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Can Anyone Name A More Forgone Conclusion Of A Competition Than The Leinster Football Championship?

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Replying To Viking66:  "
Replying To AfricanGael:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=royaldunne:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "Even though the GAA didn't set out to create a "Super Team" in Dublin, they ought to have known that their unfair actions would have done just that. You see, there was a time in Dublin not so long ago when Gaelic games were looked at by many in Dublin as something only "country people" played, "bog ball" it was known as. Clearly they still had lads playing the game, many of them introduced to it by Guards from the country and so on.

There came a point when the GAA became terrified at the reality of other sports getting a foothold in the capital and in the most basic of terms this is what lead to massive investments in Dublin GAA, helped along by Bertie Ahern, who "happened" to be a man steeped in Dublin GAA.

There is an inherent fear of "foreign games" within the GAA dating back to its formation, and it still exists today. All you need to do is read some of the posts here to get a sample of that, it's like going back in time and it's this fear which has lead us to the farcical situation we are in today, especially when it comes to the Leinster Championship, which isn't dying, it's already dead.

Had the "the free market choices" of sport prevailed and not been interfered with by the GAA and the government at the time, then I have no doubt that we would have a more competitive Leinster and All-Ireland championship now and I have no doubt that Dublin would not have won six in a row either. Nobody questions that Dublin wouldn't still have produced good players and that they wouldn't win the odd All-Ireland, of course they would, but they definitely wouldn't have the dominance they have today.

Throw in the use of Croke Park as your home ground, to know every blade of grass like the back of your hand and know your range, sure how could you not win. I just wonder is there anything else the GAA could do to help them.

If it hadn't been for the likes of Kerry, Mayo and Donegal over the last few years, the farce would have been exposed even more.

If you look at a player like Andy Moran of Mayo as an example, who probably played on the best team Mayo ever produced and indeed one of the best teams that ever played, great on the eye, to think that in all likelihood he and that team were denied because of the unfairness of the GAA, is scandalous and simply wrong. That was a classic generational team, not a team helped by millions to create robots, the money even turned Jim Gavin into a robot in the end, if he had stayed in the game much longer he would have been electrocuted with all the wires hanging out of his ears. Will David Clifford of Kerry suffer the same fate as Moran or will time save him, who knows. How many more generational teams will be denied by the money men ? It's wrong.

So no matter what way you look at it, the paper trail leads you back to the unfair investment, but don't blame Dublin, it's the GAA who have created the monster but unless things are radically changed, in time the monster will end up costing the GAA big time.
"
Agreed. I don't think many actually blame Dublin, it was a massive mess up by the gaa. Dublin benefited but it was not their doing."
Well Dublin attract criticism as well because they go on the defensive and try to convince themselves and others that their success has nothing to do with unfair investment and other perks. Nobody wants their playing career tainted by constant reminders of unfairness, so it's understandable. I heard Pat Gilroy say that "nobody was giving out when Kerry and Kilkenny were winning everything", he's right, people weren't giving out because people understood their successes had nothing to do with unfair investment by the GAA and Government. "]How much money from either the government or GAA goes into their squad? None I'd be guessing!"]How do you mean "into the squad" ? Sure the squad is the one of the end products of the investment."]You are still missing the point. If this current team is the product of the government's/GAA's investment in underage Dublin football/social projects then why arent they winning All Ireland Minor titles every year?"]Who is Dublin's best player and arguably the best player in the country at the moment ?

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1946 - 06/05/2021 11:15:23    2340225

Link

Replying To Viking66:  "
Replying To AfricanGael:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=royaldunne:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "Even though the GAA didn't set out to create a "Super Team" in Dublin, they ought to have known that their unfair actions would have done just that. You see, there was a time in Dublin not so long ago when Gaelic games were looked at by many in Dublin as something only "country people" played, "bog ball" it was known as. Clearly they still had lads playing the game, many of them introduced to it by Guards from the country and so on.

There came a point when the GAA became terrified at the reality of other sports getting a foothold in the capital and in the most basic of terms this is what lead to massive investments in Dublin GAA, helped along by Bertie Ahern, who "happened" to be a man steeped in Dublin GAA.

There is an inherent fear of "foreign games" within the GAA dating back to its formation, and it still exists today. All you need to do is read some of the posts here to get a sample of that, it's like going back in time and it's this fear which has lead us to the farcical situation we are in today, especially when it comes to the Leinster Championship, which isn't dying, it's already dead.

Had the "the free market choices" of sport prevailed and not been interfered with by the GAA and the government at the time, then I have no doubt that we would have a more competitive Leinster and All-Ireland championship now and I have no doubt that Dublin would not have won six in a row either. Nobody questions that Dublin wouldn't still have produced good players and that they wouldn't win the odd All-Ireland, of course they would, but they definitely wouldn't have the dominance they have today.

Throw in the use of Croke Park as your home ground, to know every blade of grass like the back of your hand and know your range, sure how could you not win. I just wonder is there anything else the GAA could do to help them.

If it hadn't been for the likes of Kerry, Mayo and Donegal over the last few years, the farce would have been exposed even more.

If you look at a player like Andy Moran of Mayo as an example, who probably played on the best team Mayo ever produced and indeed one of the best teams that ever played, great on the eye, to think that in all likelihood he and that team were denied because of the unfairness of the GAA, is scandalous and simply wrong. That was a classic generational team, not a team helped by millions to create robots, the money even turned Jim Gavin into a robot in the end, if he had stayed in the game much longer he would have been electrocuted with all the wires hanging out of his ears. Will David Clifford of Kerry suffer the same fate as Moran or will time save him, who knows. How many more generational teams will be denied by the money men ? It's wrong.

So no matter what way you look at it, the paper trail leads you back to the unfair investment, but don't blame Dublin, it's the GAA who have created the monster but unless things are radically changed, in time the monster will end up costing the GAA big time.
"
Agreed. I don't think many actually blame Dublin, it was a massive mess up by the gaa. Dublin benefited but it was not their doing."
Well Dublin attract criticism as well because they go on the defensive and try to convince themselves and others that their success has nothing to do with unfair investment and other perks. Nobody wants their playing career tainted by constant reminders of unfairness, so it's understandable. I heard Pat Gilroy say that "nobody was giving out when Kerry and Kilkenny were winning everything", he's right, people weren't giving out because people understood their successes had nothing to do with unfair investment by the GAA and Government. "]How much money from either the government or GAA goes into their squad? None I'd be guessing!"]How do you mean "into the squad" ? Sure the squad is the one of the end products of the investment."]You are still missing the point. If this current team is the product of the government's/GAA's investment in underage Dublin football/social projects then why arent they winning All Ireland Minor titles every year?"]Quite simply cause that is not the age they want them to achieve prime fitness etc. It's all geared towards when they hit 20 and beyond. Like any professional outfit burn out is a huge thing. Dubs couldn't give a toss about minor or u20. And if that's the hope you holding onto for them to fade away then you can forget about it. Reading while back about the Kildare lad who played and won against them at minor, same fella he came up against in a match few years later took him apart. It's all about been primed for senior. Ask any dub this and those who are been honest will say the same, Meath have over the past 5 years beat dubs at minor more often than lost. Meet at senior it's entirely different.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17747 - 06/05/2021 13:17:51    2340247

Link

Replying To royaldunne:  "
Replying To Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=royaldunne:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "Even though the GAA didn't set out to create a "Super Team" in Dublin, they ought to have known that their unfair actions would have done just that. You see, there was a time in Dublin not so long ago when Gaelic games were looked at by many in Dublin as something only "country people" played, "bog ball" it was known as. Clearly they still had lads playing the game, many of them introduced to it by Guards from the country and so on.

There came a point when the GAA became terrified at the reality of other sports getting a foothold in the capital and in the most basic of terms this is what lead to massive investments in Dublin GAA, helped along by Bertie Ahern, who "happened" to be a man steeped in Dublin GAA.

There is an inherent fear of "foreign games" within the GAA dating back to its formation, and it still exists today. All you need to do is read some of the posts here to get a sample of that, it's like going back in time and it's this fear which has lead us to the farcical situation we are in today, especially when it comes to the Leinster Championship, which isn't dying, it's already dead.

Had the "the free market choices" of sport prevailed and not been interfered with by the GAA and the government at the time, then I have no doubt that we would have a more competitive Leinster and All-Ireland championship now and I have no doubt that Dublin would not have won six in a row either. Nobody questions that Dublin wouldn't still have produced good players and that they wouldn't win the odd All-Ireland, of course they would, but they definitely wouldn't have the dominance they have today.

Throw in the use of Croke Park as your home ground, to know every blade of grass like the back of your hand and know your range, sure how could you not win. I just wonder is there anything else the GAA could do to help them.

If it hadn't been for the likes of Kerry, Mayo and Donegal over the last few years, the farce would have been exposed even more.

If you look at a player like Andy Moran of Mayo as an example, who probably played on the best team Mayo ever produced and indeed one of the best teams that ever played, great on the eye, to think that in all likelihood he and that team were denied because of the unfairness of the GAA, is scandalous and simply wrong. That was a classic generational team, not a team helped by millions to create robots, the money even turned Jim Gavin into a robot in the end, if he had stayed in the game much longer he would have been electrocuted with all the wires hanging out of his ears. Will David Clifford of Kerry suffer the same fate as Moran or will time save him, who knows. How many more generational teams will be denied by the money men ? It's wrong.

So no matter what way you look at it, the paper trail leads you back to the unfair investment, but don't blame Dublin, it's the GAA who have created the monster but unless things are radically changed, in time the monster will end up costing the GAA big time.
"
Agreed. I don't think many actually blame Dublin, it was a massive mess up by the gaa. Dublin benefited but it was not their doing."
Well Dublin attract criticism as well because they go on the defensive and try to convince themselves and others that their success has nothing to do with unfair investment and other perks. Nobody wants their playing career tainted by constant reminders of unfairness, so it's understandable. I heard Pat Gilroy say that "nobody was giving out when Kerry and Kilkenny were winning everything", he's right, people weren't giving out because people understood their successes had nothing to do with unfair investment by the GAA and Government. "]How much money from either the government or GAA goes into their squad? None I'd be guessing!"]How do you mean "into the squad" ? Sure the squad is the one of the end products of the investment."]You are still missing the point. If this current team is the product of the government's/GAA's investment in underage Dublin football/social projects then why arent they winning All Ireland Minor titles every year?"]Quite simply cause that is not the age they want them to achieve prime fitness etc. It's all geared towards when they hit 20 and beyond. Like any professional outfit burn out is a huge thing. Dubs couldn't give a toss about minor or u20. And if that's the hope you holding onto for them to fade away then you can forget about it. Reading while back about the Kildare lad who played and won against them at minor, same fella he came up against in a match few years later took him apart. It's all about been primed for senior. Ask any dub this and those who are been honest will say the same, Meath have over the past 5 years beat dubs at minor more often than lost. Meet at senior it's entirely different."]There is a limited connection between underage and senior success in sport, fact. Take a look at Con O'Callaghan's incredible development as a good example of the jump needed. Minors are only young lads and shouldn't be expected to turn into men before their time.

I posed the question earlier regarding Dublin's "best" player and probably the best player in the country, certainly in his position, and that player is Brian Fenton, the current footballer of the year, the second time he has won the award in two years. Great player, no one can question that.

Well believe it or not Brian Fenton was told he wasn't good enough for the Dublin Minor team about 10 years ago.

Ironically the manager was none other than Dessie Farrell.

I hope this helps to answer the good question Viking66 directed at me yesterday.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1946 - 06/05/2021 13:57:37    2340255

Link

Replying To AfricanGael:  "
Replying To royaldunne:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=royaldunne:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "Even though the GAA didn't set out to create a "Super Team" in Dublin, they ought to have known that their unfair actions would have done just that. You see, there was a time in Dublin not so long ago when Gaelic games were looked at by many in Dublin as something only "country people" played, "bog ball" it was known as. Clearly they still had lads playing the game, many of them introduced to it by Guards from the country and so on.

There came a point when the GAA became terrified at the reality of other sports getting a foothold in the capital and in the most basic of terms this is what lead to massive investments in Dublin GAA, helped along by Bertie Ahern, who "happened" to be a man steeped in Dublin GAA.

There is an inherent fear of "foreign games" within the GAA dating back to its formation, and it still exists today. All you need to do is read some of the posts here to get a sample of that, it's like going back in time and it's this fear which has lead us to the farcical situation we are in today, especially when it comes to the Leinster Championship, which isn't dying, it's already dead.

Had the "the free market choices" of sport prevailed and not been interfered with by the GAA and the government at the time, then I have no doubt that we would have a more competitive Leinster and All-Ireland championship now and I have no doubt that Dublin would not have won six in a row either. Nobody questions that Dublin wouldn't still have produced good players and that they wouldn't win the odd All-Ireland, of course they would, but they definitely wouldn't have the dominance they have today.

Throw in the use of Croke Park as your home ground, to know every blade of grass like the back of your hand and know your range, sure how could you not win. I just wonder is there anything else the GAA could do to help them.

If it hadn't been for the likes of Kerry, Mayo and Donegal over the last few years, the farce would have been exposed even more.

If you look at a player like Andy Moran of Mayo as an example, who probably played on the best team Mayo ever produced and indeed one of the best teams that ever played, great on the eye, to think that in all likelihood he and that team were denied because of the unfairness of the GAA, is scandalous and simply wrong. That was a classic generational team, not a team helped by millions to create robots, the money even turned Jim Gavin into a robot in the end, if he had stayed in the game much longer he would have been electrocuted with all the wires hanging out of his ears. Will David Clifford of Kerry suffer the same fate as Moran or will time save him, who knows. How many more generational teams will be denied by the money men ? It's wrong.

So no matter what way you look at it, the paper trail leads you back to the unfair investment, but don't blame Dublin, it's the GAA who have created the monster but unless things are radically changed, in time the monster will end up costing the GAA big time.
"
Agreed. I don't think many actually blame Dublin, it was a massive mess up by the gaa. Dublin benefited but it was not their doing."
Well Dublin attract criticism as well because they go on the defensive and try to convince themselves and others that their success has nothing to do with unfair investment and other perks. Nobody wants their playing career tainted by constant reminders of unfairness, so it's understandable. I heard Pat Gilroy say that "nobody was giving out when Kerry and Kilkenny were winning everything", he's right, people weren't giving out because people understood their successes had nothing to do with unfair investment by the GAA and Government. "]How much money from either the government or GAA goes into their squad? None I'd be guessing!"]How do you mean "into the squad" ? Sure the squad is the one of the end products of the investment."]You are still missing the point. If this current team is the product of the government's/GAA's investment in underage Dublin football/social projects then why arent they winning All Ireland Minor titles every year?"]Quite simply cause that is not the age they want them to achieve prime fitness etc. It's all geared towards when they hit 20 and beyond. Like any professional outfit burn out is a huge thing. Dubs couldn't give a toss about minor or u20. And if that's the hope you holding onto for them to fade away then you can forget about it. Reading while back about the Kildare lad who played and won against them at minor, same fella he came up against in a match few years later took him apart. It's all about been primed for senior. Ask any dub this and those who are been honest will say the same, Meath have over the past 5 years beat dubs at minor more often than lost. Meet at senior it's entirely different."]There is a limited connection between underage and senior success in sport, fact. Take a look at Con O'Callaghan's incredible development as a good example of the jump needed. Minors are only young lads and shouldn't be expected to turn into men before their time.

I posed the question earlier regarding Dublin's "best" player and probably the best player in the country, certainly in his position, and that player is Brian Fenton, the current footballer of the year, the second time he has won the award in two years. Great player, no one can question that.

Well believe it or not Brian Fenton was told he wasn't good enough for the Dublin Minor team about 10 years ago.

Ironically the manager was none other than Dessie Farrell.

I hope this helps to answer the good question Viking66 directed at me yesterday.
"]Good answer. So you are saying Dublin have a really good longterm approach to developing senior footballers? What is stopping other counties doing this? If other counties prioritise minor success as the traditional route to developing good senior players and this is why they are coming up short then why dont they change their approach?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3047 - 06/05/2021 17:37:08    2340307

Link

Replying To Viking66:  "
Replying To AfricanGael:  "[quote=royaldunne:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=royaldunne:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "Even though the GAA didn't set out to create a "Super Team" in Dublin, they ought to have known that their unfair actions would have done just that. You see, there was a time in Dublin not so long ago when Gaelic games were looked at by many in Dublin as something only "country people" played, "bog ball" it was known as. Clearly they still had lads playing the game, many of them introduced to it by Guards from the country and so on.

There came a point when the GAA became terrified at the reality of other sports getting a foothold in the capital and in the most basic of terms this is what lead to massive investments in Dublin GAA, helped along by Bertie Ahern, who "happened" to be a man steeped in Dublin GAA.

There is an inherent fear of "foreign games" within the GAA dating back to its formation, and it still exists today. All you need to do is read some of the posts here to get a sample of that, it's like going back in time and it's this fear which has lead us to the farcical situation we are in today, especially when it comes to the Leinster Championship, which isn't dying, it's already dead.

Had the "the free market choices" of sport prevailed and not been interfered with by the GAA and the government at the time, then I have no doubt that we would have a more competitive Leinster and All-Ireland championship now and I have no doubt that Dublin would not have won six in a row either. Nobody questions that Dublin wouldn't still have produced good players and that they wouldn't win the odd All-Ireland, of course they would, but they definitely wouldn't have the dominance they have today.

Throw in the use of Croke Park as your home ground, to know every blade of grass like the back of your hand and know your range, sure how could you not win. I just wonder is there anything else the GAA could do to help them.

If it hadn't been for the likes of Kerry, Mayo and Donegal over the last few years, the farce would have been exposed even more.

If you look at a player like Andy Moran of Mayo as an example, who probably played on the best team Mayo ever produced and indeed one of the best teams that ever played, great on the eye, to think that in all likelihood he and that team were denied because of the unfairness of the GAA, is scandalous and simply wrong. That was a classic generational team, not a team helped by millions to create robots, the money even turned Jim Gavin into a robot in the end, if he had stayed in the game much longer he would have been electrocuted with all the wires hanging out of his ears. Will David Clifford of Kerry suffer the same fate as Moran or will time save him, who knows. How many more generational teams will be denied by the money men ? It's wrong.

So no matter what way you look at it, the paper trail leads you back to the unfair investment, but don't blame Dublin, it's the GAA who have created the monster but unless things are radically changed, in time the monster will end up costing the GAA big time.
"
Agreed. I don't think many actually blame Dublin, it was a massive mess up by the gaa. Dublin benefited but it was not their doing."
Well Dublin attract criticism as well because they go on the defensive and try to convince themselves and others that their success has nothing to do with unfair investment and other perks. Nobody wants their playing career tainted by constant reminders of unfairness, so it's understandable. I heard Pat Gilroy say that "nobody was giving out when Kerry and Kilkenny were winning everything", he's right, people weren't giving out because people understood their successes had nothing to do with unfair investment by the GAA and Government. "]How much money from either the government or GAA goes into their squad? None I'd be guessing!"]How do you mean "into the squad" ? Sure the squad is the one of the end products of the investment."]You are still missing the point. If this current team is the product of the government's/GAA's investment in underage Dublin football/social projects then why arent they winning All Ireland Minor titles every year?"]Quite simply cause that is not the age they want them to achieve prime fitness etc. It's all geared towards when they hit 20 and beyond. Like any professional outfit burn out is a huge thing. Dubs couldn't give a toss about minor or u20. And if that's the hope you holding onto for them to fade away then you can forget about it. Reading while back about the Kildare lad who played and won against them at minor, same fella he came up against in a match few years later took him apart. It's all about been primed for senior. Ask any dub this and those who are been honest will say the same, Meath have over the past 5 years beat dubs at minor more often than lost. Meet at senior it's entirely different."]There is a limited connection between underage and senior success in sport, fact. Take a look at Con O'Callaghan's incredible development as a good example of the jump needed. Minors are only young lads and shouldn't be expected to turn into men before their time.

I posed the question earlier regarding Dublin's "best" player and probably the best player in the country, certainly in his position, and that player is Brian Fenton, the current footballer of the year, the second time he has won the award in two years. Great player, no one can question that.

Well believe it or not Brian Fenton was told he wasn't good enough for the Dublin Minor team about 10 years ago.

Ironically the manager was none other than Dessie Farrell.

I hope this helps to answer the good question Viking66 directed at me yesterday.
"]Good answer. So you are saying Dublin have a really good longterm approach to developing senior footballers? What is stopping other counties doing this? If other counties prioritise minor success as the traditional route to developing good senior players and this is why they are coming up short then why dont they change their approach?"]Funding. Plain and simple.
I'm not going to google this so these figures are going to be off slightly, but last year it was reported dubs got 170+ per registered player. Meath got 70+. Or something crazy like that. Look someone I'm sure will come up with the exact amount, but to be able to see raw talent that has potential and bide ur time can only be done with proper resources and funding.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17747 - 07/05/2021 06:18:38    2340360

Link

Replying To Viking66:  "
Replying To AfricanGael:  "[quote=royaldunne:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=royaldunne:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "Even though the GAA didn't set out to create a "Super Team" in Dublin, they ought to have known that their unfair actions would have done just that. You see, there was a time in Dublin not so long ago when Gaelic games were looked at by many in Dublin as something only "country people" played, "bog ball" it was known as. Clearly they still had lads playing the game, many of them introduced to it by Guards from the country and so on.

There came a point when the GAA became terrified at the reality of other sports getting a foothold in the capital and in the most basic of terms this is what lead to massive investments in Dublin GAA, helped along by Bertie Ahern, who "happened" to be a man steeped in Dublin GAA.

There is an inherent fear of "foreign games" within the GAA dating back to its formation, and it still exists today. All you need to do is read some of the posts here to get a sample of that, it's like going back in time and it's this fear which has lead us to the farcical situation we are in today, especially when it comes to the Leinster Championship, which isn't dying, it's already dead.

Had the "the free market choices" of sport prevailed and not been interfered with by the GAA and the government at the time, then I have no doubt that we would have a more competitive Leinster and All-Ireland championship now and I have no doubt that Dublin would not have won six in a row either. Nobody questions that Dublin wouldn't still have produced good players and that they wouldn't win the odd All-Ireland, of course they would, but they definitely wouldn't have the dominance they have today.

Throw in the use of Croke Park as your home ground, to know every blade of grass like the back of your hand and know your range, sure how could you not win. I just wonder is there anything else the GAA could do to help them.

If it hadn't been for the likes of Kerry, Mayo and Donegal over the last few years, the farce would have been exposed even more.

If you look at a player like Andy Moran of Mayo as an example, who probably played on the best team Mayo ever produced and indeed one of the best teams that ever played, great on the eye, to think that in all likelihood he and that team were denied because of the unfairness of the GAA, is scandalous and simply wrong. That was a classic generational team, not a team helped by millions to create robots, the money even turned Jim Gavin into a robot in the end, if he had stayed in the game much longer he would have been electrocuted with all the wires hanging out of his ears. Will David Clifford of Kerry suffer the same fate as Moran or will time save him, who knows. How many more generational teams will be denied by the money men ? It's wrong.

So no matter what way you look at it, the paper trail leads you back to the unfair investment, but don't blame Dublin, it's the GAA who have created the monster but unless things are radically changed, in time the monster will end up costing the GAA big time.
"
Agreed. I don't think many actually blame Dublin, it was a massive mess up by the gaa. Dublin benefited but it was not their doing."
Well Dublin attract criticism as well because they go on the defensive and try to convince themselves and others that their success has nothing to do with unfair investment and other perks. Nobody wants their playing career tainted by constant reminders of unfairness, so it's understandable. I heard Pat Gilroy say that "nobody was giving out when Kerry and Kilkenny were winning everything", he's right, people weren't giving out because people understood their successes had nothing to do with unfair investment by the GAA and Government. "]How much money from either the government or GAA goes into their squad? None I'd be guessing!"]How do you mean "into the squad" ? Sure the squad is the one of the end products of the investment."]You are still missing the point. If this current team is the product of the government's/GAA's investment in underage Dublin football/social projects then why arent they winning All Ireland Minor titles every year?"]Quite simply cause that is not the age they want them to achieve prime fitness etc. It's all geared towards when they hit 20 and beyond. Like any professional outfit burn out is a huge thing. Dubs couldn't give a toss about minor or u20. And if that's the hope you holding onto for them to fade away then you can forget about it. Reading while back about the Kildare lad who played and won against them at minor, same fella he came up against in a match few years later took him apart. It's all about been primed for senior. Ask any dub this and those who are been honest will say the same, Meath have over the past 5 years beat dubs at minor more often than lost. Meet at senior it's entirely different."]There is a limited connection between underage and senior success in sport, fact. Take a look at Con O'Callaghan's incredible development as a good example of the jump needed. Minors are only young lads and shouldn't be expected to turn into men before their time.

I posed the question earlier regarding Dublin's "best" player and probably the best player in the country, certainly in his position, and that player is Brian Fenton, the current footballer of the year, the second time he has won the award in two years. Great player, no one can question that.

Well believe it or not Brian Fenton was told he wasn't good enough for the Dublin Minor team about 10 years ago.

Ironically the manager was none other than Dessie Farrell.

I hope this helps to answer the good question Viking66 directed at me yesterday.
"]Good answer. So you are saying Dublin have a really good longterm approach to developing senior footballers? What is stopping other counties doing this? If other counties prioritise minor success as the traditional route to developing good senior players and this is why they are coming up short then why dont they change their approach?"]There are some people who are using the funding stick to beat Dublin and to tarnish their achievements which I don't subscribe to but the GAA need to confront the reality that unless the playing field is 'somewhat' levelled, players in a lot of counties are going to walk away due to the amount of time they have to dedicate and how little they are getting in return. Add into this mix, the perception that the system is rigged towards the wealth counties with funding and big sponsorship deals. Do the GAA want to have a situation where there are a small portion of counties (like in hurling) who are playing for the big prize? If so, then they are doing a great job achieving this but for the general public and supporters in a large number of counties, I don't believe that this is what they want. Dublin have a large playing population and so they need greater investment to cater for all the youngers who want to play hurling and football at club level but there needs to be a mechanism whereby this is offset against counties will smaller populations who are unable to garner huge sponsorship deals like the big teams in hurling and football can. There will never be a perfect situation but giving Dublin with their population more funding than everyone else, a stadium that they don't have to maintain plus the huge sponsorship deals that they can avail of is only going to make them stronger and currently too strong for the majority of other counties. It will require some creativity thinking but it is worth doing and it should be a process that is underway now.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1394 - 07/05/2021 12:20:50    2340394

Link

Replying To wicklowsupport:  "
Replying To Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=royaldunne:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=royaldunne:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "Even though the GAA didn't set out to create a "Super Team" in Dublin, they ought to have known that their unfair actions would have done just that. You see, there was a time in Dublin not so long ago when Gaelic games were looked at by many in Dublin as something only "country people" played, "bog ball" it was known as. Clearly they still had lads playing the game, many of them introduced to it by Guards from the country and so on.

There came a point when the GAA became terrified at the reality of other sports getting a foothold in the capital and in the most basic of terms this is what lead to massive investments in Dublin GAA, helped along by Bertie Ahern, who "happened" to be a man steeped in Dublin GAA.

There is an inherent fear of "foreign games" within the GAA dating back to its formation, and it still exists today. All you need to do is read some of the posts here to get a sample of that, it's like going back in time and it's this fear which has lead us to the farcical situation we are in today, especially when it comes to the Leinster Championship, which isn't dying, it's already dead.

Had the "the free market choices" of sport prevailed and not been interfered with by the GAA and the government at the time, then I have no doubt that we would have a more competitive Leinster and All-Ireland championship now and I have no doubt that Dublin would not have won six in a row either. Nobody questions that Dublin wouldn't still have produced good players and that they wouldn't win the odd All-Ireland, of course they would, but they definitely wouldn't have the dominance they have today.

Throw in the use of Croke Park as your home ground, to know every blade of grass like the back of your hand and know your range, sure how could you not win. I just wonder is there anything else the GAA could do to help them.

If it hadn't been for the likes of Kerry, Mayo and Donegal over the last few years, the farce would have been exposed even more.

If you look at a player like Andy Moran of Mayo as an example, who probably played on the best team Mayo ever produced and indeed one of the best teams that ever played, great on the eye, to think that in all likelihood he and that team were denied because of the unfairness of the GAA, is scandalous and simply wrong. That was a classic generational team, not a team helped by millions to create robots, the money even turned Jim Gavin into a robot in the end, if he had stayed in the game much longer he would have been electrocuted with all the wires hanging out of his ears. Will David Clifford of Kerry suffer the same fate as Moran or will time save him, who knows. How many more generational teams will be denied by the money men ? It's wrong.

So no matter what way you look at it, the paper trail leads you back to the unfair investment, but don't blame Dublin, it's the GAA who have created the monster but unless things are radically changed, in time the monster will end up costing the GAA big time.
"
Agreed. I don't think many actually blame Dublin, it was a massive mess up by the gaa. Dublin benefited but it was not their doing."
Well Dublin attract criticism as well because they go on the defensive and try to convince themselves and others that their success has nothing to do with unfair investment and other perks. Nobody wants their playing career tainted by constant reminders of unfairness, so it's understandable. I heard Pat Gilroy say that "nobody was giving out when Kerry and Kilkenny were winning everything", he's right, people weren't giving out because people understood their successes had nothing to do with unfair investment by the GAA and Government. "]How much money from either the government or GAA goes into their squad? None I'd be guessing!"]How do you mean "into the squad" ? Sure the squad is the one of the end products of the investment."]You are still missing the point. If this current team is the product of the government's/GAA's investment in underage Dublin football/social projects then why arent they winning All Ireland Minor titles every year?"]Quite simply cause that is not the age they want them to achieve prime fitness etc. It's all geared towards when they hit 20 and beyond. Like any professional outfit burn out is a huge thing. Dubs couldn't give a toss about minor or u20. And if that's the hope you holding onto for them to fade away then you can forget about it. Reading while back about the Kildare lad who played and won against them at minor, same fella he came up against in a match few years later took him apart. It's all about been primed for senior. Ask any dub this and those who are been honest will say the same, Meath have over the past 5 years beat dubs at minor more often than lost. Meet at senior it's entirely different."]There is a limited connection between underage and senior success in sport, fact. Take a look at Con O'Callaghan's incredible development as a good example of the jump needed. Minors are only young lads and shouldn't be expected to turn into men before their time.

I posed the question earlier regarding Dublin's "best" player and probably the best player in the country, certainly in his position, and that player is Brian Fenton, the current footballer of the year, the second time he has won the award in two years. Great player, no one can question that.

Well believe it or not Brian Fenton was told he wasn't good enough for the Dublin Minor team about 10 years ago.

Ironically the manager was none other than Dessie Farrell.

I hope this helps to answer the good question Viking66 directed at me yesterday.
"]Good answer. So you are saying Dublin have a really good longterm approach to developing senior footballers? What is stopping other counties doing this? If other counties prioritise minor success as the traditional route to developing good senior players and this is why they are coming up short then why dont they change their approach?"]There are some people who are using the funding stick to beat Dublin and to tarnish their achievements which I don't subscribe to but the GAA need to confront the reality that unless the playing field is 'somewhat' levelled, players in a lot of counties are going to walk away due to the amount of time they have to dedicate and how little they are getting in return. Add into this mix, the perception that the system is rigged towards the wealth counties with funding and big sponsorship deals. Do the GAA want to have a situation where there are a small portion of counties (like in hurling) who are playing for the big prize? If so, then they are doing a great job achieving this but for the general public and supporters in a large number of counties, I don't believe that this is what they want. Dublin have a large playing population and so they need greater investment to cater for all the youngers who want to play hurling and football at club level but there needs to be a mechanism whereby this is offset against counties will smaller populations who are unable to garner huge sponsorship deals like the big teams in hurling and football can. There will never be a perfect situation but giving Dublin with their population more funding than everyone else, a stadium that they don't have to maintain plus the huge sponsorship deals that they can avail of is only going to make them stronger and currently too strong for the majority of other counties. It will require some creativity thinking but it is worth doing and it should be a process that is underway now."] "Do the GAA want to have a situation where there are a small portion of counties (like in hurling) who are playing for the big prize?"

Six different counties who have won the hurling All-Ireland in the last 20 years, the same as football (6 different winners).

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1452 - 07/05/2021 14:09:10    2340409

Link

Replying To wicklowsupport:  "
Replying To Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=royaldunne:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=royaldunne:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "Even though the GAA didn't set out to create a "Super Team" in Dublin, they ought to have known that their unfair actions would have done just that. You see, there was a time in Dublin not so long ago when Gaelic games were looked at by many in Dublin as something only "country people" played, "bog ball" it was known as. Clearly they still had lads playing the game, many of them introduced to it by Guards from the country and so on.

There came a point when the GAA became terrified at the reality of other sports getting a foothold in the capital and in the most basic of terms this is what lead to massive investments in Dublin GAA, helped along by Bertie Ahern, who "happened" to be a man steeped in Dublin GAA.

There is an inherent fear of "foreign games" within the GAA dating back to its formation, and it still exists today. All you need to do is read some of the posts here to get a sample of that, it's like going back in time and it's this fear which has lead us to the farcical situation we are in today, especially when it comes to the Leinster Championship, which isn't dying, it's already dead.

Had the "the free market choices" of sport prevailed and not been interfered with by the GAA and the government at the time, then I have no doubt that we would have a more competitive Leinster and All-Ireland championship now and I have no doubt that Dublin would not have won six in a row either. Nobody questions that Dublin wouldn't still have produced good players and that they wouldn't win the odd All-Ireland, of course they would, but they definitely wouldn't have the dominance they have today.

Throw in the use of Croke Park as your home ground, to know every blade of grass like the back of your hand and know your range, sure how could you not win. I just wonder is there anything else the GAA could do to help them.

If it hadn't been for the likes of Kerry, Mayo and Donegal over the last few years, the farce would have been exposed even more.

If you look at a player like Andy Moran of Mayo as an example, who probably played on the best team Mayo ever produced and indeed one of the best teams that ever played, great on the eye, to think that in all likelihood he and that team were denied because of the unfairness of the GAA, is scandalous and simply wrong. That was a classic generational team, not a team helped by millions to create robots, the money even turned Jim Gavin into a robot in the end, if he had stayed in the game much longer he would have been electrocuted with all the wires hanging out of his ears. Will David Clifford of Kerry suffer the same fate as Moran or will time save him, who knows. How many more generational teams will be denied by the money men ? It's wrong.

So no matter what way you look at it, the paper trail leads you back to the unfair investment, but don't blame Dublin, it's the GAA who have created the monster but unless things are radically changed, in time the monster will end up costing the GAA big time.
"
Agreed. I don't think many actually blame Dublin, it was a massive mess up by the gaa. Dublin benefited but it was not their doing."
Well Dublin attract criticism as well because they go on the defensive and try to convince themselves and others that their success has nothing to do with unfair investment and other perks. Nobody wants their playing career tainted by constant reminders of unfairness, so it's understandable. I heard Pat Gilroy say that "nobody was giving out when Kerry and Kilkenny were winning everything", he's right, people weren't giving out because people understood their successes had nothing to do with unfair investment by the GAA and Government. "]How much money from either the government or GAA goes into their squad? None I'd be guessing!"]How do you mean "into the squad" ? Sure the squad is the one of the end products of the investment."]You are still missing the point. If this current team is the product of the government's/GAA's investment in underage Dublin football/social projects then why arent they winning All Ireland Minor titles every year?"]Quite simply cause that is not the age they want them to achieve prime fitness etc. It's all geared towards when they hit 20 and beyond. Like any professional outfit burn out is a huge thing. Dubs couldn't give a toss about minor or u20. And if that's the hope you holding onto for them to fade away then you can forget about it. Reading while back about the Kildare lad who played and won against them at minor, same fella he came up against in a match few years later took him apart. It's all about been primed for senior. Ask any dub this and those who are been honest will say the same, Meath have over the past 5 years beat dubs at minor more often than lost. Meet at senior it's entirely different."]There is a limited connection between underage and senior success in sport, fact. Take a look at Con O'Callaghan's incredible development as a good example of the jump needed. Minors are only young lads and shouldn't be expected to turn into men before their time.

I posed the question earlier regarding Dublin's "best" player and probably the best player in the country, certainly in his position, and that player is Brian Fenton, the current footballer of the year, the second time he has won the award in two years. Great player, no one can question that.

Well believe it or not Brian Fenton was told he wasn't good enough for the Dublin Minor team about 10 years ago.

Ironically the manager was none other than Dessie Farrell.

I hope this helps to answer the good question Viking66 directed at me yesterday.
"]Good answer. So you are saying Dublin have a really good longterm approach to developing senior footballers? What is stopping other counties doing this? If other counties prioritise minor success as the traditional route to developing good senior players and this is why they are coming up short then why dont they change their approach?"]There are some people who are using the funding stick to beat Dublin and to tarnish their achievements which I don't subscribe to but the GAA need to confront the reality that unless the playing field is 'somewhat' levelled, players in a lot of counties are going to walk away due to the amount of time they have to dedicate and how little they are getting in return. Add into this mix, the perception that the system is rigged towards the wealth counties with funding and big sponsorship deals. Do the GAA want to have a situation where there are a small portion of counties (like in hurling) who are playing for the big prize? If so, then they are doing a great job achieving this but for the general public and supporters in a large number of counties, I don't believe that this is what they want. Dublin have a large playing population and so they need greater investment to cater for all the youngers who want to play hurling and football at club level but there needs to be a mechanism whereby this is offset against counties will smaller populations who are unable to garner huge sponsorship deals like the big teams in hurling and football can. There will never be a perfect situation but giving Dublin with their population more funding than everyone else, a stadium that they don't have to maintain plus the huge sponsorship deals that they can avail of is only going to make them stronger and currently too strong for the majority of other counties. It will require some creativity thinking but it is worth doing and it should be a process that is underway now."]Being targeted because one is a beneficiary of an unfair policy is nothing new in any walk of life and it's no different for Dublin, saying Dublin haven't benefited from it is akin to saying Ireland hasn't benefited from a low corporation tax rate regime, also deemed unfair by many and we all know how much criticism Ireland receive because of it.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1946 - 07/05/2021 14:40:12    2340419

Link

Replying To AfricanGael:  "
Replying To wicklowsupport:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=royaldunne:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=royaldunne:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "Even though the GAA didn't set out to create a "Super Team" in Dublin, they ought to have known that their unfair actions would have done just that. You see, there was a time in Dublin not so long ago when Gaelic games were looked at by many in Dublin as something only "country people" played, "bog ball" it was known as. Clearly they still had lads playing the game, many of them introduced to it by Guards from the country and so on.

There came a point when the GAA became terrified at the reality of other sports getting a foothold in the capital and in the most basic of terms this is what lead to massive investments in Dublin GAA, helped along by Bertie Ahern, who "happened" to be a man steeped in Dublin GAA.

There is an inherent fear of "foreign games" within the GAA dating back to its formation, and it still exists today. All you need to do is read some of the posts here to get a sample of that, it's like going back in time and it's this fear which has lead us to the farcical situation we are in today, especially when it comes to the Leinster Championship, which isn't dying, it's already dead.

Had the "the free market choices" of sport prevailed and not been interfered with by the GAA and the government at the time, then I have no doubt that we would have a more competitive Leinster and All-Ireland championship now and I have no doubt that Dublin would not have won six in a row either. Nobody questions that Dublin wouldn't still have produced good players and that they wouldn't win the odd All-Ireland, of course they would, but they definitely wouldn't have the dominance they have today.

Throw in the use of Croke Park as your home ground, to know every blade of grass like the back of your hand and know your range, sure how could you not win. I just wonder is there anything else the GAA could do to help them.

If it hadn't been for the likes of Kerry, Mayo and Donegal over the last few years, the farce would have been exposed even more.

If you look at a player like Andy Moran of Mayo as an example, who probably played on the best team Mayo ever produced and indeed one of the best teams that ever played, great on the eye, to think that in all likelihood he and that team were denied because of the unfairness of the GAA, is scandalous and simply wrong. That was a classic generational team, not a team helped by millions to create robots, the money even turned Jim Gavin into a robot in the end, if he had stayed in the game much longer he would have been electrocuted with all the wires hanging out of his ears. Will David Clifford of Kerry suffer the same fate as Moran or will time save him, who knows. How many more generational teams will be denied by the money men ? It's wrong.

So no matter what way you look at it, the paper trail leads you back to the unfair investment, but don't blame Dublin, it's the GAA who have created the monster but unless things are radically changed, in time the monster will end up costing the GAA big time.
"
Agreed. I don't think many actually blame Dublin, it was a massive mess up by the gaa. Dublin benefited but it was not their doing."
Well Dublin attract criticism as well because they go on the defensive and try to convince themselves and others that their success has nothing to do with unfair investment and other perks. Nobody wants their playing career tainted by constant reminders of unfairness, so it's understandable. I heard Pat Gilroy say that "nobody was giving out when Kerry and Kilkenny were winning everything", he's right, people weren't giving out because people understood their successes had nothing to do with unfair investment by the GAA and Government. "]How much money from either the government or GAA goes into their squad? None I'd be guessing!"]How do you mean "into the squad" ? Sure the squad is the one of the end products of the investment."]You are still missing the point. If this current team is the product of the government's/GAA's investment in underage Dublin football/social projects then why arent they winning All Ireland Minor titles every year?"]Quite simply cause that is not the age they want them to achieve prime fitness etc. It's all geared towards when they hit 20 and beyond. Like any professional outfit burn out is a huge thing. Dubs couldn't give a toss about minor or u20. And if that's the hope you holding onto for them to fade away then you can forget about it. Reading while back about the Kildare lad who played and won against them at minor, same fella he came up against in a match few years later took him apart. It's all about been primed for senior. Ask any dub this and those who are been honest will say the same, Meath have over the past 5 years beat dubs at minor more often than lost. Meet at senior it's entirely different."]There is a limited connection between underage and senior success in sport, fact. Take a look at Con O'Callaghan's incredible development as a good example of the jump needed. Minors are only young lads and shouldn't be expected to turn into men before their time.

I posed the question earlier regarding Dublin's "best" player and probably the best player in the country, certainly in his position, and that player is Brian Fenton, the current footballer of the year, the second time he has won the award in two years. Great player, no one can question that.

Well believe it or not Brian Fenton was told he wasn't good enough for the Dublin Minor team about 10 years ago.

Ironically the manager was none other than Dessie Farrell.

I hope this helps to answer the good question Viking66 directed at me yesterday.
"]Good answer. So you are saying Dublin have a really good longterm approach to developing senior footballers? What is stopping other counties doing this? If other counties prioritise minor success as the traditional route to developing good senior players and this is why they are coming up short then why dont they change their approach?"]There are some people who are using the funding stick to beat Dublin and to tarnish their achievements which I don't subscribe to but the GAA need to confront the reality that unless the playing field is 'somewhat' levelled, players in a lot of counties are going to walk away due to the amount of time they have to dedicate and how little they are getting in return. Add into this mix, the perception that the system is rigged towards the wealth counties with funding and big sponsorship deals. Do the GAA want to have a situation where there are a small portion of counties (like in hurling) who are playing for the big prize? If so, then they are doing a great job achieving this but for the general public and supporters in a large number of counties, I don't believe that this is what they want. Dublin have a large playing population and so they need greater investment to cater for all the youngers who want to play hurling and football at club level but there needs to be a mechanism whereby this is offset against counties will smaller populations who are unable to garner huge sponsorship deals like the big teams in hurling and football can. There will never be a perfect situation but giving Dublin with their population more funding than everyone else, a stadium that they don't have to maintain plus the huge sponsorship deals that they can avail of is only going to make them stronger and currently too strong for the majority of other counties. It will require some creativity thinking but it is worth doing and it should be a process that is underway now."]Being targeted because one is a beneficiary of an unfair policy is nothing new in any walk of life and it's no different for Dublin, saying Dublin haven't benefited from it is akin to saying Ireland hasn't benefited from a low corporation tax rate regime, also deemed unfair by many and we all know how much criticism Ireland receive because of it. "]Dublin have benefitted from what you outlined. When I talk about not wanting to tarnish the achievements, I mean I don't think it is right to tarnish the achievements of the players who happen to play for a county that has benefited from what has happened here. These players didn't have any input into what has gone before. The GAA as an organisation are responsible for ensuring the integrity of the sport and the competitions that are part of the sport and they are and have abducted responsibility in this regard. Just like they abducted responsibility in 2010 when Louth should have been given a replay in the Leinster final when the referee made a decision that everyone knew cost Louth the game but again the GAA authorities abducted responsibility and left it to Meath to offer Louth a replay. This is about the GAA governing the game so that it is fair and as competitive as possible for all the counties participating. I don't expect that weaker teams would start to win All Irelands in the morning if this was achieved but I do expect that everyone with skin in the game want to know that the games are being governed in a fair and equitable way for everyone.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1394 - 07/05/2021 14:57:12    2340424

Link

Replying To wicklowsupport:  "
Replying To AfricanGael:  "[quote=wicklowsupport:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=royaldunne:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=royaldunne:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "Even though the GAA didn't set out to create a "Super Team" in Dublin, they ought to have known that their unfair actions would have done just that. You see, there was a time in Dublin not so long ago when Gaelic games were looked at by many in Dublin as something only "country people" played, "bog ball" it was known as. Clearly they still had lads playing the game, many of them introduced to it by Guards from the country and so on.

There came a point when the GAA became terrified at the reality of other sports getting a foothold in the capital and in the most basic of terms this is what lead to massive investments in Dublin GAA, helped along by Bertie Ahern, who "happened" to be a man steeped in Dublin GAA.

There is an inherent fear of "foreign games" within the GAA dating back to its formation, and it still exists today. All you need to do is read some of the posts here to get a sample of that, it's like going back in time and it's this fear which has lead us to the farcical situation we are in today, especially when it comes to the Leinster Championship, which isn't dying, it's already dead.

Had the "the free market choices" of sport prevailed and not been interfered with by the GAA and the government at the time, then I have no doubt that we would have a more competitive Leinster and All-Ireland championship now and I have no doubt that Dublin would not have won six in a row either. Nobody questions that Dublin wouldn't still have produced good players and that they wouldn't win the odd All-Ireland, of course they would, but they definitely wouldn't have the dominance they have today.

Throw in the use of Croke Park as your home ground, to know every blade of grass like the back of your hand and know your range, sure how could you not win. I just wonder is there anything else the GAA could do to help them.

If it hadn't been for the likes of Kerry, Mayo and Donegal over the last few years, the farce would have been exposed even more.

If you look at a player like Andy Moran of Mayo as an example, who probably played on the best team Mayo ever produced and indeed one of the best teams that ever played, great on the eye, to think that in all likelihood he and that team were denied because of the unfairness of the GAA, is scandalous and simply wrong. That was a classic generational team, not a team helped by millions to create robots, the money even turned Jim Gavin into a robot in the end, if he had stayed in the game much longer he would have been electrocuted with all the wires hanging out of his ears. Will David Clifford of Kerry suffer the same fate as Moran or will time save him, who knows. How many more generational teams will be denied by the money men ? It's wrong.

So no matter what way you look at it, the paper trail leads you back to the unfair investment, but don't blame Dublin, it's the GAA who have created the monster but unless things are radically changed, in time the monster will end up costing the GAA big time.
"
Agreed. I don't think many actually blame Dublin, it was a massive mess up by the gaa. Dublin benefited but it was not their doing."
Well Dublin attract criticism as well because they go on the defensive and try to convince themselves and others that their success has nothing to do with unfair investment and other perks. Nobody wants their playing career tainted by constant reminders of unfairness, so it's understandable. I heard Pat Gilroy say that "nobody was giving out when Kerry and Kilkenny were winning everything", he's right, people weren't giving out because people understood their successes had nothing to do with unfair investment by the GAA and Government. "]How much money from either the government or GAA goes into their squad? None I'd be guessing!"]How do you mean "into the squad" ? Sure the squad is the one of the end products of the investment."]You are still missing the point. If this current team is the product of the government's/GAA's investment in underage Dublin football/social projects then why arent they winning All Ireland Minor titles every year?"]Quite simply cause that is not the age they want them to achieve prime fitness etc. It's all geared towards when they hit 20 and beyond. Like any professional outfit burn out is a huge thing. Dubs couldn't give a toss about minor or u20. And if that's the hope you holding onto for them to fade away then you can forget about it. Reading while back about the Kildare lad who played and won against them at minor, same fella he came up against in a match few years later took him apart. It's all about been primed for senior. Ask any dub this and those who are been honest will say the same, Meath have over the past 5 years beat dubs at minor more often than lost. Meet at senior it's entirely different."]There is a limited connection between underage and senior success in sport, fact. Take a look at Con O'Callaghan's incredible development as a good example of the jump needed. Minors are only young lads and shouldn't be expected to turn into men before their time.

I posed the question earlier regarding Dublin's "best" player and probably the best player in the country, certainly in his position, and that player is Brian Fenton, the current footballer of the year, the second time he has won the award in two years. Great player, no one can question that.

Well believe it or not Brian Fenton was told he wasn't good enough for the Dublin Minor team about 10 years ago.

Ironically the manager was none other than Dessie Farrell.

I hope this helps to answer the good question Viking66 directed at me yesterday.
"]Good answer. So you are saying Dublin have a really good longterm approach to developing senior footballers? What is stopping other counties doing this? If other counties prioritise minor success as the traditional route to developing good senior players and this is why they are coming up short then why dont they change their approach?"]There are some people who are using the funding stick to beat Dublin and to tarnish their achievements which I don't subscribe to but the GAA need to confront the reality that unless the playing field is 'somewhat' levelled, players in a lot of counties are going to walk away due to the amount of time they have to dedicate and how little they are getting in return. Add into this mix, the perception that the system is rigged towards the wealth counties with funding and big sponsorship deals. Do the GAA want to have a situation where there are a small portion of counties (like in hurling) who are playing for the big prize? If so, then they are doing a great job achieving this but for the general public and supporters in a large number of counties, I don't believe that this is what they want. Dublin have a large playing population and so they need greater investment to cater for all the youngers who want to play hurling and football at club level but there needs to be a mechanism whereby this is offset against counties will smaller populations who are unable to garner huge sponsorship deals like the big teams in hurling and football can. There will never be a perfect situation but giving Dublin with their population more funding than everyone else, a stadium that they don't have to maintain plus the huge sponsorship deals that they can avail of is only going to make them stronger and currently too strong for the majority of other counties. It will require some creativity thinking but it is worth doing and it should be a process that is underway now."]Being targeted because one is a beneficiary of an unfair policy is nothing new in any walk of life and it's no different for Dublin, saying Dublin haven't benefited from it is akin to saying Ireland hasn't benefited from a low corporation tax rate regime, also deemed unfair by many and we all know how much criticism Ireland receive because of it. "]Dublin have benefitted from what you outlined. When I talk about not wanting to tarnish the achievements, I mean I don't think it is right to tarnish the achievements of the players who happen to play for a county that has benefited from what has happened here. These players didn't have any input into what has gone before. The GAA as an organisation are responsible for ensuring the integrity of the sport and the competitions that are part of the sport and they are and have abducted responsibility in this regard. Just like they abducted responsibility in 2010 when Louth should have been given a replay in the Leinster final when the referee made a decision that everyone knew cost Louth the game but again the GAA authorities abducted responsibility and left it to Meath to offer Louth a replay. This is about the GAA governing the game so that it is fair and as competitive as possible for all the counties participating. I don't expect that weaker teams would start to win All Irelands in the morning if this was achieved but I do expect that everyone with skin in the game want to know that the games are being governed in a fair and equitable way for everyone."]Well unfortunately when you win something and there is even the slightest hint of unfairness, never mind the well documented facts regarding Dublin, ones achievements will always be tarnished. You touched on the 2010 Leinster final, a final won by Meath but which will always be tarnished by the decision/s of someone else, and who receives the majority of the criticism ? Meath do, not the GAA, so you can't have it every way. But don't assume Dublin are completely blameless in this farce.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1946 - 07/05/2021 15:15:08    2340429

Link

Replying To royaldunne:  "
Replying To Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=royaldunne:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=royaldunne:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "Even though the GAA didn't set out to create a "Super Team" in Dublin, they ought to have known that their unfair actions would have done just that. You see, there was a time in Dublin not so long ago when Gaelic games were looked at by many in Dublin as something only "country people" played, "bog ball" it was known as. Clearly they still had lads playing the game, many of them introduced to it by Guards from the country and so on.

There came a point when the GAA became terrified at the reality of other sports getting a foothold in the capital and in the most basic of terms this is what lead to massive investments in Dublin GAA, helped along by Bertie Ahern, who "happened" to be a man steeped in Dublin GAA.

There is an inherent fear of "foreign games" within the GAA dating back to its formation, and it still exists today. All you need to do is read some of the posts here to get a sample of that, it's like going back in time and it's this fear which has lead us to the farcical situation we are in today, especially when it comes to the Leinster Championship, which isn't dying, it's already dead.

Had the "the free market choices" of sport prevailed and not been interfered with by the GAA and the government at the time, then I have no doubt that we would have a more competitive Leinster and All-Ireland championship now and I have no doubt that Dublin would not have won six in a row either. Nobody questions that Dublin wouldn't still have produced good players and that they wouldn't win the odd All-Ireland, of course they would, but they definitely wouldn't have the dominance they have today.

Throw in the use of Croke Park as your home ground, to know every blade of grass like the back of your hand and know your range, sure how could you not win. I just wonder is there anything else the GAA could do to help them.

If it hadn't been for the likes of Kerry, Mayo and Donegal over the last few years, the farce would have been exposed even more.

If you look at a player like Andy Moran of Mayo as an example, who probably played on the best team Mayo ever produced and indeed one of the best teams that ever played, great on the eye, to think that in all likelihood he and that team were denied because of the unfairness of the GAA, is scandalous and simply wrong. That was a classic generational team, not a team helped by millions to create robots, the money even turned Jim Gavin into a robot in the end, if he had stayed in the game much longer he would have been electrocuted with all the wires hanging out of his ears. Will David Clifford of Kerry suffer the same fate as Moran or will time save him, who knows. How many more generational teams will be denied by the money men ? It's wrong.

So no matter what way you look at it, the paper trail leads you back to the unfair investment, but don't blame Dublin, it's the GAA who have created the monster but unless things are radically changed, in time the monster will end up costing the GAA big time.
"
Agreed. I don't think many actually blame Dublin, it was a massive mess up by the gaa. Dublin benefited but it was not their doing."
Well Dublin attract criticism as well because they go on the defensive and try to convince themselves and others that their success has nothing to do with unfair investment and other perks. Nobody wants their playing career tainted by constant reminders of unfairness, so it's understandable. I heard Pat Gilroy say that "nobody was giving out when Kerry and Kilkenny were winning everything", he's right, people weren't giving out because people understood their successes had nothing to do with unfair investment by the GAA and Government. "]How much money from either the government or GAA goes into their squad? None I'd be guessing!"]How do you mean "into the squad" ? Sure the squad is the one of the end products of the investment."]You are still missing the point. If this current team is the product of the government's/GAA's investment in underage Dublin football/social projects then why arent they winning All Ireland Minor titles every year?"]Quite simply cause that is not the age they want them to achieve prime fitness etc. It's all geared towards when they hit 20 and beyond. Like any professional outfit burn out is a huge thing. Dubs couldn't give a toss about minor or u20. And if that's the hope you holding onto for them to fade away then you can forget about it. Reading while back about the Kildare lad who played and won against them at minor, same fella he came up against in a match few years later took him apart. It's all about been primed for senior. Ask any dub this and those who are been honest will say the same, Meath have over the past 5 years beat dubs at minor more often than lost. Meet at senior it's entirely different."]There is a limited connection between underage and senior success in sport, fact. Take a look at Con O'Callaghan's incredible development as a good example of the jump needed. Minors are only young lads and shouldn't be expected to turn into men before their time.

I posed the question earlier regarding Dublin's "best" player and probably the best player in the country, certainly in his position, and that player is Brian Fenton, the current footballer of the year, the second time he has won the award in two years. Great player, no one can question that.

Well believe it or not Brian Fenton was told he wasn't good enough for the Dublin Minor team about 10 years ago.

Ironically the manager was none other than Dessie Farrell.

I hope this helps to answer the good question Viking66 directed at me yesterday.
"]Good answer. So you are saying Dublin have a really good longterm approach to developing senior footballers? What is stopping other counties doing this? If other counties prioritise minor success as the traditional route to developing good senior players and this is why they are coming up short then why dont they change their approach?"]Funding. Plain and simple.
I'm not going to google this so these figures are going to be off slightly, but last year it was reported dubs got 170+ per registered player. Meath got 70+. Or something crazy like that. Look someone I'm sure will come up with the exact amount, but to be able to see raw talent that has potential and bide ur time can only be done with proper resources and funding."]In what way does funding make the difference? Better food? Better longterm strength and conditioning or skills training? I still dont see how the government funding infrastructure projects at clubs in Dublin to help keep kids out of gangs or off the streets leads to a better intercounty senior team. Maybe the fact that alot of the great team they have currently come from poorer areas has given then a hunger to succeed when up against players from predominantly comfortable backgrounds in other counties. It was often a criticism of many clubs around the country even as late as the 90s that the number of acres your family farmed or the size of the family business directly influenced your chances of being picked to play especially at underage. Most of the worlds great soccer players came from poorer backgrounds also.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3047 - 07/05/2021 21:30:27    2340471

Link

Replying To wicklowsupport:  "
Replying To Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=royaldunne:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=royaldunne:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "Even though the GAA didn't set out to create a "Super Team" in Dublin, they ought to have known that their unfair actions would have done just that. You see, there was a time in Dublin not so long ago when Gaelic games were looked at by many in Dublin as something only "country people" played, "bog ball" it was known as. Clearly they still had lads playing the game, many of them introduced to it by Guards from the country and so on.

There came a point when the GAA became terrified at the reality of other sports getting a foothold in the capital and in the most basic of terms this is what lead to massive investments in Dublin GAA, helped along by Bertie Ahern, who "happened" to be a man steeped in Dublin GAA.

There is an inherent fear of "foreign games" within the GAA dating back to its formation, and it still exists today. All you need to do is read some of the posts here to get a sample of that, it's like going back in time and it's this fear which has lead us to the farcical situation we are in today, especially when it comes to the Leinster Championship, which isn't dying, it's already dead.

Had the "the free market choices" of sport prevailed and not been interfered with by the GAA and the government at the time, then I have no doubt that we would have a more competitive Leinster and All-Ireland championship now and I have no doubt that Dublin would not have won six in a row either. Nobody questions that Dublin wouldn't still have produced good players and that they wouldn't win the odd All-Ireland, of course they would, but they definitely wouldn't have the dominance they have today.

Throw in the use of Croke Park as your home ground, to know every blade of grass like the back of your hand and know your range, sure how could you not win. I just wonder is there anything else the GAA could do to help them.

If it hadn't been for the likes of Kerry, Mayo and Donegal over the last few years, the farce would have been exposed even more.

If you look at a player like Andy Moran of Mayo as an example, who probably played on the best team Mayo ever produced and indeed one of the best teams that ever played, great on the eye, to think that in all likelihood he and that team were denied because of the unfairness of the GAA, is scandalous and simply wrong. That was a classic generational team, not a team helped by millions to create robots, the money even turned Jim Gavin into a robot in the end, if he had stayed in the game much longer he would have been electrocuted with all the wires hanging out of his ears. Will David Clifford of Kerry suffer the same fate as Moran or will time save him, who knows. How many more generational teams will be denied by the money men ? It's wrong.

So no matter what way you look at it, the paper trail leads you back to the unfair investment, but don't blame Dublin, it's the GAA who have created the monster but unless things are radically changed, in time the monster will end up costing the GAA big time.
"
Agreed. I don't think many actually blame Dublin, it was a massive mess up by the gaa. Dublin benefited but it was not their doing."
Well Dublin attract criticism as well because they go on the defensive and try to convince themselves and others that their success has nothing to do with unfair investment and other perks. Nobody wants their playing career tainted by constant reminders of unfairness, so it's understandable. I heard Pat Gilroy say that "nobody was giving out when Kerry and Kilkenny were winning everything", he's right, people weren't giving out because people understood their successes had nothing to do with unfair investment by the GAA and Government. "]How much money from either the government or GAA goes into their squad? None I'd be guessing!"]How do you mean "into the squad" ? Sure the squad is the one of the end products of the investment."]You are still missing the point. If this current team is the product of the government's/GAA's investment in underage Dublin football/social projects then why arent they winning All Ireland Minor titles every year?"]Quite simply cause that is not the age they want them to achieve prime fitness etc. It's all geared towards when they hit 20 and beyond. Like any professional outfit burn out is a huge thing. Dubs couldn't give a toss about minor or u20. And if that's the hope you holding onto for them to fade away then you can forget about it. Reading while back about the Kildare lad who played and won against them at minor, same fella he came up against in a match few years later took him apart. It's all about been primed for senior. Ask any dub this and those who are been honest will say the same, Meath have over the past 5 years beat dubs at minor more often than lost. Meet at senior it's entirely different."]There is a limited connection between underage and senior success in sport, fact. Take a look at Con O'Callaghan's incredible development as a good example of the jump needed. Minors are only young lads and shouldn't be expected to turn into men before their time.

I posed the question earlier regarding Dublin's "best" player and probably the best player in the country, certainly in his position, and that player is Brian Fenton, the current footballer of the year, the second time he has won the award in two years. Great player, no one can question that.

Well believe it or not Brian Fenton was told he wasn't good enough for the Dublin Minor team about 10 years ago.

Ironically the manager was none other than Dessie Farrell.

I hope this helps to answer the good question Viking66 directed at me yesterday.
"]Good answer. So you are saying Dublin have a really good longterm approach to developing senior footballers? What is stopping other counties doing this? If other counties prioritise minor success as the traditional route to developing good senior players and this is why they are coming up short then why dont they change their approach?"]There are some people who are using the funding stick to beat Dublin and to tarnish their achievements which I don't subscribe to but the GAA need to confront the reality that unless the playing field is 'somewhat' levelled, players in a lot of counties are going to walk away due to the amount of time they have to dedicate and how little they are getting in return. Add into this mix, the perception that the system is rigged towards the wealth counties with funding and big sponsorship deals. Do the GAA want to have a situation where there are a small portion of counties (like in hurling) who are playing for the big prize? If so, then they are doing a great job achieving this but for the general public and supporters in a large number of counties, I don't believe that this is what they want. Dublin have a large playing population and so they need greater investment to cater for all the youngers who want to play hurling and football at club level but there needs to be a mechanism whereby this is offset against counties will smaller populations who are unable to garner huge sponsorship deals like the big teams in hurling and football can. There will never be a perfect situation but giving Dublin with their population more funding than everyone else, a stadium that they don't have to maintain plus the huge sponsorship deals that they can avail of is only going to make them stronger and currently too strong for the majority of other counties. It will require some creativity thinking but it is worth doing and it should be a process that is underway now."]What about county boards who make poor choices for commercial officers based not on what they have to offer by way of knowhow or how much effort they are prepared to put in , but instead give it to this fella on the county boards friend, son, brother, clubmate etc. In Wexford we havent been blessed with a great amount of recent success on the pitch, last football AI was in 1918 and last hurling AI was in 1996, but Derek Kent, Michael Martin and the county board, Eanna Martin and numerous other volunteers at clubs up and down the county put in a great effort over the last 5 years to get the counties finances in order from club level upwards. None of that will grow great players though. Good planning and organisation will provide structures to help players get the best out of themselves but they wont make players great who didnt have the potential to start with.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3047 - 07/05/2021 21:44:28    2340473

Link

Replying To bdbuddah:  "What I find annoying about this thread is seeing people from other Provinces, who's teams, such as Galway, have no chance of beating Dublin in the championship jumping in to criticise Meath for not being competitive against Dublin in Leinster. We then read that Meath could not win any provincial championship despite division 3 teams being current Munster and Ulster champions. This current Dublin team are the most dominant team in GAA inter county history. They have been involved in one match in the last 3 championships that they had any realistic danger of losing, a game they played mostly with 14 men.
Playing modern inter county Gaelic football is a huge commitment. Playing with Dublin in the same provincial championship does impact the attractiveness of inter county football and make it harder to get players to commit to inter county panels which then again weakens the team. This is an issue for Meath, transplant any county who currently are contenders in their provence into Leinster and it would be an issue for them also as you would drastically reduce chance if winning a provincial championship so make the commitment required less attractive. I am not saying this because I like whinging, a Meath man didn't start this topic and in responding to some posts it is only a logical response."
This 100%

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17747 - 08/05/2021 08:56:53    2340501

Link

Replying To Viking66:  "
Replying To royaldunne:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=royaldunne:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=royaldunne:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "Even though the GAA didn't set out to create a "Super Team" in Dublin, they ought to have known that their unfair actions would have done just that. You see, there was a time in Dublin not so long ago when Gaelic games were looked at by many in Dublin as something only "country people" played, "bog ball" it was known as. Clearly they still had lads playing the game, many of them introduced to it by Guards from the country and so on.

There came a point when the GAA became terrified at the reality of other sports getting a foothold in the capital and in the most basic of terms this is what lead to massive investments in Dublin GAA, helped along by Bertie Ahern, who "happened" to be a man steeped in Dublin GAA.

There is an inherent fear of "foreign games" within the GAA dating back to its formation, and it still exists today. All you need to do is read some of the posts here to get a sample of that, it's like going back in time and it's this fear which has lead us to the farcical situation we are in today, especially when it comes to the Leinster Championship, which isn't dying, it's already dead.

Had the "the free market choices" of sport prevailed and not been interfered with by the GAA and the government at the time, then I have no doubt that we would have a more competitive Leinster and All-Ireland championship now and I have no doubt that Dublin would not have won six in a row either. Nobody questions that Dublin wouldn't still have produced good players and that they wouldn't win the odd All-Ireland, of course they would, but they definitely wouldn't have the dominance they have today.

Throw in the use of Croke Park as your home ground, to know every blade of grass like the back of your hand and know your range, sure how could you not win. I just wonder is there anything else the GAA could do to help them.

If it hadn't been for the likes of Kerry, Mayo and Donegal over the last few years, the farce would have been exposed even more.

If you look at a player like Andy Moran of Mayo as an example, who probably played on the best team Mayo ever produced and indeed one of the best teams that ever played, great on the eye, to think that in all likelihood he and that team were denied because of the unfairness of the GAA, is scandalous and simply wrong. That was a classic generational team, not a team helped by millions to create robots, the money even turned Jim Gavin into a robot in the end, if he had stayed in the game much longer he would have been electrocuted with all the wires hanging out of his ears. Will David Clifford of Kerry suffer the same fate as Moran or will time save him, who knows. How many more generational teams will be denied by the money men ? It's wrong.

So no matter what way you look at it, the paper trail leads you back to the unfair investment, but don't blame Dublin, it's the GAA who have created the monster but unless things are radically changed, in time the monster will end up costing the GAA big time.
"
Agreed. I don't think many actually blame Dublin, it was a massive mess up by the gaa. Dublin benefited but it was not their doing."
Well Dublin attract criticism as well because they go on the defensive and try to convince themselves and others that their success has nothing to do with unfair investment and other perks. Nobody wants their playing career tainted by constant reminders of unfairness, so it's understandable. I heard Pat Gilroy say that "nobody was giving out when Kerry and Kilkenny were winning everything", he's right, people weren't giving out because people understood their successes had nothing to do with unfair investment by the GAA and Government. "]How much money from either the government or GAA goes into their squad? None I'd be guessing!"]How do you mean "into the squad" ? Sure the squad is the one of the end products of the investment."]You are still missing the point. If this current team is the product of the government's/GAA's investment in underage Dublin football/social projects then why arent they winning All Ireland Minor titles every year?"]Quite simply cause that is not the age they want them to achieve prime fitness etc. It's all geared towards when they hit 20 and beyond. Like any professional outfit burn out is a huge thing. Dubs couldn't give a toss about minor or u20. And if that's the hope you holding onto for them to fade away then you can forget about it. Reading while back about the Kildare lad who played and won against them at minor, same fella he came up against in a match few years later took him apart. It's all about been primed for senior. Ask any dub this and those who are been honest will say the same, Meath have over the past 5 years beat dubs at minor more often than lost. Meet at senior it's entirely different."]There is a limited connection between underage and senior success in sport, fact. Take a look at Con O'Callaghan's incredible development as a good example of the jump needed. Minors are only young lads and shouldn't be expected to turn into men before their time.

I posed the question earlier regarding Dublin's "best" player and probably the best player in the country, certainly in his position, and that player is Brian Fenton, the current footballer of the year, the second time he has won the award in two years. Great player, no one can question that.

Well believe it or not Brian Fenton was told he wasn't good enough for the Dublin Minor team about 10 years ago.

Ironically the manager was none other than Dessie Farrell.

I hope this helps to answer the good question Viking66 directed at me yesterday.
"]Good answer. So you are saying Dublin have a really good longterm approach to developing senior footballers? What is stopping other counties doing this? If other counties prioritise minor success as the traditional route to developing good senior players and this is why they are coming up short then why dont they change their approach?"]Funding. Plain and simple.
I'm not going to google this so these figures are going to be off slightly, but last year it was reported dubs got 170+ per registered player. Meath got 70+. Or something crazy like that. Look someone I'm sure will come up with the exact amount, but to be able to see raw talent that has potential and bide ur time can only be done with proper resources and funding."]In what way does funding make the difference? Better food? Better longterm strength and conditioning or skills training? I still dont see how the government funding infrastructure projects at clubs in Dublin to help keep kids out of gangs or off the streets leads to a better intercounty senior team. Maybe the fact that alot of the great team they have currently come from poorer areas has given then a hunger to succeed when up against players from predominantly comfortable backgrounds in other counties. It was often a criticism of many clubs around the country even as late as the 90s that the number of acres your family farmed or the size of the family business directly influenced your chances of being picked to play especially at underage. Most of the worlds great soccer players came from poorer backgrounds also."]Ahh come here. If you don't want to see then that's fine. But if you saying that per registered player one county receives multiples of funding over their closest rivals and then blaming the one receiving f all for not been able to beat the other is hypothetical and ostrich like.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17747 - 08/05/2021 09:06:15    2340502

Link

Regarding Galway beating Dubs. They drew with them in the league down in Salthill a few years ago. They also played them in the All Ireland semi in Aug 2018. They were even in the first half and Galway were awarded a peno. Unfortunately Cluxton saved it, Dubs went on to win out in the second half easily enough. Missed peno cost Galway dear.

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2263 - 08/05/2021 12:07:55    2340520

Link

There is an issue here with the argument that this is all down to money and funding and that is that Dublin hurlers have not won these multiple titles that the footballers have. We won a league and Leinster 8 and 10 years ago under Anthony Daly with a very talented bunch of players but that is the extent at county senior level and I have seen nothing to demonstrate that this will change anytime soon.If you wish to suggest otherwise then that is fine but it is purely speculation and if anything the performances have regressed. Anthony Cunningham's tenure was a disaster for Dublin hurling and it is still struggling to recover.
Finance of course is essential but it is far from the be all and end all and there is no shortage of finance in all the main contenders for All Ireland's.
Coaching and shrewd management are vital and Pat Gilroy, Jim Gavin and Dessie Farrell are all successful and committed individuals in their own right who have spent their lives involved in Dublin Football.
They have also been lucky to have some very knowledgeable people work with them to enable the players to reach their potential while following their own paths professionally.
Lastly,best of luck to Dublin hurlers against Kilkenny today. Hopefully there will be signs of promise for these no less committed players.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 08/05/2021 12:08:54    2340522

Link

Replying To Viking66:  "
Replying To royaldunne:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=royaldunne:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=royaldunne:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "Even though the GAA didn't set out to create a "Super Team" in Dublin, they ought to have known that their unfair actions would have done just that. You see, there was a time in Dublin not so long ago when Gaelic games were looked at by many in Dublin as something only "country people" played, "bog ball" it was known as. Clearly they still had lads playing the game, many of them introduced to it by Guards from the country and so on.

There came a point when the GAA became terrified at the reality of other sports getting a foothold in the capital and in the most basic of terms this is what lead to massive investments in Dublin GAA, helped along by Bertie Ahern, who "happened" to be a man steeped in Dublin GAA.

There is an inherent fear of "foreign games" within the GAA dating back to its formation, and it still exists today. All you need to do is read some of the posts here to get a sample of that, it's like going back in time and it's this fear which has lead us to the farcical situation we are in today, especially when it comes to the Leinster Championship, which isn't dying, it's already dead.

Had the "the free market choices" of sport prevailed and not been interfered with by the GAA and the government at the time, then I have no doubt that we would have a more competitive Leinster and All-Ireland championship now and I have no doubt that Dublin would not have won six in a row either. Nobody questions that Dublin wouldn't still have produced good players and that they wouldn't win the odd All-Ireland, of course they would, but they definitely wouldn't have the dominance they have today.

Throw in the use of Croke Park as your home ground, to know every blade of grass like the back of your hand and know your range, sure how could you not win. I just wonder is there anything else the GAA could do to help them.

If it hadn't been for the likes of Kerry, Mayo and Donegal over the last few years, the farce would have been exposed even more.

If you look at a player like Andy Moran of Mayo as an example, who probably played on the best team Mayo ever produced and indeed one of the best teams that ever played, great on the eye, to think that in all likelihood he and that team were denied because of the unfairness of the GAA, is scandalous and simply wrong. That was a classic generational team, not a team helped by millions to create robots, the money even turned Jim Gavin into a robot in the end, if he had stayed in the game much longer he would have been electrocuted with all the wires hanging out of his ears. Will David Clifford of Kerry suffer the same fate as Moran or will time save him, who knows. How many more generational teams will be denied by the money men ? It's wrong.

So no matter what way you look at it, the paper trail leads you back to the unfair investment, but don't blame Dublin, it's the GAA who have created the monster but unless things are radically changed, in time the monster will end up costing the GAA big time.
"
Agreed. I don't think many actually blame Dublin, it was a massive mess up by the gaa. Dublin benefited but it was not their doing."
Well Dublin attract criticism as well because they go on the defensive and try to convince themselves and others that their success has nothing to do with unfair investment and other perks. Nobody wants their playing career tainted by constant reminders of unfairness, so it's understandable. I heard Pat Gilroy say that "nobody was giving out when Kerry and Kilkenny were winning everything", he's right, people weren't giving out because people understood their successes had nothing to do with unfair investment by the GAA and Government. "]How much money from either the government or GAA goes into their squad? None I'd be guessing!"]How do you mean "into the squad" ? Sure the squad is the one of the end products of the investment."]You are still missing the point. If this current team is the product of the government's/GAA's investment in underage Dublin football/social projects then why arent they winning All Ireland Minor titles every year?"]Quite simply cause that is not the age they want them to achieve prime fitness etc. It's all geared towards when they hit 20 and beyond. Like any professional outfit burn out is a huge thing. Dubs couldn't give a toss about minor or u20. And if that's the hope you holding onto for them to fade away then you can forget about it. Reading while back about the Kildare lad who played and won against them at minor, same fella he came up against in a match few years later took him apart. It's all about been primed for senior. Ask any dub this and those who are been honest will say the same, Meath have over the past 5 years beat dubs at minor more often than lost. Meet at senior it's entirely different."]There is a limited connection between underage and senior success in sport, fact. Take a look at Con O'Callaghan's incredible development as a good example of the jump needed. Minors are only young lads and shouldn't be expected to turn into men before their time.

I posed the question earlier regarding Dublin's "best" player and probably the best player in the country, certainly in his position, and that player is Brian Fenton, the current footballer of the year, the second time he has won the award in two years. Great player, no one can question that.

Well believe it or not Brian Fenton was told he wasn't good enough for the Dublin Minor team about 10 years ago.

Ironically the manager was none other than Dessie Farrell.

I hope this helps to answer the good question Viking66 directed at me yesterday.
"]Good answer. So you are saying Dublin have a really good longterm approach to developing senior footballers? What is stopping other counties doing this? If other counties prioritise minor success as the traditional route to developing good senior players and this is why they are coming up short then why dont they change their approach?"]Funding. Plain and simple.
I'm not going to google this so these figures are going to be off slightly, but last year it was reported dubs got 170+ per registered player. Meath got 70+. Or something crazy like that. Look someone I'm sure will come up with the exact amount, but to be able to see raw talent that has potential and bide ur time can only be done with proper resources and funding."]In what way does funding make the difference? Better food? Better longterm strength and conditioning or skills training? I still dont see how the government funding infrastructure projects at clubs in Dublin to help keep kids out of gangs or off the streets leads to a better intercounty senior team. Maybe the fact that alot of the great team they have currently come from poorer areas has given then a hunger to succeed when up against players from predominantly comfortable backgrounds in other counties. It was often a criticism of many clubs around the country even as late as the 90s that the number of acres your family farmed or the size of the family business directly influenced your chances of being picked to play especially at underage. Most of the worlds great soccer players came from poorer backgrounds also."]GAA apologists are getting really tiresome.

So funding makes no difference in the development of players? Someone should tell professional sports organisations all across the world.

If the extra millions of funding pumped into Dublin has made no difference over the last 15 years then it has been a huge waste of money and out of character for an organisation frequently referred to as "grab all" and should be stopped straight away before any more is wasted.

On the other hand if it has been successfully spent and has caused the collapse of the all Ireland as a serious competition (which IMO it has) then it should be stopped straight away.

Either way what is happening is ridiculous and people who can't see the problem really aren't helping.

Greenfield (Meath) - Posts: 455 - 08/05/2021 13:02:43    2340528

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Replying To Dubh_linn:  "There is an issue here with the argument that this is all down to money and funding and that is that Dublin hurlers have not won these multiple titles that the footballers have. We won a league and Leinster 8 and 10 years ago under Anthony Daly with a very talented bunch of players but that is the extent at county senior level and I have seen nothing to demonstrate that this will change anytime soon.If you wish to suggest otherwise then that is fine but it is purely speculation and if anything the performances have regressed. Anthony Cunningham's tenure was a disaster for Dublin hurling and it is still struggling to recover.
Finance of course is essential but it is far from the be all and end all and there is no shortage of finance in all the main contenders for All Ireland's.
Coaching and shrewd management are vital and Pat Gilroy, Jim Gavin and Dessie Farrell are all successful and committed individuals in their own right who have spent their lives involved in Dublin Football.
They have also been lucky to have some very knowledgeable people work with them to enable the players to reach their potential while following their own paths professionally.
Lastly,best of luck to Dublin hurlers against Kilkenny today. Hopefully there will be signs of promise for these no less committed players."
Dublin hurlers/minors etc blah blah.

Strawman tactics plain and simple.

Greenfield (Meath) - Posts: 455 - 08/05/2021 13:04:06    2340529

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Replying To galwayford:  "Regarding Galway beating Dubs. They drew with them in the league down in Salthill a few years ago. They also played them in the All Ireland semi in Aug 2018. They were even in the first half and Galway were awarded a peno. Unfortunately Cluxton saved it, Dubs went on to win out in the second half easily enough. Missed peno cost Galway dear."
If you replayed that game 100 times the dubs would have won each time.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 885 - 08/05/2021 14:10:48    2340538

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Replying To Greenfield:  "Dublin hurlers/minors etc blah blah.

Strawman tactics plain and simple."
You may not like the fact but nevertheless that's what it is and will remain until you show it to be otherwise.
If you cannot then that simple reinforces it.
Best of luck to Meath this year.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 08/05/2021 15:06:34    2340546

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