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Haven't started a thread in a while, so thought I'd put the feelers out for this.
Any thoughts on whether instead of two teams getting promoted /relegated, we have just one.

I feel it would add to the cut avd thrust of the football leagues, maybe make more of a real competition out of it, and make the finals actually mean something, or I'd be happy also to just go with the team who finishes first getting the title, (same with relegation, a one off game between the bottom two, or simply the bottom team gets relegated).

This is all on the assumption of course that from next year we'll be back to a normal schedule.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 622 - 31/05/2021 00:26:31    2346775

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Replying To Galway9801:  "Haven't started a thread in a while, so thought I'd put the feelers out for this.
Any thoughts on whether instead of two teams getting promoted /relegated, we have just one.

I feel it would add to the cut avd thrust of the football leagues, maybe make more of a real competition out of it, and make the finals actually mean something, or I'd be happy also to just go with the team who finishes first getting the title, (same with relegation, a one off game between the bottom two, or simply the bottom team gets relegated).

This is all on the assumption of course that from next year we'll be back to a normal schedule."
Only 1 up or down would mean fewer meaningful games in the latter stages, as fewer teams would be in contention. You'd have more mid-table teams safe by the last round. The way it is now means that most teams are either at risk of going down or in with a shot of going up (finishing in the top 2), going into the last round of games. Sometimes you have a team that's in both scenarios. It ensures to keep the games more competitive.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 1056 - 31/05/2021 10:45:22    2346826

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Replying To Galway9801:  "Haven't started a thread in a while, so thought I'd put the feelers out for this.
Any thoughts on whether instead of two teams getting promoted /relegated, we have just one.

I feel it would add to the cut avd thrust of the football leagues, maybe make more of a real competition out of it, and make the finals actually mean something, or I'd be happy also to just go with the team who finishes first getting the title, (same with relegation, a one off game between the bottom two, or simply the bottom team gets relegated).

This is all on the assumption of course that from next year we'll be back to a normal schedule."
I think you want 2 up 2 down. 1 up 1 down isn't really enough of a flow of teams. 4 divisions for 32 teams is already a lot, you don't want to create inertia by not having a good flow of teams between levels.

The lower league finals I do find to be damp squibs though.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3451 - 31/05/2021 10:48:14    2346829

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Given the curtailed football leagues this year, it's interesting to see half the teams playing for div title/promotion and half vying against the drop (all teams, including mid table, in a KO contest).

Would that be too much in the 4x8 NFL going forward (e.g. 4th to div SFs, 5th to relegation finals) ?

Or, have promo/releg crossover - e.g. 5th div 1 v 4th div 2, 6th (d1) v 3rd (d2), 7v2, 8v1 (4 winners go or stay up, top team in lower div is champ without promotion guarantee).

Or, like hurling, have 2x6, 2x6, 2x4 sections in 3 divs (latter regional double-round robin) before that KO for all (with or without crossover).

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2032 - 31/05/2021 22:08:30    2347217

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2 up 2 down makes the leagues great imo.

Most teams have something to play for going into the last round of fixtures, either a Divisional title/promotion or trying to avoid relegation.

It's a great competition and I'd hate to see it messed with.

Yes, 2 up can sometimes lead to situation where a team gets promoted but isn't at the level of the other teams in their new Division like Meath last year but its better than the alternative of making it more difficult for teams to progress and test themselves at the top.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13318 - 31/05/2021 22:43:06    2347236

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Replying To omahant:  "Given the curtailed football leagues this year, it's interesting to see half the teams playing for div title/promotion and half vying against the drop (all teams, including mid table, in a KO contest).

Would that be too much in the 4x8 NFL going forward (e.g. 4th to div SFs, 5th to relegation finals) ?

Or, have promo/releg crossover - e.g. 5th div 1 v 4th div 2, 6th (d1) v 3rd (d2), 7v2, 8v1 (4 winners go or stay up, top team in lower div is champ without promotion guarantee).

Or, like hurling, have 2x6, 2x6, 2x4 sections in 3 divs (latter regional double-round robin) before that KO for all (with or without crossover)."
It works fine for 4 team groups particularly when they are divided by geography and not seeded to be equal strength.

Guaranteeing teams 4 matches (apart div 4 South) was important also.

Your suggestion neuters the league phase. I think most people would prefer fewer knockout matches than more for the league.

You've the other thread about finals for instance and the top 2 from 8 league finals are not especially popular.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3451 - 01/06/2021 06:06:43    2347256

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Replying To omahant:  "Given the curtailed football leagues this year, it's interesting to see half the teams playing for div title/promotion and half vying against the drop (all teams, including mid table, in a KO contest).

Would that be too much in the 4x8 NFL going forward (e.g. 4th to div SFs, 5th to relegation finals) ?

Or, have promo/releg crossover - e.g. 5th div 1 v 4th div 2, 6th (d1) v 3rd (d2), 7v2, 8v1 (4 winners go or stay up, top team in lower div is champ without promotion guarantee).

Or, like hurling, have 2x6, 2x6, 2x4 sections in 3 divs (latter regional double-round robin) before that KO for all (with or without crossover)."
If there's something I think interesting out of this season it's that the league groups are the sort of games you'd want for the championship.

I look at Antrim's fixtures and you'd love to see them playing Derry, Fermanagh, Cavan and Longford of division 3 North for a go at promotion.

You look at Division 2 North and it'd be interesting those teams up against the division 1 North teams in a group section to the championship.

Merging the division 1 and 2 geographical sections for a tier 1 and the division 3 and 4 sections within their geography for a tier 2 would be a better championship than the Provincial based system or some of the other mooted changes.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3451 - 01/06/2021 09:21:06    2347272

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Replying To Galway9801:  "Haven't started a thread in a while, so thought I'd put the feelers out for this.
Any thoughts on whether instead of two teams getting promoted /relegated, we have just one.

I feel it would add to the cut avd thrust of the football leagues, maybe make more of a real competition out of it, and make the finals actually mean something, or I'd be happy also to just go with the team who finishes first getting the title, (same with relegation, a one off game between the bottom two, or simply the bottom team gets relegated).

This is all on the assumption of course that from next year we'll be back to a normal schedule."
Not a bad idea 1 up 1 down would give a county final feel to a league final, all or nothing. I think myself those promoted as champions do have more momentum in the higher division than the runners up the year after.

DUALSUPPORT (Limerick) - Posts: 968 - 01/06/2021 09:36:03    2347282

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A variant maybe, top of division n-1 gets promoted, bottom of n gets relegated. 2nd in n-1 plays 7th in n for promotion / relegation.
Would add drama and you would earn your promotion/ deserve your relegation.

facethepuckout (Roscommon) - Posts: 197 - 01/06/2021 22:45:13    2347563

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Replying To Whammo86:  "If there's something I think interesting out of this season it's that the league groups are the sort of games you'd want for the championship.

I look at Antrim's fixtures and you'd love to see them playing Derry, Fermanagh, Cavan and Longford of division 3 North for a go at promotion.

You look at Division 2 North and it'd be interesting those teams up against the division 1 North teams in a group section to the championship.

Merging the division 1 and 2 geographical sections for a tier 1 and the division 3 and 4 sections within their geography for a tier 2 would be a better championship than the Provincial based system or some of the other mooted changes."
Are you old enough to remember the regionalised NFL of the early 80s ?
= North 16 / South 16, each with div 1, 2a & 2b of 6, 5 & 5 teams.

While it makes sense to keep lower divs local, I like the best teams going head-to-head nationally (Dubs/Mayo, Done/Kerry etc). Maybe div 1 with 2 mixed/national groups of 8, but div 2 with 2 regional groups of 8 ?

Or, for a longer 10-game league, split each 16 into 3 groups of 6, 5, 5 - with 5-team round robins and the 6 teams playing the other 10.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2032 - 02/06/2021 05:35:23    2347579

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Replying To omahant:  "Are you old enough to remember the regionalised NFL of the early 80s ?
= North 16 / South 16, each with div 1, 2a & 2b of 6, 5 & 5 teams.

While it makes sense to keep lower divs local, I like the best teams going head-to-head nationally (Dubs/Mayo, Done/Kerry etc). Maybe div 1 with 2 mixed/national groups of 8, but div 2 with 2 regional groups of 8 ?

Or, for a longer 10-game league, split each 16 into 3 groups of 6, 5, 5 - with 5-team round robins and the 6 teams playing the other 10."
It's before my time.

I can see where you're coming from on division 1 being a National group.

I guess I'm just thinking that they're talking about removing the traditional provincial line ups in favour of North, South, East and West regional groupings of 8 teams each.

I just think it doesn't solve a big problem with the provincial set up that the competition is divided into 4. You don't get as many interesting match ups that you'd like or that you can easily get a cluster of competitive teams and then lack competitive balance in the other areas.

If you'd the competition split into 2 rather than 4 and had 2 tiers, I think you'd have more of the match ups that teams want to be playing.

Yeah the best teams don't always play one another but that can also add to the sense of occasion to the latter stages.

If you split North/South one season then East/West the following season Connacht and Leinster rivalries wouldn't be lost.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3451 - 02/06/2021 09:58:35    2347598

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It would be interesting and refreshing to have East/West (even yrs) ebb and flo with North/South (odd yrs).
I'm sure Ulster would complain that their Prov would be split half the time, and Dubs would find East easier than South.
Northeast 16 / Southwest 16 could be an interesting tier 1/ tier 2 split, with potential for keeping Uls, and separately, Conn mostly intact.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2032 - 03/06/2021 06:02:55    2347881

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Southwest 16 = Conn + Muns + "Other 5" (Lond+Kild+Wick+Wex+Carl)
Northeast 16 = Uls + Lein - "South 4"
(Kild, Wick, Wex, Carl)

Tier 1
SW = Mayo, Galw, Rosc, Kerry, Cork, Clar, Tipp, Kild
NE = Dubs + Uls - Antr - Down

Tier 2
SW = Sligo + Leit + Lime + Water + "Other 5" - Kild
NE = Antr + Down + Lein - Dubs - "South 4"

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2032 - 03/06/2021 07:07:58    2347884

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Replying To omahant:  "Southwest 16 = Conn + Muns + "Other 5" (Lond+Kild+Wick+Wex+Carl)
Northeast 16 = Uls + Lein - "South 4"
(Kild, Wick, Wex, Carl)

Tier 1
SW = Mayo, Galw, Rosc, Kerry, Cork, Clar, Tipp, Kild
NE = Dubs + Uls - Antr - Down

Tier 2
SW = Sligo + Leit + Lime + Water + "Other 5" - Kild
NE = Antr + Down + Lein - Dubs - "South 4""
Yeah what I've thought about here is the following:

At the start of each season Ulster/Connacht and Leinster/Munster have 8 teams each already qualified for their regional league.

Leaves 7 in Ulster/Connacht and 9 in Munster/ Leinster.

You'd run a qualifier in each region for 2 more spots.

You end up with a 2 sections of 10.

Top 3 in each to All Ireland playoffs. Top 7 retain their place for the following season.

Tier 2 of 12 teams. 1 place in Ulster/Connacht and 1 place in Leinster/Munster is at stake for the following season.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3451 - 03/06/2021 13:47:48    2347973

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Replying To omahant:  "It would be interesting and refreshing to have East/West (even yrs) ebb and flo with North/South (odd yrs).
I'm sure Ulster would complain that their Prov would be split half the time, and Dubs would find East easier than South.
Northeast 16 / Southwest 16 could be an interesting tier 1/ tier 2 split, with potential for keeping Uls, and separately, Conn mostly intact."
I've also thought the 2 league season like they have in Latin American football would suit the GAA's need for more meaningful matches.

Run North/South in March and April, East/West in May and June.

Top 2 from each group through to playoffs. If a team qualifies twice they get a bye to the semifinals.

4 up, 4 down between tiers.

Every team gets a chance at the All Ireland.

Teams play a 14 game schedule at their level. 12 teams will play 2 championship 1 campaigns. 8 teams 1 at each tier. 12 teams play 2 championship 2 campaigns.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3451 - 04/06/2021 07:01:28    2348132

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ya 1 up / down is way too little movement. Only suits the teams currently at the top.

On the other hand 4 is crazy.

The current system is good. Teams can progress.

skirge7 (UK) - Posts: 76 - 04/06/2021 19:41:51    2348270

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Replying To skirge7:  "ya 1 up / down is way too little movement. Only suits the teams currently at the top.

On the other hand 4 is crazy.

The current system is good. Teams can progress."
Mine was 4 up 4 down from 16 in each division in 2 tiers.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3451 - 04/06/2021 20:18:02    2348274

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Replying To facethepuckout:  "A variant maybe, top of division n-1 gets promoted, bottom of n gets relegated. 2nd in n-1 plays 7th in n for promotion / relegation.
Would add drama and you would earn your promotion/ deserve your relegation."
Not the worst idea.

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 633 - 04/06/2021 23:05:26    2348329

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I've also thought the 2 league season like they have in Latin American football would suit the GAA's need for more meaningful matches.

Run North/South in March and April, East/West in May and June.

Top 2 from each group through to playoffs. If a team qualifies twice they get a bye to the semifinals.

4 up, 4 down between tiers.

Every team gets a chance at the All Ireland.

Teams play a 14 game schedule at their level. 12 teams will play 2 championship 1 campaigns. 8 teams 1 at each tier. 12 teams play 2 championship 2 campaigns."
Generally, I like it - but is 14 games in that 17-week span too much (ok everyone gets 3 weeks off, but still) ?
Maybe 3 tiers of 12, 12, 8 split into the 2 regions - 2 crossover games in tier 3, so all play 5 matches in each league - 3 up/3 down (only best 2nd goes up) - same 8 team (or less) tier 1 KO - teams can still move from Championship 3 to 1 within one year.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2032 - 05/06/2021 07:12:12    2348341

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Replying To Tacaí Liatroma:  "Not the worst idea."
Or, widen further -
1st & 8th automatic promo/releg
2nd hosts 7th and 6th hosts 3rd for 2 spots.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2032 - 05/06/2021 07:21:08    2348342

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