National Forum

The GAA And "Northern Ireland"

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Replying To realdub:  "
Replying To AfricanGael:  "[quote=realdub:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "They may as well name it the All-Dublin. But sure who could begrudge Dublin, wouldn't Tyrone, Kerry, Mayo etc all have bought the same colanders had they been given the money as well, I'm praying Dublin win at least 10 in a row and more hopefully, and they'd be expected to as well, hopefully by that time there will be a united Ireland, and the GAA will be put in their rightful place in a new modern forward looking country, a mere parochial sporting organisation."
So whats your point regarding my post?"
You seem like a man of average intelligence, so I have no doubt you'll figure it all out by yourself, it would be cheating if I had to help you, and we know Dubs would never cheat, would they."]Well average I may be but going by your explanation you appear to be below that average,but I'm sure you'll carry on regardless."]By the way Doctor , I'm still waiting for your non existent data , and waiting I'll be. :-).

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1552 - 19/04/2021 13:31:32    2337860

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Replying To AfricanGael:  "
Replying To fainleog:  "[quote=DL_Man:  "Regarding the use of names other than "Northern Ireland", take a look at this from an Irish Times article this year:

In the machinations that led to the establishment of Northern Ireland, superbly described by O'Leary, Edward Carson used the term "six plantation counties" or simply "six counties". How is it then that these terms provoke howls of outrage from unionists and much of Ireland's commentariat when used today?

"The Six Counties" is a perfectly legitimate term for Northern Ireland and it was used by unionist supremacists themselves. In January 1920, the fiercely unionist Walter Long visited the North of Ireland ... he added the proviso:

"the people in the inner circle hold the view that the new province should consist of the six counties ... (to prevent) the supremacy of the Unionists from being seriously threatened".


Source: https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/defining-the-sub-polity-that-is-northern-ireland-1.4517000

"The North" and "The Six Counties" are just names, and ones befitting of a state born out of gerrymandering and partition. Getting offended by these terms is ridiculous."
You are absolutely correct. The six counties are in the North East of Ireland. Part of your county, Donegal, is further North
than any of the six counties, so to call the six counties Northern Ireland is ignoring Donegals geographical location.
Likewise calling the six counties Ulster is incorrect as counties Donegal, Monaghan and Cavan are also in Ulster."
Donegal is in the North West and I've never heard anyone refer to to it any differently. I've never heard any Irish person say Dublin is in Eastern Ireland or that Galway is in Western Ireland. So I think we all know at this stage what counties are in Northern Ireland, and Donegal isn't one of them.

I think some people here don't realise the importance of language in a conflict zone, it's hugely important whether it's in Ireland or in the Middle East, or wherever a conflict over territory exists."]Indeed it is important, and a large percentage of GAA members and supporters in that "conflict zone" would not refer to the jurisdiction as "Northern Ireland" in conversation, or even in formal correspondence. Read the original post that you're replying to regarding the use of the term "Six Counties". The term is inoffensive - It doesn't infer anything regarding the ownership or constitutional position of the area. "The North" is a shorthand way of saying Northern Ireland for many people and is just the easiest way to refer to the area.

I don't boycott the use of the term Northern Ireland myself, although I rather not use it, and particularly, I object to the idea of a "Northern Irish" identity - NI only exists because of a sectarian partition and should not be celebrated.

DL_Man (Donegal) - Posts: 108 - 19/04/2021 13:58:45    2337867

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Replying To AfricanGael:  "
Replying To realdub:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=realdub:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "They may as well name it the All-Dublin. But sure who could begrudge Dublin, wouldn't Tyrone, Kerry, Mayo etc all have bought the same colanders had they been given the money as well, I'm praying Dublin win at least 10 in a row and more hopefully, and they'd be expected to as well, hopefully by that time there will be a united Ireland, and the GAA will be put in their rightful place in a new modern forward looking country, a mere parochial sporting organisation."
So whats your point regarding my post?"
You seem like a man of average intelligence, so I have no doubt you'll figure it all out by yourself, it would be cheating if I had to help you, and we know Dubs would never cheat, would they."]Well average I may be but going by your explanation you appear to be below that average,but I'm sure you'll carry on regardless."]By the way Doctor , I'm still waiting for your non existent data , and waiting I'll be. :-)."]Oh I have given up trying to reply to that post at this stage, but thankfully the mainstream media are at last, going to go there, so keep your eyes peeled.

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8135 - 19/04/2021 14:06:51    2337870

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I dunno ... I take a day away from this forum and now yis are all fighting like cats and dogs ... all so unnecessary. I'll leave yis to it ...

Onion Breath (Carlow) - Posts: 1305 - 19/04/2021 14:15:09    2337874

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Replying To realdub:  "
Replying To AfricanGael:  "[quote=realdub:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=realdub:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "They may as well name it the All-Dublin. But sure who could begrudge Dublin, wouldn't Tyrone, Kerry, Mayo etc all have bought the same colanders had they been given the money as well, I'm praying Dublin win at least 10 in a row and more hopefully, and they'd be expected to as well, hopefully by that time there will be a united Ireland, and the GAA will be put in their rightful place in a new modern forward looking country, a mere parochial sporting organisation."
So whats your point regarding my post?"
You seem like a man of average intelligence, so I have no doubt you'll figure it all out by yourself, it would be cheating if I had to help you, and we know Dubs would never cheat, would they."]Well average I may be but going by your explanation you appear to be below that average,but I'm sure you'll carry on regardless."]By the way Doctor , I'm still waiting for your non existent data , and waiting I'll be. :-)."]Oh I have given up trying to reply to that post at this stage, but thankfully the mainstream media are at last, going to go there, so keep your eyes peeled."]Well I'm glad you finally gave up because you were digging yourself deeper into a hole. No doubt in time data will be compiled , but at the moment that data doesn't exist.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1552 - 19/04/2021 14:19:59    2337876

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Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "8 pages of a nonsense thread. The mind boggles as to why people bother."
Very well said PoolSturgeon. It's hard to believe that a thread started by a troll hell bent on stirring the pot has gathered such legs.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5489 - 19/04/2021 16:24:38    2337887

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Replying To Greengrass:  "Very well said PoolSturgeon. It's hard to believe that a thread started by a troll hell bent on stirring the pot has gathered such legs."
9 pages with dozens of posts in 2 days and you decide now that Onion Breath is a troll, well if he is what does that say about the seasoned campaigners, long term posters who fell for it and responded at will with vigor.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2386 - 19/04/2021 20:26:08    2337919

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Replying To fainleog:  "I would not agree with you that FF do not want a United Ireland, certainly Micheal Martin is not enthusiastic but FF
is a republican party. Eamonn O Cuiv FF is most enthusiastic about Irish unity, Jim O Callaghan FF has put forward
papers on progressing Irish unity recently. FF grassroots would be very much in favour of a United Ireland."
There's a very good chance that Jim O Callaghan will be the FF leader and Coveney will eventually get the FG top job, both men in my view would push for a united Ireland.

tireoghainabu (Tyrone) - Posts: 141 - 19/04/2021 20:36:01    2337920

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Replying To supersub15:  "9 pages with dozens of posts in 2 days and you decide now that Onion Breath is a troll, well if he is what does that say about the seasoned campaigners, long term posters who fell for it and responded at will with vigor."
Look back over the posts. I said it well before today.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5489 - 19/04/2021 20:58:29    2337927

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Replying To tireoghainabu:  "There's a very good chance that Jim O Callaghan will be the FF leader and Coveney will eventually get the FG top job, both men in my view would push for a united Ireland."
I think what will be most important in the next number of years is the way the Republic of Ireland performs in the context
of Europe and to what extent the U.K. will be adversely affected by Brexit. The U.K is very much a class conscious society,
not to mention of Lords and Sirs.This is of no significance in the Republic of Ireland. I believe a United Ireland is very much
in the hands of the people of the six counties as you are very much pushing an open door in the Republic of Ireland.
Demographic changes are on your side and more of the middle ground are eying the possibility of unification. In the
meantime the border is becoming less significant. We can see that with the protocol and cross border cooperation for
example Derry and Donegal regional cooperation. The appeal of Europe will be significant.

fainleog (Limerick) - Posts: 567 - 19/04/2021 22:17:45    2337949

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Replying To Greengrass:  "Look back over the posts. I said it well before today."
With respect, that may very well be true but you still continued to reply / post at will, and some of the reply's to his posts by some posters were measured on the Richter scale, however I'm not at all convinced that Onion Breath is a troll if he is he is pretty good at it, much better than a couple of distinguished posters that are posting here over a long time, however no one has picked them up on it, you wouldn't need a qualification in literature, journalism or anything else to identify them, anyway what's more important to me is I found it all entertaining and stress free.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2386 - 20/04/2021 10:03:38    2337980

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I see Boris was on Spotlight last night saying there will be no border poll for a very very long time, going by Boris's track record I'd say there could be a border poll in the next 2 or 3 years so,
MM of course has no interest in a united Ireland, Dev would be proud of him.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 1534 - 20/04/2021 10:11:33    2337983

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "I see Boris was on Spotlight last night saying there will be no border poll for a very very long time, going by Boris's track record I'd say there could be a border poll in the next 2 or 3 years so,
MM of course has no interest in a united Ireland, Dev would be proud of him."
Boris can do what he likes , he doesn't have to ask "Daddy" for permission any longer. He could as easily erect a hard border ,build a bridge or dump the Unionists , anyone's guess. He has the southies by the goolies though , with the common travel area card in his back pocket.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1552 - 20/04/2021 11:14:06    2337997

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Replying To supersub15:  "With respect, that may very well be true but you still continued to reply / post at will, and some of the reply's to his posts by some posters were measured on the Richter scale, however I'm not at all convinced that Onion Breath is a troll if he is he is pretty good at it, much better than a couple of distinguished posters that are posting here over a long time, however no one has picked them up on it, you wouldn't need a qualification in literature, journalism or anything else to identify them, anyway what's more important to me is I found it all entertaining and stress free."
He is a troll and if you found that ALL amusing then it doesn't make you much better

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2225 - 20/04/2021 12:27:02    2338007

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "He is a troll and if you found that ALL amusing then it doesn't make you much better"
Well I am sorry to hear that, I know I am anything but perfect, but I am not a troll or the equivalent if there is an equivalent, I have tried to make my posts here acceptable to all and entertaining where / when applicable but apparently without success, the mind boggles.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2386 - 20/04/2021 14:28:29    2338030

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "He is a troll and if you found that ALL amusing then it doesn't make you much better"
I'm not a troll and never have been. I have an opinion on an issue, I have said it and I backed it up in response.

Then it got all out of hand with the issue of a united Ireland and justification or not for the IRA campaign etc etc so I stayed away for a while and it just went on. No one is now talking about the issue in my opening post so I'll leave it now after this but despite everything that's been said nobody has said anything that convinces me I'm not 100% right, in my opinion, that the GAA have a responsibility to change tack in relation to how they refer to what is "Northern Ireland".

Onion Breath (Carlow) - Posts: 1305 - 20/04/2021 15:01:34    2338037

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Replying To supersub15:  "Well I am sorry to hear that, I know I am anything but perfect, but I am not a troll or the equivalent if there is an equivalent, I have tried to make my posts here acceptable to all and entertaining where / when applicable but apparently without success, the mind boggles."
Some of the stuff that gets dragged out here on a regular basis isn't really the topic to poke fun at the same way sport would be. I have no problem having a sensible debate about certain issues but when the OP goes off on stereotyping and sending insults over things he clearly hasn't a clue about its a long way from entertainment and yes, it is trolling. Thats why I made that comment. Nothing to do with anything previous from yourself. I'll happily take your word on the above post.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2225 - 20/04/2021 15:59:40    2338050

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Replying To Onion Breath:  "I'm not a troll and never have been. I have an opinion on an issue, I have said it and I backed it up in response.

Then it got all out of hand with the issue of a united Ireland and justification or not for the IRA campaign etc etc so I stayed away for a while and it just went on. No one is now talking about the issue in my opening post so I'll leave it now after this but despite everything that's been said nobody has said anything that convinces me I'm not 100% right, in my opinion, that the GAA have a responsibility to change tack in relation to how they refer to what is "Northern Ireland"."
Actually you mentioned the IRA in your first statement. Your inaccurate opinion was challenged by several posters who recieved insults and ridicule for opposing it. Call that whatever you want but trolling seems a good fit.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2225 - 20/04/2021 16:10:14    2338053

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "Some of the stuff that gets dragged out here on a regular basis isn't really the topic to poke fun at the same way sport would be. I have no problem having a sensible debate about certain issues but when the OP goes off on stereotyping and sending insults over things he clearly hasn't a clue about its a long way from entertainment and yes, it is trolling. Thats why I made that comment. Nothing to do with anything previous from yourself. I'll happily take your word on the above post."
SaffronDon can I ask you a few genuine questions.

How are the ordinary people in the north getting on at this time with the riots and the Brexit situation is there a worry things could get worse?

I know there is Catholics and Protestants who get on in society but overall is there any solution to bring full peace to both communities or have things gone beyond that point?

If we ever achieve an United Ireland how or what can be done to make unionist's feel they have a role or a part to play in the country and what compromises would have to be made to keep peace?

Does the PSNI have a sizeable Catholic membership now?

And has you or anyone in your local GAA club ever had hassle or harassment for being GAA members from police/army or from the loyalist community, if so would you be able to tell?

DUALSUPPORT (Limerick) - Posts: 968 - 20/04/2021 16:44:56    2338064

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Replying To DUALSUPPORT:  "SaffronDon can I ask you a few genuine questions.

How are the ordinary people in the north getting on at this time with the riots and the Brexit situation is there a worry things could get worse?

I know there is Catholics and Protestants who get on in society but overall is there any solution to bring full peace to both communities or have things gone beyond that point?

If we ever achieve an United Ireland how or what can be done to make unionist's feel they have a role or a part to play in the country and what compromises would have to be made to keep peace?

Does the PSNI have a sizeable Catholic membership now?

And has you or anyone in your local GAA club ever had hassle or harassment for being GAA members from police/army or from the loyalist community, if so would you be able to tell?"
I think you are putting too much emphasis on religion DUALSUPPORT. It's really a question of identity, Loyalist/Unionist or Nationalist/Republican and the numbers involved in violence would be relatively small, and nearly always coming from working class areas. As for full peace, that won't happen anytime soon, it could happen with the right leadership and investment, but will take many many years.

There are many compromises being talked about at the moment to appease the Loyalist/Unionist community ranging from a new flag, anthem, dual citizenship for the entire island of Ireland and many more. I believe one in every three in the PSNI are Catholic, something in that area.

When it comes to GAA members being targeted, plenty have been, but I never believe it's because they are members of the GAA, it just makes them more identifiable, in the same way as someone in Belfast wearing a Glasgow Rangers top is 99.99% more likely to be a Loyalist/Unionist than a Nationalist/Republican. Again, as I said earlier, it's all about identity.

There was a dark time of course when it was tit for tat, any Catholic or Protestant will do, but again this was done to strike fear into either Republicans or Loyalists communities, so once again we arrive back at identity.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1552 - 20/04/2021 18:53:51    2338084

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