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Looking at Kerry against the Dubs last Sunday they reminded me of Tyrone back in 2003. All energy and buzz out the field with some terrific forwards capable of putting together big scores. But as in the Ulster final of that year the lack of a high fielding full back was their Achilles Heel. Down raised a number of easy green flags. Mickey Harte brought back midfielder Cormac McAnallen for the replay and Tyrone were on the way to their first All Ireland. The game is changed somewhat since 2003 but you still need those safe hands, a steadying influence in front of your goalkeeper. Every time the Dubs attacked you could see goals coming and sure enough they raised four green flags. The days of the solid, hard hitting, six foot two plus number three are gone, instead you require a certain amount of mobility and real ball skill as well. Strange that Kerry with their historical record of producing fine fielders are struggling in this position and have done so for years. Often players are tagged, they start off as a free scoring forward, this scoring ability reduces with age but the selectors automatically retain them in that position for their entire career. Tom Spillane's young fella has generally operated in the full forward line but he strikes me as someone who could offer more a lot more at the other end of the pitch. Certainly if he was half as good as his auld fella he would fit the bill. This is no reflection on the other Kingdom inner defenders who are all fine footballers. But if Peter Keane does not fill this vital position then Kerry are going to walk away empty handed again this year. Wonder what the Kerry readers feel about the situation.
Marooning (Westmeath) - Posts: 24 - 28/05/2021 12:38:19
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Replying To Marooning: "Looking at Kerry against the Dubs last Sunday they reminded me of Tyrone back in 2003. All energy and buzz out the field with some terrific forwards capable of putting together big scores. But as in the Ulster final of that year the lack of a high fielding full back was their Achilles Heel. Down raised a number of easy green flags. Mickey Harte brought back midfielder Cormac McAnallen for the replay and Tyrone were on the way to their first All Ireland. The game is changed somewhat since 2003 but you still need those safe hands, a steadying influence in front of your goalkeeper. Every time the Dubs attacked you could see goals coming and sure enough they raised four green flags. The days of the solid, hard hitting, six foot two plus number three are gone, instead you require a certain amount of mobility and real ball skill as well. Strange that Kerry with their historical record of producing fine fielders are struggling in this position and have done so for years. Often players are tagged, they start off as a free scoring forward, this scoring ability reduces with age but the selectors automatically retain them in that position for their entire career. Tom Spillane's young fella has generally operated in the full forward line but he strikes me as someone who could offer more a lot more at the other end of the pitch. Certainly if he was half as good as his auld fella he would fit the bill. This is no reflection on the other Kingdom inner defenders who are all fine footballers. But if Peter Keane does not fill this vital position then Kerry are going to walk away empty handed again this year. Wonder what the Kerry readers feel about the situation." Ah look, they were caught badly last year by taking their eye off the ball and it'll be talked up as being a great competition and all that aul codswallop but sure look it , tis going to be back to a cake walk this year and there's no doubt about it.
Kerry don't need any great improvement in midfield sure the referee usually compensates for them for any shortcomings that might exist in that position.
Sure haven't them boys been getting all the big calls over the years from referees.
It's does be like Moses parting the waves for them on the path to the promised land with referees.
"Here ye go boys all ye have to do is turn up and I'll do the rest ".
catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 28/05/2021 20:12:26
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Replying To catch22: "Ah look, they were caught badly last year by taking their eye off the ball and it'll be talked up as being a great competition and all that aul codswallop but sure look it , tis going to be back to a cake walk this year and there's no doubt about it.
Kerry don't need any great improvement in midfield sure the referee usually compensates for them for any shortcomings that might exist in that position.
Sure haven't them boys been getting all the big calls over the years from referees.
It's does be like Moses parting the waves for them on the path to the promised land with referees.
"Here ye go boys all ye have to do is turn up and I'll do the rest "." Ah Iill say one thing for you catch you make me laugh anyway with your pathetic efforts of trying to wind up. You obviously feel so inferior to Kerry people you have to try talk bad of their achievements all the time. On refs it has been spoken many times the Kerry have been unlucky in 2 all Irelands in particular for refs being harsh on them. That is spoken by neutrals.I would think you know that yourself or maybe you living in a fantasy land.There are posters on here that don't like Kerry and that's fair enough. Some because of their success and some because Kerry are always a threat to them. With you though I detect a totally hatred and fear because you bears the scars of hurt bestowed upon you by either a Kerry team or a Kerry person. You have even the bottle to admit where you re from. But listen catch. Don't worry. Not all of us in Kerry gave to be feared. Some of us are not bad people. Our countrymen for years have brought our skills and heritage to many other counties and countries and many children of Kerry folk helped counties like Dublin win many all Irelands.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3678 - 28/05/2021 21:22:40
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Ah Michael, you couldn't be more wrong.
You be flattering yourself now if you think I give a whole pile of thought to being in fear of anything Kerry.
That's only natural though I suppose with you being from Kerry and the bit of arrogance that comes with it I suppose.
Enjoy the football year ahead and sure don't getting yourself upset like.
catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 28/05/2021 21:34:32
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Replying To catch22: "Ah Michael, you couldn't be more wrong.
You be flattering yourself now if you think I give a whole pile of thought to being in fear of anything Kerry.
That's only natural though I suppose with you being from Kerry and the bit of arrogance that comes with it I suppose.
Enjoy the football year ahead and sure don't getting yourself upset like." Ah now I'm not flattering myself at all. I just know that most of your posts have a Kerry theme to them but fear and hurt will always cause that. Try not to take it personally. We all have our crosses to bear. As the great John B. Keane said "Being a Kerryman is the greatest gift God can bestow on any man. You know when you belong to Kerry you know you have a head start on the other fellow" It's a hard burden to carry but don't be jealous. I as a Kerryman apologise for the hurt either Kerry as a team or a Kerry person as an individual has caused to you. Sure even the main street in Dublin is called after a Kerryman. Finally gaa is a sport so try not to get too upset when counties you don't like win. You are one of those sado s that get more pleasure from other woes than your own successes.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3678 - 28/05/2021 21:48:48
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Replying To catch22: "Ah Michael, you couldn't be more wrong.
You be flattering yourself now if you think I give a whole pile of thought to being in fear of anything Kerry.
That's only natural though I suppose with you being from Kerry and the bit of arrogance that comes with it I suppose.
Enjoy the football year ahead and sure don't getting yourself upset like." You give Kerry no thought yet you're on every thread about them.
oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 28/05/2021 22:00:07
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Replying To Marooning: "Looking at Kerry against the Dubs last Sunday they reminded me of Tyrone back in 2003. All energy and buzz out the field with some terrific forwards capable of putting together big scores. But as in the Ulster final of that year the lack of a high fielding full back was their Achilles Heel. Down raised a number of easy green flags. Mickey Harte brought back midfielder Cormac McAnallen for the replay and Tyrone were on the way to their first All Ireland. The game is changed somewhat since 2003 but you still need those safe hands, a steadying influence in front of your goalkeeper. Every time the Dubs attacked you could see goals coming and sure enough they raised four green flags. The days of the solid, hard hitting, six foot two plus number three are gone, instead you require a certain amount of mobility and real ball skill as well. Strange that Kerry with their historical record of producing fine fielders are struggling in this position and have done so for years. Often players are tagged, they start off as a free scoring forward, this scoring ability reduces with age but the selectors automatically retain them in that position for their entire career. Tom Spillane's young fella has generally operated in the full forward line but he strikes me as someone who could offer more a lot more at the other end of the pitch. Certainly if he was half as good as his auld fella he would fit the bill. This is no reflection on the other Kingdom inner defenders who are all fine footballers. But if Peter Keane does not fill this vital position then Kerry are going to walk away empty handed again this year. Wonder what the Kerry readers feel about the situation." Looking at it last weekend. I think Dublin used a different tactic in each quarter. I think that was purposeful experimentation, probing the Kerry backline. One of many take homes, I think, is that Kerry defence is built off the blanket, bodies back and swarm.
Probably one of our most successful quarters was when we kicked it high over the blanket and Kerry couldn't get bodies back quick enough. We were out in front of their defenders winning our own ball and winning high ball in the square. Kerry's backs didn't look comfortable under the high ball at all. It had the added bonus, of Kerry trying to compensate by brining men back and separating most of the first 8 from the forward line.
We changed tact in the second half and tried the forward attacking press that served us well, but we looked rusty with it and it suited the blanket and Kerry are very good on the break, still it's good to be testing out different parts of your Arsenal in the league.
We have stumbled on a decent tactic though the long and high ball, the Kerry back line seemed to struggle with, wonder will other counties have taken note.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 28/05/2021 22:49:23
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Replying To Marooning: "Looking at Kerry against the Dubs last Sunday they reminded me of Tyrone back in 2003. All energy and buzz out the field with some terrific forwards capable of putting together big scores. But as in the Ulster final of that year the lack of a high fielding full back was their Achilles Heel. Down raised a number of easy green flags. Mickey Harte brought back midfielder Cormac McAnallen for the replay and Tyrone were on the way to their first All Ireland. The game is changed somewhat since 2003 but you still need those safe hands, a steadying influence in front of your goalkeeper. Every time the Dubs attacked you could see goals coming and sure enough they raised four green flags. The days of the solid, hard hitting, six foot two plus number three are gone, instead you require a certain amount of mobility and real ball skill as well. Strange that Kerry with their historical record of producing fine fielders are struggling in this position and have done so for years. Often players are tagged, they start off as a free scoring forward, this scoring ability reduces with age but the selectors automatically retain them in that position for their entire career. Tom Spillane's young fella has generally operated in the full forward line but he strikes me as someone who could offer more a lot more at the other end of the pitch. Certainly if he was half as good as his auld fella he would fit the bill. This is no reflection on the other Kingdom inner defenders who are all fine footballers. But if Peter Keane does not fill this vital position then Kerry are going to walk away empty handed again this year. Wonder what the Kerry readers feel about the situation." Very interesting comments Marooning and you know I often wondered myself could Adrian Spillane do a job center back but never though of full back. Now that's thinking outside the box and might be worth a gamble. He plays most of his football midfield and some of the best full backs I've ever seen were originally midfielders like Johhno Keefe Darren Fay etc. U 20 Stefan Okunbar looked like a real good fb but he s gone to Oz. I agree Kerry need defense to shore up. T. Morley is good but needs probably be stronger in the half line. Enjoyed your post a chara.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3678 - 28/05/2021 23:08:24
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Replying To TheUsername: "Looking at it last weekend. I think Dublin used a different tactic in each quarter. I think that was purposeful experimentation, probing the Kerry backline. One of many take homes, I think, is that Kerry defence is built off the blanket, bodies back and swarm.
Probably one of our most successful quarters was when we kicked it high over the blanket and Kerry couldn't get bodies back quick enough. We were out in front of their defenders winning our own ball and winning high ball in the square. Kerry's backs didn't look comfortable under the high ball at all. It had the added bonus, of Kerry trying to compensate by brining men back and separating most of the first 8 from the forward line.
We changed tact in the second half and tried the forward attacking press that served us well, but we looked rusty with it and it suited the blanket and Kerry are very good on the break, still it's good to be testing out different parts of your Arsenal in the league.
We have stumbled on a decent tactic though the long and high ball, the Kerry back line seemed to struggle with, wonder will other counties have taken note." I'm not sure Username.Kery can be porous at the back but I'm not sure they any worse than Dublin or some other counties with the high ball. Yes Kerry were caught by Cork last year by a high ball and while two of goals last week came as a result of high balls one was a slip and the other a silly foul for a penalty.Dublin over the last few years having struggled under the high ball have played a sweeper in front of their full back behind their blanket and that has been fairly successful. While I do think Kerry s defense has problems I genuinely don't think they are any weaker than others under the high ball. However maybe they should use the sweeper tactic for the championship.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3678 - 28/05/2021 23:27:14
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Replying To TheUsername: "Looking at it last weekend. I think Dublin used a different tactic in each quarter. I think that was purposeful experimentation, probing the Kerry backline. One of many take homes, I think, is that Kerry defence is built off the blanket, bodies back and swarm.
Probably one of our most successful quarters was when we kicked it high over the blanket and Kerry couldn't get bodies back quick enough. We were out in front of their defenders winning our own ball and winning high ball in the square. Kerry's backs didn't look comfortable under the high ball at all. It had the added bonus, of Kerry trying to compensate by brining men back and separating most of the first 8 from the forward line.
We changed tact in the second half and tried the forward attacking press that served us well, but we looked rusty with it and it suited the blanket and Kerry are very good on the break, still it's good to be testing out different parts of your Arsenal in the league.
We have stumbled on a decent tactic though the long and high ball, the Kerry back line seemed to struggle with, wonder will other counties have taken note." I think that 4 different tactics stuff is either giving way too much credit to Dessie Farrell or else wishful thinking. Dublin stumbled upon 3 easy goals in the first half through poor Kerry defending but their forwards found the going tough in the second half. I highly doubt any master tactical analysis was going on.
Kerry15 (Kerry) - Posts: 959 - 28/05/2021 23:32:24
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Replying To TheUsername: "Looking at it last weekend. I think Dublin used a different tactic in each quarter. I think that was purposeful experimentation, probing the Kerry backline. One of many take homes, I think, is that Kerry defence is built off the blanket, bodies back and swarm.
Probably one of our most successful quarters was when we kicked it high over the blanket and Kerry couldn't get bodies back quick enough. We were out in front of their defenders winning our own ball and winning high ball in the square. Kerry's backs didn't look comfortable under the high ball at all. It had the added bonus, of Kerry trying to compensate by brining men back and separating most of the first 8 from the forward line.
We changed tact in the second half and tried the forward attacking press that served us well, but we looked rusty with it and it suited the blanket and Kerry are very good on the break, still it's good to be testing out different parts of your Arsenal in the league.
We have stumbled on a decent tactic though the long and high ball, the Kerry back line seemed to struggle with, wonder will other counties have taken note." Are you looking for attention multi? It's gas a fella starts a thread about Kerry and you start talking about dublin, this is like 2 weeks ago when you started talking about what team dessie would pick for yer game against Roscommon on the Kerry v Galway thread :-) you don't like people talking about us do you?
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 28/05/2021 23:58:17
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Replying To catch22: "Ah Michael, you couldn't be more wrong.
You be flattering yourself now if you think I give a whole pile of thought to being in fear of anything Kerry.
That's only natural though I suppose with you being from Kerry and the bit of arrogance that comes with it I suppose.
Enjoy the football year ahead and sure don't getting yourself upset like." You don't give a whole pile of thought to Kerry? Really?
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 29/05/2021 09:21:19
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Replying To TheUsername: "Looking at it last weekend. I think Dublin used a different tactic in each quarter. I think that was purposeful experimentation, probing the Kerry backline. One of many take homes, I think, is that Kerry defence is built off the blanket, bodies back and swarm.
Probably one of our most successful quarters was when we kicked it high over the blanket and Kerry couldn't get bodies back quick enough. We were out in front of their defenders winning our own ball and winning high ball in the square. Kerry's backs didn't look comfortable under the high ball at all. It had the added bonus, of Kerry trying to compensate by brining men back and separating most of the first 8 from the forward line.
We changed tact in the second half and tried the forward attacking press that served us well, but we looked rusty with it and it suited the blanket and Kerry are very good on the break, still it's good to be testing out different parts of your Arsenal in the league.
We have stumbled on a decent tactic though the long and high ball, the Kerry back line seemed to struggle with, wonder will other counties have taken note." LOL
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 29/05/2021 09:51:02
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "I'm not sure Username.Kery can be porous at the back but I'm not sure they any worse than Dublin or some other counties with the high ball. Yes Kerry were caught by Cork last year by a high ball and while two of goals last week came as a result of high balls one was a slip and the other a silly foul for a penalty.Dublin over the last few years having struggled under the high ball have played a sweeper in front of their full back behind their blanket and that has been fairly successful. While I do think Kerry s defense has problems I genuinely don't think they are any weaker than others under the high ball. However maybe they should use the sweeper tactic for the championship." Id forgot about Cork Mick i suppose it was evident there too now that you mention. Just an observation and a personal reflection. I thought Kerry really struggled to win kicked ball at the back and struggled with high ball. They got to grips with it more in the second half. Its a take home for anyone watching and something Kerry will have to work on.
The high ball is something we have had to work on alright. after Rory left. We used to rotate either Jamsie, Phily and a couple of others in there if we came up against a Murphy, McShane, Donaghty etc. I wouldn't say our sweeper was for the high ball more the big gapping whole down the central channel Donegal exposed. The high ball and us is a bit of myth, the only game i think were we were beaten by high balls in was Tyrone in the league in think in 2018 - the year Mayo won. Though its fair to say teams might have gotten the odd score or goal from it.
Kerry are what 3/4 years into the development of this team, they arent new kids on the block any more and will be asked different questions by different teams, that comes with relative success and ambition - teams playing their own blankets and hitting high ball etc - its all ahead of yee.
Just my opinion mind, i thought the Kerry backline looked very suspect to kicking ball into them last week and also looked weak under the high ball. As i say i thought it also isolated the front line for the phases it happened. Its the time of the year to be identifying these things and improving for the Champo.
All opinions mind.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 29/05/2021 11:20:09
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Replying To Kerry15: "I think that 4 different tactics stuff is either giving way too much credit to Dessie Farrell or else wishful thinking. Dublin stumbled upon 3 easy goals in the first half through poor Kerry defending but their forwards found the going tough in the second half. I highly doubt any master tactical analysis was going on." They didn't stumble upon 3 easy goals. They worked all 3 through with such ease it was frightening.
lilylanger (Kildare) - Posts: 758 - 29/05/2021 11:42:30
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Replying To TheUsername: "Id forgot about Cork Mick i suppose it was evident there too now that you mention. Just an observation and a personal reflection. I thought Kerry really struggled to win kicked ball at the back and struggled with high ball. They got to grips with it more in the second half. Its a take home for anyone watching and something Kerry will have to work on.
The high ball is something we have had to work on alright. after Rory left. We used to rotate either Jamsie, Phily and a couple of others in there if we came up against a Murphy, McShane, Donaghty etc. I wouldn't say our sweeper was for the high ball more the big gapping whole down the central channel Donegal exposed. The high ball and us is a bit of myth, the only game i think were we were beaten by high balls in was Tyrone in the league in think in 2018 - the year Mayo won. Though its fair to say teams might have gotten the odd score or goal from it.
Kerry are what 3/4 years into the development of this team, they arent new kids on the block any more and will be asked different questions by different teams, that comes with relative success and ambition - teams playing their own blankets and hitting high ball etc - its all ahead of yee.
Just my opinion mind, i thought the Kerry backline looked very suspect to kicking ball into them last week and also looked weak under the high ball. As i say i thought it also isolated the front line for the phases it happened. Its the time of the year to be identifying these things and improving for the Champo.
All opinions mind." Ah well time will tell I suppose but I'd be more more about being ran at than the high ball. Tom ó Sullivan is a good man marker and he back now but not the tallest. Graham Ó Sullivan is starting tomorrow and we have high hopes for him. On Dublin they were caught v Galway also in 18 in all ireland semi and nearly always protect their full back line. I think most teams are suspect under high ball unless they play the sweeper.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3678 - 29/05/2021 12:30:34
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Tommy Walsh gave one of the finest exhibitions of fielding for Kerry In the drawn AI minor final in 06. He picked some amount of ball out of the sky at midfield. Maybe football has changed to allow that role for him now?
TippRed (Tipperary) - Posts: 42 - 29/05/2021 13:17:34
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Replying To TippRed: "Tommy Walsh gave one of the finest exhibitions of fielding for Kerry In the drawn AI minor final in 06. He picked some amount of ball out of the sky at midfield. Maybe football has changed to allow that role for him now?" True TippRed. He still a fantastic fielder but his shooting can be a bit askew since he came back from Oz.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3678 - 29/05/2021 13:27:00
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "Ah well time will tell I suppose but I'd be more more about being ran at than the high ball. Tom ó Sullivan is a good man marker and he back now but not the tallest. Graham Ó Sullivan is starting tomorrow and we have high hopes for him. On Dublin they were caught v Galway also in 18 in all ireland semi and nearly always protect their full back line. I think most teams are suspect under high ball unless they play the sweeper." Very true, a good 15 mins of madness, via St Stephen saving a penalty, the last 1 mins in the semi Vs you guys as well in 16 i think it was. Definitely been phases were high ball has caused problems but more thinking of games we've lost because of it and there are none really - i remember Keane trying to kick it high and long for the first 15 mins of the second game in 19 and we just gobbled it up and undermined the first quarter for Kerry. Tyrone in the league in 18 (the one were Paddy Andrews broke his jaw) the only one ive seen were been beaten - Davey Byrne got a roasting. We havent really played with a sweeper now for a couple of seasons to my mind, teams dont attack enough against which may they should.
Fair play, one to watch its the time of the year were you want your frailties exposed. We'l take home the Kerry high press we saw in the second half last week and come up with something around that. Thought Kerry were well drilled and coached on our attacking blanket, so that all good. But i think Dublin will be taking home the kicking in to the Kerry back line and high ball.
I agree on the running to, but i think that tactic gives you time to flood back and swarm so you have a 50/50 chance. The problem Kerry have with Dublin is what to do with Fenton, you can put JB on him and nullify him, but Fenton just takes him on a walk and leave space for the half backs to get the Kerry defensive lines - like the finals in 19, i think our half back line won us the All Ireland from an attacking point of view with the sapce left Barry marking Fenton. You can drop the extra man back with 3 in midfield but it leaves you that bit short upfront. A job of work on the attack plan going forward.
Tom O S is a player i enjoy, and best of luck to young Graham, i thought he was a midfielder - big lad if im thinking of the right fella.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 29/05/2021 13:32:52
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Kerry don't need a catcher. They need a burster or a breaker. I already posted this message on the Kerry forum a day or two after the game. Read it, and learn about how to defend under the high ball coming down around the goals.
" I watched the game back again just now.
Both teams when they attack at pace and run at the opposing defense are deadly dangerous. And it's almost impossible to defend against speed and space, when you're on the back foot. So, I wouldn't consider Con's first goal for example, a soft goal. Dublin held the ball very well, seemingly going nowhere fast, but then suddenly they get the angles right, ratchet things up to full speed, and the ball is in the net. I consider that an excellent goal. I doubt if any team could defend against such a maneuver. Similarly, with the Kerry goal that was pulled back for the free.
However, what surprised me, and disappointed me as well, was Kerry's vulnerability under the high ball in around the goals. High balls should be defenders balls all day long...bread and butter stuff. I don't care how strong Con is, not even the great Jacko should be allowed catch that type of ball.
But the good thing is that it's an easy enough thing to coach, or should be. The defender never attempts to catch the ball when going up against the forward. One hand should be holding Con's wrist (a foul yes, but have you ever seen frees given for it? Never). The defender's other fist should go through the ball, and drive it 30-40 yards out the field.
It's one of the most basic skills of the game. Donaghy would be a great man to coach it, I suspect, becoz what I've just described happened to him, time out of mind. Tommy Griffin should have all the defenders up to speed on how to deal with high balls in, and if they meet in the championship again, Con should not be allowed dominate the air...same goes for McShane and McKenna of Tyrone.
foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 359 - 24/05/2021 13:08:43 "
foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 1932 - 29/05/2021 13:48:36
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