National Forum

Upcoming Special Congress

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Replying To sponger:  "No, i would rather see Wicklow play against teams of our own level, as opposed to getting hammered by Dublin.


What is funny about that ?"
Ok, that's fine but then are you happy that Wicklow will be playing in a competition where they can no longer win the All Ireland.

Lower level teams just shouldn't be allowed to advance at a higher level teams expense. It's no good for anyone.

To give everyone a chance there could be some form of early season qualifier but once a team fails to make it then they should only be playing for qualification for the following year.

For competitive sport to be interesting and have any point at all really there has to be an edge to it and that was something proposal B was lacking in massively.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4416 - 23/10/2021 20:56:24    2387058

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Replying To omahant:  "I'd love refreshed Provs, like the hurling round robins.
Should the NFL be used as a Prov Qualifier to weed out the weakest teams ?
How about Ulster top 5, Muns top 3 and Conn top 3 to 3 separate groups of 5 - with Lein top 4 (split into 2 pairs) completing the groups.
Top 2 in Ulster, Muns & Conn to Prov Finals - with higher placed teams from each 'Lein pair' play their Prov Final.
Four Prov Champs to AI KO QFs - best 6 NFL records of other 11 to QF Playoff Rd, along with 2 Tier 2 Finalists."
Enough of your tiers, playoffs, higher placed,splits, separate groups. Back to something that means something , qualifiers and everybody gets two goes, if your not good enough don't take it out on higher placed counties .

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2261 - 23/10/2021 21:00:08    2387059

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Enough of your tiers, playoffs, higher placed,splits, separate groups. Back to something that means something , qualifiers and everybody gets two goes, if your not good enough don't take it out on higher placed counties ."
After Qualifier Round 2, the Final 16 can compete in 4 groups of 4? We can all then move on!

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8582 - 23/10/2021 21:12:08    2387060

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For the first time in years ( well before covid) Ulster teams have a huge advantage as they will know where they stand after their first game in the Ulster championship. They will go far in the qualifiers.

border Gael (Monaghan) - Posts: 906 - 23/10/2021 21:14:31    2387061

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Replying To border Gael:  "For the first time in years ( well before covid) Ulster teams have a huge advantage as they will know where they stand after their first game in the Ulster championship. They will go far in the qualifiers."
True, think what it could have done for Derry last year. Can't wait for this years Ulster championship, then so many good games in the qualifiers. Football wins.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2261 - 23/10/2021 21:42:45    2387064

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Ok, that's fine but then are you happy that Wicklow will be playing in a competition where they can no longer win the All Ireland.

Lower level teams just shouldn't be allowed to advance at a higher level teams expense. It's no good for anyone.

To give everyone a chance there could be some form of early season qualifier but once a team fails to make it then they should only be playing for qualification for the following year.

For competitive sport to be interesting and have any point at all really there has to be an edge to it and that was something proposal B was lacking in massively."
How about 3 tiers, just like the hurling.

1 All of Div 1 gets a crack

2 Everyone is at an equal level more or less

3 There can be promotion and relegation


As for Wicklow not getting a crack at Sam, well we do not play Limerick in the hurling so why should we play Dubli in football ?? Look at our last results against them and Meath, and tell me what was achieved.

sponger (Wicklow) - Posts: 2916 - 23/10/2021 21:47:16    2387065

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Replying To mayotyroneman:  "Well thank God that proposal was shelved..it's basically a good idea but the provincial championships need to mean something. Simple solution..play the provincials..the 4 winners get into the quarter finals or a 12 team championship...then fill up the rest of the spaces with teams ranked according to their league performance..and then have your tier 2 competition..simple solution..Jim McGuiness suggested something similar years ago"
Having the provincial championships linked to the All Ireland currently benefits Dublin Kerry Mayo/ Galway as their routes to QFs are generally not that difficult.

edu (Mayo) - Posts: 92 - 23/10/2021 21:51:14    2387068

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Replying To sponger:  "How about 3 tiers, just like the hurling.

1 All of Div 1 gets a crack

2 Everyone is at an equal level more or less

3 There can be promotion and relegation


As for Wicklow not getting a crack at Sam, well we do not play Limerick in the hurling so why should we play Dubli in football ?? Look at our last results against them and Meath, and tell me what was achieved."
Yeah look I'd be with you on all that.

The powers that be for some reason are wanting to make sure everyone can win Sam.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4416 - 23/10/2021 21:55:13    2387071

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "SF got more 1st preference votes though."
SF had rallies to demand government, same as Trump so I guess they must have won the election.
The reality is SF got less than 25% of Vote, Proposal B today got a majority of votes (over 50%).

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1412 - 23/10/2021 21:55:24    2387072

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We need change - proposal B was better than what we have now

There is a reality to our current championship that people conveniently forget

1. Mayo, Kerry and Dublin couldn't give a monkeys about another provincial title
2. Sligo, Leitrim, Fermanagh, Longford, Antrim, Down, Louth, Laois, Westmeath, Wicklow, Offaly, Wexford, Clare, Tipp and Waterford haven't a hope of winning a provincial next year or anytime soon
3. Roscommon, Meath, Kildare, Offaly and Cork are hopeful (but not confident) that in the next few years they might get lucky and win a provincial title

That's 18 counties whose efforts will be on the league next year (and most years)
There's 5 counties that will focus on the league and hope for a good draw and maybe just maybe pox a provincial title if they are lucky

So in reality there are 9 counties who have something to play for between April and July.

It has to change so that everyone has skin on the game between March and June with the hope of getting lucky and winning something in July/August

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1257 - 24/10/2021 08:15:23    2387073

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Replying To Ban:  "For years we've been hearing that the Provincial Championships/Councils is the elephant in the room. What a great chance to kick the big guy out! Today was a day to liberate the GAA football world by creating a pathway to a significantly better future for both players and supporters.
You can talk all you want about tweaking future proposals but its clear that it will be extremely difficult to break from the Provinces."
And why should we break from the provincial system?..just because Leinster counties can't get their act together..thank goodness the Ulster championship is still intact..simple solution .4 provincial winners get into last 16..then let league placings determine next 12 places..straight knockout from there

mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1821 - 24/10/2021 08:15:25    2387074

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Replying To Greengrass:  "It was a good day at Congress. Whilst Option B didn't get the required 60% of the vote it has served the purpose of stimulating real debate about change. It was crystal clear that there was unanimity in relation to the need for change. It was also clear that the link between the provincial championships and the All Ireland is to be maintained in some form. The hard part starts now. How will they square the circle?"
It's really simple and Jim McGuiness came up with the proposal a few years ago...your 4 provincial winners get into the last 16 and are seeded..then other places are allocated according to league position..with higher league position getting a higher seeding..then a straight knockout with a tier 2 competition in place.

mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1821 - 24/10/2021 08:23:37    2387075

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The provincial championships appear to be an unmovable object. After Qualifier Round 2 there are 16 teams left. The solution appears to be 16 teams at that stage in 4 groups of 4. Give the provincial finalists 2 home games each. Provincial winners can take top seeding. The 2nd, 3rd and 4th seeding can be based on the league. Not many other options are likely to pass congress."
Let's stop talking about groups ..have we learned nothing from the farce that was the Super 8s..straight knockout

mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1821 - 24/10/2021 08:25:53    2387076

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Replying To edu:  "Having the provincial championships linked to the All Ireland currently benefits Dublin Kerry Mayo/ Galway as their routes to QFs are generally not that difficult."
Doesn't have to be that way if the likes of Dublin, Jerry etc end up in a 12 or 16 team knockout...they'll have to fight their way through a proper knockout and if they do fair enough.

mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1821 - 24/10/2021 08:31:13    2387078

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Proposal B just had too many flaws to be passed. Granting the 25th placed team with a place in the All-Ireland series ahead of the 6th, 7th, 8th placed teams doesn't sit right with me. I think counties should be competing in the top 2 divisions to be in the Senior grade. Provincials councils still hold a lot of power but they need to face the music. Most counties rejected the provincial model. I'd be in favour of retaining a provincial link for 5-10 years to ease the transition but they will have to stand on their own eventually. A tiered championship linked to League placings is the right idea but we need to be blunt with the Division 3 and 4 counties and make it clear that they will have to get promoted to Div 2 or win the Tailteann Cup to compete for the Sam Maguire. Linking to League is a format used by a lot of counties for club championships including Tyrone and Down. It would also leave room open for a third tier if necessary. Whammo laid this idea out.

My preference would be to have all Division 1 and 2 sides plus the Tailteann winners in Tier 1 and the rest in Tier 2. The GAA promised NY a place in Tier 2 so one of the tiers will have 17 counties competing. Retaining the provincial link would look like the proposal put out by Jim McGuinness a few years back.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 746 - 24/10/2021 08:42:32    2387083

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "Except 3 counties competing in Div 1 get knocked out but the Division 4 winners get a place in PQF. Hopefully this awful plan fails."
Found this argument interesting, in hurling 4th place in Munster and Leinster don't progress from a 5 team round robin, in 2019 Clare, Waterford and Galway were knocked out in roubd robin while Joe McDonagh finalists Laois ( who beat Dublin) and Westmeath competed in the last 8 knockout stage.

Are some of you the counties who could potentially finish 6th in Div 1 lacking backbone by using this argument.

bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 24/10/2021 08:44:05    2387084

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Make league 1a N&S, 1b N/S, 2a N/S, 2b N/S in Feb- mid March - 8 groups of 4

Knock out provincial cups ( limited to top 4 teams via league performance) played to produce 4 for senior all ireland - mid March to mid April (Easter weekend finals)

Play div 2 semis and finals in April

Top 1in div 1a N/S and 1b N/s also qualify for senior all ireland - 4 teams

Play offs run between winners of div 2 group winners (4 teams) and the 12 provincial teams who don't win prov championship - 8 teams - May bank holiday weekend

Left with 16 senior teams and 16 for tailteann cup

4 groups of 4 in each competition all played at Neutral venues - everyone plays each other once
That's 3 games in month of May with last round on June bank holiday

Top team in each group goes to all ireland semis in both competitions

everyone gets 6 games minimum between Feb and June bank holiday
Counties doing well get 8 - 12 matches over 20 weeks
Counties not doing well are idle from mid March to start of May

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1257 - 24/10/2021 08:46:12    2387085

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Although disappointed myself with the vote yesterday good to see there seems to be a real consensus that change is required. Whatever change is I think it must guarantee a meaningful pool of games for every team deep into the year rather than just January- March. Hopefully this is just the wheels turning quicker rather than seizing up. I think the short term punishment for yesterday's vote is another pedestrian championship in 2022 up to the All ireland semi final, which has become the norm in the last 6-7 years really hope this Tailteann Cup reinvigorates the year and is not just another Tommy Murphy Cup.

bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 24/10/2021 08:56:33    2387086

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Special Congress 2019 approved the Tailteann Cup for Divisions 3 and 4. Divisions 3 and 4 counties making a provincial final will be included in the qualifiers.
The pandemic has prevented the new tournament from taking place so far. The Tailteann Cup has the carrot that the winner will be in the All-Ireland qualifiers in the following year.
We are where we are after Special Congress 2021. The Tailteann Cup will have to be allowed the opportunity to become established. If it can become established, it might provide the foundation for agreement on a group stage for the All-Ireland Final 16.
I think they'll eventually wind up with 2 lower tier competitions. 16 teams to play-off to join the 8 provincial finalists in the Final 16. The 8 teams excluded from the playoffs could contest the Tailteann Cup. The 8 losers of the playoffs could contest a second Tier 2 Championship. The winner of both Tier 2 championships could be guaranteed a playoff spot and home advantage in the following year.
The Final 16 can be 4 groups of 4. The 2 second tier championships can be 2 groups of 4 each. Both second tier finals could be played before each All-Ireland semi-finals=

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8582 - 24/10/2021 09:30:12    2387091

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Will be difficult to change mindset and not making this point due to yesterday's vote but the whole scenario around Congress and transparency of vote badly needs to change.

bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 24/10/2021 09:36:27    2387092

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