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True but the problem is i would think that the Ulster teams might not want to get rid of the provincial in football and maybe in hurling the munster teams likewise. The MSHC though is nt the same anymore since they changed the format.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3680 - 12/07/2021 14:07:02 2359011 Link 0 |
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The Fa cup died because of the champions league. centerfield (Mayo) - Posts: 360 - 12/07/2021 14:39:46 2359027 Link 1 |
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Think you will find most GAA folk are conservative with a small c. Traditional minded. I certainly wouldnt want provincial championships done away with. A poster on another thread came up with the idea of running the provincial championships earlier then a league type all Ireland championship afterwards. And do away with the league. I could live with that.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12114 - 12/07/2021 14:57:40 2359037 Link 0 |
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Kerry and Cork have dominated Munster since the 1880s. Likewise Galway and Mayo in Connacht. Dublins total dominance in Leinster is only a relatively recent occurrence. Last 15 odd years. And I suspect not going to continue for ever. It's the way it has always been. 14 counties have never won an All Ireland. Change is needed for the weaker counties? Well what changes do you propose to get Leitrim or Wicklow etc winning an All Ireland title that would be fair on all the other counties?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12114 - 12/07/2021 15:03:27 2359041 Link 0 |
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If we're taking from Soccer - they tried to decouple the local leagues from the European competition and form a European Super League resulting in a massive backlash from fans and apologies all round. I think something similar would result here if decoupling the provincial championships from the All Ireland. For me - the provincial championship can be used to allow every county to notionally compete for the All Ireland but perhaps doesn't need to have the massive influence it currently has (i.e. Round 1 of the qualifiers have 1 Connaught, 2 Munster, London and the rest Leinster & Ulster). I'd have dual paths to the All Ireland 1/4 finals - one way by winning your province and another way by coming though a tiered seeding competition of some sort (I like the look of the Swiss system that will be used in next years Champions League for this). brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 292 - 12/07/2021 15:20:26 2359049 Link 0 |
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Done right though Limerick would have a new trophy to go for in a proper tired AI. I do think and decoupling would kill the Provincials though as they would just become warm up games with experimental sides like a spring McGrath cup
Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 12/07/2021 15:47:53 2359062 Link 0 |
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The 2 pathways is the best can come up with. Top 4 from the league plus 4 Provincial champions qualify for the All Ireland quarterfinals. If you qualify twice you get a bye to the semifinals. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4244 - 12/07/2021 18:53:37 2359123 Link 3 |
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I have played that out many times on paper and it works very well. The 'league' part needs tiering though. (And yes, I do need to get out more) Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 1064 - 12/07/2021 19:58:27 2359147 Link 0 |
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Keep the Ulster championship - the others have no real value to those that generally win them (Mayo, Galway,Dublin,Kerry) With that as a starting point - develop a tiered all Ireland structure that incorporates retaining the Ulster championship (mostly) and arranges everything else to suit The GAA already have a template for this - it's called the hurling championship tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1140 - 13/07/2021 03:21:13 2359239 Link 0 |
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ECL Swiss-style reform starts in 2024.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2632 - 13/07/2021 03:32:46 2359240 Link 0 |
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To Eddie - omahant (USA) - Posts: 2632 - 13/07/2021 03:52:58 2359243 Link 0 |
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Like hurling, perhaps there should be only one major Prov (Ulster 9) and the Rest (23). omahant (USA) - Posts: 2632 - 13/07/2021 05:06:54 2359246 Link 0 |
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Yeah the league part could just be the current National League of 4 tiers of 8. It could be 3 tiers. It could be 2 tiers of 2 groups of 8. It's flexible. It keeps the Provincials part of the All Ireland series and every team in with a chance of success. Second chances are limited to a select few who have earned them through the league phase. Brings back a more do or die flavour to the provincials but teams are getting more meaningful matches because the league pathway is now important. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4244 - 13/07/2021 06:16:52 2359251 Link 4 |
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I don't think it would take much change to vastly improve the championship. Instead of bringing in a 2nd tier Cup after teams lose in their province, just have teams start off in their respective grade based off their league position. Teams in the lower divisions can aim to win a 2nd tier championship to be promoted to Sam Maguire the next year. This removes the now pointless provincial championships and wouldn't have the nonsense of what we seen with Mayo and Leitrim on Sunday. PK57 (Louth) - Posts: 1656 - 13/07/2021 08:31:19 2359262 Link 0 |
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Using the league as the seeding for the Championship could still have a national league champion like how Aussie Rules have a Minor Premiership (whoever tops the regular season table) - its not a major title but is a feather in you cap. We've set aside 6 Months of the year for Inter-County football action; the average county gets 10 games in this time with most of these in the league early in the year. Surely we should be looking for 3-4 games a month in Feb / Mar / May / Jun / July with the knockout games starting at the end of July and through August. The proposal the GAA have for decoupling the Provincial Championships and using the league as a structure for the championship in my opinion is crazy. Not only are we removing 140 years of tradition and the crowds that attend the provincial matches and finals but not getting anything extra for it. If the league is being used to feed into the All Ireland series like this it would need a serious expansion in activity rather than just switching into the summer months. brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 292 - 13/07/2021 09:37:07 2359271 Link 1 |
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A version of the hurling structure is the way to go. Have group phase prov championships for the top 16/20 whatever and a second tier that gets you promoted. The current system or any system linked to the league is very unfair on div 2 and 3 teams Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 13/07/2021 09:58:40 2359278 Link 0 |
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Anything I suggest is working off the GAA's new assigned window of February to July for intercounty activity. Depending on whether you want to start in February or not there's around 21-25 weeks free for intercounty. I think any suggestions then have to be around 16 to a very hard max of 19 games for teams to be able to be played and provide adequate breaks. The 4 divisions of 8 plus provincials plus All Ireland quarterfinals get you up to 14 max weeks. There's a little expansion possible for the leagues, not much though. 3 tiers of 11/11/10 could work. 2 up 2 down plus a playoff between 3rd in the lower division v 9th in the higher division. 12/10/10 could be fine too. I don't think you can add too much more though. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4244 - 13/07/2021 10:10:47 2359279 Link 3 |
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Connacht is also competitive. No county has successfully defended it since 2015 and three of the five counties have won it since then. Leinster was the jewel in the crown but since the GAA's intervention in Dublin it has died and is now no longer worthy of the name competition. I agree reform is necessary but I would be very wary of decoupling the provincial championships from the All Ireland. The reform that is suggested most often is a Champions League type format. The Champions League group stages are soulless and devoid of any interest because they have been engineered that way. The Champions League is only worth watching when you get to the quarter finals by which time the usual suspects begin to emerge which is what UEFA want. The Champions League is now a pale shadow of what it could and should be. The provincial championships with all their serious flaws do offer the chance of tangible success whether that might be winning games against local rivals, progression to a final or actually winning them. Look at what it meant to the likes of Cavan, Tipperary and Roscommon to win them. Go back a little further and you can include Laois, Kildare, Westmeath and Sligo in that.Look what it means/meant to the likes of Louth, Wexford and Limerick to make the finals of provincial championships.. look at what it means to all if the Ulster counties. We should be very wary of jettisoning that. There is relentless negativity about football. It is to a large extent media driven. It used to be about blanket defences. The buzz words for complaining about the football championship this year are the lack of competitiveness and fairness of the provincial system. Next year it could be the fact that players can't defend anymore. That is a topic that was discussed a few weeks ago. By all means look at restructuring the competition but be very wary about decoupling the provincial championships from the overall competition. As Jim McGuinness said, "once they're gone they're gone."
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 13/07/2021 10:15:28 2359281 Link 0 |
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It needs to happen so badly in both codes. StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1737 - 13/07/2021 11:05:50 2359305 Link 0 |
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Hurling has been a closed shop and always will be. Why are Kerry deliberately excluded from the Munster championship? Their only hope of playing in the Liam McCarthy is to play in Leinster.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 13/07/2021 11:25:52 2359314 Link 0 |