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Yea right !!! As if there's a Joe Sheridan goal in every game. Managers would use these challenges to break up the opposition's momentum. What you are proposing is effectively six additional water breaks during a game. Coming in to the closing stages of a game those challenges would be used for tactical reasons. The closing stages of games would be broken up. The flow of the games would be destroyed. You can't even say where you would get enough cameras to cover every game. Would it apply to both league and championship or just championship? It would be a disaster. We have seen how VAR can negatively affect games. Move on. This is a non starter.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 06/06/2021 10:59:10 2348599 Link 0 |
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As opposed to the current situation where the referee runs around the place asking if anyone saw something....that never happens! It only took about 3 minutes in an All-Ireland before James Owens sent Richie Hogan off...and even then he couldn't be sure it was the right decision. StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 06/06/2021 13:40:44 2348625 Link 0 |
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That'll still happen on top of your six additional challenges added to the two water breaks already there. Those conversations might go on even longer given that you would allow three challenges per team.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 06/06/2021 14:53:42 2348636 Link 0 |
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How many of the 4 incidents I highlight are there in a game? And how many are contentious? And what manager would be stupid enough to use all 3, would they not be keeping one in case there is something at the very end
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 06/06/2021 18:02:16 2348676 Link 0 |
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There's been enough time spent on this already. 1. You can't say who'd provide the cameras. 2. You can't guarantee that this service would be provided at all games. 3. You haven't clarified whether this will be used in both league and championship games or whether it would be used in championship games only. 4. You haven't clarified whether or not it would be utilised in relation to all decisions made by the referee. 5. If it is not to be used in relation to all decisions then specifically in relation to what decisions is it to be utilised? 6. You have yet to address the issue of existing breaks in play and the additional six breaks in play you propose to allow. 7. You have yet to address the issue of managers deliberately using challenges as a tactic to break up play in the closing stages of the game. 8. You have yet to address the pigs ear that is VAR. Yet you are proposing to introduce something that is broadly similar. 9. What you are proposing is ill judged and poorly thought through. 10. I'm finished posting on this. It's a non starter. Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 06/06/2021 19:41:09 2348692 Link 1 |
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1. The cameras would be provided by whatever is available. Its not going to be a min of 10 cameras. 2. I didn't say it would be available for all games. Championship only. 3. Refer to 2 4. Read my first post 5. Read my first post 6. There is more time wasted asking umpires and linesmen than this would take 7. There are very few incidents where it can be used. Read my original post. They don't happen every minute 8. Its not VAR. Its a world apart. Read my first post. Its not about getting every decision right, but getting some major ones right 9. Your opinion. As I said in my original post, the details would need to be worked out. I actually today listened to the Irish Examiner from April - bizarrely they had an interview with Anthony Daly and Fergal Hogan and they were proposing something similar. 10. Excellent. I think there might be a generation gap. Or two. StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 06/06/2021 21:58:55 2348730 Link 0 |
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Jesus wept !!!!
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 07/06/2021 02:10:15 2348756 Link 0 |
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This post is filled to the brim with arrogance and to be honest ignorance. Hilarious how you think some of these points are actually proving a point for yourself 1. Use the cameras which are, shockingly, already at the games. 2. Who cares. Have you ever heard of Hawk eye? 3. Who cares. Have you ever heard of Hawk eye? 4. Let's say yes. Are you happy now? You'd swear this was a press conference and he was actually responsible for setting this thing up. 5. All decisions so. Or maybe just ones involving scoreable frees, scores and red and yellow cards. It doesn't matter; it doesn't mean either can't work. Silly. 6. Do you really think there'll be 6 breaks in play every match? If you take out offsides in soccer, which obviously don't relate to GAA, on average there's probably 0-1 breaks in play per game using VAR. 7. Leave it up to a TMO, no need for challenges from teams. 8. You have yet to address the sweeping success that is the TMO in rugby. Yet you're arguing against something broadly similar. 9. How the hell is this an argument? It's just your opinion. Looks like you ran out of arguments and were just trying to get to 10. 10. Yeah. You were definitely just trying to get to 10. jonjon (Mayo) - Posts: 99 - 08/06/2021 12:14:50 2348948 Link 0 |
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Exactly, thank you! Unlike soccer this is up to the manager to decide what to challenge. And unlike soccer, it isn't about getting the lines and axes out, its about giving the manager a chance to challenge a couple of big decisions. I THINK (and don't watch NFL) how it works in NFL is the coach has to challenge it before the next passage of play? So if there's a penalty, its up to the manager to throw a flag onto the pitch? So a manager in GAA has about 20 seconds to decide. Its not about getting every decision 100% right, its about getting a couple of potential game deciders right. I don't get what his problem is, Louth might have had their best day since god knows when with it! StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 08/06/2021 13:57:29 2348983 Link 0 |
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might be he's thinking ahead. By the time the snowflake generation start officiating at matches you'll want technology to arbitrate as the umpires will be too busy staring down at their smart phones
Maroonatic (Galway) - Posts: 1060 - 08/06/2021 14:12:03 2348993 Link 0 |
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They were genuine questions nothing more and nothing less. It's a non starter because neither you or StoreysTash (great name) can even say where the cameras will come from. Not every game has a full complement of cameras. On busy days in the championship games involving the weaker counties are generally covered by a single camera. How's the TMO going to work that one? People from Louth are all too familiar with the two minutes of highlights on the Sunday Game. Hawkeye is only available in Croke Park and Semple Stadium. DOH !!!! If the game needs to be broken up by a manager in the closing stages you can be damn sure they'll use the challenges. As for the TMO being a "sweeping success" in rugby have you watched rugby lately? It completely breaks up the play and it slows the game down. Football and hurling have been interfered with enough. Leave the games alone and let them breathe.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 08/06/2021 22:14:40 2349110 Link 0 |
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I think yet again I need to ask you to review my original post. I said (repeatedly) to you that I am proposing only using the 1-2 cameras available at any match. If they pick up something, great - it can be used. If there isn't, then tough. I never mentioned HawkEye as yet again I have to tell you to read my original post. Yet again I remind you, there are only certain possibly game defining decisions which a challenge can be used on, this isn't just "ah I want to stop the game so I'll argue that he threw the ball at the 65 yard line". StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 09/06/2021 11:25:57 2349170 Link 0 |
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I literally just said that they would use the cameras already at the game. Are you blind, unable to read, or obtuse? Yes Hawkeye is only available in Semple stadium and Croke Park. It is only available for some games. It is unavailable for some. So why on earth are you so adamant that a TMO has to be available at every single match or it can't be implemented for any; when that's how Hawk Eye works? If there's not enough cameras then there's not enough cameras. Boo hoo. jonjon (Mayo) - Posts: 99 - 09/06/2021 15:20:13 2349227 Link 0 |
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Ah here calm down jonjon. I know you're relatively new to the site. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean you have to ask them if they're illiterate or "obtuse." The games have been interfered with enough and in the eyes of many that interference has not been for the better. Just because the weaker teams in particular are treated differently in relation to Hawkeye doesn't it's ok to treat them differently and discriminate against them yet again. It undermines the credibility of the championship.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 09/06/2021 17:29:14 2349253 Link 1 |
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I can see what you're proposing is well intentioned StoreysTash. The games have been interfered with too often. It's time to leave them alone. One or two cameras at a game isn't enough. What you are proposing is either fairly and equally applied to all counties or it's not applied at all. There are plenty of cameras at games involving the more successful counties. At many of the games involving the less successful counties very often there is only one camera. That is nowhere near enough to implement what you are proposing satisfactorily. Less successful counties are already treated differently when it comes to Hawkeye given that they very seldom play in Croke Park or Thurles. It's not good enough to do it to them again. What would it say to the players and supporters of less successful counties? Leave well enough alone. I know you didn't mention Hawkeye. Jonjon did.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 09/06/2021 23:40:25 2349306 Link 0 |
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So, do people still think James Owens couldn't have asked the 4th official "did he deny a goal scoring opportunity" and get the correct decision in 15 seconds? StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 07/07/2021 12:08:48 2357329 Link 0 |
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Hawkeye is no longer in Thurles. It was removed at the start of the year due to its operating costs.
johnocarroll17 (Limerick) - Posts: 408 - 07/07/2021 12:59:46 2357347 Link 1 |
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It doesn't break up rugby as much because it is a stop start type if game. Would definitely cause more upheaval in football and hurling plus, as Cockney Cat, mentioned be expensive to do so. I think technology outside of the games is having an adverse impact on rules, referees and other officials. Things can get blown way out of proportion by a storm on social media and the GAA wants to be seen to be doing something. The referee in the Clare game was right to give a yellow card but wrong to give a penalty as it seemed far from a goalscoring opportunity. 20 years ago, when there was little or no social media or Internet interest, it might be mentioned in the Sunday Game highlights of the game and a few lines in the Monday papers, maybe in a phone-in to a radio station. But also 20 years ago he wouldn't have had to make such a decision, his own experience and common sense telling him it's a card and a free. Refs had common sense, a yellow card and a red card, two linesmen and four umpires and still mistakes were made. But they didn't have a lot if extra rules because public outcries called for it, no black cards in football, and no social media exaggerating stories just for coverage. Referees and other officials get little or no thanks, never praised enough when they let some games flow into classics but expected to implement new rules, some badly thought out, and technology letting people giving their hindsight judgement. If we have seven match officials we can surely make better use of them all and improve things that way rather than adding more technology to the game to ultimately slow it down.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7342 - 07/07/2021 14:03:30 2357377 Link 2 |
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You pretty much put it all accurately in a nut shell there. Unfortunately though we can not go back. The technology is going to become much cheaper going forward with what exists now obsolete. I think a managers challenge should be allowed but just one. However if he gets it wrong then his team is penalized. So he challenges a penalty and the refs decision stands, then his player is given the ten minute sin bin. You have to have a deterrent to willy nilly calls.The double hit now is just wrong.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2658 - 07/07/2021 15:09:06 2357414 Link 0 |
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I am glad we agree on something. He probably would say he made a mistake. He must be able to be criticized but in an objective way that does not subject him to abuse. Very few compliments are dished out when the ref does a good job which is more often then we admit. The ref makes a decision in a split second but there should no reason why he can not reverse his call on reflection or consultation and throw the ball in, in the middle of the field. If James did consult McAllister and both do not know the rule that is a problem. I think video review would have reversed this one in less that 30 seconds showing the number of defenders inside the play. What ever is the solution in todays game some thing needs to be done to help the ref not be the goat because social media, writers and pundits who have no skin in the game are here to stay and so are errors.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2658 - 07/07/2021 15:56:38 2357432 Link 0 |