National Forum

Can Anyone Name A More Forgone Conclusion Of A Competition Than The Leinster Football Championship?

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To Dubh_linn:  "There is an issue here with the argument that this is all down to money and funding and that is that Dublin hurlers have not won these multiple titles that the footballers have. We won a league and Leinster 8 and 10 years ago under Anthony Daly with a very talented bunch of players but that is the extent at county senior level and I have seen nothing to demonstrate that this will change anytime soon.If you wish to suggest otherwise then that is fine but it is purely speculation and if anything the performances have regressed. Anthony Cunningham's tenure was a disaster for Dublin hurling and it is still struggling to recover.
Finance of course is essential but it is far from the be all and end all and there is no shortage of finance in all the main contenders for All Ireland's.
Coaching and shrewd management are vital and Pat Gilroy, Jim Gavin and Dessie Farrell are all successful and committed individuals in their own right who have spent their lives involved in Dublin Football.
They have also been lucky to have some very knowledgeable people work with them to enable the players to reach their potential while following their own paths professionally.
Lastly,best of luck to Dublin hurlers against Kilkenny today. Hopefully there will be signs of promise for these no less committed players."
I'm not a hurling man but I'd say there are far more top hurling teams in the country than there are top football teams. When I say top, I mean capable of beating each other on any given day, and capable of winning an All-Ireland, so I wouldn't expect Dublin to reach the summit of Hurling as fast or if ever indeed, considering tactics would be much more limited in hurling. The money hasn't done Limerick any harm though. Correct me if I'm wrong.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 929 - 08/05/2021 15:09:21    2340547

Link

Replying To Greenfield:  "
Replying To Viking66:  "[quote=royaldunne:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=royaldunne:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=royaldunne:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "Even though the GAA didn't set out to create a "Super Team" in Dublin, they ought to have known that their unfair actions would have done just that. You see, there was a time in Dublin not so long ago when Gaelic games were looked at by many in Dublin as something only "country people" played, "bog ball" it was known as. Clearly they still had lads playing the game, many of them introduced to it by Guards from the country and so on.

There came a point when the GAA became terrified at the reality of other sports getting a foothold in the capital and in the most basic of terms this is what lead to massive investments in Dublin GAA, helped along by Bertie Ahern, who "happened" to be a man steeped in Dublin GAA.

There is an inherent fear of "foreign games" within the GAA dating back to its formation, and it still exists today. All you need to do is read some of the posts here to get a sample of that, it's like going back in time and it's this fear which has lead us to the farcical situation we are in today, especially when it comes to the Leinster Championship, which isn't dying, it's already dead.

Had the "the free market choices" of sport prevailed and not been interfered with by the GAA and the government at the time, then I have no doubt that we would have a more competitive Leinster and All-Ireland championship now and I have no doubt that Dublin would not have won six in a row either. Nobody questions that Dublin wouldn't still have produced good players and that they wouldn't win the odd All-Ireland, of course they would, but they definitely wouldn't have the dominance they have today.

Throw in the use of Croke Park as your home ground, to know every blade of grass like the back of your hand and know your range, sure how could you not win. I just wonder is there anything else the GAA could do to help them.

If it hadn't been for the likes of Kerry, Mayo and Donegal over the last few years, the farce would have been exposed even more.

If you look at a player like Andy Moran of Mayo as an example, who probably played on the best team Mayo ever produced and indeed one of the best teams that ever played, great on the eye, to think that in all likelihood he and that team were denied because of the unfairness of the GAA, is scandalous and simply wrong. That was a classic generational team, not a team helped by millions to create robots, the money even turned Jim Gavin into a robot in the end, if he had stayed in the game much longer he would have been electrocuted with all the wires hanging out of his ears. Will David Clifford of Kerry suffer the same fate as Moran or will time save him, who knows. How many more generational teams will be denied by the money men ? It's wrong.

So no matter what way you look at it, the paper trail leads you back to the unfair investment, but don't blame Dublin, it's the GAA who have created the monster but unless things are radically changed, in time the monster will end up costing the GAA big time.
"
Agreed. I don't think many actually blame Dublin, it was a massive mess up by the gaa. Dublin benefited but it was not their doing."
Well Dublin attract criticism as well because they go on the defensive and try to convince themselves and others that their success has nothing to do with unfair investment and other perks. Nobody wants their playing career tainted by constant reminders of unfairness, so it's understandable. I heard Pat Gilroy say that "nobody was giving out when Kerry and Kilkenny were winning everything", he's right, people weren't giving out because people understood their successes had nothing to do with unfair investment by the GAA and Government. "]How much money from either the government or GAA goes into their squad? None I'd be guessing!"]How do you mean "into the squad" ? Sure the squad is the one of the end products of the investment."]You are still missing the point. If this current team is the product of the government's/GAA's investment in underage Dublin football/social projects then why arent they winning All Ireland Minor titles every year?"]Quite simply cause that is not the age they want them to achieve prime fitness etc. It's all geared towards when they hit 20 and beyond. Like any professional outfit burn out is a huge thing. Dubs couldn't give a toss about minor or u20. And if that's the hope you holding onto for them to fade away then you can forget about it. Reading while back about the Kildare lad who played and won against them at minor, same fella he came up against in a match few years later took him apart. It's all about been primed for senior. Ask any dub this and those who are been honest will say the same, Meath have over the past 5 years beat dubs at minor more often than lost. Meet at senior it's entirely different."]There is a limited connection between underage and senior success in sport, fact. Take a look at Con O'Callaghan's incredible development as a good example of the jump needed. Minors are only young lads and shouldn't be expected to turn into men before their time.

I posed the question earlier regarding Dublin's "best" player and probably the best player in the country, certainly in his position, and that player is Brian Fenton, the current footballer of the year, the second time he has won the award in two years. Great player, no one can question that.

Well believe it or not Brian Fenton was told he wasn't good enough for the Dublin Minor team about 10 years ago.

Ironically the manager was none other than Dessie Farrell.

I hope this helps to answer the good question Viking66 directed at me yesterday.
"]Good answer. So you are saying Dublin have a really good longterm approach to developing senior footballers? What is stopping other counties doing this? If other counties prioritise minor success as the traditional route to developing good senior players and this is why they are coming up short then why dont they change their approach?"]Funding. Plain and simple.
I'm not going to google this so these figures are going to be off slightly, but last year it was reported dubs got 170+ per registered player. Meath got 70+. Or something crazy like that. Look someone I'm sure will come up with the exact amount, but to be able to see raw talent that has potential and bide ur time can only be done with proper resources and funding."]In what way does funding make the difference? Better food? Better longterm strength and conditioning or skills training? I still dont see how the government funding infrastructure projects at clubs in Dublin to help keep kids out of gangs or off the streets leads to a better intercounty senior team. Maybe the fact that alot of the great team they have currently come from poorer areas has given then a hunger to succeed when up against players from predominantly comfortable backgrounds in other counties. It was often a criticism of many clubs around the country even as late as the 90s that the number of acres your family farmed or the size of the family business directly influenced your chances of being picked to play especially at underage. Most of the worlds great soccer players came from poorer backgrounds also."]GAA apologists are getting really tiresome.

So funding makes no difference in the development of players? Someone should tell professional sports organisations all across the world.

If the extra millions of funding pumped into Dublin has made no difference over the last 15 years then it has been a huge waste of money and out of character for an organisation frequently referred to as "grab all" and should be stopped straight away before any more is wasted.

On the other hand if it has been successfully spent and has caused the collapse of the all Ireland as a serious competition (which IMO it has) then it should be stopped straight away.

Either way what is happening is ridiculous and people who can't see the problem really aren't helping."]dubs always say money has nothing to do with their success even though its very easy for everyone 1 to see that's since the money started being pumped in since 2002 their men's senior team have won a 6 in a row when the holy grail of a 5 never looked like being done before and they've won 8 in 10 years.

Their U20/21 have been in lots of finals winning 4/5 since 2010 and they had nothing to show for the previous how many years.

dublins hurlers were competing at kerrys level and were quite poor but now they're play with the big boys and competing well having won a div 1 title and a leinster and played in an allireland semifinal.

The dublin ladies never raised a gallop in women's football till about 10 years ago and now they have 4 in a row and heading towards 5 this year but we're supposed to believe the money has nothing to do with it.

It's funny if you speak of taking the money away and some dub posters throw a wobbler.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 12618 - 08/05/2021 16:11:52    2340557

Link

Replying To AfricanGael:  "I'm not a hurling man but I'd say there are far more top hurling teams in the country than there are top football teams. When I say top, I mean capable of beating each other on any given day, and capable of winning an All-Ireland, so I wouldn't expect Dublin to reach the summit of Hurling as fast or if ever indeed, considering tactics would be much more limited in hurling. The money hasn't done Limerick any harm though. Correct me if I'm wrong."
Money does not do any harm and as I mentioned is vital for success but no, there are not more serious contenders.
In the last 20 years 6 teams have won the All Ireland hurling title while 7 have won the Football so even with Dublins dominance in the past decade there are still more teams that have won in football. Galway, won their first All Ireland in 30 years along with Limericks emergence over the last few years having not won one for 45 years.Waterford another county that are waiting for a first in over 60 years while it's been 16 years since Cork lifted the Liam McCarthy with Clare winning one so no there are relatively few that are habitual contenders.
In fact , if you look at the hurling and football finals over the last decade the hurling has been far more clean cut.
Now, if the logical progression is that money is the biggest reason for Dublins success in footballing terms then you would expect the hurlers to have had more success.
My point is that the easy option is to point to finances as the main reason for Dublin doing so well while ignoring the lack of success in the other code.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2261 - 08/05/2021 16:47:55    2340563

Link