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Munster Hurling Final

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "
Replying To Bon:  "[quote=Fairplayalways:  "[quote=johnocarroll17:  "[quote=Fairplayalways:  "Going back to another famous Tipp/Limerick battle...what games these were too...The 1996 Munster Senior Hurling Championship Finals were two hurling matches played in July 1996. The first game was played at the Gaelic Grounds in Limerick and finished in a draw 0-19 to 1-16 after Tipperary at one stage had a ten-point lead. The replay was played a week later on 14 July at Páirc Uí Chaoimh, Cork, County Cork, and saw Limerick claim their second first Munster Championship of the decade, winning on a scoreline of 4-7 to 0-16. Overall, this was Limerick's eighteenth Munster Senior Hurling Championship title.[1


Tipperay had defeated Waterford in the quarter-final by 1-14 to 1-11 and Kerry in the semi-final by 4-19 to 2-11 to reach the final, while Limerick had defeated Cork by 3-18 to 1-8 in the quarter-final and All-Ireland Champions Clare by 1-13 to 0-15 in the semi-final to reach the final.[2
Both matches were screened live by RTÉ as part of The Sunday Game programme."]All of Limerick's games were televised live that year. It was the first year of real live coverage. And who will forget Sunday 14th of July when the Munster final replay and the Leinster final were both shown live."]it was probably the real start but the first provinicial hurling final that was televised was 1989 between Tipp and Waterford...Waterford had a few great hurlers around that time, be it some were aging abit...."]I remember that as a youngster, leinster final/munster final same day. What a days entertainment that was."]I accidentally deleted the match off my recording machine how do I get to a link to see the game on RTE player or is the game on utube?"]Both the 1996 provincial finals are on YouTube

johnocarroll17 (Limerick) - Posts: 408 - 20/07/2021 16:23:52    2362191

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "
Replying To Bon:  "[quote=Fairplayalways:  "[quote=johnocarroll17:  "[quote=Fairplayalways:  "Going back to another famous Tipp/Limerick battle...what games these were too...The 1996 Munster Senior Hurling Championship Finals were two hurling matches played in July 1996. The first game was played at the Gaelic Grounds in Limerick and finished in a draw 0-19 to 1-16 after Tipperary at one stage had a ten-point lead. The replay was played a week later on 14 July at Páirc Uí Chaoimh, Cork, County Cork, and saw Limerick claim their second first Munster Championship of the decade, winning on a scoreline of 4-7 to 0-16. Overall, this was Limerick's eighteenth Munster Senior Hurling Championship title.[1


Tipperay had defeated Waterford in the quarter-final by 1-14 to 1-11 and Kerry in the semi-final by 4-19 to 2-11 to reach the final, while Limerick had defeated Cork by 3-18 to 1-8 in the quarter-final and All-Ireland Champions Clare by 1-13 to 0-15 in the semi-final to reach the final.[2
Both matches were screened live by RTÉ as part of The Sunday Game programme."]All of Limerick's games were televised live that year. It was the first year of real live coverage. And who will forget Sunday 14th of July when the Munster final replay and the Leinster final were both shown live."]it was probably the real start but the first provinicial hurling final that was televised was 1989 between Tipp and Waterford...Waterford had a few great hurlers around that time, be it some were aging abit...."]I remember that as a youngster, leinster final/munster final same day. What a days entertainment that was."]I accidentally deleted the match off my recording machine how do I get to a link to see the game on RTE player or is the game on utube?"]If you pop "munster hurling final 1996" into the search bar on YouTube it comes up in segments, I think 9 parts in total. Roughly 10minute slots.
Hope that helps.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2269 - 20/07/2021 16:51:39    2362200

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Replying To Bon:  "
Replying To Oldtourman:  "[quote=Bon:  "[quote=Fairplayalways:  "[quote=johnocarroll17:  "[quote=Fairplayalways:  "Going back to another famous Tipp/Limerick battle...what games these were too...The 1996 Munster Senior Hurling Championship Finals were two hurling matches played in July 1996. The first game was played at the Gaelic Grounds in Limerick and finished in a draw 0-19 to 1-16 after Tipperary at one stage had a ten-point lead. The replay was played a week later on 14 July at Páirc Uí Chaoimh, Cork, County Cork, and saw Limerick claim their second first Munster Championship of the decade, winning on a scoreline of 4-7 to 0-16. Overall, this was Limerick's eighteenth Munster Senior Hurling Championship title.[1


Tipperay had defeated Waterford in the quarter-final by 1-14 to 1-11 and Kerry in the semi-final by 4-19 to 2-11 to reach the final, while Limerick had defeated Cork by 3-18 to 1-8 in the quarter-final and All-Ireland Champions Clare by 1-13 to 0-15 in the semi-final to reach the final.[2
Both matches were screened live by RTÉ as part of The Sunday Game programme."]All of Limerick's games were televised live that year. It was the first year of real live coverage. And who will forget Sunday 14th of July when the Munster final replay and the Leinster final were both shown live."]it was probably the real start but the first provinicial hurling final that was televised was 1989 between Tipp and Waterford...Waterford had a few great hurlers around that time, be it some were aging abit...."]I remember that as a youngster, leinster final/munster final same day. What a days entertainment that was."]I accidentally deleted the match off my recording machine how do I get to a link to see the game on RTE player or is the game on utube?"]If you pop "munster hurling final 1996" into the search bar on YouTube it comes up in segments, I think 9 parts in total. Roughly 10minute slots.
Hope that helps."]Thanks Bon. However it is last Sundays Final I deleted. How do I get it on Rte 2 Player. Any help appreciated.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4490 - 20/07/2021 21:57:19    2362306

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "
Replying To Bon:  "[quote=Oldtourman:  "[quote=Bon:  "[quote=Fairplayalways:  "[quote=johnocarroll17:  "[quote=Fairplayalways:  "Going back to another famous Tipp/Limerick battle...what games these were too...The 1996 Munster Senior Hurling Championship Finals were two hurling matches played in July 1996. The first game was played at the Gaelic Grounds in Limerick and finished in a draw 0-19 to 1-16 after Tipperary at one stage had a ten-point lead. The replay was played a week later on 14 July at Páirc Uí Chaoimh, Cork, County Cork, and saw Limerick claim their second first Munster Championship of the decade, winning on a scoreline of 4-7 to 0-16. Overall, this was Limerick's eighteenth Munster Senior Hurling Championship title.[1


Tipperay had defeated Waterford in the quarter-final by 1-14 to 1-11 and Kerry in the semi-final by 4-19 to 2-11 to reach the final, while Limerick had defeated Cork by 3-18 to 1-8 in the quarter-final and All-Ireland Champions Clare by 1-13 to 0-15 in the semi-final to reach the final.[2
Both matches were screened live by RTÉ as part of The Sunday Game programme."]All of Limerick's games were televised live that year. It was the first year of real live coverage. And who will forget Sunday 14th of July when the Munster final replay and the Leinster final were both shown live."]it was probably the real start but the first provinicial hurling final that was televised was 1989 between Tipp and Waterford...Waterford had a few great hurlers around that time, be it some were aging abit...."]I remember that as a youngster, leinster final/munster final same day. What a days entertainment that was."]I accidentally deleted the match off my recording machine how do I get to a link to see the game on RTE player or is the game on utube?"]If you pop "munster hurling final 1996" into the search bar on YouTube it comes up in segments, I think 9 parts in total. Roughly 10minute slots.
Hope that helps."]Thanks Bon. However it is last Sundays Final I deleted. How do I get it on Rte 2 Player. Any help appreciated."]Apologies, I forgot to record it myself but if you go into the RTE player and just stick Hurling into the search bar it comes up on that. Along with Saturdays games.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2269 - 20/07/2021 23:00:37    2362337

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Replying To Bon:  "
Replying To Oldtourman:  "[quote=Bon:  "[quote=Oldtourman:  "[quote=Bon:  "[quote=Fairplayalways:  "[quote=johnocarroll17:  "[quote=Fairplayalways:  "Going back to another famous Tipp/Limerick battle...what games these were too...The 1996 Munster Senior Hurling Championship Finals were two hurling matches played in July 1996. The first game was played at the Gaelic Grounds in Limerick and finished in a draw 0-19 to 1-16 after Tipperary at one stage had a ten-point lead. The replay was played a week later on 14 July at Páirc Uí Chaoimh, Cork, County Cork, and saw Limerick claim their second first Munster Championship of the decade, winning on a scoreline of 4-7 to 0-16. Overall, this was Limerick's eighteenth Munster Senior Hurling Championship title.[1


Tipperay had defeated Waterford in the quarter-final by 1-14 to 1-11 and Kerry in the semi-final by 4-19 to 2-11 to reach the final, while Limerick had defeated Cork by 3-18 to 1-8 in the quarter-final and All-Ireland Champions Clare by 1-13 to 0-15 in the semi-final to reach the final.[2
Both matches were screened live by RTÉ as part of The Sunday Game programme."]All of Limerick's games were televised live that year. It was the first year of real live coverage. And who will forget Sunday 14th of July when the Munster final replay and the Leinster final were both shown live."]it was probably the real start but the first provinicial hurling final that was televised was 1989 between Tipp and Waterford...Waterford had a few great hurlers around that time, be it some were aging abit...."]I remember that as a youngster, leinster final/munster final same day. What a days entertainment that was."]I accidentally deleted the match off my recording machine how do I get to a link to see the game on RTE player or is the game on utube?"]If you pop "munster hurling final 1996" into the search bar on YouTube it comes up in segments, I think 9 parts in total. Roughly 10minute slots.
Hope that helps."]Thanks Bon. However it is last Sundays Final I deleted. How do I get it on Rte 2 Player. Any help appreciated."]Apologies, I forgot to record it myself but if you go into the RTE player and just stick Hurling into the search bar it comes up on that. Along with Saturdays games."]Thanks BON - much obliged.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4490 - 21/07/2021 09:46:12    2362409

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Replying To Breezy:  "How many times in a game will a defender just straight on hit a forward while "trying to get the ball" we all know it happens so if we were to go back and look half the team would be gone. Im sure Barrett does too and once play moved on im sure he didnt fell too aggrieved that Gillane stayed on and there is no point dwelling too much on it."
Rubbish ! trying to get the ball is very different. The ball was in his hand not barretts and he swings back. This was 100% a red. You could really injure a player by doing this. This was a savage dirty stroke and you cannot justify this. If people think this is ok then we have a real problem. He should get a hefty ban. The ref has a duty of care to protect players. I would love to hear kielys views on this seen he is so quick to question other teams !!!!

ecad123 (Galway) - Posts: 272 - 22/07/2021 13:06:59    2362832

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Replying To ecad123:  "Rubbish ! trying to get the ball is very different. The ball was in his hand not barretts and he swings back. This was 100% a red. You could really injure a player by doing this. This was a savage dirty stroke and you cannot justify this. If people think this is ok then we have a real problem. He should get a hefty ban. The ref has a duty of care to protect players. I would love to hear kielys views on this seen he is so quick to question other teams !!!!"
It was not a savage stroke, if it was he would not have been able to get back up and display no after affects a minute later. As I said before I had my hand broken on two occasions playing hurling and I did not roll around the ground like Barrett did on either occasion. Like many others of my day when clattered I stayed up and if I had to go down I would not have gone rolling around the ground like Barrett did. I think it was the theatrical nature of his performance that kept Gullane on the field. I agree Gullane and Flanagan should have gone but the Tipp player, who high tackled Lynch should have also seen red if that was the case. However, having said that both Peter Casey, who could not resume and had to be helped from the field, and Byrnes were victims of dirty tackles in the Munster Final two years and no action, when one (definitely) if not two Tipp men should have got the line, was taken.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4490 - 22/07/2021 15:27:48    2362887

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Replying To ecad123:  "Rubbish ! trying to get the ball is very different. The ball was in his hand not barretts and he swings back. This was 100% a red. You could really injure a player by doing this. This was a savage dirty stroke and you cannot justify this. If people think this is ok then we have a real problem. He should get a hefty ban. The ref has a duty of care to protect players. I would love to hear kielys views on this seen he is so quick to question other teams !!!!"
Youre either very naive of just straight lying if you are trying to say defenders don't hit attackers on purpose while making it look like they are trying to get the ball.

If you were to watch Gillane for the whole game I bet Barrett gave him a fair few whacks much harder than he got all under the false pretense of "going for the ball"

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 22/07/2021 16:11:34    2362906

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "It was not a savage stroke, if it was he would not have been able to get back up and display no after affects a minute later. As I said before I had my hand broken on two occasions playing hurling and I did not roll around the ground like Barrett did on either occasion. Like many others of my day when clattered I stayed up and if I had to go down I would not have gone rolling around the ground like Barrett did. I think it was the theatrical nature of his performance that kept Gullane on the field. I agree Gullane and Flanagan should have gone but the Tipp player, who high tackled Lynch should have also seen red if that was the case. However, having said that both Peter Casey, who could not resume and had to be helped from the field, and Byrnes were victims of dirty tackles in the Munster Final two years and no action, when one (definitely) if not two Tipp men should have got the line, was taken."
Two wrongs don't make a right. We all intend to stay up but if you get hurt you get hurt no shame. I am sure you were a good hard hurler but that's not hard hurling. What would have happened if a stroke like that was pulled in your day?? Gullane would have been skinned alive. Hard hurling is fair and tough but it is not dirty, that was a cowardly belt with no consideration of the damage he could have done.

ecad123 (Galway) - Posts: 272 - 22/07/2021 17:24:40    2362924

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "It was not a savage stroke, if it was he would not have been able to get back up and display no after affects a minute later. As I said before I had my hand broken on two occasions playing hurling and I did not roll around the ground like Barrett did on either occasion. Like many others of my day when clattered I stayed up and if I had to go down I would not have gone rolling around the ground like Barrett did. I think it was the theatrical nature of his performance that kept Gullane on the field. I agree Gullane and Flanagan should have gone but the Tipp player, who high tackled Lynch should have also seen red if that was the case. However, having said that both Peter Casey, who could not resume and had to be helped from the field, and Byrnes were victims of dirty tackles in the Munster Final two years and no action, when one (definitely) if not two Tipp men should have got the line, was taken."
Two wrongs don't make a right. We all intend to stay up but if you get hurt you get hurt no shame. I am sure you were a good hard hurler but that's not hard hurling. What would have happened if a stroke like that was pulled in your day?? Gullane would have been skinned alive. Hard hurling is fair and tough but it is not dirty, that was a cowardly belt with no consideration of the damage he could have done.

ecad123 (Galway) - Posts: 272 - 22/07/2021 17:24:43    2362925

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "I hate feigning injury or theatrics and there is plenty of it going on in both codes but Barrett deserves the benefit of the doubt here. It was a very hard bang and looked like it was the edge of the Hurley he got hit with so I would say it was fairly painful"
In all my years hurling, and i'm not saying this trying to be a hard man, no belt during a game from a hurl hurt me when adrenaline was pumping. A direct belt to the head or something to the groin maybe. It's when you cool down you wonder when did i get that knock.

I think a lot of people, especially those who never played the game, think belts are a lot worse than they are. When fired up lads could be flaking you everywhere and you'll feel nothing.

The worst you do is grimace and crouch and get on with it. This falling on the ground is a learned behaviour, as is banging your hurl on the ground.

CC2020 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 173 - 22/07/2021 17:48:51    2362931

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "
Replying To Bon:  "[quote=Oldtourman:  "[quote=Bon:  "[quote=Oldtourman:  "[quote=Bon:  "[quote=Fairplayalways:  "[quote=johnocarroll17:  "[quote=Fairplayalways:  "Going back to another famous Tipp/Limerick battle...what games these were too...The 1996 Munster Senior Hurling Championship Finals were two hurling matches played in July 1996. The first game was played at the Gaelic Grounds in Limerick and finished in a draw 0-19 to 1-16 after Tipperary at one stage had a ten-point lead. The replay was played a week later on 14 July at Páirc Uí Chaoimh, Cork, County Cork, and saw Limerick claim their second first Munster Championship of the decade, winning on a scoreline of 4-7 to 0-16. Overall, this was Limerick's eighteenth Munster Senior Hurling Championship title.[1


Tipperay had defeated Waterford in the quarter-final by 1-14 to 1-11 and Kerry in the semi-final by 4-19 to 2-11 to reach the final, while Limerick had defeated Cork by 3-18 to 1-8 in the quarter-final and All-Ireland Champions Clare by 1-13 to 0-15 in the semi-final to reach the final.[2
Both matches were screened live by RTÉ as part of The Sunday Game programme."]All of Limerick's games were televised live that year. It was the first year of real live coverage. And who will forget Sunday 14th of July when the Munster final replay and the Leinster final were both shown live."]it was probably the real start but the first provinicial hurling final that was televised was 1989 between Tipp and Waterford...Waterford had a few great hurlers around that time, be it some were aging abit...."]I remember that as a youngster, leinster final/munster final same day. What a days entertainment that was."]I accidentally deleted the match off my recording machine how do I get to a link to see the game on RTE player or is the game on utube?"]If you pop "munster hurling final 1996" into the search bar on YouTube it comes up in segments, I think 9 parts in total. Roughly 10minute slots.
Hope that helps."]Thanks Bon. However it is last Sundays Final I deleted. How do I get it on Rte 2 Player. Any help appreciated."]Apologies, I forgot to record it myself but if you go into the RTE player and just stick Hurling into the search bar it comes up on that. Along with Saturdays games."]Thanks BON - much obliged."]That's you setup nicely now for the weekend, watch the Hurling Saturday then the rte player Sunday!

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2269 - 22/07/2021 17:55:19    2362933

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Replying To ecad123:  "Two wrongs don't make a right. We all intend to stay up but if you get hurt you get hurt no shame. I am sure you were a good hard hurler but that's not hard hurling. What would have happened if a stroke like that was pulled in your day?? Gullane would have been skinned alive. Hard hurling is fair and tough but it is not dirty, that was a cowardly belt with no consideration of the damage he could have done."
It always amuses me that when Tipp men committed those offences they were not highlighted in the same way as Limerick indiscretions are even though the man of the match in 2019 had to be helped off the field.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4490 - 22/07/2021 18:06:38    2362936

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Replying To ecad123:  "Two wrongs don't make a right. We all intend to stay up but if you get hurt you get hurt no shame. I am sure you were a good hard hurler but that's not hard hurling. What would have happened if a stroke like that was pulled in your day?? Gullane would have been skinned alive. Hard hurling is fair and tough but it is not dirty, that was a cowardly belt with no consideration of the damage he could have done."
It always amuses me that when Tipp men committed those offences they were not highlighted in the same way as Limerick indiscretions are even though the man of the match in 2019 had to be helped off the field.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4490 - 22/07/2021 18:06:55    2362937

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Replying To CC2020:  "In all my years hurling, and i'm not saying this trying to be a hard man, no belt during a game from a hurl hurt me when adrenaline was pumping. A direct belt to the head or something to the groin maybe. It's when you cool down you wonder when did i get that knock.

I think a lot of people, especially those who never played the game, think belts are a lot worse than they are. When fired up lads could be flaking you everywhere and you'll feel nothing.

The worst you do is grimace and crouch and get on with it. This falling on the ground is a learned behaviour, as is banging your hurl on the ground."
Well said, I have to agree with you 100%.
You've got the nail on the head there. It is a horrible learned behaviour .

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2269 - 23/07/2021 13:35:52    2363167

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I had to laugh when our own former referee Brian Gavin said Aaron Gillane should have walked for his swing back on Chris Barrett...at least Gillanes reaction was that, a reaction...Tommy Walsh lost the plot during a melee and swung his hurling in a chopping fashion at a Tipperary player back in the day, and missed he Tipperary player but hit Gavin, cutting his eye/nose area, Gavan only gave a card and said after "he (Walsh) didnt mean to hit me"....I rest my case......Kilkenny got away with alot under Gavan a few more referees....Ide say they clapped their hands when they seen him down to ref their games....interestingly when the rules were reviewed then on dangerous play/borderline play, the Kilkenny dominance ended...dont get me wrong, they were the best team I seen for longivity, but they did get away with alot...referees were afraid of them I used to think...

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 1037 - 23/07/2021 13:50:19    2363173

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Replying To Fairplayalways:  "I had to laugh when our own former referee Brian Gavin said Aaron Gillane should have walked for his swing back on Chris Barrett...at least Gillanes reaction was that, a reaction...Tommy Walsh lost the plot during a melee and swung his hurling in a chopping fashion at a Tipperary player back in the day, and missed he Tipperary player but hit Gavin, cutting his eye/nose area, Gavan only gave a card and said after "he (Walsh) didnt mean to hit me"....I rest my case......Kilkenny got away with alot under Gavan a few more referees....Ide say they clapped their hands when they seen him down to ref their games....interestingly when the rules were reviewed then on dangerous play/borderline play, the Kilkenny dominance ended...dont get me wrong, they were the best team I seen for longivity, but they did get away with alot...referees were afraid of them I used to think..."
Tommy Walsh was one of my favourite players but he got away with one that day. I'm not sure what he was trying to do - it wasn't a full-blooded swing and fortunately only drew a small amount of blood from Gavin's nose. My recollection is that Tommy wasn't even booked, and I believe that that he subsequently sent his jersey to Gavin with an apology. Yes, Kilkenny's play was borderline on occasions and Gavin was more tolerant than other referees but I think the end of their dominance had more to do with the retirement of some great players than with any review of the rules.

midlands (Westmeath) - Posts: 601 - 23/07/2021 16:58:37    2363224

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Replying To Fairplayalways:  "I had to laugh when our own former referee Brian Gavin said Aaron Gillane should have walked for his swing back on Chris Barrett...at least Gillanes reaction was that, a reaction...Tommy Walsh lost the plot during a melee and swung his hurling in a chopping fashion at a Tipperary player back in the day, and missed he Tipperary player but hit Gavin, cutting his eye/nose area, Gavan only gave a card and said after "he (Walsh) didnt mean to hit me"....I rest my case......Kilkenny got away with alot under Gavan a few more referees....Ide say they clapped their hands when they seen him down to ref their games....interestingly when the rules were reviewed then on dangerous play/borderline play, the Kilkenny dominance ended...dont get me wrong, they were the best team I seen for longivity, but they did get away with alot...referees were afraid of them I used to think..."
Well done for calling it. "They got away with a lot" , and mcu of today's controversy on cynical play started with Brian and co 10-15 years and have "cowed" players managers, officials and media since.

Fire away , deflect , obfuscate as you will ..the more KK refutes this assertion, the more he/they implicate themselves.

PatOLogical (Limerick) - Posts: 1377 - 23/07/2021 17:17:21    2363227

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Replying To Fairplayalways:  "I had to laugh when our own former referee Brian Gavin said Aaron Gillane should have walked for his swing back on Chris Barrett...at least Gillanes reaction was that, a reaction...Tommy Walsh lost the plot during a melee and swung his hurling in a chopping fashion at a Tipperary player back in the day, and missed he Tipperary player but hit Gavin, cutting his eye/nose area, Gavan only gave a card and said after "he (Walsh) didnt mean to hit me"....I rest my case......Kilkenny got away with alot under Gavan a few more referees....Ide say they clapped their hands when they seen him down to ref their games....interestingly when the rules were reviewed then on dangerous play/borderline play, the Kilkenny dominance ended...dont get me wrong, they were the best team I seen for longivity, but they did get away with alot...referees were afraid of them I used to think..."
Have to agree. He would not have looked a bit out of place with a stroppy shirt. Nothing raking away from the greatest team before this Limerick one.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3026 - 23/07/2021 17:44:51    2363233

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Replying To CC2020:  "In all my years hurling, and i'm not saying this trying to be a hard man, no belt during a game from a hurl hurt me when adrenaline was pumping. A direct belt to the head or something to the groin maybe. It's when you cool down you wonder when did i get that knock.

I think a lot of people, especially those who never played the game, think belts are a lot worse than they are. When fired up lads could be flaking you everywhere and you'll feel nothing.

The worst you do is grimace and crouch and get on with it. This falling on the ground is a learned behaviour, as is banging your hurl on the ground."
I agree with you about the flakes and these theatrics that our now common place. However if you have to drag your leg around the factory floor or try to drag yourself into the tractor and down the pit to milk the cows the next day that adrenaline rush isn't much good. All because someone pulled on you off the ball. The players still need to be protected and also penalize simulation.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3026 - 23/07/2021 18:06:17    2363238

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