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Sometimes the anthem is the best thing about the game being played......... dour and backward passing, handpassing, feigning injury etc etc.
the creeler (Cavan) - Posts: 512 - 04/06/2021 10:21:38
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I agree 100% with the previous posters on this. People can nearly do what they like nowadays and if anyone says anything they are infringing on their rights etc etc.
People go on about what "the church" did in the past- I am proud to say I am part of the church as are many of my friends who are upstanding, loyal religious people. So how dare anyone state that "the church" did evil things. Some members of the church did evil things, not "the church". It is littered with exremely good priests, bishops, nuns and lay people who do their absolute best and this lazy argument is thrown out all the time- oh look at what "the church" did. It is time someone called this out.
Some people in "the state" also did evil things, some people in "the homes" did evil things, some people in "the schools" did evil things, but why are all teachers not tarred with the one brush same as priests for example. It is a lazy excuse and a common popular thing now to bash the church.
I also agree with regard to respect for authority- children/young people only learn that from others so if they do not have respect the blame lies with others- we see it all the time- teachers get very little respect, priests, Gardai, Fire personnel, nurses, ethnic minorities, people who are any way "different" etc etc. Why is this?? Where is our moral compass?? We simply do not seem to have one anymore and if anyone says anything they are castigated.
It has come more and more into GAA also- no respect for opposition players, feigning injury, feigning fouls to get a free, no respect for referees or officals. It is endemic and I hope all the do gooders who would not dare correct any young person/child for doing some wrong realise and understand the massive disservice they are doing to society.
And I am not advocating turning back the clock as some people will accuse me of I am sure- what I am saying is that the church, the state, the schools, the homes had bad points and bad people but they had a lot of very good ones also and in our rush to be PC we seem to have thrown out the baby with the bathwater and now we are left with a society that has lost all its moral norms and direction. We cannot blame the church for that, so who is next in line for scapegoating????????
the creeler (Cavan) - Posts: 512 - 04/06/2021 10:22:23
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Replying To tonguey: "I agree 100% with the previous posters on this. People can nearly do what they like nowadays and if anyone says anything they are infringing on their rights etc etc.
People go on about what "the church" did in the past- I am proud to say I am part of the church as are many of my friends who are upstanding, loyal religious people. So how dare anyone state that "the church" did evil things. Some members of the church did evil things, not "the church". It is littered with exremely good priests, bishops, nuns and lay people who do their absolute best and this lazy argument is thrown out all the time- oh look at what "the church" did. It is time someone called this out.
Some people in "the state" also did evil things, some people in "the homes" did evil things, some people in "the schools" did evil things, but why are all teachers not tarred with the one brush same as priests for example. It is a lazy excuse and a common popular thing now to bash the church.
I also agree with regard to respect for authority- children/young people only learn that from others so if they do not have respect the blame lies with others- we see it all the time- teachers get very little respect, priests, Gardai, Fire personnel, nurses, ethnic minorities, people who are any way "different" etc etc. Why is this?? Where is our moral compass?? We simply do not seem to have one anymore and if anyone says anything they are castigated.
It has come more and more into GAA also- no respect for opposition players, feigning injury, feigning fouls to get a free, no respect for referees or officals. It is endemic and I hope all the do gooders who would not dare correct any young person/child for doing some wrong realise and understand the massive disservice they are doing to society.
And I am not advocating turning back the clock as some people will accuse me of I am sure- what I am saying is that the church, the state, the schools, the homes had bad points and bad people but they had a lot of very good ones also and in our rush to be PC we seem to have thrown out the baby with the bathwater and now we are left with a society that has lost all its moral norms and direction. We cannot blame the church for that, so who is next in line for scapegoating????????" "People can nearly do what they want nowadays" that's called a democracy, its a good thing, trust me!
"So how dare anyone state the church did evil things" so people shouldn't talk about facts just because you go to mass?
You're whole case here is a contradiction. You don't like people criticising the whole church because of the actions of a few yet You're happy enough to blame the entire modern society for the views of some but not all. Pot kettle.
Maybe you should take your own advice when SOME people talk about the church. In my own circles there aren't too many people who have much faith in the church anymore but they still respect it as a right to exist and help those who are interested. The number one problem I hear about the Catholic Church, particularly from the older generations, would be its almost harassment levels of preaching and harsh judgment on anyone who dared try to think for themselves or have an alternative view to it. I guess that's still an issue with some of its followers going by your rant above.
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2385 - 04/06/2021 11:26:57
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Replying To SaffronDon: ""People can nearly do what they want nowadays" that's called a democracy, its a good thing, trust me!
"So how dare anyone state the church did evil things" so people shouldn't talk about facts just because you go to mass?
You're whole case here is a contradiction. You don't like people criticising the whole church because of the actions of a few yet You're happy enough to blame the entire modern society for the views of some but not all. Pot kettle.
Maybe you should take your own advice when SOME people talk about the church. In my own circles there aren't too many people who have much faith in the church anymore but they still respect it as a right to exist and help those who are interested. The number one problem I hear about the Catholic Church, particularly from the older generations, would be its almost harassment levels of preaching and harsh judgment on anyone who dared try to think for themselves or have an alternative view to it. I guess that's still an issue with some of its followers going by your rant above." Where did I say I blamed "entire modern society" for the views of some??? Point that out please.
I have no problem with people speaking facts- the fact is some people in the church did evil things- not every person in the church. I understand you may have difficulty comprehending that but that is your problem not mine.
In your circles you say people do not have faith in the church- that is fine, that is their perogative. I do not really care who has faith or who does not- my point is that there are a lot of people in the church who are extremely good, well intentioned people and "in my circles" I know that it really hurts them when they hear people who like to jump on bandwagons say "the church" did this, that or the other. They are a part of "the church" so therefore by people saying that it means they are included.
No doubt people in the church did evil things, but that is the way it should be stated- people in the church- not "THE CHURCH"
Democracy is not allowing people to do what they want- driving too fast because I want to, rob houses because I want to, assault people because I want to- are you saying they should be allowed in democracy?? I hope you are not a judge as if you are nobody would be convicted. "Oh I am sorry your honour, I just stole 10,000 from the post office because I wanted to and as it is a democracy you can do what you want." I think you are mixing up democracy and anarchy.
the creeler (Cavan) - Posts: 512 - 04/06/2021 11:43:47
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One can see the dichotomy of the thing when you stand back and ponder what is in front of you in general at any given time.
Sectors of Irish society were bad, still are, not everything is bad.
The three pillars of Irish society, on this side of the fence anyway were the church, gaa and fianna fail. It could be argued all three have been massively damaged via numerous reasons.
For the sake of this forum i will ponder a while on the GAA. The GAA was set up to promote the 'amateur' pursuit of gaelic games, athletics and Irish language and be non political. It could be argued that the GAA has completely forgotten about the Irish language except for tokenism, and athletics don't get a look in anymore. In fact when have you last heard about rounders being played either, another GAA remit.
The GAA in my opinion has a couple of things on its mind in the past 15-20 years and that is elitism and money. 'Weaker' counties struggling, who cares, throw them a pat on the head tiered competition structure. that will shut them up. Unequal funding, who cares, Dublin are the cash cow so we'll keep foddering them the euro bills. Sell our games to a British broadcasting channel, shur pensioners can go and watch the games in the pubs if they can't afford to get the tv installed at home, but don't drink too much now. Not that watching the games on RTE are much better, with their unimaginative dull commentating and analysis and presenting.
Until the people take the games back off the suits and the big name useless coaches with their systems and diet plans, then the amateur status is in big trouble. If they want to go semi professional or professional they should just say it and not be cowardly about it.
the_creeler (Leitrim) - Posts: 119 - 04/06/2021 12:02:32
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Replying To tonguey: "Where did I say I blamed "entire modern society" for the views of some??? Point that out please.
I have no problem with people speaking facts- the fact is some people in the church did evil things- not every person in the church. I understand you may have difficulty comprehending that but that is your problem not mine.
In your circles you say people do not have faith in the church- that is fine, that is their perogative. I do not really care who has faith or who does not- my point is that there are a lot of people in the church who are extremely good, well intentioned people and "in my circles" I know that it really hurts them when they hear people who like to jump on bandwagons say "the church" did this, that or the other. They are a part of "the church" so therefore by people saying that it means they are included.
No doubt people in the church did evil things, but that is the way it should be stated- people in the church- not "THE CHURCH"
Democracy is not allowing people to do what they want- driving too fast because I want to, rob houses because I want to, assault people because I want to- are you saying they should be allowed in democracy?? I hope you are not a judge as if you are nobody would be convicted. "Oh I am sorry your honour, I just stole 10,000 from the post office because I wanted to and as it is a democracy you can do what you want." I think you are mixing up democracy and anarchy." "We are left with a society that has lost all its moral norms and direction" lost amongst all your other rants and found by someone who didn't write it ;)
You clearly do care when you let the views of some send you on a rant like that. Even if it is outrage on others behalf, how far do you expect to get in life by allowing a few peoples opinions about the church or anything really affect you so much? Take it all with a pinch of salt would be my advice, or better yet, ignore and live your own life.
Your last section is just silly. Democracy still has laws which don't really need highlighted, you commit crime you do the time. It's a bit different from freedom of speech or right of choice. I'm sure you'd prefer a law against that too though as you can't seem to hack an opinion that differs from your own one.
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2385 - 04/06/2021 12:15:36
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Replying To SaffronDon: ""We are left with a society that has lost all its moral norms and direction" lost amongst all your other rants and found by someone who didn't write it ;)
You clearly do care when you let the views of some send you on a rant like that. Even if it is outrage on others behalf, how far do you expect to get in life by allowing a few peoples opinions about the church or anything really affect you so much? Take it all with a pinch of salt would be my advice, or better yet, ignore and live your own life.
Your last section is just silly. Democracy still has laws which don't really need highlighted, you commit crime you do the time. It's a bit different from freedom of speech or right of choice. I'm sure you'd prefer a law against that too though as you can't seem to hack an opinion that differs from your own one." SaffronDon is out of his depth it is fair to say.
He do no like the truth being told and he like cheese on rhubarb yes.
I like the scallions flavoured swiss roll that can be got in the ating shop on little water street.
This is a funny man no.
the creeler (Cavan) - Posts: 512 - 04/06/2021 12:32:17
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Replying To tonguey: "SaffronDon is out of his depth it is fair to say.
He do no like the truth being told and he like cheese on rhubarb yes.
I like the scallions flavoured swiss roll that can be got in the ating shop on little water street.
This is a funny man no." If the above muck is your depth then I'll be glad to steer clear of it. Truth being told bothers you a lot more than me it would seem.
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2385 - 04/06/2021 12:57:26
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Replying To SaffronDon: "If the above muck is your depth then I'll be glad to steer clear of it. Truth being told bothers you a lot more than me it would seem." Oh please don't go- I'd say you're savage craic!! Cooooooola and snacckkkkk boxxxxx
the creeler (Cavan) - Posts: 512 - 04/06/2021 13:13:11
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Replying To tonguey: "Oh please don't go- I'd say you're savage craic!! Cooooooola and snacckkkkk boxxxxx" Aye your tay and biscuit gatherings to complain about the lack of morals in society wouldnt really be my scene. But you knock yourself out chick
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2385 - 04/06/2021 13:56:59
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In reality there is very little difference between the Catholic church and the Orange Order.
bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4624 - 04/06/2021 15:09:32
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Replying To SaffronDon: ""People can nearly do what they want nowadays" that's called a democracy, its a good thing, trust me!
"So how dare anyone state the church did evil things" so people shouldn't talk about facts just because you go to mass?
You're whole case here is a contradiction. You don't like people criticising the whole church because of the actions of a few yet You're happy enough to blame the entire modern society for the views of some but not all. Pot kettle.
Maybe you should take your own advice when SOME people talk about the church. In my own circles there aren't too many people who have much faith in the church anymore but they still respect it as a right to exist and help those who are interested. The number one problem I hear about the Catholic Church, particularly from the older generations, would be its almost harassment levels of preaching and harsh judgment on anyone who dared try to think for themselves or have an alternative view to it. I guess that's still an issue with some of its followers going by your rant above." Lol, yeah, it's great living in modern progressive Ireland where all thoughts and opinions are welcomed, smh.
Look man, human beings are animals, and quite nasty ones at that. The things we like to do, such as promiscuity, drunkeness, gluttony, laziness, violence, selfishness, a belief in the wants of the individual over the needs of the community, are unfortunately the things that are the least conducive to a stable society, so its not a good thing that people can do what they want these days. Those structures that you and your ilk so despise were put in place to keep us on the straight and narrow, and it's just a horrible shame that some of the priest's tasked with enforcing those structures abused their positions, shame on them.
.The problem with democracy is that people will only vote for what's right for themselves, and more specifically what's right for themselves in the here and now, without giving any thought to future generations or those outside of their own circles. For example, any politician who (wisely) takes steps to bring our finances under control will be booted out by the people,at the first sign of even slight hardship, for the reasons above.
People in glass houses shouldnt throw stones. However harsh the church might have been, atheists are every bit as harsh on those few brave kids who are open about their faith today. Imagine being a practisung Catholic in a modern Irish secondary school. I'd say you'd be on the receiving end of no shortage of abuse.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1708 - 04/06/2021 17:34:41
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Replying To bad.monkey: "In reality there is very little difference between the Catholic church and the Orange Order." I think you'll find that the Catholic Church wasn't founded out of hatred of Protestants.
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1909 - 04/06/2021 18:44:14
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Replying To Galway9801: "Lol, yeah, it's great living in modern progressive Ireland where all thoughts and opinions are welcomed, smh.
Look man, human beings are animals, and quite nasty ones at that. The things we like to do, such as promiscuity, drunkeness, gluttony, laziness, violence, selfishness, a belief in the wants of the individual over the needs of the community, are unfortunately the things that are the least conducive to a stable society, so its not a good thing that people can do what they want these days. Those structures that you and your ilk so despise were put in place to keep us on the straight and narrow, and it's just a horrible shame that some of the priest's tasked with enforcing those structures abused their positions, shame on them.
.The problem with democracy is that people will only vote for what's right for themselves, and more specifically what's right for themselves in the here and now, without giving any thought to future generations or those outside of their own circles. For example, any politician who (wisely) takes steps to bring our finances under control will be booted out by the people,at the first sign of even slight hardship, for the reasons above.
People in glass houses shouldnt throw stones. However harsh the church might have been, atheists are every bit as harsh on those few brave kids who are open about their faith today. Imagine being a practisung Catholic in a modern Irish secondary school. I'd say you'd be on the receiving end of no shortage of abuse." I actually made reference to and praised the structures of the law in society in a post above. You missed the point there. I was talking about freedom of speech and right of choice. Not the laws of the land in whatever place. There's a balancing act, but freedom of speech has to be at the table for it to work. The world changes all the time and some people, especially in Ireland, fear any sort of change to what they're used to and, as you rightly say above, humans can be nasty creatures, especially in unfamiliar surroundings.
You're still faced with the same problem if you sign your democracy away to a political power that might just happen to be the one politician/party in the whole of parliament who isn't corrupt or greed driven? The people's vote matters a lot more than one yuppy individual at the top who also suits himself over the bigger picture on a regular basis.
As for the young practising Catholic in a modern Irish secondary school, unfortunately certain kids in every school of every era gave the kids that stood out from the norm, a rough time. As this would be a rare modern pupil it would fall under that bracket which, let's face it, dates back a lot longer than a modern secondary school.
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2385 - 04/06/2021 20:14:55
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Replying To Bon: "I think you'll find that the Catholic Church wasn't founded out of hatred of Protestants." The prods would still be catholics only for Henry the 8th wanting a divorce and a younger woman. maybe he had a point lol.
Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2747 - 04/06/2021 20:40:27
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Replying To Tirchonaill1: "The prods would still be catholics only for Henry the 8th wanting a divorce and a younger woman. maybe he had a point lol." The cute oul hoor haha!!
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1909 - 04/06/2021 20:44:42
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Replying To Bon: "I think you'll find that the Catholic Church wasn't founded out of hatred of Protestants." They didnt exist. I think Protestants only started as the Catholic church was selling 'passes' into heaven for rich people who donated money to build a solid gold dome for the popes house in Rome. Classy. Both groups are religion based groups and exclude others based on that. Society would be better off without them.
bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4624 - 04/06/2021 20:44:58
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Replying To bad.monkey: "They didnt exist. I think Protestants only started as the Catholic church was selling 'passes' into heaven for rich people who donated money to build a solid gold dome for the popes house in Rome. Classy. Both groups are religion based groups and exclude others based on that. Society would be better off without them." link
The great Meath philosopher sums it up well!
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7345 - 04/06/2021 21:36:18
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Replying To Bon: "I think you'll find that the Catholic Church wasn't founded out of hatred of Protestants." You can also freely become a member of the Catholic Church regardless of what religion your wife or parents were, and you don't get thrown out of the Catholic Church for attending an Orange parade. There are some fairly unusual statements made on here but someone suggesting there is little difference between the Orange Order and the Catholic Church sure has raised the bar.
Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 04/06/2021 22:14:47
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Replying To Galway9801: "Lol, yeah, it's great living in modern progressive Ireland where all thoughts and opinions are welcomed, smh.
Look man, human beings are animals, and quite nasty ones at that. The things we like to do, such as promiscuity, drunkeness, gluttony, laziness, violence, selfishness, a belief in the wants of the individual over the needs of the community, are unfortunately the things that are the least conducive to a stable society, so its not a good thing that people can do what they want these days. Those structures that you and your ilk so despise were put in place to keep us on the straight and narrow, and it's just a horrible shame that some of the priest's tasked with enforcing those structures abused their positions, shame on them.
.The problem with democracy is that people will only vote for what's right for themselves, and more specifically what's right for themselves in the here and now, without giving any thought to future generations or those outside of their own circles. For example, any politician who (wisely) takes steps to bring our finances under control will be booted out by the people,at the first sign of even slight hardship, for the reasons above.
People in glass houses shouldnt throw stones. However harsh the church might have been, atheists are every bit as harsh on those few brave kids who are open about their faith today. Imagine being a practisung Catholic in a modern Irish secondary school. I'd say you'd be on the receiving end of no shortage of abuse." Democracy is what we use to select a dictatorship every four years. A peanut given to us to let us think we have some say. Anyone who thinks otherwise is cuckoo. The Roman Emperor Constantine was the first to realize that I can't watch and control these s.o.b. all the time so let them think they have some power. The alternative ? I don't know. It is like the farmer chasing the 3 legged chicken. He does not know what they taste like because he has never caught up to one yet.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 04/06/2021 22:46:00
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