National Forum

2021 Rankings So Far

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Replying To BaldyBadger:  "This is a waste of time. Mayo got to the All Ireland final and have consistently been the closest to Dublin over the past 10 years or so. First of all, people on here put too much credence on League, and secondly, Dublin were the only Division 1 team in the all ireland semi finals last year. Two of those are now in division 4.
You say all of division 2 would not have got near the top two. Well I'd say based on evidence of recent seasons, Mayo are the only team in division 1 & 2 likely to be competitive against them. Mayo at number 3 at least, until after championship."
Correct in your overall point. A Limerick poster putting Galway and Cork ahead of Limerick in hurling rankings on the basis of a couple of slightly competitive league games !! We all know Limerick are no.1 right now and that won't change unless/ until they are knocked out of the championship.
What you say about Mayo is true but this is the year to write them off...they'll not be reaching the All Ireland semi final this year especially considering the injuries they've picked up.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1593 - 16/06/2021 09:26:56    2351348

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My favourite ranking table is https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057173179&page=69, as it's based on stats and outcomes rather than finger in the air feelings. This is how the teams stood after NFL Round 3. (the latest table hasn't been published yet).

One of the downsides of this model, perhaps, is that it takes a longer term view, with rankings based over several competitions. Though the argument could be made that this helps smooth out any immediate 'form' based misconceptions.

I think this is a solid indicator of current overall rankings, but not so good as a predictor of results for any given match up. And isn't that why we enjoy sport so much in any case?

# Δ Rank Team
1 = Dublin
2 ▲1 Mayo
3 ▼-1 Kerry
4 = Donegal
5 = Tyrone
6 = Galway
7 ▲1 Meath
8 ▼-1 Cavan
9 = Armagh
10 = Roscommon
11 ▲1 Cork
12 ▼-1 Monaghan
13 ▲1 Kildare
14 ▲1 Derry
15 ▼-2 Clare
16 ▲3 Down
17 = Westmeath
18 ▼-2 Tipperary
19 ▼-1 Laois
20 = Offaly
21 = Longford
22 = Fermanagh
23 ▲1 Limerick
24 ▼-1 Antrim
25 ▲1 Louth
26 ▲1 Carlow
27 ▼-2 Wicklow
28 ▲1 Leitrim
29 ▼-1 Sligo
30 = Wexford
31 = Waterford
32 = New York
33 = London.

TearsIn85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 120 - 16/06/2021 09:50:35    2351353

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Paddypower rankings and he s the moneymaker. 1.Dublin 2.Kerry.4.Mayo 4.Donegal 5.Tyrone. 6.Galway 7.Cork 8.Monaghan 9.Armagh and 10.Kildare"
Paddy Power knows the real rankings!

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1593 - 16/06/2021 10:16:00    2351364

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Replying To Donegal_abroad:  "It could be because I would rate Mayo above Donegal currently until Donegal can actually make the final again and deliver on their potential."
Oh Dear. I reply to the poster who created this thread and I point out there are some users with more than one account and now you, a totally different username are replying to me ? Oh dear.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7290 - 16/06/2021 11:01:43    2351374

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1.Dublin

2.Kerry
3.Mayo
4.Donegal

5.Tyrone
6.Armagh
7.Monaghan
8.Galway
9.Roscommon
10.Kildare
11.Meath
12.Clare
13.Cork

sourmilk93 (Roscommon) - Posts: 744 - 16/06/2021 11:03:15    2351376

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Bit of a pointless thread but anyway, I have Dublin at number 1 obviously, Kerry are very strong 2nd and then maybe 6 or 7 teams that could beat each other depending on which day it is, not much point ranking them one above the other as in my opinion there's not much in it,
For me the only Provincial that's really interesting is Ulster, Connacht is between Mayo and Galway, Kerry for Munster and the Dubs will walk Leinster as usual.
Ulster very hard to call, I was favouring Tyrone but not convinced either after Killarney, Donegal have the potential to win it but we had that last year too and made a hames of it, and Monaghan and Armagh have potential on the other side to beat anyone too, going to be very interesting few weeks here in the north of Ireland.
Kerry v Dublin final could be a cracker if it happens.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 1735 - 16/06/2021 11:12:18    2351379

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The problem with rankings is you are only as good as your next game.

In reality any team from 3rd to 10th could beat each other on any given day so rankings aren't really indicative of anything important.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 3962 - 16/06/2021 11:38:32    2351385

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "Bit of a pointless thread but anyway, I have Dublin at number 1 obviously, Kerry are very strong 2nd and then maybe 6 or 7 teams that could beat each other depending on which day it is, not much point ranking them one above the other as in my opinion there's not much in it,
For me the only Provincial that's really interesting is Ulster, Connacht is between Mayo and Galway, Kerry for Munster and the Dubs will walk Leinster as usual.
Ulster very hard to call, I was favouring Tyrone but not convinced either after Killarney, Donegal have the potential to win it but we had that last year too and made a hames of it, and Monaghan and Armagh have potential on the other side to beat anyone too, going to be very interesting few weeks here in the north of Ireland.
Kerry v Dublin final could be a cracker if it happens."
I would agree with most of that. Kerry best placed to take them down. I would have Mayo number 3 because I still think they have the strongest running game, even better than Kerry. But also agree that Donegal or Tyrone on their day could beat Mayo if they don't get moving early.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7290 - 16/06/2021 12:21:30    2351391

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "Bit of a pointless thread but anyway, I have Dublin at number 1 obviously, Kerry are very strong 2nd and then maybe 6 or 7 teams that could beat each other depending on which day it is, not much point ranking them one above the other as in my opinion there's not much in it,
For me the only Provincial that's really interesting is Ulster, Connacht is between Mayo and Galway, Kerry for Munster and the Dubs will walk Leinster as usual.
Ulster very hard to call, I was favouring Tyrone but not convinced either after Killarney, Donegal have the potential to win it but we had that last year too and made a hames of it, and Monaghan and Armagh have potential on the other side to beat anyone too, going to be very interesting few weeks here in the north of Ireland.
Kerry v Dublin final could be a cracker if it happens."
Would the neutrals want a Dublin/Kerry final or a Dublin/Donegal final? Kerry are, at the best of times, difficult to watch, especially against Dublin when they play puke football. The game entails Kerry breaking after defending/watching Dublin pass the ball laterally across the pitch for 3-4 mins. Donegal Dublin will be full throttle and in my opinion would be a better final. Obviously I'm biased as well but what do the neutrals think?

MurphBalls (Donegal) - Posts: 109 - 16/06/2021 12:36:38    2351395

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Replying To TearsIn85:  "My favourite ranking table is https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057173179&page=69, as it's based on stats and outcomes rather than finger in the air feelings. This is how the teams stood after NFL Round 3. (the latest table hasn't been published yet).

One of the downsides of this model, perhaps, is that it takes a longer term view, with rankings based over several competitions. Though the argument could be made that this helps smooth out any immediate 'form' based misconceptions.

I think this is a solid indicator of current overall rankings, but not so good as a predictor of results for any given match up. And isn't that why we enjoy sport so much in any case?

# Δ Rank Team
1 = Dublin
2 ▲1 Mayo
3 ▼-1 Kerry
4 = Donegal
5 = Tyrone
6 = Galway
7 ▲1 Meath
8 ▼-1 Cavan
9 = Armagh
10 = Roscommon
11 ▲1 Cork
12 ▼-1 Monaghan
13 ▲1 Kildare
14 ▲1 Derry
15 ▼-2 Clare
16 ▲3 Down
17 = Westmeath
18 ▼-2 Tipperary
19 ▼-1 Laois
20 = Offaly
21 = Longford
22 = Fermanagh
23 ▲1 Limerick
24 ▼-1 Antrim
25 ▲1 Louth
26 ▲1 Carlow
27 ▼-2 Wicklow
28 ▲1 Leitrim
29 ▼-1 Sligo
30 = Wexford
31 = Waterford
32 = New York
33 = London."
Well the problem for those statistics I would think is they are over a 12 month period.The thread is about 2021.I mean no disrespect to the teams im naming but Cavan are rated number 8 which could nt be right and Meath are ranked above Armagh.The bookies will give the closest rankings at the present time as they are the ones that are putting their money where their mouths are.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 2687 - 16/06/2021 12:40:19    2351398

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Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "Paddy Power knows the real rankings!"
Exactly PoolSturgeon.Money talks and B S walks.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 2687 - 16/06/2021 12:42:00    2351400

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Replying To MurphBalls:  "Would the neutrals want a Dublin/Kerry final or a Dublin/Donegal final? Kerry are, at the best of times, difficult to watch, especially against Dublin when they play puke football. The game entails Kerry breaking after defending/watching Dublin pass the ball laterally across the pitch for 3-4 mins. Donegal Dublin will be full throttle and in my opinion would be a better final. Obviously I'm biased as well but what do the neutrals think?"
I don't know what the neutrals think but like you im biased so id love to see Kerry in a final.Who are you for? On another post recently you said Donegal and Kerry s game in the super 8 s was the best game played in years and now you say Kerry are hard to watch especially v Dublin.Kerry actually outscored Dublin big time in the league game but maybe that's what bothered you.I like reading other county threads from time to time but never seem to see you on the Donegal thread.You seem to have a gripe with Kerry and maybe that's why you fancied Tyrone to beat them.You also seem to have a gripe with Mayo.So I take it you want Dublin in final but definitely not against Kerry or Mayo (although that cant happen this year).Funny thing though is the best finals Dublin played in were against Mayo and Kerry.I wonder!

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 2687 - 16/06/2021 13:45:01    2351413

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Mayo without C O Connor and maybe his brother D for the rest of year will put them well down the list.

jacktheboy (Donegal) - Posts: 155 - 16/06/2021 14:21:58    2351429

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Dublin still well ahead
Kerry would be second
Mayo, Donegal, Tyrone same level
Galway, Roscommon, Monaghan, Armagh, Meath, Kildare same level..Im probably leaving few out that should be there

Kerry best equipped to be Dublin's biggest threat, they have a more attacking system in place and the players to execute it, but the biggest thing they have going for them is the embarrassment from last year, which is a great motivational tool.

Donegal have good footballers, all action but to inconsistent with scoring and lacking a full back line, goalkeeper isn't to confident under the high ball.
Tyrone dont seem to know what system there trying to play, will take a year or 2 for them to change.
Mayo used to have arguably, the best defence or individual defenders, in the country, but now they are struggling in the full back line. Brendan Harrison played half a match for the club last weekend and now with Cillian O Connor seemingly out for the year, it could next year they give it a right go. Without Cillian I dont think they will win Connacht this year

tommy132 (Mayo) - Posts: 485 - 16/06/2021 15:00:39    2351440

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "I don't know what the neutrals think but like you im biased so id love to see Kerry in a final.Who are you for? On another post recently you said Donegal and Kerry s game in the super 8 s was the best game played in years and now you say Kerry are hard to watch especially v Dublin.Kerry actually outscored Dublin big time in the league game but maybe that's what bothered you.I like reading other county threads from time to time but never seem to see you on the Donegal thread.You seem to have a gripe with Kerry and maybe that's why you fancied Tyrone to beat them.You also seem to have a gripe with Mayo.So I take it you want Dublin in final but definitely not against Kerry or Mayo (although that cant happen this year).Funny thing though is the best finals Dublin played in were against Mayo and Kerry.I wonder!"
Yes in 2019 both Donegal and Kerry put on a spectacle by going man for man and all out attack, more or less. Since then Kerry have resorted to what is terrible to watch. You only had to watch Dublin V Kerry in the league to see that. It was one of the worst games of the league yet people are saying it was a great game. Dublin played horribly and still managed a draw. You could say Donegal are the team that now play "Total Football". Is it just me or is Kerry's playing style something that Pat Spillane once would have demanded his 27 Euro back for? What was once puke football is now described as a defensive masterclass by the man himself. O'Connor mentions in the Jimmys Winning Matches documentary that if he had played the kind of football Donegal did then he wouldn't be long out of a job in Kerry. It's funny how the media can manipulate peoples minds because Kerry aren't far away from playing that Shiyad football.

I don't have a gripe with anyone except for the fact that people buy into this media hype of Kerry. I don't understand it! People are certain that Kerry are a solidified number 2 behind Dublin. Personally, I think any of Donegal, Mayo, Tyrone, and potentially Armagh and Monaghan would have no bother facing up against Kerry. Kerry have been balls to the walls in this years league whereas other teams have been blooding new talent. Brings me back to the point that Kerry can afford to go balls to the walls in the league because, God Help them, they need to prepare for the likes of Clare, Limerick, Tipp, Cork, and dare I say it - Waterford! I'm not saying Kerry are useless but I put them on a par with the other teams. They are like England - all media hype until s**t hits the fan.

As for Mayo I'm not saying they are behind Donegal or Kerry. Mayo have earned their stripes over the years and are obviously contenders but I don't think you can rate Mayo based off of last years championship. And this is apparently a new and transitioning Mayo team so can they be rated at all yet?

The best finals Dublin played in were against Mayo and Kerry? Sure what other team did they play in a final that wasn't Tyrone?

MurphBalls (Donegal) - Posts: 109 - 16/06/2021 15:26:15    2351446

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Replying To MurphBalls:  "Yes in 2019 both Donegal and Kerry put on a spectacle by going man for man and all out attack, more or less. Since then Kerry have resorted to what is terrible to watch. You only had to watch Dublin V Kerry in the league to see that. It was one of the worst games of the league yet people are saying it was a great game. Dublin played horribly and still managed a draw. You could say Donegal are the team that now play "Total Football". Is it just me or is Kerry's playing style something that Pat Spillane once would have demanded his 27 Euro back for? What was once puke football is now described as a defensive masterclass by the man himself. O'Connor mentions in the Jimmys Winning Matches documentary that if he had played the kind of football Donegal did then he wouldn't be long out of a job in Kerry. It's funny how the media can manipulate peoples minds because Kerry aren't far away from playing that Shiyad football.

I don't have a gripe with anyone except for the fact that people buy into this media hype of Kerry. I don't understand it! People are certain that Kerry are a solidified number 2 behind Dublin. Personally, I think any of Donegal, Mayo, Tyrone, and potentially Armagh and Monaghan would have no bother facing up against Kerry. Kerry have been balls to the walls in this years league whereas other teams have been blooding new talent. Brings me back to the point that Kerry can afford to go balls to the walls in the league because, God Help them, they need to prepare for the likes of Clare, Limerick, Tipp, Cork, and dare I say it - Waterford! I'm not saying Kerry are useless but I put them on a par with the other teams. They are like England - all media hype until s**t hits the fan.

As for Mayo I'm not saying they are behind Donegal or Kerry. Mayo have earned their stripes over the years and are obviously contenders but I don't think you can rate Mayo based off of last years championship. And this is apparently a new and transitioning Mayo team so can they be rated at all yet?

The best finals Dublin played in were against Mayo and Kerry? Sure what other team did they play in a final that wasn't Tyrone?"
Just curious how you think Donegal maybe are the total football team? Based on what? You can say Kerry are overhyped if you want but they are a more dangerous opponent than Mayo or Donegal at the minute. Kerry are in transition as well but are bringing in some class forwards all the time. Not saying ourselves or Donegal couldn't beat them but it's a bit harsh what you said about them.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7290 - 16/06/2021 16:43:18    2351463

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1. Dublin
2. Kerry
3. Donegal
4. Tyrone
5. Armagh, Monaghan
7. Mayo
8. Galway, Kildare, Meath
11. Roscommon

galwayfball (Galway) - Posts: 1438 - 16/06/2021 16:56:01    2351465

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Replying To MurphBalls:  "Yes in 2019 both Donegal and Kerry put on a spectacle by going man for man and all out attack, more or less. Since then Kerry have resorted to what is terrible to watch. You only had to watch Dublin V Kerry in the league to see that. It was one of the worst games of the league yet people are saying it was a great game. Dublin played horribly and still managed a draw. You could say Donegal are the team that now play "Total Football". Is it just me or is Kerry's playing style something that Pat Spillane once would have demanded his 27 Euro back for? What was once puke football is now described as a defensive masterclass by the man himself. O'Connor mentions in the Jimmys Winning Matches documentary that if he had played the kind of football Donegal did then he wouldn't be long out of a job in Kerry. It's funny how the media can manipulate peoples minds because Kerry aren't far away from playing that Shiyad football.

I don't have a gripe with anyone except for the fact that people buy into this media hype of Kerry. I don't understand it! People are certain that Kerry are a solidified number 2 behind Dublin. Personally, I think any of Donegal, Mayo, Tyrone, and potentially Armagh and Monaghan would have no bother facing up against Kerry. Kerry have been balls to the walls in this years league whereas other teams have been blooding new talent. Brings me back to the point that Kerry can afford to go balls to the walls in the league because, God Help them, they need to prepare for the likes of Clare, Limerick, Tipp, Cork, and dare I say it - Waterford! I'm not saying Kerry are useless but I put them on a par with the other teams. They are like England - all media hype until s**t hits the fan.

As for Mayo I'm not saying they are behind Donegal or Kerry. Mayo have earned their stripes over the years and are obviously contenders but I don't think you can rate Mayo based off of last years championship. And this is apparently a new and transitioning Mayo team so can they be rated at all yet?

The best finals Dublin played in were against Mayo and Kerry? Sure what other team did they play in a final that wasn't Tyrone?"
Ah sure you have your view and that's fine. Just to point out though Kerry did blood some new players during the league and also were the highest scorers of all the division one teams. Also scored 11 goals in 3 games and a couple of really smashing goals but each to their own. I never said that Kerry are on a higher level than Donegal Mayo or Tyrone and as for the media we can't stop Spillane Whelan Brolly or McStay from giving their opinions just like you and I.You say that Kerry jokingly have to prepare for munster championship but fail to mention who Dublin have to prepare for in Leinster. As for your comparison with England. Well that says more about you than Kerry. Hope you find the euros more entertaining.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 2687 - 16/06/2021 16:58:10    2351466

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Replying To MurphBalls:  "Yes in 2019 both Donegal and Kerry put on a spectacle by going man for man and all out attack, more or less. Since then Kerry have resorted to what is terrible to watch. You only had to watch Dublin V Kerry in the league to see that. It was one of the worst games of the league yet people are saying it was a great game. Dublin played horribly and still managed a draw. You could say Donegal are the team that now play "Total Football". Is it just me or is Kerry's playing style something that Pat Spillane once would have demanded his 27 Euro back for? What was once puke football is now described as a defensive masterclass by the man himself. O'Connor mentions in the Jimmys Winning Matches documentary that if he had played the kind of football Donegal did then he wouldn't be long out of a job in Kerry. It's funny how the media can manipulate peoples minds because Kerry aren't far away from playing that Shiyad football.

I don't have a gripe with anyone except for the fact that people buy into this media hype of Kerry. I don't understand it! People are certain that Kerry are a solidified number 2 behind Dublin. Personally, I think any of Donegal, Mayo, Tyrone, and potentially Armagh and Monaghan would have no bother facing up against Kerry. Kerry have been balls to the walls in this years league whereas other teams have been blooding new talent. Brings me back to the point that Kerry can afford to go balls to the walls in the league because, God Help them, they need to prepare for the likes of Clare, Limerick, Tipp, Cork, and dare I say it - Waterford! I'm not saying Kerry are useless but I put them on a par with the other teams. They are like England - all media hype until s**t hits the fan.

As for Mayo I'm not saying they are behind Donegal or Kerry. Mayo have earned their stripes over the years and are obviously contenders but I don't think you can rate Mayo based off of last years championship. And this is apparently a new and transitioning Mayo team so can they be rated at all yet?

The best finals Dublin played in were against Mayo and Kerry? Sure what other team did they play in a final that wasn't Tyrone?"
You talk about kerry being hyped up too much, do you think the same could be said of Donegal?

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 885 - 16/06/2021 17:13:23    2351468

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Replying To MurphBalls:  "Yes in 2019 both Donegal and Kerry put on a spectacle by going man for man and all out attack, more or less. Since then Kerry have resorted to what is terrible to watch. You only had to watch Dublin V Kerry in the league to see that. It was one of the worst games of the league yet people are saying it was a great game. Dublin played horribly and still managed a draw. You could say Donegal are the team that now play "Total Football". Is it just me or is Kerry's playing style something that Pat Spillane once would have demanded his 27 Euro back for? What was once puke football is now described as a defensive masterclass by the man himself. O'Connor mentions in the Jimmys Winning Matches documentary that if he had played the kind of football Donegal did then he wouldn't be long out of a job in Kerry. It's funny how the media can manipulate peoples minds because Kerry aren't far away from playing that Shiyad football.

I don't have a gripe with anyone except for the fact that people buy into this media hype of Kerry. I don't understand it! People are certain that Kerry are a solidified number 2 behind Dublin. Personally, I think any of Donegal, Mayo, Tyrone, and potentially Armagh and Monaghan would have no bother facing up against Kerry. Kerry have been balls to the walls in this years league whereas other teams have been blooding new talent. Brings me back to the point that Kerry can afford to go balls to the walls in the league because, God Help them, they need to prepare for the likes of Clare, Limerick, Tipp, Cork, and dare I say it - Waterford! I'm not saying Kerry are useless but I put them on a par with the other teams. They are like England - all media hype until s**t hits the fan.

As for Mayo I'm not saying they are behind Donegal or Kerry. Mayo have earned their stripes over the years and are obviously contenders but I don't think you can rate Mayo based off of last years championship. And this is apparently a new and transitioning Mayo team so can they be rated at all yet?

The best finals Dublin played in were against Mayo and Kerry? Sure what other team did they play in a final that wasn't Tyrone?"
Cillian O Connor out for the year is a fatal blow to us. Even more so than Andy in 2012. To have any chance in a potential semi final we would have needed him and everyone fully fit. It's very disappointing for Cillian but also Mayo. Anyway those the cards that we are dealt.

Mayo are indeed in transition but also still well able to challenge and compete which is what you want to see.

I agree to a point on Kerry. I'll reserve judgement yet. I'm not convinced by their defence and midfield is nowhere near Dublin. Donegal could beat Kerry but we are still three years on waiting for this Donegal team to explode. Tyrone are caught between stools in style of play and won't be challenging this year...it will take them time.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10796 - 16/06/2021 17:34:36    2351469

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