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Replying To bulmccabe: "of course tyrone done nothing since 2008 apart from 1 semi under harte, he was allowed to stay because of what he did but most supporters recognised his tenure should have ended as the players either just didnt perform or his ideas were dated, then again as i stated each time mayo have got to a final they bottled itwhich is there for all to see, you cant argue with the facts regardless of what tyrone did or didnt do and yes kerry are unproven but still look too strong" Tyrone were in the final in 2018……..under Harte, same outcome as Mayo in the final.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 18/08/2021 11:32:24
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Replying To bulmccabe: "of course tyrone done nothing since 2008 apart from 1 semi under harte, he was allowed to stay because of what he did but most supporters recognised his tenure should have ended as the players either just didnt perform or his ideas were dated, then again as i stated each time mayo have got to a final they bottled itwhich is there for all to see, you cant argue with the facts regardless of what tyrone did or didnt do and yes kerry are unproven but still look too strong" We're on a GAA fans forum. No better place to find reasons why each of the three teams will win this All Ireland. Thankfully the teams and coaches are positive animals. When we say how Kerry looked class dismantling Tyrone in their backyard in the league Brian Dooher might telling his men about the hurt that day, that on Saturday week they'll put the pride in the Red Hand jersey, the best team in Ulster. He mightn't say anything like that but they'll be relishing the chance to beat Kerry in Croke Park. They've identified Kerry's potential strengths and weaknesss, probably daily Zoom calls to work out a plan and will a small window for squad collective training to finetune. Not ready yet but will be bouncing for matchday.
Past performance can be a good indicator, but it's no guarantee of future results.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7359 - 18/08/2021 12:00:03
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Replying To bulmccabe: "of course tyrone done nothing since 2008 apart from 1 semi under harte, he was allowed to stay because of what he did but most supporters recognised his tenure should have ended as the players either just didnt perform or his ideas were dated, then again as i stated each time mayo have got to a final they bottled itwhich is there for all to see, you cant argue with the facts regardless of what tyrone did or didnt do and yes kerry are unproven but still look too strong" Just for my own knowledge, I have a query or two on the facts you mention.
Can "bottling it" be applied to any loss in an All Ireland final that can't be explained by having a poor manager?
Would it be fair to say Donegal "bottled it" in 2014 or Kerry in 2019?
Or is "bottling it" specific to Mayo losing an All Ireland final regardless of the opposition or the circumstances of the game?
Did Mayo "bottle it" in the drawn finals of 1996 of 2016 or is the phenomenon exclusive to losing in the final?
Had Mayo not "bottled it" is there any chance we still would have lost to a stronger team?
Was there a consistent level of "botting it" from 1989 to 2020 or did some Mayo teams manage to "bottle it" less than others?
I appreciate there a few questions there and as I'm new these may have before answered before, but if you could get me when you have a chance that would be great.
Immer (Mayo) - Posts: 31 - 18/08/2021 12:19:37
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Replying To oneoff: "He's still trying to figure out what one he hurt..." Stupid post . cop yourself on
superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 18/08/2021 12:25:57
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Replying To superbluedub: "Stupid post . cop yourself on" On the day he didn't seem to be too sure....
oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 18/08/2021 12:47:21
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Replying To Lockjaw: "Ha ha this is true. But all joking aside, accidents do happen on the pitch, players will get injured, it's par for the course. But concussions and broken jaws noone wants to see." Where was Cairian Whelan on Sunday night, was he afraid to go on Sunday Game and make a call on some of the incidents?
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2016 - 18/08/2021 12:51:28
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Replying To roundball: " Replying To Sindar: "No two aggressive tackles are the same so interpretation is always required. As in soccer, rugby etc., GAA referees review and discuss as many incidents as possible so that some level of standardisation can be achieved but it's never going to be perfect.
In GAA the result of an aggressive foul is not a factor in determining the disciplinary action (I think it is in rugby from what I have seen). e.g. a player could be pushed to the ground and land awkwardly dislocating a shoulder. Is that a red card? No. On the opposite side of that, a player could take a swing at an opponents head fully intending to do damage but he misses. GAA rules state that is a red card because it's all about intent.
Other posters and some pundits mentioned "duty of care", which is something that you seem to be alluding to. You won't find "duty of care" mentioned in our playing rules (with the exception of a legal liability clause which is not relevant here). There is a rule about inflicting injury recklessly (red card) which could certainly be considered in this instance but they are not the same thing imo. It's often used in rugby (I'm just a watcher of the game only) when a player goes up for a high ball and is taken out such as in a lineout or garryowen. The player tackling but who does not win the ball has a responsibility to ensure his opponent lands safely. That's duty of care and it doesn't exist in GAA." Sindar let me ask the question an other way- Do you think it is possible in Gaelic Football or Hurling for a player to break an opponent's jaw and/or inflict concussion whilst trying to make a deliberate tackle (which John Small undoubtedly was) without breaking the rue regarding recklessly endangering an opponent? Cos I cannot see how that is possible? You mentioned shoulder injury- I think that's completely different. If John Small had made contact with Eoghan McLaughlin square on with that force he may well have dislocated his shoulder/his AC joint/fractured his collarbone. I have treated players who have suffered these injuries in legitimate tackles and I suffered one myself as a player and to be honest I'm fine with this as these are not potentially life changing injuries. Head injuries, however, are potentially life changing, and for that reason most contact sports do not allow deliberate contact to an opponent's head. So how can one of the top referees in the country see that Eoghan McLaughlin has been knocked out and being placed on a spinal board and come to the conclusion that it could have been the result of a fair tackle? Does he simply not have enough evidence to send off John Small? Does he need video review to confirm it? Do referees need more education on this particular subject? Do we need to tighten the rules? I'm genuinely curious as to what your thoughts are. Like Mayo v Dublin is one of the marquee fixtures in the GAA calendar and on Saturday night two Mayo players left the field with head injuries after being "tackled" with force to the head by an opponent and the net sanction for both incidents was one yellow card. That is not a good look for the sport. I'm all for having physical contact and collisions in the sport. Unfortunately, injuries, including concussion will continue to happen during incidental collisions- we just can't eliminate that risk entirely. But we can do something about allowing dangerous tackles and I find it very disappointing that there is even a debate as to whether or not a challenge that breaks a players jaw is a red card or not."
I reffed a game a few years ago and a defender had just bent down to pick up a ball from the ground whilst also moving out of defence. As he was coming up and moving forward an opponent moved towards him with very little momentum and the arms spread out as is allowed but his chest caught the defender's head as it was coming up. It was a foul because of the illegal contact but nothing more. However, the defending player suffered a spinal injury and was immobilsed for at least 20 minutes on the pitch. I didn't issue a red card (or yellow) even though it was a foul, there was no intent and it was not reckless. Nobody was calling for red either and it was an important game.
If the severity of the injury is a factor then it would have been red. In any case, a referee is not in a position to judge the severity of an injury - some may be obvious but others are not.
Sindar (Roscommon) - Posts: 348 - 18/08/2021 13:11:30
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Replying To Saynothing: "Where was Cairian Whelan on Sunday night, was he afraid to go on Sunday Game and make a call on some of the incidents?" He was having a life.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7359 - 18/08/2021 13:17:06
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I heard Paul Flynn come out with some disappointing stuff on the Second Captains podcast yesterday. Firstly he said there was an "anti-Dublin bias in the media" which is absolutely laughable and McConville rightly called him on it. But the one I was really disappointed in, he said that players don't have any duty of care to other players, it's all on the ref. I thought that was pure guff especially from a fella that is a recent GPA CEO. Surely he knows better than that.
I was disappointed as I'd been enjoying him as an analyst and giving insight in to how the Dubs operated over the last 10 years. But he really didn't paint himself in a good light at all with those comments I thought.
JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 18/08/2021 13:17:12
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Replying To BeJasus: "Haha, state of his
Talking up an unproven Kerry team while undermining his own teams chances because he knows they've done squat over the past decade.
Bar Donegal in 2012 , a long.long time go i may add,
no team in Ulster has been anywhere near Mayo's /kerrys ,Dublins level over past 10 years.
Tyrone only got to the final in 2018 because of Mayo's shock exit at hands of Kildare." The more I read from some quarters the more I want Mayo to win the All-Ireland just to shut them all up. But last time I felt like this was 2011 with the Dubs and look what happened then!
But Donegal were also challenging in 2014 and it still hurts an awful lot that we didn't win that 2nd All-Ireland under Jim. There have only been ourselves, Kerry and Mayo as legitimate challengers to Dublin since 2011 in my view, and we haven't really come close to challenging since Jim left. Tyrone 2018 were very disappointing in the final.
JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 18/08/2021 13:20:33
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Watched the game back (on sky sports this time).
I have to say well done to both teams for a game of drama, effort and giving the country something to talk about. It was a pulsating encounter start to finish. Might not have been the highest quality game and yes there were incidents and talking points, but it was a game that really grabbed the imagination. Well done both sides. Perhaps one thing lost in all the talking points was the quality of tackles with the hand - both teams managed to win back possession with very well timed interceptions from the hand to the ball, hardly a touch on the opposition player. With the speed at which teams can break these days, the concentration needed for those interceptions must be immense.
Sky's coverage was different to RTE. Would be interested to hear if people here favour one over the other?
slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 18/08/2021 13:27:32
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Replying To oneoff: "On the day he didn't seem to be too sure...." Pure nonsense , grow up
superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 18/08/2021 13:43:55
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Replying To slayer: "Watched the game back (on sky sports this time).
I have to say well done to both teams for a game of drama, effort and giving the country something to talk about. It was a pulsating encounter start to finish. Might not have been the highest quality game and yes there were incidents and talking points, but it was a game that really grabbed the imagination. Well done both sides. Perhaps one thing lost in all the talking points was the quality of tackles with the hand - both teams managed to win back possession with very well timed interceptions from the hand to the ball, hardly a touch on the opposition player. With the speed at which teams can break these days, the concentration needed for those interceptions must be immense.
Sky's coverage was different to RTE. Would be interested to hear if people here favour one over the other?" Sky. All day everyday. Canavan is very good, the best I would say. Donaghey is fantastic as well. Grainne is a fantastic presenter too. Doesn't interrupt her guests unlike her counterpart on RTE.
Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 18/08/2021 13:50:21
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Replying To JoeSoap: "The more I read from some quarters the more I want Mayo to win the All-Ireland just to shut them all up. But last time I felt like this was 2011 with the Dubs and look what happened then!
But Donegal were also challenging in 2014 and it still hurts an awful lot that we didn't win that 2nd All-Ireland under Jim. There have only been ourselves, Kerry and Mayo as legitimate challengers to Dublin since 2011 in my view, and we haven't really come close to challenging since Jim left. Tyrone 2018 were very disappointing in the final." Forum is literally full of braindead posters who bend their views to attack a specific county.
There's multiple county forum users who want to see Kerry hammer Mayo so they can comfort themselves thinking the All-Ireland winners are on a different level, while the rest of the chasing pack including their own team are all on a similar level, having taken a hiding off Kerry in the earlier rounds.
Its like the brits blaming Brexit on Europe to distract from the reality, but they dont have any valid proof to back it up.
Just sheer ignorance.
BeJasus (UK) - Posts: 383 - 18/08/2021 13:54:54
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Replying To Saynothing: "Where was Cairian Whelan on Sunday night, was he afraid to go on Sunday Game and make a call on some of the incidents?" I think Mr Whelan was getting his CV sorted for any possible big management job,, ?
Heffo (Dublin) - Posts: 76 - 18/08/2021 13:57:02
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Replying To superbluedub: "Pure nonsense , grow up" Explain his magical recovery then?
oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 18/08/2021 13:58:53
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Replying To BeJasus: "Forum is literally full of braindead posters who bend their views to attack a specific county.
There's multiple county forum users who want to see Kerry hammer Mayo so they can comfort themselves thinking the All-Ireland winners are on a different level, while the rest of the chasing pack including their own team are all on a similar level, having taken a hiding off Kerry in the earlier rounds.
Its like the brits blaming Brexit on Europe to distract from the reality, but they dont have any valid proof to back it up.
Just sheer ignorance." No valid proof to back it up? So you're claiming that everything the brexiteers said during their winning campaign was disproven, literally every little thing? Hmmmmm.... OK, anyways, back to GAA business,,,
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1717 - 18/08/2021 14:03:52
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Replying To TheUsername: "Tyrone were in the final in 2018……..under Harte, same outcome as Mayo in the final." Dublin easiest win of the 6 , maybe last years victory over Mayo's inexperienced kids had a similar feel to it.
BeJasus (UK) - Posts: 383 - 18/08/2021 14:04:41
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Replying To slayer: "Watched the game back (on sky sports this time).
I have to say well done to both teams for a game of drama, effort and giving the country something to talk about. It was a pulsating encounter start to finish. Might not have been the highest quality game and yes there were incidents and talking points, but it was a game that really grabbed the imagination. Well done both sides. Perhaps one thing lost in all the talking points was the quality of tackles with the hand - both teams managed to win back possession with very well timed interceptions from the hand to the ball, hardly a touch on the opposition player. With the speed at which teams can break these days, the concentration needed for those interceptions must be immense.
Sky's coverage was different to RTE. Would be interested to hear if people here favour one over the other?" Sky worth the money for the GAA coverage alone. Mc Guinness, Donaghy and God are masters compared to RTE. BBC next to sky.
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2016 - 18/08/2021 14:05:04
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Replying To JoeSoap: "The more I read from some quarters the more I want Mayo to win the All-Ireland just to shut them all up. But last time I felt like this was 2011 with the Dubs and look what happened then!
But Donegal were also challenging in 2014 and it still hurts an awful lot that we didn't win that 2nd All-Ireland under Jim. There have only been ourselves, Kerry and Mayo as legitimate challengers to Dublin since 2011 in my view, and we haven't really come close to challenging since Jim left. Tyrone 2018 were very disappointing in the final." 2014 was really the one that got away from youse.
Gavvygavgav (Dublin) - Posts: 383 - 18/08/2021 14:05:14
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