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Replying To AfricanGael: "Look ,we all know how they won 6 All-Irelands in a row and the help they were given to get there from every quarter.
Had Kerry or Mayo been given the same treatment and advantages they would have won 6 in a row as well so it's no great achievement.
The only difference is they would have won in style and not have to resort to basketball.
In the end it was the basketball which caught the Dubs out, because they weren't able to play football when it came to pulling the game out of the fire." Basketball, ha ha. Love it. So we won at two sports, football and basketball. What a talented bunch we have. You don't know much about the rules of basketball if you're attempting to draw comparisons to that sport and hand passing in GAA. I do love those zonal blanket defences these days though. If you know anything about basketball you'll know that the blanket zonal defences are straight out of that sports' playbook. Not only Dublin playing basketball these days it seems. Any team setting up a blanket zonal defence is a basketball team.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 17/08/2021 12:47:43
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Replying To Joxer: "Basketball, ha ha. Love it. So we won at two sports, football and basketball. What a talented bunch we have. You don't know much about the rules of basketball if you're attempting to draw comparisons to that sport and hand passing in GAA. I do love those zonal blanket defences these days though. If you know anything about basketball you'll know that the blanket zonal defences are straight out of that sports' playbook. Not only Dublin playing basketball these days it seems. Any team setting up a blanket zonal defence is a basketball team." Magic Fenton! ;)
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 17/08/2021 12:53:02
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Replying To timmyhogan: ".
The McManamon "shoulder" tackle was the major media talking point - Gough later in the year felt the need to 'apologise'. However for those who watched the match in full it wasn't that different from a hit by AOM or somebody on Philly Mc on the Cusack side a few mins earlier, both were fouls. Goes to show how media talking points inform people's opinions I suppose as opposed to the match as a whole which is hardly news.
But to the salient issue - the "development of his style" as you put it, which certainly surprised Cooper & Gavin as well as us observers, was precisely the point of the post I made. If you think both games were reffed in the same manner we shall simply have to agree to differ- to put it very mildly." I've no idea what point you are trying to make. I never said both games were reffed in the same manner so it sounds like you have a bee in your bonnet over something else.
Sindar (Roscommon) - Posts: 348 - 17/08/2021 12:53:14
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Replying To Aibrean: " Replying To Sindar: "[quote=Aibrean: ""To distinguish between the two, a defender who pulls the attacker by the jersey and it is clear that his intent is to bring him to the ground is a black card."
I don't agree. "Intent" is not mentioned in the rules and, accordingly, is not a consideration. "Deliberately" is the word in the rules.
So, for example, when John Small tugged the jersey of Kevin McLoughlin you could not say that he "deliberately" pulled McLoughlin to the ground - even though McLoughlin ended up on the ground.
McStay got this one wrong, by the way. He was also mistaken on two counts when he said the re-taking of the 45 was due to a recent rule change whereby interfering with the free taker was a foul." You are right I should have used deliberate instead of intent. I don't think we can say Small deliberatley pulled McLoughlin to the ground though. That's not the way referees interpret this and I would be quite adamant that I am correct on that."
You sound like someone who didn't watch the game at all.
Now you are even misquoting your own posts, you said Small/ McLoughlin, period.
Now you are saying Small / Kevin McLoughlin and that's even wrong.
It was Byrne who pulled on McLoughlin.
Fecken hell how many attempts do you need to get your head around it !
AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 17/08/2021 12:54:20
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Replying To AfricanGael: "Dublin couldn't play football when it came to it, a basketball outfit, so anyone who says they were great champions knows nothing about football.
When asked, they couldn't play the game.
I must try and root out my post from a few months back which predicted that when they would come under real pressure that they wouldn't be able to play themselves out of it which was the case.
Beaten by a team of mostly young lads, one with broken ribs and with their key players missing.
Dublin were exposed and humiliated on Saturday night." Hermit you get more bitter by the day -:)
superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 17/08/2021 12:56:44
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Replying To Joxer: "Basketball, ha ha. Love it. So we won at two sports, football and basketball. What a talented bunch we have. You don't know much about the rules of basketball if you're attempting to draw comparisons to that sport and hand passing in GAA. I do love those zonal blanket defences these days though. If you know anything about basketball you'll know that the blanket zonal defences are straight out of that sports' playbook. Not only Dublin playing basketball these days it seems. Any team setting up a blanket zonal defence is a basketball team." "I do love those zonal blanket defences these days though"
Good for you if you do, but the rest of us like football,
AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 17/08/2021 12:58:12
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Replying To AfricanGael: "Well you have already made a serious mistake regarding the Small/McLoughlin incident and a wrong choice of words regarding players falling at the Euros so you have form when it comes to making mistakes." No mistake. You got the wrong "McLoughlin" incident. I was under the impression that there was very widespread comment and criticism of 'diving' in the Euros? Both before and after the Eriksen incident.
Aibrean (Kerry) - Posts: 263 - 17/08/2021 13:03:46
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Replying To galwayfball: "Absolute stupidity from him. He had no place being there and if it was vice versa philly running on there would be a lot more talk about it" Personally I was much happier that Aidan went on to deal with Philly rather than one of the on field 15. Obviously things had gotten why out of hand at that stage and a black or red card would have been disaster for Mayo.
Immer (Mayo) - Posts: 31 - 17/08/2021 13:05:05
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Replying To CTGAA10: "I see a lot of mayo posters on this site..none of ye have mentioned the stupidity of ye,re captain at the end of normal time..he goot involved with philly when he had been reaced and should have been watching from the stand..what do ye think of his actions?i think this was a huge mistake from all the officials and he should have received a red for it.." It was clear the ref had lost control at that stage and O'Shea should be commended for helping to calm the situation down which he did.
AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 17/08/2021 13:06:25
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Replying To Aibrean: "No mistake. You got the wrong "McLoughlin" incident. I was under the impression that there was very widespread comment and criticism of 'diving' in the Euros? Both before and after the Eriksen incident." The Christian Eriksen incident happened on day 2 of the tournament and there was only one game on Day 1 so you're digging some hole for yourself here.
AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 17/08/2021 13:16:09
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Replying To baire: "There are different types of supporters in all counties obviously! Most people in Ireland would normally support the underdog. Dublin and Kerry would never be underdogs, not in our lifetime anyway. I don't follow any soccer but I have noticed the influence of soccer on our games and on our supporters, especially in the the past 30 years.
It's called sport you know! I must be naive. If things are so vicious shouldn't we call it warfare or a blood sport.
Are you saying that neither Joe Connolly nor Joe Canning, two of our finest sportmen, were in "their right mind" when they said publicly that they'd love to see Mayo win an All Ireland?
Taking pleasure in other people's misfortune, well, that's not good for your soul unless you're a dystopian!" The 2 JCs are well able to play the media game.
I'd take anything a sportsperson says in the media with a pinch of salt. I was in a pub for the final of the Euros and I never seen such jubilation as I did when our neighbours were beaten. The guys that were so happy probably won't have to meet an England fan for months but if Mayo win Sam they'll be ramming it down our throats daily for years to come. The fact they haven't won it for 70 years doesn't change that reality one iota.
Mailman98 (Galway) - Posts: 319 - 17/08/2021 13:17:58
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Replying To cluichethar: "I never said you didn't. You said it looked good in real time and I asked you how a player can deliver a legal hit start from Smalls starting position on McLaughlin, he came from the front and unless McLaughlin turns there's no way to make contact with the shoulder. I'm beginning to think that some people seem to think a shoulder hit to the front part of the shoulder is legal it isn't. Outside of shoulder is where the contact has to be made. In a legal shoulder to shoulder hit a player is sent sideways not backwards. That's all I'm saying." Fair enough. I actually agree with you. I was just saying when I saw it first I thought I was a great shoulder. Obviously I was wrong. When I saw it in slow motion I realised it was a red card. The only proper way to shoulder is shoulder to shoulder.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3678 - 17/08/2021 13:20:03
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Replying To Immer: "Personally I was much happier that Aidan went on to deal with Philly rather than one of the on field 15. Obviously things had gotten why out of hand at that stage and a black or red card would have been disaster for Mayo." He did actually calm the situation but no he shouldnt have been there. I still believ if the situation was reversed philly would be dragged over the coals
Obviously the major talking point was the missed red card and not stopping play but AOS should not have been anywhere near the pitch
galwayfball (Galway) - Posts: 1678 - 17/08/2021 13:20:39
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Replying To AfricanGael: ""I do love those zonal blanket defences these days though"
Good for you if you do, but the rest of us like football," You're a Legend lad :)
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 17/08/2021 13:21:44
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Replying To daytona11: "He took O'Shea off.
Got that right.
That's obviously what I meant. On the sideline on the day Horan got his calls spot on." OK so Aidan oshea only became a poor full forward at the precise moment Horan removed him then! Just admit he got that call wrong and that AOS is only on the team now for old times sake.
Mailman98 (Galway) - Posts: 319 - 17/08/2021 13:23:11
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Replying To Sindar: "Yes you can deliberately pull someone to the ground by the jersey and that is a black card. However, that wasn't the case here. He pulled him back and not down. That might sound pedantic and technical but that's why words are carefully chosen in rules. You'd change the rule to state that a pull back is now a black card. Of course that causes other problems." I bow to your superior knowledge Sindar as you would know more about the rules than I.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3678 - 17/08/2021 13:28:25
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Replying To Sindar: "I've no idea what point you are trying to make. I never said both games were reffed in the same manner so it sounds like you have a bee in your bonnet over something else." .
Well in that case my apologies for having totally misinterpreted the gist of your reply - it seems we are in agreement that "both games were reffed in the same manner" is certainly not the case.
Which was the point of my original post ;-)
timmyhogan (UK) - Posts: 290 - 17/08/2021 13:38:49
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Replying To CiarraiMick: " Replying To Sindar: "Yes you can deliberately pull someone to the ground by the jersey and that is a black card. However, that wasn't the case here. He pulled him back and not down. That might sound pedantic and technical but that's why words are carefully chosen in rules. You'd change the rule to state that a pull back is now a black card. Of course that causes other problems." I bow to your superior knowledge Sindar as you would know more about the rules than I."
Black card all day long.
Small illegal charge on E McLoughlin, a red card all day long.
It became illegal once contact was made with the head, regardless of intent.
AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 17/08/2021 13:48:56
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Replying To Sindar: " Replying To Aibrean: ""To distinguish between the two, a defender who pulls the attacker by the jersey and it is clear that his intent is to bring him to the ground is a black card."
I don't agree. "Intent" is not mentioned in the rules and, accordingly, is not a consideration. "Deliberately" is the word in the rules.
So, for example, when John Small tugged the jersey of Kevin McLoughlin you could not say that he "deliberately" pulled McLoughlin to the ground - even though McLoughlin ended up on the ground.
McStay got this one wrong, by the way. He was also mistaken on two counts when he said the re-taking of the 45 was due to a recent rule change whereby interfering with the free taker was a foul." You are right I should have used deliberate instead of intent. I don't think we can say Small deliberatley pulled McLoughlin to the ground though. That's not the way referees interpret this and I would be quite adamant that I am correct on that."
It was Byrne, and if you look at it again you will see that Byrne did not pull McLoughlin back, he caught him on the side and spun him to the ground so it's a black card all day long so pull back doesn't even come into it.
AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 17/08/2021 14:00:49
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Replying To AfricanGael: " Replying To Aibrean: "[quote=Sindar: "[quote=Aibrean: ""To distinguish between the two, a defender who pulls the attacker by the jersey and it is clear that his intent is to bring him to the ground is a black card."
I don't agree. "Intent" is not mentioned in the rules and, accordingly, is not a consideration. "Deliberately" is the word in the rules.
So, for example, when John Small tugged the jersey of Kevin McLoughlin you could not say that he "deliberately" pulled McLoughlin to the ground - even though McLoughlin ended up on the ground.
McStay got this one wrong, by the way. He was also mistaken on two counts when he said the re-taking of the 45 was due to a recent rule change whereby interfering with the free taker was a foul." You are right I should have used deliberate instead of intent. I don't think we can say Small deliberatley pulled McLoughlin to the ground though. That's not the way referees interpret this and I would be quite adamant that I am correct on that."
You sound like someone who didn't watch the game at all.
Now you are even misquoting your own posts, you said Small/ McLoughlin, period.
Now you are saying Small / Kevin McLoughlin and that's even wrong.
It was Byrne who pulled on McLoughlin.
Fecken hell how many attempts do you need to get your head around it !"]Calm down bud! I made a mistake in the names that's all. Thanks for pointing it out though.
Sindar (Roscommon) - Posts: 348 - 17/08/2021 14:01:06
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