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Football Championship 2021

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Replying To Rebel2020:  "You aren't taking dual counties into account. The likes of Westmeath and Laois are outperforming Roscommon and Monaghan if you take GAA as a whole."
I would say you are overstating what being a Dual county is.
Most clubs tend to be either hurling clubs or football clubs. Very few promote both equally.

Most counties are then split into hurling areas and football areas - usually split by quality of the land in the parish.

Only a few Dual clubs like Slaughtneil actually seem to be able to promote both sports equally.

When you take the effect of that regional dual split in each county and allow for the %of Unionists in a county, you'll still find that the likes of Cork are grossly under performing and The likes of Monaghan are over achieving.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 873 - 27/07/2021 04:12:26    2364551

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "Weaker counties are one thing

Badly run counties are another

A lot of counties have a decent population but are badly run and badly organised. Below is the list of counties by population

Roscommon, Monaghan and kerry are serial over achievers

Based on population Dublin (bar the last 10 years) Derry, Galway, Limerick, Kildare, Louth and Wicklow are serial underachievers

Dublin
Antrim
Cork
Down
Derry
Galway
Limerick
Kildare
Tyrone
Tipperary
Donegal
Meath
Kerry
Armagh
Mayo
Wexford
Wicklow
Clare
Louth
Waterford
Kilkenny
Westmeath
Offaly
Laois
Sligo
Cavan
Fermanagh
Roscommon
Monaghan
Carlow
Longford
Leitrim

Even taking all the inherent population imbalance into account
Every county can at least try to be more like Monaghan or Kerry (can't bring myself to write Roscommon here) in the way the organise and prepare their teams.
Do that and get the GAA to organise a competition which gives each county the same number of games per season and we are at least giving counties a chance to perform at their best - even if that best might not be good enough."
Antrim, Down and Derry on list is meaningless as a significant portion of their population do not and will never play GAA.

Rockies (Cork) - Posts: 657 - 27/07/2021 09:25:30    2364568

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "I would say you are overstating what being a Dual county is.
Most clubs tend to be either hurling clubs or football clubs. Very few promote both equally.

Most counties are then split into hurling areas and football areas - usually split by quality of the land in the parish.

Only a few Dual clubs like Slaughtneil actually seem to be able to promote both sports equally.

When you take the effect of that regional dual split in each county and allow for the %of Unionists in a county, you'll still find that the likes of Cork are grossly under performing and The likes of Monaghan are over achieving."
There are only a couple of clubs in Wexford dont field teams in both codes. And it definitely hurts the intercounty teams. But at least its staying true to the founding principles of the GAA.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3211 - 27/07/2021 10:30:55    2364594

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "I would say you are overstating what being a Dual county is.
Most clubs tend to be either hurling clubs or football clubs. Very few promote both equally.

Most counties are then split into hurling areas and football areas - usually split by quality of the land in the parish.

Only a few Dual clubs like Slaughtneil actually seem to be able to promote both sports equally.

When you take the effect of that regional dual split in each county and allow for the %of Unionists in a county, you'll still find that the likes of Cork are grossly under performing and The likes of Monaghan are over achieving."
There are only a couple of clubs in Wexford dont field teams in both codes. And it definitely hurts the intercounty teams. But at least its staying true to the founding principles of the GAA.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3211 - 27/07/2021 10:39:14    2364601

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "Weaker counties are one thing

Badly run counties are another

A lot of counties have a decent population but are badly run and badly organised. Below is the list of counties by population

Roscommon, Monaghan and kerry are serial over achievers

Based on population Dublin (bar the last 10 years) Derry, Galway, Limerick, Kildare, Louth and Wicklow are serial underachievers

Dublin
Antrim
Cork
Down
Derry
Galway
Limerick
Kildare
Tyrone
Tipperary
Donegal
Meath
Kerry
Armagh
Mayo
Wexford
Wicklow
Clare
Louth
Waterford
Kilkenny
Westmeath
Offaly
Laois
Sligo
Cavan
Fermanagh
Roscommon
Monaghan
Carlow
Longford
Leitrim

Even taking all the inherent population imbalance into account
Every county can at least try to be more like Monaghan or Kerry (can't bring myself to write Roscommon here) in the way the organise and prepare their teams.
Do that and get the GAA to organise a competition which gives each county the same number of games per season and we are at least giving counties a chance to perform at their best - even if that best might not be good enough."
Silly list when you didn't take into account the number of people in the North of Ireland that kick with the other foot.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 902 - 27/07/2021 13:21:32    2364692

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Silly list when you didn't take into account the number of people in the North of Ireland that kick with the other foot."
Hopefully clubs like the new one in East Belfast will help change that in time.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3211 - 27/07/2021 13:35:34    2364700

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Replying To Viking66:  "Hopefully clubs like the new one in East Belfast will help change that in time."
You obviously don't know much about the north, not a hope in hell they will ever embrace anything Irish or Gaelic.
Even here in Donegal the other side of the house shun anything to do with the GAA. then of course we have our own soccer crowd here in Donegal who hate anything GAA, they'd rather support Celtic and fly a tricolour in Glasgow for some reason, if we were all pulling together we might have a chance but as it is a population count tells you nothing.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 1770 - 27/07/2021 13:49:31    2364708

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "You obviously don't know much about the north, not a hope in hell they will ever embrace anything Irish or Gaelic.
Even here in Donegal the other side of the house shun anything to do with the GAA. then of course we have our own soccer crowd here in Donegal who hate anything GAA, they'd rather support Celtic and fly a tricolour in Glasgow for some reason, if we were all pulling together we might have a chance but as it is a population count tells you nothing."
As a student at Queens in the early 90s I drove a taxi for 2 depots in and around the New Lodge Road and Ardoyne to pay my way. Several friends working for these depots got shot at and 1 got hit in the head. I stayed working in Belfast for nearly 2 years after I graduated and then lived in Coalisland for nearly a year. If I can still hope for better for the people of the 6 counties I dont see why you have given up.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3211 - 27/07/2021 15:06:24    2364747

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "You obviously don't know much about the north, not a hope in hell they will ever embrace anything Irish or Gaelic.
Even here in Donegal the other side of the house shun anything to do with the GAA. then of course we have our own soccer crowd here in Donegal who hate anything GAA, they'd rather support Celtic and fly a tricolour in Glasgow for some reason, if we were all pulling together we might have a chance but as it is a population count tells you nothing."
As a student at Queens in the early 90s I drove a taxi for 2 depots in and around the New Lodge Road and Ardoyne to pay my way. Several friends working for these depots got shot at and 1 got hit in the head. I stayed working in Belfast for nearly 2 years after I graduated and then lived in Coalisland for nearly a year. If I can still hope for better for the people of the 6 counties I dont see why you have given up.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3211 - 27/07/2021 15:07:10    2364748

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "You obviously don't know much about the north, not a hope in hell they will ever embrace anything Irish or Gaelic.
Even here in Donegal the other side of the house shun anything to do with the GAA. then of course we have our own soccer crowd here in Donegal who hate anything GAA, they'd rather support Celtic and fly a tricolour in Glasgow for some reason, if we were all pulling together we might have a chance but as it is a population count tells you nothing."
And sad to hear soccer and GAA are mutually exclusive still in Donegal. Friends of mine who are 10 years older than me remember the dark days in Wexford when their clubs didnt pick them because they played soccer. Many very good footballers and hurlers were lost to the GAA because of this pathetic attitude. Thankfully that sort of nonsense doesnt seem to happen any more down here.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3211 - 27/07/2021 15:16:27    2364755

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1 Dublin 1,345,402
2 Antrim 618,108
3 Cork 542,868
4 Down 531,665
- Fingal 296,020
- South Dublin 278,767
5 Galway 258,058
6 Londonderry 247,132
7 Kildare 222,504
- Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown 218,018
8 Meath 195,044
9 Limerick 194,899
10 Tyrone 179,000
11 Armagh 174,792
12 Tipperary 159,553
13 Donegal 159,192
14 Wexford 149,722
15 Kerry 147,707
16 Wicklow 142,425
17 Mayo 130,507
18 Louth 128,884
19 Clare 118,817
20 Waterford 116,176
21 Kilkenny 99,232
22 Westmeath 88,770
23 Laois 84,697
24 Offaly 77,961
25 Cavan 76,176
26 Sligo 65,535
27 Roscommon 64,544
28 Monaghan 61,386
29 Fermanagh 61,170
30 Carlow 56,932
31 Longford 40,873
32 Leitrim 32,044
Here's the proper list as per census 2016, going by this antrim even if you half the population are massive underachievers along with kildare who always had a big population, kerry are pound for pound the best achieving county in ireland considering they have a half decent hurling team too, other notable mentions are kilkenny Roscommon monaghan Cavan and Fermanagh, looking at the population of meath we should be doing allot better at present and hopefully we will learn to turn our large population to our advantage.

Royal.Legend (Meath) - Posts: 521 - 27/07/2021 16:55:51    2364795

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Replying To Viking66:  "And sad to hear soccer and GAA are mutually exclusive still in Donegal. Friends of mine who are 10 years older than me remember the dark days in Wexford when their clubs didnt pick them because they played soccer. Many very good footballers and hurlers were lost to the GAA because of this pathetic attitude. Thankfully that sort of nonsense doesnt seem to happen any more down here."
Have friends from Belfast and Dublin who still shun GAA . Not because of any politics, just they would rather support Liverpool than follow GAA . Happens in Cork too.., mainly in city ... premiership interest is massive! I guess it's an international game whereas the GAA is viewed as very provincial and archaic!

Rockies (Cork) - Posts: 657 - 27/07/2021 17:35:07    2364809

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Replying To Royal.Legend:  "1 Dublin 1,345,402
2 Antrim 618,108
3 Cork 542,868
4 Down 531,665
- Fingal 296,020
- South Dublin 278,767
5 Galway 258,058
6 Londonderry 247,132
7 Kildare 222,504
- Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown 218,018
8 Meath 195,044
9 Limerick 194,899
10 Tyrone 179,000
11 Armagh 174,792
12 Tipperary 159,553
13 Donegal 159,192
14 Wexford 149,722
15 Kerry 147,707
16 Wicklow 142,425
17 Mayo 130,507
18 Louth 128,884
19 Clare 118,817
20 Waterford 116,176
21 Kilkenny 99,232
22 Westmeath 88,770
23 Laois 84,697
24 Offaly 77,961
25 Cavan 76,176
26 Sligo 65,535
27 Roscommon 64,544
28 Monaghan 61,386
29 Fermanagh 61,170
30 Carlow 56,932
31 Longford 40,873
32 Leitrim 32,044
Here's the proper list as per census 2016, going by this antrim even if you half the population are massive underachievers along with kildare who always had a big population, kerry are pound for pound the best achieving county in ireland considering they have a half decent hurling team too, other notable mentions are kilkenny Roscommon monaghan Cavan and Fermanagh, looking at the population of meath we should be doing allot better at present and hopefully we will learn to turn our large population to our advantage."
A problem for Kildare and Meath and Wicklow is a good proportion of the population work in Dublin. Our lads have training at 6 or 7 and many parents in those counties are probably not even home from work at that time. Likewise alot of Wexford people work in construction and for years this was largely Dublin based work. The big jump in our population this millenium includes many new estates in the North of the county where alot of the residents commute to Dublin.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3211 - 27/07/2021 17:35:55    2364810

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Replying To Viking66:  "As a student at Queens in the early 90s I drove a taxi for 2 depots in and around the New Lodge Road and Ardoyne to pay my way. Several friends working for these depots got shot at and 1 got hit in the head. I stayed working in Belfast for nearly 2 years after I graduated and then lived in Coalisland for nearly a year. If I can still hope for better for the people of the 6 counties I dont see why you have given up."
I don't see what relevance your driving a taxi round Belfast has to the fact that the protestant/unionists will never embrace the GAA,
ok you'll have the exceptions butt he vast vast majority have a british identity, the soccer crowd here are a bit mixed but there's a big majority of them that are anti GAA too, it's a bit strange tbh.
Even when Donegal were winning the All ireland they were begrudging, but you had the usual few hopping on the bandwagon.
The population head counting really tells you nothing until you break it down into a sectarian head count.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 1770 - 27/07/2021 18:45:28    2364836

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Replying To waynoI:  "Galway were 16 pts down in the hurling yesterday and showed a bit about them to get back into it, they failed but at least they didnt just accept their fate and fought til the death and gave Waterford a bit of a fright. What is Corks excuse?

These traditional teams like Cork and to a lesser extent this year in fairness to the, Meath, have been routinely getting absolutely toyed with for the best part of 10 years against the Dublins and Kerry's. It doesnt happen in Ulster cause the Ulster teams dont stand for that carry on.

It's not money, it's not population, it's not tradition.... it's old fashioned guts and grit and not accepting this sh8t. Make teams feel uncomfortable being in the pitch even if you're not as good. Not having it that cork are 20+ pts worse than kerry. They just have a rotten attitude and until teams are willing to get stuck in and make life difficult for the top teams then we will continue to have these absolute borefests.

Grim."
Absolutely,, I don't care what anyone says about resources, systems, tiers, funding gaps etc etc,, Cork football is better than what they showed last Sunday.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 936 - 27/07/2021 19:18:44    2364844

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "I don't see what relevance your driving a taxi round Belfast has to the fact that the protestant/unionists will never embrace the GAA,
ok you'll have the exceptions butt he vast vast majority have a british identity, the soccer crowd here are a bit mixed but there's a big majority of them that are anti GAA too, it's a bit strange tbh.
Even when Donegal were winning the All ireland they were begrudging, but you had the usual few hopping on the bandwagon.
The population head counting really tells you nothing until you break it down into a sectarian head count."
Galway City is terrible for it,, know people who'll argue forever and a day how proud they are to be irish but they seem to despise almost everything that's uniquely irish.
If football and hurling were British sports they'd probably start watching them.
I like most sports but how anyone could turn their back on a well contested hurling or football game to instead watch formula one or a Premier league gane I'll never know.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 936 - 27/07/2021 19:28:24    2364848

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "I don't see what relevance your driving a taxi round Belfast has to the fact that the protestant/unionists will never embrace the GAA,
ok you'll have the exceptions butt he vast vast majority have a british identity, the soccer crowd here are a bit mixed but there's a big majority of them that are anti GAA too, it's a bit strange tbh.
Even when Donegal were winning the All ireland they were begrudging, but you had the usual few hopping on the bandwagon.
The population head counting really tells you nothing until you break it down into a sectarian head count."
You started the post I replied to by saying I obviously knew nothing about the north. I was just pointing out to you that I did. I've numerous friends in the north predominantly republican but some loyalist small l and some nationalist small n. I've some protestant friends who would see themselves as British and some who see themselves as Irish. The point I was trying to make was that little steps make a big journey. Football and especially Hurling are great sports in their own right. People like you politicising them will ensure they never grow in the North. I could get into a long political debate with you but I'm not going to. This is a sports forum.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3211 - 27/07/2021 20:10:36    2364863

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "I don't see what relevance your driving a taxi round Belfast has to the fact that the protestant/unionists will never embrace the GAA,
ok you'll have the exceptions butt he vast vast majority have a british identity, the soccer crowd here are a bit mixed but there's a big majority of them that are anti GAA too, it's a bit strange tbh.
Even when Donegal were winning the All ireland they were begrudging, but you had the usual few hopping on the bandwagon.
The population head counting really tells you nothing until you break it down into a sectarian head count."
You started the post I replied to by saying I obviously knew nothing about the north. I was just pointing out to you that I did. I've numerous friends in the north predominantly republican but some loyalist small l and some nationalist small n. I've some protestant friends who would see themselves as British and some who see themselves as Irish. The point I was trying to make was that little steps make a big journey. Football and especially Hurling are great sports in their own right. People like you politicising them will ensure they never grow in the North. I could get into a long political debate with you but I'm not going to. This is a sports forum.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3211 - 27/07/2021 20:11:20    2364864

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "Weaker counties are one thing

Badly run counties are another

A lot of counties have a decent population but are badly run and badly organised. Below is the list of counties by population

Roscommon, Monaghan and kerry are serial over achievers

Based on population Dublin (bar the last 10 years) Derry, Galway, Limerick, Kildare, Louth and Wicklow are serial underachievers

Dublin
Antrim
Cork
Down
Derry
Galway
Limerick
Kildare
Tyrone
Tipperary
Donegal
Meath
Kerry
Armagh
Mayo
Wexford
Wicklow
Clare
Louth
Waterford
Kilkenny
Westmeath
Offaly
Laois
Sligo
Cavan
Fermanagh
Roscommon
Monaghan
Carlow
Longford
Leitrim

Even taking all the inherent population imbalance into account
Every county can at least try to be more like Monaghan or Kerry (can't bring myself to write Roscommon here) in the way the organise and prepare their teams.
Do that and get the GAA to organise a competition which gives each county the same number of games per season and we are at least giving counties a chance to perform at their best - even if that best might not be good enough."
tirawleybaron (Mayo), - I appreciate your concern but unfortunately the situation is much more complexed than the average critic thinks, I do agree with you on the theory that "Weaker counties are one thing, Badly run counties are another" however it's my theory that, if a county is badly run over a long period of time then that in itself will make a county weak, of that I have no doubt, then the smaller the population the bigger the problem.

Believe it or not the Media have a massive part to play in the success or failure of any county, including how sport is fostered, presented, featured and analysed on Radio / TV, or not, for that matter, the bias that's there is very obvious and very unfair. What's broken in the current system is beyond fixing, so a tweak here and a tweak there etc, etc, etc.

Young people are not going to buy into a system that doesn't at least send out positive vibes, empty promises won't get any young person to buy into a broken system.

Anyway and more importantly good luck to you and Mayo in your quest for Sam.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2463 - 27/07/2021 20:38:53    2364870

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Replying To Viking66:  "A problem for Kildare and Meath and Wicklow is a good proportion of the population work in Dublin. Our lads have training at 6 or 7 and many parents in those counties are probably not even home from work at that time. Likewise alot of Wexford people work in construction and for years this was largely Dublin based work. The big jump in our population this millenium includes many new estates in the North of the county where alot of the residents commute to Dublin."
Clubs in South East meath have never had as many kids involved in there clubs, the pitches in ratoath Ashbourne Enfield dunboyne and dunshaughlin are packed every weekend with kids, some age groups would have 60 kids involved, it's bound to make a difference at some stage and I'm sure it's the same in kildare wicklow and wexford, it just takes time.

Royal.Legend (Meath) - Posts: 521 - 27/07/2021 20:55:43    2364878

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