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RTE And This Constant "Henry Shefflin Is The Greatest Hurler Of All Time To Many"

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Replying To gatha:  "Obviously this is all opinion and you could pick numerous players and make an argument for them. Henry gets credit because He probably played in more big matches then anyone in the history of hurling. Especially with the system that is in place compared to 30 years ago. He also produced in most of those big games. When the game was in the fire he came through most of the time. That can't be discounted. Was he the most talented hurler ever i would say no. He wasn't the most talented hurler on those Kilkenny teams he played on. However he was very talented and more importantly he got the most out of what he had, more so then any other player I have seen. My top 5 would be DJ, Keher, JJ,Henry and Tommy."
Am too young to have seen Eddie play unfortunately but agree while Henry Shefflin was an inspirational player who turned many matches your way Tommy Walsh was just an unbelievable hurler. Carey probably the most exciting individual player to watch of the names you mentioned and JJ the hardest most consistent one.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11864 - 03/06/2021 16:54:09    2348029

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For me TJ Reid is right up there with any of the best players I've seen. He'll not retire with 10 All Ireland's but that's not a
criteria I would use as essential for picking the greatest. Plenty of super hurlers and footballers retire possibly without any.
On the Sunday game thing , I don't think Joanne Cantwell could be considered to be the most qualified or an automatic choice once Michael Lyster retired. Personally, I just think she is trying too hard to be seen to be asking edgier questions or pushing the panelist's to say something controversial.
Each to their own, but I wouldn't be a fan.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 03/06/2021 19:16:10    2348062

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Replying To gatha:  "Obviously this is all opinion and you could pick numerous players and make an argument for them. Henry gets credit because He probably played in more big matches then anyone in the history of hurling. Especially with the system that is in place compared to 30 years ago. He also produced in most of those big games. When the game was in the fire he came through most of the time. That can't be discounted. Was he the most talented hurler ever i would say no. He wasn't the most talented hurler on those Kilkenny teams he played on. However he was very talented and more importantly he got the most out of what he had, more so then any other player I have seen. My top 5 would be DJ, Keher, JJ,Henry and Tommy."
Henry Sheflin was a leader and stepped up to the mark when Kilkenny needed him a number of times. There were a lot of great hurlers on that Kilkenny team which is why it will go down as the greatest team of all time. For me DJ Carey was the greatest I have seen. Eddie Keher was before my time. DJ could carry teams on his own and there was always anticipation from the crowd every time he got the ball near the opposition goal.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1910 - 03/06/2021 19:51:03    2348068

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I remember being at a Kilkenny v galway match in thurlus 1997 and DJ scored 2-6 that day. He single handedly dragged Kilkenny back into that game. He was superb. Near the end he went to take a free from a bad angle in the town end and I'll never forget the chants of DJ DJ DJ. It sounded like the whole stadium was chanting. I've never seen the likes of it since. Brilliant stuff.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1909 - 03/06/2021 20:49:21    2348081

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "Henry Sheflin was a leader and stepped up to the mark when Kilkenny needed him a number of times. There were a lot of great hurlers on that Kilkenny team which is why it will go down as the greatest team of all time. For me DJ Carey was the greatest I have seen. Eddie Keher was before my time. DJ could carry teams on his own and there was always anticipation from the crowd every time he got the ball near the opposition goal."
An excellent post..the only thing is its one thing stepping up to the mark with lethal finishers all around you...not every county can do that, the star player gets the ball and if he doesnt do it himself it doesnt happen around him...I hear your point though...

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 1034 - 03/06/2021 20:51:56    2348082

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Replying To gatha:  "Obviously this is all opinion and you could pick numerous players and make an argument for them. Henry gets credit because He probably played in more big matches then anyone in the history of hurling. Especially with the system that is in place compared to 30 years ago. He also produced in most of those big games. When the game was in the fire he came through most of the time. That can't be discounted. Was he the most talented hurler ever i would say no. He wasn't the most talented hurler on those Kilkenny teams he played on. However he was very talented and more importantly he got the most out of what he had, more so then any other player I have seen. My top 5 would be DJ, Keher, JJ,Henry and Tommy."
I don't think any discussion would deny Henry's place as a great player. He had the supporting cast and lucky to be born in Kilkenny. Personally I would given Keher the nod as better not the greatest because that is not measurable. Eddie had a support cast of Purcell, Delaney, Chunky, Cummins, Crotty etc. All Irelands are used in this debate also. If Tony Browne who played when he was over 40 lived a couple of miles up the road how many All-Ireland's would he have. If Joe Henry lived in Galway instead of Mayo. The majority don't even know who he. I know it is a different subject but the GAA needs a modified structure where all the greats get to play at the highest level. Is there a top county who would not have Shane Conway on their team or Shane Brick before him.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 03/06/2021 21:10:36    2348092

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Replying To Canuck:  "I don't think any discussion would deny Henry's place as a great player. He had the supporting cast and lucky to be born in Kilkenny. Personally I would given Keher the nod as better not the greatest because that is not measurable. Eddie had a support cast of Purcell, Delaney, Chunky, Cummins, Crotty etc. All Irelands are used in this debate also. If Tony Browne who played when he was over 40 lived a couple of miles up the road how many All-Ireland's would he have. If Joe Henry lived in Galway instead of Mayo. The majority don't even know who he. I know it is a different subject but the GAA needs a modified structure where all the greats get to play at the highest level. Is there a top county who would not have Shane Conway on their team or Shane Brick before him."
We had such a competition which used to pack Croke Park before I was born but unfortunately the fickle supporters deserted it and it died a death as a result. Probably the GAA as a whole failed to promote it properly. If it was revived with a good sponsor maybe it would succeed in this day and age of money talking.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11864 - 03/06/2021 22:09:23    2348113

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Replying To Bon:  "I remember being at a Kilkenny v galway match in thurlus 1997 and DJ scored 2-6 that day. He single handedly dragged Kilkenny back into that game. He was superb. Near the end he went to take a free from a bad angle in the town end and I'll never forget the chants of DJ DJ DJ. It sounded like the whole stadium was chanting. I've never seen the likes of it since. Brilliant stuff."
Indeed I remember that game all too well. Galway were well on top in the first half and looked certain to win but DJ was unstoppable in the 2nd half and hauled them back into it and was the reason why Kilkenny won.
Then again I remember Shefflin in 2012 driving on Kilkenny in the 2012 All Ireland drawn final. Galway would have won that match only for Shefflin's leadership on the field and his great determination to succeed.
They were 2 great players. I don't see why anyone needs to be annoyed by someone saying that either of them is "the greatest player of all time to many". It is a factual statement --- many people DO think Shefflin is the greatest player ever and many others will disagree. Such is life.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1903 - 03/06/2021 22:26:39    2348119

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Replying To Canuck:  "I don't think any discussion would deny Henry's place as a great player. He had the supporting cast and lucky to be born in Kilkenny. Personally I would given Keher the nod as better not the greatest because that is not measurable. Eddie had a support cast of Purcell, Delaney, Chunky, Cummins, Crotty etc. All Irelands are used in this debate also. If Tony Browne who played when he was over 40 lived a couple of miles up the road how many All-Ireland's would he have. If Joe Henry lived in Galway instead of Mayo. The majority don't even know who he. I know it is a different subject but the GAA needs a modified structure where all the greats get to play at the highest level. Is there a top county who would not have Shane Conway on their team or Shane Brick before him."
You are correct, If Tony Browne or Shane Conway were born in Kilkenny, how many All Irelands would they have. The same with Brick Walsh. As another poster points out - the compensation/reward for a player who came from a weaker county previously was to win an All Star or to play on a railway cup team but the railway cup was allowed to die out and the All Stars are now geared exclusively towards players on teams that play in the All Ireland series. I don't believe that a star player like Shane Conway gets any recognition or reward for playing in a lesser competition that receives no promotion and no coverage from RTE. And to think that they want to do the same with the football championship!!! go figure.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1910 - 04/06/2021 10:02:00    2348144

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Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "Indeed I remember that game all too well. Galway were well on top in the first half and looked certain to win but DJ was unstoppable in the 2nd half and hauled them back into it and was the reason why Kilkenny won.
Then again I remember Shefflin in 2012 driving on Kilkenny in the 2012 All Ireland drawn final. Galway would have won that match only for Shefflin's leadership on the field and his great determination to succeed.
They were 2 great players. I don't see why anyone needs to be annoyed by someone saying that either of them is "the greatest player of all time to many". It is a factual statement --- many people DO think Shefflin is the greatest player ever and many others will disagree. Such is life."
Its just a privilege to have been alive to be able to see these players in action in their prime.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1909 - 04/06/2021 11:40:05    2348171

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Replying To Bon:  "Its just a privilege to have been alive to be able to see these players in action in their prime."
Spot on Bon. And there are players following them who are exciting to watch now and will be in the future.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11864 - 04/06/2021 12:59:14    2348199

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "You are correct, If Tony Browne or Shane Conway were born in Kilkenny, how many All Irelands would they have. The same with Brick Walsh. As another poster points out - the compensation/reward for a player who came from a weaker county previously was to win an All Star or to play on a railway cup team but the railway cup was allowed to die out and the All Stars are now geared exclusively towards players on teams that play in the All Ireland series. I don't believe that a star player like Shane Conway gets any recognition or reward for playing in a lesser competition that receives no promotion and no coverage from RTE. And to think that they want to do the same with the football championship!!! go figure."
Excellent point Wicklow. There are great players on all teams, like those you mention, but only the players on the successful counties get the national acclaim.

MicktheMiller (Offaly) - Posts: 421 - 04/06/2021 14:57:55    2348223

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "You are correct, If Tony Browne or Shane Conway were born in Kilkenny, how many All Irelands would they have. The same with Brick Walsh. As another poster points out - the compensation/reward for a player who came from a weaker county previously was to win an All Star or to play on a railway cup team but the railway cup was allowed to die out and the All Stars are now geared exclusively towards players on teams that play in the All Ireland series. I don't believe that a star player like Shane Conway gets any recognition or reward for playing in a lesser competition that receives no promotion and no coverage from RTE. And to think that they want to do the same with the football championship!!! go figure."
Yes the recognition though always small is now totally non existence. I don't know of a sport where there is not a path to the top for participants. I support the county system but do we always have to be completely tribal 150 years on. I find it so funny when people spout the game has moved on and you can't go back but these people want to maintain status quo in referring technology, provincial championship, completely failed promotion and relegation systems.
There are may options that could be explored for team formation to get these top players around the country playing for the McCarthy and Sam while still maintain the county structure. It would just take some thinking outside the box. Imagine what it would do for hurling in Wicklow or Football in Waterford if they had a players involved at the top. Some how or other you got to think it is designed as is, to keep things as they are.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 04/06/2021 17:07:56    2348249

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Replying To MicktheMiller:  "Excellent point Wicklow. There are great players on all teams, like those you mention, but only the players on the successful counties get the national acclaim."
I agree with you but to be fair its the same in any sporting code unfortunately.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1909 - 04/06/2021 17:47:21    2348254

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Replying To Bon:  "I agree with you but to be fair its the same in any sporting code unfortunately."
Don't necessarily agree with that Bon. Most other sports allow talent to rise to the top, whereas in the GAA you could be the greatest hurler in the country but if you're born in the wrong County you're doomed to obscurity.
If DJ Carey was born in Westmeath he would never have made it any further than getting a quick mention in the highlights at the end of Sunday sport

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1708 - 04/06/2021 18:29:13    2348258

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Replying To Galway9801:  "Don't necessarily agree with that Bon. Most other sports allow talent to rise to the top, whereas in the GAA you could be the greatest hurler in the country but if you're born in the wrong County you're doomed to obscurity.
If DJ Carey was born in Westmeath he would never have made it any further than getting a quick mention in the highlights at the end of Sunday sport"
Point taken, that's quite true actually. The geography especially in Hurling is a huge thing with so few top tier counties. Its a shame really.
Sure you might have heard of me if I wasn't born in kildare!!!

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1909 - 04/06/2021 20:43:40    2348281

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Replying To Canuck:  "Yes the recognition though always small is now totally non existence. I don't know of a sport where there is not a path to the top for participants. I support the county system but do we always have to be completely tribal 150 years on. I find it so funny when people spout the game has moved on and you can't go back but these people want to maintain status quo in referring technology, provincial championship, completely failed promotion and relegation systems.
There are may options that could be explored for team formation to get these top players around the country playing for the McCarthy and Sam while still maintain the county structure. It would just take some thinking outside the box. Imagine what it would do for hurling in Wicklow or Football in Waterford if they had a players involved at the top. Some how or other you got to think it is designed as is, to keep things as they are."
We had the Railway Cup. What's wrong with bringing it back with proper promotion and sponsorship? Lads like McManus, Conway, Doyle, and King and many others would have a proper stage to play with and against their equals. At the end of the day inter county competition is by it's very definition inter county. If you relax the rules regarding inter county transfers and Conway moves to Limerick, McManus to Dublin, Doyle to Kilkenny and King to Clare for talks sake where will that leave hurling in Laois, Kerry, Westmeath and Antrim?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11864 - 04/06/2021 21:08:38    2348292

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Replying To Galway9801:  "Don't necessarily agree with that Bon. Most other sports allow talent to rise to the top, whereas in the GAA you could be the greatest hurler in the country but if you're born in the wrong County you're doomed to obscurity.
If DJ Carey was born in Westmeath he would never have made it any further than getting a quick mention in the highlights at the end of Sunday sport"
Nicky Rackard said that it was a huge honour to play for Leinster at a time when Wexford hadnt yet made the breakthrough they did in the 50s. Jimmy Smyth also felt it was a great honour to play for the province. It would need to be properly promoted and sponsored if it was to come back.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11864 - 04/06/2021 21:14:22    2348296

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Replying To Viking66:  "Nicky Rackard said that it was a huge honour to play for Leinster at a time when Wexford hadnt yet made the breakthrough they did in the 50s. Jimmy Smyth also felt it was a great honour to play for the province. It would need to be properly promoted and sponsored if it was to come back."
If the same interest was put into promoting the Railway Cup as is being put into the International Rules ..... but the Railway Cup was never an all expenses paid junket

johnocarroll17 (Limerick) - Posts: 408 - 04/06/2021 21:58:44    2348310

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Replying To Galway9801:  "Don't necessarily agree with that Bon. Most other sports allow talent to rise to the top, whereas in the GAA you could be the greatest hurler in the country but if you're born in the wrong County you're doomed to obscurity.
If DJ Carey was born in Westmeath he would never have made it any further than getting a quick mention in the highlights at the end of Sunday sport"
Spot on, hard to argue with what you say.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4896 - 04/06/2021 22:51:22    2348325

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