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Keep it simple, play league, scrap provincials, waste of time, have 2 good champions league style championships based on the national league with winner of B championship guarenteed A status following year! Not rocket science. Im pretty sure Offaly, Leitrim or Fermanagh or Waterford Fans would love a good championship run with a fair chance of silverware!! blackpuddin (Leitrim) - Posts: 89 - 06/10/2021 20:40:09 2384661 Link 0 |
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A Championship trophy and maybe league double you call meaningless, Jesus Antrim have come on.
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2250 - 07/10/2021 09:48:47 2384680 Link 2 |
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I don't know, I'd always just think that the more important aspect of lower level competitions is to progress to the next level rather than actually the trophy itself. I could definitely understand a team being less motivated to give the championship a hard push from the outset if they've already secured their senior spot the next year. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4416 - 07/10/2021 11:23:16 2384706 Link 3 |
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There will be more than just Antrim competing in this second tier. Would an already promoted Cork (who have been around this sort of level in recent years) really care about the second tier championship. This is what I always find about those from stronger counties, they just don't think through what the second tier would look like because they won't have to worry about being down there. The more the strongest teams in a competition don't care about it, the less it actually has value for anyone. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4416 - 07/10/2021 11:27:05 2384708 Link 3 |
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If 3 teams from div 2 are included the main would be to try and finish 3rd so that you qualify every year without going up being relegated and not qualifying until the following year
Bernardo (Monaghan) - Posts: 607 - 07/10/2021 11:46:34 2384712 Link 1 |
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Yeah that's one of the wonderful inconsistencies in the format. I also think there's an potential incentive to aim for relegation built into Division 3 as well. Take the this years league into consideration. Wicklow beat Cavan in the relegation playoff game. If we switch to proposal B are Cavan better off for 2022 in Division 4 or Division 3? Obviously a team like Cavan would have started the year aiming for promotion but once they had a bad start - they may be incentivised to drop to Division 4 for an easier route into the All Ireland the following year. I recon they'd fancy their chances against the 5th Place Division 1 team (a team like Armagh or Monaghan). Basically you might as well yo-yo between Division 3 & 4 as 1 & 2 to get a knock out game. brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 401 - 07/10/2021 12:19:13 2384720 Link 0 |
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What do ye want the GAA to do? Take ye by the hand and lead you to Sam. Crying about not enough meaningful matches and then cry again about playing the big teams. Win Div 4, win B championship and build on it. My own club team play Div 2, doesn't mean we should get playing in the Div 1 O'Neill cup. We're in Div2 for a reason and that is we're not good enough.
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2250 - 07/10/2021 13:11:33 2384734 Link 2 |
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Yeah, I reckon that's one of the biggest weaknesses of the proposal. If you're a sort of yo-yo team that might normally finish around the top half of Div. 2 or the bottom half of Div. 1, you'd be better off staying in Div. 2 and aiming for third spot there every year. Same with what that other poster said about Divisions 3 & 4. If you're unlikely to ever be good enough to reach the top spots of Div. 2, your only way of making it into the championship proper is to finish on top of either Div. 3 or 4. Easier to do that if you're in Div. 4 in the first place, so not exactly an incentive to go all-out avoid relegation if you're near the bottom of Div. 3. Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2724 - 07/10/2021 14:21:41 2384756 Link 0 |
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Ya same as that, I used to enjoy the qualifiers, I remember Derry and Clare giving Mayo good games in years gone by we should have been bate by West Meath and Sligo during our time in it, the game every week really pushed teams hard but if you survived you were in a great place as a team as we found out in 09 and yer selves 05.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 07/10/2021 14:31:13 2384760 Link 2 |
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I must say I think the B proposal can only improve the Championship all round. But it needs to give an incentive to every team to move up the divisions. I'd suggest that the Championship places are given to the top 4,3,2 and 1 down through the divisions. As it is, it certainly smacks of divisions 3 and 4 just being an afterthought with the same prize on offer for both. carlovian (Carlow) - Posts: 16 - 07/10/2021 15:14:53 2384765 Link 1 |
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Saturday evening, high stool, pint and match about to start, didn't matter who was playing.
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2250 - 07/10/2021 15:26:22 2384768 Link 2 |
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Going by some proposals does it mean that a team can win All Ireland one year and not qualify the next depending on the away games in league. Say Tyrone next year have to go to Tralee, Dublin, Ballybofey and Castlebar.
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2250 - 07/10/2021 15:38:13 2384769 Link 1 |
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I want a system that makes sense and gives teams a decent number of games in the main competition. I'm thoroughly against hand holding, a weaker team shouldn't be jettisoned up to All Ireland playoffs because they've beaten other teams. I'm just criticising your system because the promotion system you want to employ is badly thought through. There's been plenty of good suggestions. The very simple season I like would be: Straight knockout provincials. If you win your provincials go to the All Ireland tier 1. Tier 1: 2 groups of 8 Tier 2: 2 groups of 8. Have promotion from tier 2 based on performance. Either just champions or both finalists or something. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4416 - 07/10/2021 15:44:24 2384772 Link 1 |
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But then you'd just have even more of the same problem. A county would be better off finishing 3rd or 4th in Division 2 than they would be by finishing 5th in Division 1. And so on down through the divisions. Carlow or Wexford, for example, would be better off finishing 4th in Division 4 than they would by finishing 5th or 6th in Division 3. No real incentive to move up there at all. The biggest incentive to move up divisions would be if only Divisions 1 and 2 teams go through to Sam Maguire Cup, and others go into Tailteann Cup. But there's outright hostility to that idea, to say the least...despite the fact that even under Proposal B, 14 out of 16 Division 3 and 4 teams wouldn't go through to Sam Maguire anyway. Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2724 - 07/10/2021 15:49:24 2384773 Link 0 |
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Exactly :-) couldn't bate it.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 07/10/2021 16:18:47 2384779 Link 0 |
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Precisely, add in 3 going down out of Division 2 with 2 going up out of Div 3 plus winners of B championship. Good incentive for both Div 3 and 4.
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2250 - 07/10/2021 16:47:14 2384789 Link 1 |
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You're right. Every county wants a chance at the Sam Maguire (at lease notionally) at the start of the year. This can be done by allowing the provincial winners into the knockout stages. Letting a Division 3 & 4 team in at the expense of the 6th team in Division 1 is a mistake. Perhaps if you had the top 4 in Division 1 as quarter finalists with the bottom 4 playing off against the top 2 in Division 2 & the top teams in Division 3 & 4 it might make a little bit sense but it would still be a bad solution to allowing every team have a chance at Sam Maguire compared to guaranteed spots for provincial champions. brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 401 - 07/10/2021 16:58:38 2384791 Link 1 |
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There are only two certaintees in life we are all at some stage going to die and the gaa special congress will make a complete balls of restructuring the gaa championship. breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 483 - 07/10/2021 17:36:06 2384798 Link 0 |
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I think they just have to abandon 4 divisions. It works for the league because it's a secondary competition and it's more about but for the main championship the field has to be wider. Allowing even division 2 teams into the playoffs removes one of the key features of the league where there's a penalty for being relegated. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4416 - 07/10/2021 18:15:16 2384805 Link 0 |
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Only if they lose all those away matches :)
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2724 - 07/10/2021 19:04:06 2384819 Link 0 |