dual players neatly within the split season.

With the spit season we are trying to force all county and club games into 6 moths. It really doesn't work. Playing the latter stages of the provincial and All Ireland club championships when the National Leagues have started can allow that season to extend. Likewise playing the All Ireland semi finals and final in August would allow that season to extend.

I'd suggest that if your county team is in the latter stages your club team gets a bye in the provincial championship allowing a little bit more time back to the county. At a local level this would likely mean postponing a single round of fixtures in 4 counties.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 189 - 07/03/2022 11:13:02    2404201

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Replying To brianb:  "There isn't enough time in the year to play off all the competitions, while allowing for dual players neatly within the split season.

With the spit season we are trying to force all county and club games into 6 moths. It really doesn't work. Playing the latter stages of the provincial and All Ireland club championships when the National Leagues have started can allow that season to extend. Likewise playing the All Ireland semi finals and final in August would allow that season to extend.

I'd suggest that if your county team is in the latter stages your club team gets a bye in the provincial championship allowing a little bit more time back to the county. At a local level this would likely mean postponing a single round of fixtures in 4 counties."
There's also this idea being pushed that club championships will become more popular but that won't happen. Intercounty is what draws the casuals in and they make up the bulk of viewers. Same for internationals in soccer and rugby.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 595 - 07/03/2022 16:15:06    2404315

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "There's also this idea being pushed that club championships will become more popular but that won't happen. Intercounty is what draws the casuals in and they make up the bulk of viewers. Same for internationals in soccer and rugby."
It will be interesting to see how that will work out. I'd tend to agree with you. I can't see the club competitions becoming the draw that Intercounty is. We've already seen big crowd at league games this year with more people in Croke Park for Dublin's league games than the All Ireland club finals (despite a "big" Dublin club in the final).

But things can change over time - we could yet see the club game increase further in importance. Who knows one day the club game could even by-pass the intercounty game the same way it by-passed the railway cups.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 189 - 08/03/2022 14:48:11    2404473

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Replying To brianb:  "It will be interesting to see how that will work out. I'd tend to agree with you. I can't see the club competitions becoming the draw that Intercounty is. We've already seen big crowd at league games this year with more people in Croke Park for Dublin's league games than the All Ireland club finals (despite a "big" Dublin club in the final).

But things can change over time - we could yet see the club game increase further in importance. Who knows one day the club game could even by-pass the intercounty game the same way it by-passed the railway cups."
The only way the club game could bypass the intercounty game is by moving away from county boundaries and having big super clubs. Let's say you had Naas, Portlaoise, Tullamore, Ballyboden all playing in a Leinster league. That's a competition you could market. But this would come to the detriment of small clubs and ultimately lead to the sport becoming professional.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 595 - 08/03/2022 16:49:34    2404509

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "The only way the club game could bypass the intercounty game is by moving away from county boundaries and having big super clubs. Let's say you had Naas, Portlaoise, Tullamore, Ballyboden all playing in a Leinster league. That's a competition you could market. But this would come to the detriment of small clubs and ultimately lead to the sport becoming professional."
The split season has created a club code and a county code. The seed has been sown.

Who knows Christmas week in 2050; Letterkenny Lions V Newbridge Knights for the All Ireland. I might see you there . . . if I can get a ticket!

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 189 - 09/03/2022 10:19:28    2404560

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Replying To brianb:  "The split season has created a club code and a county code. The seed has been sown.

Who knows Christmas week in 2050; Letterkenny Lions V Newbridge Knights for the All Ireland. I might see you there . . . if I can get a ticket!"
I don't think that's true. It just allows for a neater, simpler organisation of the fixtures and is the only way to give club players clarity on their fixtures.

The split itself I don't really like.

I'd have had January, February and March for Provincial and All Ireland club, let intercounty have a preseason too during that time.

Have inter-county then run to August bank holiday weekend and let counties then run their championships as they see fit from August on.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3799 - 09/03/2022 16:37:15    2404653

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I don't think that's true. It just allows for a neater, simpler organisation of the fixtures and is the only way to give club players clarity on their fixtures.

The split itself I don't really like.

I'd have had January, February and March for Provincial and All Ireland club, let intercounty have a preseason too during that time.

Have inter-county then run to August bank holiday weekend and let counties then run their championships as they see fit from August on."
I hope you're right and I'd agree that changing the nature of the split would be good for all.

It's still a split season though. I see the need to do something but there are a lot of other solutions that could be more balanced.

It's like the 2023 championship - better than what was there before but not perfect.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 189 - 09/03/2022 18:52:58    2404683

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Replying To brianb:  "I hope you're right and I'd agree that changing the nature of the split would be good for all.

It's still a split season though. I see the need to do something but there are a lot of other solutions that could be more balanced.

It's like the 2023 championship - better than what was there before but not perfect."
Clubs will still be being league without county players while the inter-county season is ongoing.

It just means there isn't the break weeks between county fixtures to allow club championship to be played.

I really think it's very good for all, it's just August is the right time to start club action. Club seasons could have leagues finished by June, have first 2 weeks of July fixtures free to allow players holidays but give them 2/3 weeks then to get ready for Championship starting in August. It's a good quality player centred approach to fixture organisation. As a player I hated Championship in April or May. End of the season running to October week on week off is a great way to have your games come at you.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3799 - 10/03/2022 11:31:27    2404748

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Clubs will still be being league without county players while the inter-county season is ongoing.

It just means there isn't the break weeks between county fixtures to allow club championship to be played.

I really think it's very good for all, it's just August is the right time to start club action. Club seasons could have leagues finished by June, have first 2 weeks of July fixtures free to allow players holidays but give them 2/3 weeks then to get ready for Championship starting in August. It's a good quality player centred approach to fixture organisation. As a player I hated Championship in April or May. End of the season running to October week on week off is a great way to have your games come at you."
Intercounty should be running until August not July.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 595 - 10/03/2022 15:37:28    2404804

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "Intercounty should be running until August not July."
Yeah agree, it's what I stated above and why club championship should start in August. I was just describing that an August start allows for a sensible holiday period for club players.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3799 - 10/03/2022 16:11:28    2404812

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "Intercounty should be running until August not July."
Can intercounty run until August with the club championships being completed in the same calendar year?

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6832 - 10/03/2022 17:50:03    2404828

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Can intercounty run until August with the club championships being completed in the same calendar year?"
It should with proper management and a season structure including dates will set in advance and no changes or delays for non needed reasons like happens now...

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 2729 - 10/03/2022 18:21:54    2404836

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Can intercounty run until August with the club championships being completed in the same calendar year?"
No, they should be completed at the start of the year.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3799 - 10/03/2022 18:36:40    2404838

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Can intercounty run until August with the club championships being completed in the same calendar year?"
Yes it can but not with a split season and looking for a 2 week gap between games. It would need a master fixtures list to be agreed well in advance and strictly adhered to.

With the split season both club and county get half a summer. With a master fixtures schedule defining weekends for club and county there's no reason both can't have a full summer.

Take the Kildare Championship for example - the finalists will play 8 games with the weather disimproving as the weeks roll on. The winners could play potentially 6 more games with less and less clubs involved as the weeks go on.

With the 2023 football format there will be 11 weekends needed to play the championship - again obviously with less and less counties playing as the weeks roll on.

There is a very long tail to both the club and county seasons to play a maximum of 25 championship games with less than (this could be reduced by 2 if you reward successful counties with a bye in the club game).

I don't see why a master schedule couldn't be developed on a week on / week off basis.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 189 - 11/03/2022 12:28:25    2404909

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Replying To brianb:  "Yes it can but not with a split season and looking for a 2 week gap between games. It would need a master fixtures list to be agreed well in advance and strictly adhered to.

With the split season both club and county get half a summer. With a master fixtures schedule defining weekends for club and county there's no reason both can't have a full summer.

Take the Kildare Championship for example - the finalists will play 8 games with the weather disimproving as the weeks roll on. The winners could play potentially 6 more games with less and less clubs involved as the weeks go on.

With the 2023 football format there will be 11 weekends needed to play the championship - again obviously with less and less counties playing as the weeks roll on.

There is a very long tail to both the club and county seasons to play a maximum of 25 championship games with less than (this could be reduced by 2 if you reward successful counties with a bye in the club game).

I don't see why a master schedule couldn't be developed on a week on / week off basis."
I'm a perfect world sure, maybe.

County game is the monster here though and those managers want access to their players in season at all times in season. That would be the stumbling block and until that could be resolved split season is the best alternative available.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3799 - 11/03/2022 16:32:19    2404963

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