National Forum

2021 Hurling Championship

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Canuck, the referee did not ignore it- he dealt with it by giving him a yellow. If he ignored it Gullane would have been suspended after the event like Tomas O'Shea was after a Limerick game years ago."
Yes but we all know that was not the correct punishment. Look I am glad that Gullane was not sent off but too much inconsistency and the consequence from one player to the other needs to be fair.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 28/07/2021 15:34:21    2365145

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Replying To carlowman:  "I am afraid I can't agree with you regarding the time element in the sending off. How many minutes do teams have at half time... 15 min I believe.
If that is correct, do you expect the ref to go into a dressing room at half time and send off a player ?

The ref got added info from his umpires after the half time whistle for an off the ball incident and acted accordingly by giving the red card immediately before the resumption of the second half. This is not the first time this has happened.
Nothing at all wrong with his decision.

In fact what woukd we be saying if the ref had not acted ? We would be lambasting him for NOT taking the info from his umpires!
It really is galling to see Waterford trying to get their player off suspension on what is being described as a technicality.
Dinal Cusack made an excellent response to Derek McGraths pathetic response to the incident on The Sunday Game too.
For the record I think the ref was fully correct to send the player off and I think Waterford will not be successful if they go ahead with an appeal."
What do you think Donal Og would be saying if it was Pat Horgan ? What did he say in 2017 about fairness when Horgan was punished in 2017 by missing a league game the next year and Gleeson an All-Ireland final ? Donal has a pair of rose tinted glasses in his back pocket the same as Derek, Cody, Kiely and everyone else.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 28/07/2021 15:48:35    2365155

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  ""It was only the second time Waterford ever beat KK."

True. But. up to and including that game, Waterford and Kilkenny had played each other only 14 times in the Championship; the first time being 1957."
Good point Cockney but still that was a 12 to one KK advantage and remember 59 was won on a replay- I remember the day well.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4317 - 28/07/2021 15:55:28    2365158

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Why did not he consult his umpires before he left the field or why did his umpires not draw his attention to the incident? I agree it was a sending off offence and I do not agree with people who try to get sending offs overturned.."
I don't know the ins and out of it. But do the refs leave the field of play with the umpires at half-time? Who actually drew the refs attention to the incident, and when? And why did ref wait for the teams to reappear before issuing the red card. Surely he could have knocked on the dressing room door during the half-time break and done it then.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2447 - 28/07/2021 15:55:31    2365159

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Replying To Canuck:  "The linesmen and the ref are miked to each other and obviously no immediate reaction. If the ref had dealt with Gleeson before he blew the half time whistle no problem. No challenge. If he had the courtesy to go Waterford and tell them they would have 14 players in the second half no problem. I will tell you what happened here. It was reaction to seeing Joe coming off holding his hand. Joe is not a faker but someone went and reported Joe was finished and been replaced because of the belt and then reversed or never going to happen. It was announced on t.v. The ref to take action needed someone to report it. He found an umpire who had seen something. This thing smelled from the start and I said it right at the time. I make no excuses for what Conor did to Joe but finding a way to deal with it on a specific occasion using retrospect is wrong. Or else use it all the time. Gleeson was subject to unequal discipline in 2017. Waterford are right to go and bat for him this time and have that right. Gleeson is not a dirty player at club or county. Equally active at the top level in both codes. He was guilty of a red card offence but is entitled to proper procedure and not punishment that other red card offences do not get."
Again you are speculating. Why does he have to have courtesy to the team that committed the offense?? He got proper procedure a red card. Gullane should have also got one also.
Just because gullane got away with it should not mean that Gleason does. The match is over so I don't understand what is to be gained ? The ref took his time, consulted with officials and came up with the right call. What's the problem ??

ecad123 (Galway) - Posts: 272 - 28/07/2021 16:34:35    2365182

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Good point Cockney but still that was a 12 to one KK advantage and remember 59 was won on a replay- I remember the day well."
I was to young to remember the 59 final, the 63 final (also against Waterford) being the first I have vague memories of. All sitting around watching it on the new telly. Then straight after the game, all us kids reenacting the game on the street. Ollie Walsh was my first sporting hero when I was a boy.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2447 - 28/07/2021 16:35:16    2365183

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "I don't know the ins and out of it. But do the refs leave the field of play with the umpires at half-time? Who actually drew the refs attention to the incident, and when? And why did ref wait for the teams to reappear before issuing the red card. Surely he could have knocked on the dressing room door during the half-time break and done it then."
That exactly is my point, a team was going to be playing with 14 men for 35/39 minutes, why give them a chance to organise- after all they would have got if the matter was dealt when it should have been.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4317 - 28/07/2021 17:26:00    2365197

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "I was to young to remember the 59 final, the 63 final (also against Waterford) being the first I have vague memories of. All sitting around watching it on the new telly. Then straight after the game, all us kids reenacting the game on the street. Ollie Walsh was my first sporting hero when I was a boy."
Kids all over the country-well at least the hurling country- did the same. lads often had mini fights over who 'would be Martin Og or Tom Cheasty'.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4317 - 28/07/2021 17:30:21    2365203

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Replying To ecad123:  "Again you are speculating. Why does he have to have courtesy to the team that committed the offense?? He got proper procedure a red card. Gullane should have also got one also.
Just because gullane got away with it should not mean that Gleason does. The match is over so I don't understand what is to be gained ? The ref took his time, consulted with officials and came up with the right call. What's the problem ??"
If the appeal fails and everything was done correctly, I have no pity for Conor Gleeson. If the appeal is up held because the sending off was not legally done under the rules then good for Waterford and Connor. It is admirable what John Mullane did but how many suspensions were turned over before and after. John did not get a medal for this but would have if he won the All-Ireland that year. Still commendable.
With regards consulting his officials from what I gather it was not officials it was one out of 7 saw anything but so be it if correct. (it was) So what is the value in consulting someone who saw nothing ? I will ask you a question ? If he should not show courtesy is it right that he should issue a third penalty in the form of springing it on Waterford to play with 14 men and don't tell me it is the same during the game as it is not ? During play they would have been expecting it and all ready making adjustment the minute the whistle goes.
Are you serious about what is to be gained ? A serious player in a panel that has multiple injuries. We can talk about the Donal Og's , McGrath, pundits and managers but all will stand up for their team passionately and sometimes when incorrect. John Kiely had to do some back flips this year already.Waterford are no different. Two weeks ago Steven Frampton complained that the assessors in the stand are putting two much pressure on refs. He was doing a gig on the line Sunday and will want the assessor to rescind the suspension.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 28/07/2021 17:46:54    2365208

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Replying To Canuck:  "If the appeal fails and everything was done correctly, I have no pity for Conor Gleeson. If the appeal is up held because the sending off was not legally done under the rules then good for Waterford and Connor. It is admirable what John Mullane did but how many suspensions were turned over before and after. John did not get a medal for this but would have if he won the All-Ireland that year. Still commendable.
With regards consulting his officials from what I gather it was not officials it was one out of 7 saw anything but so be it if correct. (it was) So what is the value in consulting someone who saw nothing ? I will ask you a question ? If he should not show courtesy is it right that he should issue a third penalty in the form of springing it on Waterford to play with 14 men and don't tell me it is the same during the game as it is not ? During play they would have been expecting it and all ready making adjustment the minute the whistle goes.
Are you serious about what is to be gained ? A serious player in a panel that has multiple injuries. We can talk about the Donal Og's , McGrath, pundits and managers but all will stand up for their team passionately and sometimes when incorrect. John Kiely had to do some back flips this year already.Waterford are no different. Two weeks ago Steven Frampton complained that the assessors in the stand are putting two much pressure on refs. He was doing a gig on the line Sunday and will want the assessor to rescind the suspension."
Again the red was a correct decision! You are questioning the timing of the red. The time of the red does not matter now as the game is over and ye got the result. I thought the ref done well took his time and came up with the proper decision, this has to be comended. The evidence is on camera and if he gets off it's a disgrace. What would this show to young people. These nasty dangerous belts have to be stopped before they become common and someone gets hurt.

ecad123 (Galway) - Posts: 272 - 28/07/2021 19:53:59    2365244

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "I don't know the ins and out of it. But do the refs leave the field of play with the umpires at half-time? Who actually drew the refs attention to the incident, and when? And why did ref wait for the teams to reappear before issuing the red card. Surely he could have knocked on the dressing room door during the half-time break and done it then."
Dont see why he couldnt

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11734 - 28/07/2021 21:02:24    2365269

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Congratulations Cork on a lovely win in the u20s tonight!
Galway v Cork All Ireland u20 Final....we have it all to do to try win that game!

katser (Galway) - Posts: 2193 - 28/07/2021 21:17:31    2365281

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Replying To ecad123:  "Again the red was a correct decision! You are questioning the timing of the red. The time of the red does not matter now as the game is over and ye got the result. I thought the ref done well took his time and came up with the proper decision, this has to be comended. The evidence is on camera and if he gets off it's a disgrace. What would this show to young people. These nasty dangerous belts have to be stopped before they become common and someone gets hurt."
It is funny you should mention the effect on young people. At the 2017 final I was sitting practically on the end line with my brother and his grandson. We were among some great Galway fans. The ref was in the middle getting ready to throw in the ball. A Galway player stepped up proceeded to beat Coughlan across the thigh. He then crossed over and did the same to Noel Connors with the umpires watching. You know part of the old softening up process. It was so obvious that the child asked why is he hitting those players. I can tell you these fine Galway fans were as disgusted as we were. Maybe the occasion got to the umpires like everyone else but I guarantee you if either retaliated we would be down to 14. Galway won we were disappointed and congratulated the Galway fans. They commiserated with us and wished us well. My point here is what is a disgrace is in the eye of the beholder and none of us can afford to put ourselves on a moral statue. Everyone that plays for Waterford or Galway are not angels.
Incidentally Connors was impeded from the effect of it but no crutches or excuses Galway won deservingly.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 28/07/2021 21:26:45    2365285

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Replying To Viking66:  "Dont see why he couldnt"
OMG my heart goes out to the Wexford Minors tonight....what a sicking defeat! I was sure it would be Galway v Wexford in the All Ireland Semi Final!
Its Galway v Kilkenny instead :( We will try beat them for a 5th year in a row!

katser (Galway) - Posts: 2193 - 28/07/2021 21:31:00    2365288

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "That exactly is my point, a team was going to be playing with 14 men for 35/39 minutes, why give them a chance to organise- after all they would have got if the matter was dealt when it should have been."
The referee should not have left the field of play when there was a player lying injured on the ground,it was part of the referees duty of care to check and find out what happened there and then and check on the players injury.When Joe was coming off at ht carrying his arm in a makeshift sling from his jersey he looked to have a seriously injured arm and the commentators interpreted it as that.It looks like the referee might have been influenced by the perceived seriousness of Joes injury.I really was surprised to see Joe appearing for the second half and him seemingly with nothing wrong with the arm that we feared was seriously injured the way he was carrying it going off at half time.This may indeed be a moot point as is was a red card offence but was the referee influenced by the perceived seriousness of the inury as there may not have been any clear view of it by linesmen or umpires.If there was they would surely have immediately drawn the referees attention to it.If that is so the referee ignored it or more likely nobody saw it except the cameras.There are a lot if questions to be answered here.On what grounds did the referee issue a red card,when did he become aware of the incident and by what means?Is the referee entitled to issue a red card if neither he or his officials saw the incident and only issued the red card having come by knowledge of the incident from another source?The Waterford player, team and officials and supporters are fully entitled to know all the facts here.

ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 28/07/2021 21:40:40    2365292

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Replying To ONdeDITCH:  "The referee should not have left the field of play when there was a player lying injured on the ground,it was part of the referees duty of care to check and find out what happened there and then and check on the players injury.When Joe was coming off at ht carrying his arm in a makeshift sling from his jersey he looked to have a seriously injured arm and the commentators interpreted it as that.It looks like the referee might have been influenced by the perceived seriousness of Joes injury.I really was surprised to see Joe appearing for the second half and him seemingly with nothing wrong with the arm that we feared was seriously injured the way he was carrying it going off at half time.This may indeed be a moot point as is was a red card offence but was the referee influenced by the perceived seriousness of the inury as there may not have been any clear view of it by linesmen or umpires.If there was they would surely have immediately drawn the referees attention to it.If that is so the referee ignored it or more likely nobody saw it except the cameras.There are a lot if questions to be answered here.On what grounds did the referee issue a red card,when did he become aware of the incident and by what means?Is the referee entitled to issue a red card if neither he or his officials saw the incident and only issued the red card having come by knowledge of the incident from another source?The Waterford player, team and officials and supporters are fully entitled to know all the facts here."
Exactly. Excellant post.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4317 - 28/07/2021 22:04:51    2365305

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Replying To ONdeDITCH:  "The referee should not have left the field of play when there was a player lying injured on the ground,it was part of the referees duty of care to check and find out what happened there and then and check on the players injury.When Joe was coming off at ht carrying his arm in a makeshift sling from his jersey he looked to have a seriously injured arm and the commentators interpreted it as that.It looks like the referee might have been influenced by the perceived seriousness of Joes injury.I really was surprised to see Joe appearing for the second half and him seemingly with nothing wrong with the arm that we feared was seriously injured the way he was carrying it going off at half time.This may indeed be a moot point as is was a red card offence but was the referee influenced by the perceived seriousness of the inury as there may not have been any clear view of it by linesmen or umpires.If there was they would surely have immediately drawn the referees attention to it.If that is so the referee ignored it or more likely nobody saw it except the cameras.There are a lot if questions to be answered here.On what grounds did the referee issue a red card,when did he become aware of the incident and by what means?Is the referee entitled to issue a red card if neither he or his officials saw the incident and only issued the red card having come by knowledge of the incident from another source?The Waterford player, team and officials and supporters are fully entitled to know all the facts here."
Very fair and accurate assessment. No denying Gleeson hit Joe and a red card (that might not always get called) did not occur there and then. What transpired after is not clear. How such a perceived injury led to it being announced him been replaced but not actually happening and Gleeson's dismissal 15 minutes later. I say it again this has a smell off it but I will not cast any reflections on Joe Canning but suspicious someone else decided to make hay. I would like to know who got to who and how the decision was arrived at and hopefully that is not some trunked up story about an umpire seeing it. If it is all above board great if not remove the game suspension off Gleeson.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 28/07/2021 22:44:23    2365323

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Replying To katser:  "OMG my heart goes out to the Wexford Minors tonight....what a sicking defeat! I was sure it would be Galway v Wexford in the All Ireland Semi Final!
Its Galway v Kilkenny instead :( We will try beat them for a 5th year in a row!"
"OMG my heart goes out"? The only thing that 'goes out' of you is bile and b******t.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2447 - 28/07/2021 23:32:20    2365331

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Replying To katser:  "OMG my heart goes out to the Wexford Minors tonight....what a sicking defeat! I was sure it would be Galway v Wexford in the All Ireland Semi Final!
Its Galway v Kilkenny instead :( We will try beat them for a 5th year in a row!"
Thank you to Galway for the public service exercise in showing everyone that minor and u21 titles are meaningless when it comes to senior. Would ye not go way out there and pick up a few empty bottles and papers off the ground and try and win the tidy towns or the turf footing for Galway now that ye are gone from both senior codes in short order.

stpats1886 (Limerick) - Posts: 39 - 29/07/2021 04:45:03    2365348

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Replying To katser:  "Congratulations Cork on a lovely win in the u20s tonight!
Galway v Cork All Ireland u20 Final....we have it all to do to try win that game!"
Ye'd probably have a lot more to do if we had come through, considering we have beaten Galway in 6 out of our last 7 meetings at this grade. Congratulations to a grand Cork side on a fine win in a titanic struggle.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4317 - 29/07/2021 09:17:41    2365366

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