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It would pay these fellas to watch a few All-Irelands even from the 90's, they can talk all they like about "winning is all that matters", they must think no team at all won in the past :-). Trying to be talking all posh and sophisticated, making a simple game complicated. They forget the bigger picture of course, that most neutrals wont watch the sort of tripe many of them are playing, pansying around trying to feel like they are Barcelona for 70 minutes, afraid or unable to back themselves. I'll tell you this, if they came up against a few of the greats of the past, they wouldn't get too much time for pansying around. AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 26/05/2021 20:44:06 2345764 Link 2 |
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I've been at every All Ireland Senior football final since 1972 apart from last year's. The best of the modern day footballers would hold their own against the great footballers of the past.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6181 - 26/05/2021 22:22:01 2345777 Link 6 |
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The only thing they would hold their own with is peeing against a wall.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3119 - 26/05/2021 22:35:25 2345778 Link 0 |
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I've been there since 1974, and I'd agree with you.
realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8808 - 26/05/2021 22:37:41 2345780 Link 2 |
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Easy to say that when you're sitting in a free seat for the last half a century, the only thing they'd hold is the ball and deprive proper footballers of playing the game.
AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 26/05/2021 23:13:26 2345784 Link 0 |
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Ah come on. Modern footballers would beat the footballers of the past into oblivion, never mind hold their own. With strength, fitness, conditioning, and ball control, a modern team would run rings around any team of the past. I'd even hazard that a modern team not classed as a top team (Division 2 maybe) would probably have too much for a team of the past from the 80s or whatever. Said it here before, TG4 gold has us thinking football was great those days. It wasn't always. Modern players would run around them Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2480 - 27/05/2021 07:57:17 2345798 Link 3 |
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Some football was good in those days but nostalgia ain't what it used to be. There were brutal games too but I think intercounty players then probably enjoyed it more. A few pints during the season, shi+e pitches, feck all live games on the the telly and no-one on Snapchat selling the craic to some redtop. They took it seriously but not too seriously. In 2021 clubs pay video analysts to tag games, break down players catches, blocks, right foot kicks, left foot kicks, movement left, right, everything broken down to the yin-yang of their direct opponent and they need to know all this coming up to the game. Club players! Not to mention diet plans, S&C, drink bans, tactics, sports psychology. For intercounty players, endorsements, brand ambassador cars, camera phones everywhere waiting for them to step an inch out of line. A massive commitment compared to years ago but it's no surprise if they're fitter, stronger, better prepared. Enjoyment-wise, I'm not so sure. GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8151 - 27/05/2021 09:54:16 2345809 Link 4 |
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I think those games on All Ireland gold are a horrible watch in comparison to today. The number of times I'll think why are you shooting from there and then even in spots where they should be shooting the execution is way worse than you'd expect today.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4600 - 27/05/2021 10:02:56 2345813 Link 5 |
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My point is that it's not a risk because the better open football was around before the advent of the advanced mark. Whatever though, I don't think we're going to agree here anyway.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4600 - 27/05/2021 10:04:46 2345814 Link 4 |
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I like your point because you have helped make mine to. You talk of "modern footballers", of strength, fitness, conditioning, "ball control", putting the lowest skill of the game up on a pedestal and of "modern players" running around them. It's telling that not one of you have mentioned the football at all, of men being able to play man on man, win their own ball, take their scores and think on their feet. Of course they didn't have the same strength and conditioning, sure we all we all know that so it's not even a point, they were amateur players who relied on their natural fitness and skill. If you were to put them on the same level of S&C and lifestyle of the "modern players" as you call them I believe their natural ability would win out. Too many people going soft in Ireland. AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 27/05/2021 10:17:00 2345816 Link 0 |
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It may be a coincidence but I'd say it's unlikely. The focus here is always on intercounty football, but many club sides had become unwatchable too and many were successful with the ultra defensive style. There was no Dublin equivalent at club level to beat that system, but last year it was clear the game at that level was opening up also and the advanced mark was having an influence. When the black card was brought in there were calls over the first couple of years to have it scrapped again, them calls have largely died off now. There is always a resistance to change in GAA, focusing on what the negative outcomes might be rather than the positive ones. Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 27/05/2021 11:04:59 2345835 Link 0 |
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I get every one of your points. And I do agree, although I did say ball control, and I do think that has got better too. But that doesn't count for much if you can't keep up with your marker, if they run rings around you, and if they can muscle you off the ball. For better or worse, players today are more athletic and they'll be able to grind down natural ballers off the field if they do not have similar athletic quality
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2480 - 27/05/2021 11:21:19 2345842 Link 0 |
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Completely agree. I don't think it is as fun for them as it used to be, just simply pointing it out as it is. They're basically professional, and it has taken something out of the game
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2480 - 27/05/2021 11:22:34 2345844 Link 0 |
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I'm not sure about that either. 2017 we won a club championship and much of the work we were putting in training wise was spent on finding space between the gaps in mass defence. It was all we worked on, kick out strategy was a big focus too but the game had already started to move onwards. 2014 post Dublin's semi final defeat to Donegal solutions were being worked on to beat the counter attacking teams. 2017 semi final was the death knell for counter attacking teams. They still existed but those with aspirations of winning/rather than keeping the score down had moved on. It had hit club level 100% by 2017, there are probably remnants playing a very reactive style at club level. 2019 we came up against a very reactive team that we lost to in a game we played very badly in. Good club teams and managers are keeping themselves current. Intercounty leads but club follows quickly behind. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4600 - 27/05/2021 11:52:21 2345851 Link 5 |
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Yes but they are only more athletic today because they have more time and more facilities and a huge backroom team. It didn't matter back then because no one else was doing what they are doing today, so the only real advantage you had was mainly down to your natural footballing ability. We don't look at what we do today in the same eyes as what someone in 40 years time will do, and look back then and say, OMG, look the way they were playing in 2021, look at the clothes people were wearing or those things called cars they were driving. Nobody spoke then of the advantages of money when they came to talking about All-Irelands, they spoke of the great players and some of the great games at the time. Now a player scores a good point and "It's outrageous" "audacious" or "incredible" , I listen to this and I just shake my head, an adult scores a good point doing something he's been doing since he was knee high to a grasshopper, that's what I mean about people going soft. AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 27/05/2021 12:00:08 2345852 Link 0 |
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Yes but they are only more athletic today because they have more time and more facilities and a huge backroom team. It didn't matter back then because no one else was doing what they are doing today, so the only real advantage you had was mainly down to your natural footballing ability. We don't look at what we do today in the same eyes as what someone in 40 years time will do, and look back then and say, OMG, look the way they were playing in 2021, look at the clothes people were wearing or those things called cars they were driving. Nobody spoke then of the advantages of money when they came to talking about All-Irelands, they spoke of the great players and some of the great games at the time. Now a player scores a good point and "It's outrageous" "audacious" or "incredible" , I listen to this and I just shake my head, an adult scores a good point doing something he's been doing since he was knee high to a grasshopper, that's what I mean about people going soft."]You're getting very far away from the point I made. Yes to all of that. I'm simply stating that the old chestnut of football being better back in the day, and players of the past would beat players of today as they were is complete bs. Yes, if you got that S&C etc. of today and applied it back. But we can't, if your Aunt had balls and so on... All we can do is compare the ball playing and fitness of both, and modern players are very far ahead to a point that they would run around the players of years ago. From my own point of view, I re-watched the Ulster final 97 last year when it was put up online. I was at the match, and considered it quite high level at the time. But jeez was I disappointed when I watched it back. The general quality, tactics, poor shooting, fitness and so on were very noticeable. Even place kicking was bad. The quality nowadays has never been higher. Any half decent team today would beat that team as they were in 97 out the door. That is my point Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2480 - 27/05/2021 12:20:16 2345855 Link 0 |
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Yes but they are only more athletic today because they have more time and more facilities and a huge backroom team. It didn't matter back then because no one else was doing what they are doing today, so the only real advantage you had was mainly down to your natural footballing ability. We don't look at what we do today in the same eyes as what someone in 40 years time will do, and look back then and say, OMG, look the way they were playing in 2021, look at the clothes people were wearing or those things called cars they were driving. Nobody spoke then of the advantages of money when they came to talking about All-Irelands, they spoke of the great players and some of the great games at the time. Now a player scores a good point and "It's outrageous" "audacious" or "incredible" , I listen to this and I just shake my head, an adult scores a good point doing something he's been doing since he was knee high to a grasshopper, that's what I mean about people going soft."]You're getting very far away from the point I made. Yes to all of that. I'm simply stating that the old chestnut of football being better back in the day, and players of the past would beat players of today as they were is complete bs. Yes, if you got that S&C etc. of today and applied it back. But we can't, if your Aunt had balls and so on... All we can do is compare the ball playing and fitness of both, and modern players are very far ahead to a point that they would run around the players of years ago. From my own point of view, I re-watched the Ulster final 97 last year when it was put up online. I was at the match, and considered it quite high level at the time. But jeez was I disappointed when I watched it back. The general quality, tactics, poor shooting, fitness and so on were very noticeable. Even place kicking was bad. The quality nowadays has never been higher. Any half decent team today would beat that team as they were in 97 out the door. That is my point"]What you're saying though could be applied to anything in life, that the average car today is better than a car from the 70's or whatever, but that's totally irrelevant. Many people tend to forget that the vast majority of games today are total and utter garbage, encounters best forgotten. In any normal Championship you wont miss too much if you don't tune in until the Quarter Final stage. Without focusing too much on the fitness of players and without forgetting to not consider the link between fitness and perceived skill levels just ask yourself where the game would be today if some of the great players of the past started messing around doing basketball moves and hiring basketball coach's in the past. We could all point to Pele, George Best, Maradona, or Eusébio making mistakes but it doesn't take away from the fact they were great footballers who are still in the best footballers of all time category and who sits down to watch these players and comes away talking about the mistakes which were made. Nobody. If the above mentioned were playing today, they'd still destroy the opposition, and the same goes for great Gaelic footballers of the past. Yes we know mistakes were made by all, but sure so what, they were amateur's, they had proper jobs, a family to feed, maybe a farm to take care of or whatever, the only gym they knew was Jim the butcher, if it's a perfect robotic game your looking for that's fine, give me mistakes and good attacking football from good honest players any day, rather than the boring s***e we see played by many today. AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 27/05/2021 13:40:53 2345882 Link 0 |
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Honestly there's a lot of garbage getting written here. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4600 - 27/05/2021 13:57:42 2345889 Link 7 |
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You'll see plenty muck being played over the next few months, by well waxed "men", that's a certainty.
AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 27/05/2021 14:45:11 2345904 Link 1 |
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Just a lot of clichéd rubbish. There's plenty of good quality football.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4600 - 27/05/2021 14:54:07 2345907 Link 6 |