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If I'm not mistaken there's a very talented young soccer player who has declined a call up to the Irish senior team as he is undecided as to whether or not he wants to represent us, or his parents country. (nothing against him btw, we've used the granny rule often enough ourselves).
If some of the new Irish don't even wish to play for Ireland in their given sport it demonstrates the scale of the challenge in getting them to commit to indigenous games.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1717 - 28/08/2021 16:12:13
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Replying To Galway9801: "Would that work both ways though? Let's say for example that there are "new Irish" families who don't want to get involved in irish culture, preferring instead to get their kids involved in soccer or cricket, would that be racism too yeah?" Bloodyban probably considers the War of Independence to have been racist.
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2577 - 28/08/2021 18:31:55
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Replying To BarneyGrant: "Bloodyban probably considers the War of Independence to have been racist." And then when a woman of colour gives a speech at Yale talking of how she fantasises about killing white people he'd probably try to downplay it.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1717 - 28/08/2021 20:58:59
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Replying To Galway9801: "Would that work both ways though? Let's say for example that there are "new Irish" families who don't want to get involved in irish culture, preferring instead to get their kids involved in soccer or cricket, would that be racism too yeah?" Of course not. Most of my friends play rugby and rugby only. A culture shouldn't need to keep chasing after people to keep it going..something the Irish language seems to be always doing. I'm interested in making sure hurling is available to all and is promoted properly.
bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 28/08/2021 21:44:22
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Replying To Galway9801: "And then when a woman of colour gives a speech at Yale talking of how she fantasises about killing white people he'd probably try to downplay it." I'd be the opposite really. I'm a Conservative and fairly right wing. I'm anti woke and believe in equal opportunities for all but not equal outcomes. So your totally wrong and you shouldn't assume you know anything about me personally. It's totally off topic and it's unfair of the moderator to allow half these comments about me
bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 28/08/2021 21:47:35
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Replying To bloodyban: "I'd be the opposite really. I'm a Conservative and fairly right wing. I'm anti woke and believe in equal opportunities for all but not equal outcomes. So your totally wrong and you shouldn't assume you know anything about me personally. It's totally off topic and it's unfair of the moderator to allow half these comments about me" Well that's fair enough, tbh I was about to call it in this thread as I agree that things can get a bit edgy on certain topics and it puts the mods in a difficult spot.
It takes away from the topic at hand also.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1717 - 28/08/2021 22:11:53
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Replying To bloodyban: "Yeah you're probably right. The schools have a big role to play but Cork and Waterford City have way bigger Hurling participation than Limerick. Rugby and soccer is very well organised in Limerick and they've great facilities in the likes Of Garryowen, Shannon, fairview ect. But if they can't get under 10s out hurling now then it's a shame. The current success won't be sustainable if the city isn't tapped. Cork are a whole different kettle of fish . What they have underage now is sustainable forever more. They will hoover up underage now.
It ll be interesting to see what the next 10 years hold. We have lots of women's games on TV and presenters ect...(still can't get rid of Marty) but will we have diversity on our teams. We really are miles behind the UK but we ll probably make all the same mistakes they did in the 60s and 70s. And let's get real..lots of Irish people don't want Eastern Europeans and others playing our games. There's alot of casual racism there." How many is 'lots' of Irish people who don't want Eastern Europeans playing GAA? Is it numerically a lot or proportionally a lot? Do you think this is one of the main reasons there aren't more intercounty players of Eastern European background?
There are ignorant people in every country in the world. Thankfully they tend to be the people not involved in their communities and not involved in training kids in sports.
WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2045 - 28/08/2021 22:19:20
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Replying To Breezy: "People tend to play the same sport they played in their home country or that is popular in their country. Also most immigrant families are based in the cities where soccer is popular and easily accessible.
It's the same everywhere and it's not a GAA specific thing or is their much the GAA can do about it" You are right,I play a game called Petanque (French Boules) its predominantly French and Mauritians that dominate the game here in Ireland,its the game they grew up playing and most of us Irish only started playing near pension age,its a great game though and a lot of fun.
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 28/08/2021 23:48:40
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We got very few 'new' Irish hurling and for that matter playing rugby or Gaelic football. Are they all playing soccer? Cork had a very good polish wing back on the minors in Timmy Wilk but I know there's very few playing hurling or rugby in Limerick and Limerick has a massive Polish population. Suppose we don't have a great record reaching out to other communities.. I hurled with one irish Protestant in my whole career ...numero uno!
bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1523 - 27/08/2021 12:11:54 To be fair there is more and more new irish playing rugby. look at munster and the other provincial underage interpro squads from the games right now. there is a few across those squads and plenty more across the clubs.
takes time for them to show at higher levels though unless you have clubs and development officers working very hardto keep them in the clubs/the sport.
Funny Gleebo makes a point that dawned on me this afternoon. Far from the "New Irish", where are the "New Counties". We haven't had a new All-Ireland winner since 1981 and have never looked less like having a new one.
The game is thriving in the dominant counties, but are we doing enough to spread its wings?
Do we provide a championship where even Kildare or Carlow can realistically aim for the stars? Even Offaly coming back, in 2-3 years time to accommodate all the developing counties it'd be a 7-8 team Leinster Championship which simply will not work....because all it'll take is for 1 of the traditional counties to be relegated for the clamour to start about extending it.
The provincial system is strangling the game and will continue to do so unfortunately.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1312 - 27/08/2021 16:42:28 Provincial system isnt strangling the game at all and changing that wont do anything else. What do you change to help likes of Kildare, Carlow??
I'm not doubting for one minute that Ulster GAA tries to reach out to protestants, but it's hardly working is it?
It's not part of their culture, so you can't force them to like it, nor dilute our own to get them to!
Which is the point with regards to "new Irish" (none of whom use that ridiculous term in my experience.)
No African or eastern or central European country would blithely accept that a third or more of their population will be non nationals in 20/30 years. Indeed same people who think this is great thing here would be up in arms if a third of Nigeria's population was to become white European by 2050.
This is not theoretical either. Look at the big cities across the Irish sea or in France, Italy, Belgium, Germany. By all means accept working people from cultures who will accommodate themselves, but it has to be controlled and in our interests not those of overseas companies and property funds.
I'd safely say, GAA will be utterly marginal in Irish cities and large towns within a generation. As will language, music and other parts of our culture.
If people think that's a good thing, fine. I won't be around to see it, thankfully.
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 192 - 28/08/2021 11:35:16what term would you use instead of new iriish? and what are you trying to say about population in 20/30 years time... whats wrong with population being more integrated and different?
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3511 - 29/08/2021 00:21:42
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Replying To arock: "Cricket clubs especially in Dublin, have a huge "New Irish" presence, its great to see them in the parks. Majority would play soccer and a lot of Eastern Europeans gravitate to Basketball. I guess its down to what your parents are most familar with. Huge areas of Dublin like Adamstown, Tyrellstown, Charlestown to name a few have no GAA clubs so unless someone is going to invest in these areas they will be denied to GAA and indeed lots of sports." Not that I necessarily disagree with your post but just to add that Tyrellstown does have a GAA club.
If you live in Adamstown you're living closer to Lucan Sarsfields GAA Club than 99% of the population of Lucan iirc.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13717 - 29/08/2021 08:11:26
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Replying To KillingFields: "We got very few 'new' Irish hurling and for that matter playing rugby or Gaelic football. Are they all playing soccer? Cork had a very good polish wing back on the minors in Timmy Wilk but I know there's very few playing hurling or rugby in Limerick and Limerick has a massive Polish population. Suppose we don't have a great record reaching out to other communities.. I hurled with one irish Protestant in my whole career ...numero uno!
bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1523 - 27/08/2021 12:11:54 To be fair there is more and more new irish playing rugby. look at munster and the other provincial underage interpro squads from the games right now. there is a few across those squads and plenty more across the clubs.
takes time for them to show at higher levels though unless you have clubs and development officers working very hardto keep them in the clubs/the sport.
Funny Gleebo makes a point that dawned on me this afternoon. Far from the "New Irish", where are the "New Counties". We haven't had a new All-Ireland winner since 1981 and have never looked less like having a new one.
The game is thriving in the dominant counties, but are we doing enough to spread its wings?
Do we provide a championship where even Kildare or Carlow can realistically aim for the stars? Even Offaly coming back, in 2-3 years time to accommodate all the developing counties it'd be a 7-8 team Leinster Championship which simply will not work....because all it'll take is for 1 of the traditional counties to be relegated for the clamour to start about extending it.
The provincial system is strangling the game and will continue to do so unfortunately.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1312 - 27/08/2021 16:42:28 Provincial system isnt strangling the game at all and changing that wont do anything else. What do you change to help likes of Kildare, Carlow??
I'm not doubting for one minute that Ulster GAA tries to reach out to protestants, but it's hardly working is it?
It's not part of their culture, so you can't force them to like it, nor dilute our own to get them to!
Which is the point with regards to "new Irish" (none of whom use that ridiculous term in my experience.)
No African or eastern or central European country would blithely accept that a third or more of their population will be non nationals in 20/30 years. Indeed same people who think this is great thing here would be up in arms if a third of Nigeria's population was to become white European by 2050.
This is not theoretical either. Look at the big cities across the Irish sea or in France, Italy, Belgium, Germany. By all means accept working people from cultures who will accommodate themselves, but it has to be controlled and in our interests not those of overseas companies and property funds.
I'd safely say, GAA will be utterly marginal in Irish cities and large towns within a generation. As will language, music and other parts of our culture.
If people think that's a good thing, fine. I won't be around to see it, thankfully.
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 192 - 28/08/2021 11:35:16what term would you use instead of new iriish? and what are you trying to say about population in 20/30 years time... whats wrong with population being more integrated and different?" Two things:
1) I said i know of no person living here who was born overseas who calls themselves "New Irish" They call themselves Polish, English, Danish, Tanzanian, and so on. It is a ludicrous phrase. Is Shane MacGowan "New English"? Try it sometime on the Holloway Road :-)
2) There is nothing wrong with sustainable migration. Where people come to work, not to be lifelong welfare dependents. And where their culture and values complement ours.
Heading towards 30%+ nationally, concentrated in Dublin and other large urban areas within next 30 years is neither sustainable nor conducive to integration. Visit parts of Dublin and see for yourself. Or for a longer term perspective on what is coming down the road, saunter around St. Denis in Paris some evening. (Actually, a brisk jog or a fast moving vehicle would be advisable...)
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2577 - 29/08/2021 10:12:52
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Replying To KillingFields: "We got very few 'new' Irish hurling and for that matter playing rugby or Gaelic football. Are they all playing soccer? Cork had a very good polish wing back on the minors in Timmy Wilk but I know there's very few playing hurling or rugby in Limerick and Limerick has a massive Polish population. Suppose we don't have a great record reaching out to other communities.. I hurled with one irish Protestant in my whole career ...numero uno!
bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1523 - 27/08/2021 12:11:54 To be fair there is more and more new irish playing rugby. look at munster and the other provincial underage interpro squads from the games right now. there is a few across those squads and plenty more across the clubs.
takes time for them to show at higher levels though unless you have clubs and development officers working very hardto keep them in the clubs/the sport.
Funny Gleebo makes a point that dawned on me this afternoon. Far from the "New Irish", where are the "New Counties". We haven't had a new All-Ireland winner since 1981 and have never looked less like having a new one.
The game is thriving in the dominant counties, but are we doing enough to spread its wings?
Do we provide a championship where even Kildare or Carlow can realistically aim for the stars? Even Offaly coming back, in 2-3 years time to accommodate all the developing counties it'd be a 7-8 team Leinster Championship which simply will not work....because all it'll take is for 1 of the traditional counties to be relegated for the clamour to start about extending it.
The provincial system is strangling the game and will continue to do so unfortunately.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1312 - 27/08/2021 16:42:28 Provincial system isnt strangling the game at all and changing that wont do anything else. What do you change to help likes of Kildare, Carlow??
I'm not doubting for one minute that Ulster GAA tries to reach out to protestants, but it's hardly working is it?
It's not part of their culture, so you can't force them to like it, nor dilute our own to get them to!
Which is the point with regards to "new Irish" (none of whom use that ridiculous term in my experience.)
No African or eastern or central European country would blithely accept that a third or more of their population will be non nationals in 20/30 years. Indeed same people who think this is great thing here would be up in arms if a third of Nigeria's population was to become white European by 2050.
This is not theoretical either. Look at the big cities across the Irish sea or in France, Italy, Belgium, Germany. By all means accept working people from cultures who will accommodate themselves, but it has to be controlled and in our interests not those of overseas companies and property funds.
I'd safely say, GAA will be utterly marginal in Irish cities and large towns within a generation. As will language, music and other parts of our culture.
If people think that's a good thing, fine. I won't be around to see it, thankfully.
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 192 - 28/08/2021 11:35:16what term would you use instead of new iriish? and what are you trying to say about population in 20/30 years time... whats wrong with population being more integrated and different?" In fairness killingfields while our population is diverse its not very integrated, not here in Galway anyways, walk down shop street any afternoon and while you'll see many different ethnicities, they'll generally be congregating together and there won't be anywhere near the level of mixing that you'd want to see.
Even looking at secondary school kids, where the schools are mixed race and the kids were all born and raised here you'd think it wouldn't be an issue but it's common to see black kids hanging out with other black kids and vice versa (although it's worse with boys than it is with girls).
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1717 - 29/08/2021 10:30:17
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Two things:
1) I said i know of no person living here who was born overseas who calls themselves "New Irish" They call themselves Polish, English, Danish, Tanzanian, and so on. It is a ludicrous phrase. Is Shane MacGowan "New English"? Try it sometime on the Holloway Road :-)
2) There is nothing wrong with sustainable migration. Where people come to work, not to be lifelong welfare dependents. And where their culture and values complement ours.
Heading towards 30%+ nationally, concentrated in Dublin and other large urban areas within next 30 years is neither sustainable nor conducive to integration. Visit parts of Dublin and see for yourself. Or for a longer term perspective on what is coming down the road, saunter around St. Denis in Paris some evening. (Actually, a brisk jog or a fast moving vehicle would be advisable...)
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 203 - 29/08/2021 10:12:52 you are focusing too much on a phrase. they may not identify as new irish but they are. they will likely call themselves polish or polish irish just like you see so many in america identify as irish american, polish american, mexican american
30+ is not at all a problem. comparing things to stade denis in paris is completely wrong as we havent allowed anything near like that happen and dont look like doing it.
care to show how 30% isnt systainable or good for integration?
In fairness killingfields while our population is diverse its not very integrated, not here in Galway anyways, walk down shop street any afternoon and while you'll see many different ethnicities, they'll generally be congregating together and there won't be anywhere near the level of mixing that you'd want to see.
Even looking at secondary school kids, where the schools are mixed race and the kids were all born and raised here you'd think it wouldn't be an issue but it's common to see black kids hanging out with other black kids and vice versa (although it's worse with boys than it is with girls).
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 800 - 29/08/2021 10:30:17not really true based on my work with schools and school aged children....
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3511 - 29/08/2021 21:16:26
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Replying To KillingFields: "Two things:
1) I said i know of no person living here who was born overseas who calls themselves "New Irish" They call themselves Polish, English, Danish, Tanzanian, and so on. It is a ludicrous phrase. Is Shane MacGowan "New English"? Try it sometime on the Holloway Road :-)
2) There is nothing wrong with sustainable migration. Where people come to work, not to be lifelong welfare dependents. And where their culture and values complement ours.
Heading towards 30%+ nationally, concentrated in Dublin and other large urban areas within next 30 years is neither sustainable nor conducive to integration. Visit parts of Dublin and see for yourself. Or for a longer term perspective on what is coming down the road, saunter around St. Denis in Paris some evening. (Actually, a brisk jog or a fast moving vehicle would be advisable...)
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 203 - 29/08/2021 10:12:52 you are focusing too much on a phrase. they may not identify as new irish but they are. they will likely call themselves polish or polish irish just like you see so many in america identify as irish american, polish american, mexican american
30+ is not at all a problem. comparing things to stade denis in paris is completely wrong as we havent allowed anything near like that happen and dont look like doing it.
care to show how 30% isnt systainable or good for integration?
In fairness killingfields while our population is diverse its not very integrated, not here in Galway anyways, walk down shop street any afternoon and while you'll see many different ethnicities, they'll generally be congregating together and there won't be anywhere near the level of mixing that you'd want to see.
Even looking at secondary school kids, where the schools are mixed race and the kids were all born and raised here you'd think it wouldn't be an issue but it's common to see black kids hanging out with other black kids and vice versa (although it's worse with boys than it is with girls).
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 800 - 29/08/2021 10:30:17not really true based on my work with schools and school aged children...." I did my shopping this evening in the lidl on doughiska, I saw several different ethnic groups of all ages and not one of them of were socialising with anyone outside their own community.
I'm not sure what your work in schools is but people in schools /sports clubs /workplaces have no choice but to mix, the option is removed from them.
I went to school in St Michaels primary back in the early 90s where travellers mixed with settled kids and it looked great but once the school bell rang we went our separate ways and it did nothing to improve relations in the intervening years.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1717 - 29/08/2021 21:48:41
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When I said that you see white kids hanging around with white kids and vice versa I meant at break time, or after school on the way home
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1717 - 29/08/2021 21:52:29
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Replying To MesAmis: "Not that I necessarily disagree with your post but just to add that Tyrellstown does have a GAA club.
If you live in Adamstown you're living closer to Lucan Sarsfields GAA Club than 99% of the population of Lucan iirc." One club amongst 15k, 20k? The catchment area for Lucan is probably close to 100k. I just cannot see how the GAA can tap into this demograph at all. It probably applies across south Dublin as well which leaves us with super clubs. I would prefer to see lots of clubs right across tgese new areas. But the money is just not there.
arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4897 - 30/08/2021 10:15:40
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Replying To arock: "One club amongst 15k, 20k? The catchment area for Lucan is probably close to 100k. I just cannot see how the GAA can tap into this demograph at all. It probably applies across south Dublin as well which leaves us with super clubs. I would prefer to see lots of clubs right across tgese new areas. But the money is just not there." Afaik there are 3 clubs serving Lucan at the moment. Sarsfields, as well as Na Gaeil Óga and Westmanstown Gaels. I'd say 100k is an overestimate but I still agree with your point overall. The latter two are quite small though I'd imagine in comparison to Sarsfields.
West Dublin, as well as parts of South Dublin needs more clubs definitely.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13717 - 30/08/2021 10:37:16
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Replying To Stmunnsriver: "was waiting for the racism to brake out, there we go" Perhaps deal with actual points than post incoherent slurs?
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2577 - 30/08/2021 10:45:31
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Replying To bloodyban: "To be honest the cultural aspect of it wouldn't be the forefront of my thinking. I'm a hurling and sports fan. I'm not a big supporter of the GAA as I think theyve done a terrible job promoting and managing hurling. And the Irish language is done to death. Culturally we have enough without the Irish language. Hiberno Irish is a fantastic vernacular.
The Ulster GAA certainly haven't done enough to reach out to the Unionists, certainly not. And they've named clubs after convicted terrorists. But its the GAA HQ in Dublin that should have stopped that years ago. There's one mixed Club started in East Belfast and that was a grassroots thing . Until the GAA go into somewhere like Lisburn or a Portadown and say ..here's a sporting club..There'll be no national anthem before games, you don't have to promote Irish and the club colours can be Rangers if ye want..Just promote the game. Until that happens then we are going nowhere with the Unionists..the Cultural aspect of the GAA will always be seen as a subsuming threat." Just want to return to this absolute blast of a comment.
We have enough without the Irish language? The Irish language is the core component of our identity - our placenames, surnames, etc all come from it. Language is the cornerstone of national identity and it must be protected.
Hiberno Irish - this isn't a thing, I assume you mean Hiberno English, which is barely a dialect and is mostly based from Gaeilge syntax anyway.
Ulster GAA don't name clubs. If you have an issue with Kevin Lynch's, then surely you can't be too happy with Austin Stacks or Seán Treacy's? Sure didn't Treacy and Dan Breen kill innocent policemen without orders before the war had started?
You raise valid points about dropping symbolism to encourage people of different viewpoints to feel included, but please spare us the disregard for our own culture, the patronising nonsense about GAA clubs in Ulster, etc.
DL_Man (Donegal) - Posts: 145 - 30/08/2021 18:12:11
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Replying To DL_Man: "Just want to return to this absolute blast of a comment.
We have enough without the Irish language? The Irish language is the core component of our identity - our placenames, surnames, etc all come from it. Language is the cornerstone of national identity and it must be protected.
Hiberno Irish - this isn't a thing, I assume you mean Hiberno English, which is barely a dialect and is mostly based from Gaeilge syntax anyway.
Ulster GAA don't name clubs. If you have an issue with Kevin Lynch's, then surely you can't be too happy with Austin Stacks or Seán Treacy's? Sure didn't Treacy and Dan Breen kill innocent policemen without orders before the war had started?
You raise valid points about dropping symbolism to encourage people of different viewpoints to feel included, but please spare us the disregard for our own culture, the patronising nonsense about GAA clubs in Ulster, etc." You are dead right. What is wrong with bilingualism, many European countries are bilingual. In a new global world more and more Irish people are emigrating to countries where English is not the first language of the local people. It is an established fact that those who can speak two languages regularly are able to pick up other languages easier.
As far as this Hiberno English/Irish thing goes, it is a load of nonsense. We speak English like every other English place place that has a dialect of its own. What is it anyway, only badly spoken English. If you are speaking English, at least pay it the compliment of speaking it properly. Some people seem to think that because they throw in a few begobs and begorras laced with with an occasional 'get up the yard and the smell hay' that they speaking in some thing uniquely Irish fashion and thus of great cultural significance. I could disagree more.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4331 - 31/08/2021 09:29:40
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