National Forum

The GAA And "Northern Ireland"

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Replying To tireoghainabu:  "
Replying To Greengrass:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=tireoghainabu:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "Well you're really talking about the Westminster election when you refer to 1918, but while there wasn't a referendum in Ireland, it could be argued that it was a proxy referendum. It was the "Irish Unionists" who threatened the slaughter and dug their heels in."
Of course it was a Wetsminster election, we Irish were not allowed to have our own elections. If you know anything about the treaty negotiations you would know that Lloyd George gave Michael Collins the ultimatum sign or face the consequences of all out war."
Well of course not, and why would "we Irish" be allowed. That's a convenient hop between election and treaty."]Those who negotiated the Treaty were representatives of the first Dáil which was made up of those elected in the 1918 election."]You totally miss my point, the Dail representatives were given the choice of "voting for the treaty" or face "all out war"."]Apologies tireoghan. That reply was meant for AfricanGael. I was replying to his assertion that it was quite a convenient hop from election to treaty.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5489 - 18/04/2021 21:39:22    2337773

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Replying To AfricanGael:  "They may as well name it the All-Dublin. But sure who could begrudge Dublin, wouldn't Tyrone, Kerry, Mayo etc all have bought the same colanders had they been given the money as well, I'm praying Dublin win at least 10 in a row and more hopefully, and they'd be expected to as well, hopefully by that time there will be a united Ireland, and the GAA will be put in their rightful place in a new modern forward looking country, a mere parochial sporting organisation."
So whats your point regarding my post?

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8134 - 18/04/2021 21:46:44    2337774

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Replying To P.Mckenna:  "Only sharing what I think & what I know & I recognise It may not suit the victim narrative. But there you go."
That is your problem with your wee mentality, you cannot see beyond your own circle. You ignore what opinion
polls are conveying. Scotland will leave the U.K, they want to be part of the E.U. More and more people in the six
counties see a United Ireland more attractive, with the added advantage of been part of the E.U.

fainleog (Limerick) - Posts: 567 - 18/04/2021 22:00:27    2337776

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Replying To tireoghainabu:  "
Replying To Greengrass:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=tireoghainabu:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "Well you're really talking about the Westminster election when you refer to 1918, but while there wasn't a referendum in Ireland, it could be argued that it was a proxy referendum. It was the "Irish Unionists" who threatened the slaughter and dug their heels in."
Of course it was a Wetsminster election, we Irish were not allowed to have our own elections. If you know anything about the treaty negotiations you would know that Lloyd George gave Michael Collins the ultimatum sign or face the consequences of all out war."
Well of course not, and why would "we Irish" be allowed. That's a convenient hop between election and treaty."]Those who negotiated the Treaty were representatives of the first Dáil which was made up of those elected in the 1918 election."]You totally miss my point, the Dail representatives were given the choice of "voting for the treaty" or face "all out war"."]You seem to forget the results of the 1918 election , a democratic vote over- ruled by the Brits. -
- On the contrary, what I disagree with is your assertion that the 1918 election results were overruled by the Brits, i'm not talking about the treaty at all and all I wanted you to do was tell me why you believed the election results were overruled, without fast forwarding to the treaty.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1552 - 18/04/2021 22:06:34    2337777

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Replying To realdub:  "
Replying To AfricanGael:  "They may as well name it the All-Dublin. But sure who could begrudge Dublin, wouldn't Tyrone, Kerry, Mayo etc all have bought the same colanders had they been given the money as well, I'm praying Dublin win at least 10 in a row and more hopefully, and they'd be expected to as well, hopefully by that time there will be a united Ireland, and the GAA will be put in their rightful place in a new modern forward looking country, a mere parochial sporting organisation."
So whats your point regarding my post?"
You seem like a man of average intelligence, so I have no doubt you'll figure it all out by yourself, it would be cheating if I had to help you, and we know Dubs would never cheat, would they.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1552 - 18/04/2021 22:17:14    2337778

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Replying To fainleog:  "That is your problem with your wee mentality, you cannot see beyond your own circle. You ignore what opinion
polls are conveying. Scotland will leave the U.K, they want to be part of the E.U. More and more people in the six
counties see a United Ireland more attractive, with the added advantage of been part of the E.U."
Do a wee bit of research. It's not just a case of those in Northern Ireland deciding they want a United ireland - look up what is laid out in the good Friday agreement.
I would certainly support Scottish independence & they could actually thrive as an independent nation as part of the eu. They have natural resources & get up & go.

P.Mckenna (Louth) - Posts: 51 - 18/04/2021 22:27:42    2337780

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The gaa is all Ireland organisation, it was help founded by the IRB, to promote Irish nationalism, its a Irish organisation that is better run then some other sporting organisations, times do change but from so poster to come on from carlow, with little understanding of what the people in the North went through just for playing a game of hurling or football or having to watch their back cause they play our national games, your seriously need to educate yourself, I be happy to meet you when we are allowed over a pint and hopefully can educate you with facts you are lacking, either your a troll and you got your fun or your poorly educated.

cityman73 (Limerick) - Posts: 567 - 18/04/2021 22:42:22    2337784

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The DUP are blocking calls to ban conversion therapy for LGBT people. They make the extreme Trump supporters seem moderate.

Keep your followers poor, angry, in fear and tell them is all the other sides fault. That's in effect what the DUP have done.

There was a great opportunity for Northern Ireland to become an economic hub with one foot in the EU and the other in the UK. They could have become a mini Singapore. But no all that matters is symbols and unions and backward ideals.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10665 - 18/04/2021 22:51:03    2337786

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Replying To P.Mckenna:  "I am sharing with you my experience - family & friends GAA supporters north & south. Those who get up & work every day & those who vote. The fairy tale of a United ireland is just that, a fairy tale. Take yourself up from Limerick & spend a while up there & see if you would feel that you would want that baggage. But in the meantime keep singing Sean South"
Your own comments are fairy tale and just because your mates think as you do you then you proceed to think everyone is of the same opinion as yourself and your mates. You obviously live in a different world. Most of the folk I know in Louth, Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal have a different opinion than the fairyland you live in. You obviously think that your place of residence makes your opinion more important. I think most folk get up every day except the sick and I am not sure what important point you are trying to make.

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2255 - 19/04/2021 00:08:33    2337794

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8 pages of a nonsense thread. The mind boggles as to why people bother.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1565 - 19/04/2021 09:57:46    2337809

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Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "8 pages of a nonsense thread. The mind boggles as to why people bother."
Welcome to the internet ;)

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10665 - 19/04/2021 10:09:13    2337811

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The reality the 'United Ireland question is on the agenda, and regardless of what P. McKenna says SF vote is growing and the unioinst vote is falling - they are going to Alliance. The problem isn't the small number of drug fuelled unionist paramilitaries - its the FF and FG who don't want to engage in a discussion
FF don't want a United Ireland and never will agree to one, it isn't in their interests - but as regards the first question, the media have increasingly called it ni and not the north - this is an agenda from the government....

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1605 - 19/04/2021 11:06:08    2337819

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Regarding the use of names other than "Northern Ireland", take a look at this from an Irish Times article this year:

In the machinations that led to the establishment of Northern Ireland, superbly described by O'Leary, Edward Carson used the term "six plantation counties" or simply "six counties". How is it then that these terms provoke howls of outrage from unionists and much of Ireland's commentariat when used today?

"The Six Counties" is a perfectly legitimate term for Northern Ireland and it was used by unionist supremacists themselves. In January 1920, the fiercely unionist Walter Long visited the North of Ireland ... he added the proviso:

"the people in the inner circle hold the view that the new province should consist of the six counties ... (to prevent) the supremacy of the Unionists from being seriously threatened".


Source: https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/defining-the-sub-polity-that-is-northern-ireland-1.4517000

"The North" and "The Six Counties" are just names, and ones befitting of a state born out of gerrymandering and partition. Getting offended by these terms is ridiculous.

DL_Man (Donegal) - Posts: 108 - 19/04/2021 11:20:55    2337822

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Replying To cuchulainn35:  "The reality the 'United Ireland question is on the agenda, and regardless of what P. McKenna says SF vote is growing and the unioinst vote is falling - they are going to Alliance. The problem isn't the small number of drug fuelled unionist paramilitaries - its the FF and FG who don't want to engage in a discussion
FF don't want a United Ireland and never will agree to one, it isn't in their interests - but as regards the first question, the media have increasingly called it ni and not the north - this is an agenda from the government...."
I would not agree with you that FF do not want a United Ireland, certainly Micheal Martin is not enthusiastic but FF
is a republican party. Eamonn O Cuiv FF is most enthusiastic about Irish unity, Jim O Callaghan FF has put forward
papers on progressing Irish unity recently. FF grassroots would be very much in favour of a United Ireland.

fainleog (Limerick) - Posts: 567 - 19/04/2021 11:44:19    2337828

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Replying To fainleog:  "I would not agree with you that FF do not want a United Ireland, certainly Micheal Martin is not enthusiastic but FF
is a republican party. Eamonn O Cuiv FF is most enthusiastic about Irish unity, Jim O Callaghan FF has put forward
papers on progressing Irish unity recently. FF grassroots would be very much in favour of a United Ireland."
Seems to be a bit of a disconnect within Fianna Fáil about the party's position on unity / Martin's leadership / coalition with Sinn Féin. I don't believe Micheál Martin represents the majority of members when he speaks about the North (or at least I'd like to think so).

DL_Man (Donegal) - Posts: 108 - 19/04/2021 11:58:29    2337832

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Replying To DL_Man:  "Regarding the use of names other than "Northern Ireland", take a look at this from an Irish Times article this year:

In the machinations that led to the establishment of Northern Ireland, superbly described by O'Leary, Edward Carson used the term "six plantation counties" or simply "six counties". How is it then that these terms provoke howls of outrage from unionists and much of Ireland's commentariat when used today?

"The Six Counties" is a perfectly legitimate term for Northern Ireland and it was used by unionist supremacists themselves. In January 1920, the fiercely unionist Walter Long visited the North of Ireland ... he added the proviso:

"the people in the inner circle hold the view that the new province should consist of the six counties ... (to prevent) the supremacy of the Unionists from being seriously threatened".


Source: https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/defining-the-sub-polity-that-is-northern-ireland-1.4517000

"The North" and "The Six Counties" are just names, and ones befitting of a state born out of gerrymandering and partition. Getting offended by these terms is ridiculous."
You are absolutely correct. The six counties are in the North East of Ireland. Part of your county, Donegal, is further North
than any of the six counties, so to call the six counties Northern Ireland is ignoring Donegals geographical location.
Likewise calling the six counties Ulster is incorrect as counties Donegal, Monaghan and Cavan are also in Ulster.

fainleog (Limerick) - Posts: 567 - 19/04/2021 12:00:10    2337833

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Ironically it's going to be Scotland that will do the most to help us achieve our United Ireland once they get the ball rolling

Meath10 (Meath) - Posts: 137 - 19/04/2021 12:56:21    2337846

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Replying To AfricanGael:  "
Replying To realdub:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "They may as well name it the All-Dublin. But sure who could begrudge Dublin, wouldn't Tyrone, Kerry, Mayo etc all have bought the same colanders had they been given the money as well, I'm praying Dublin win at least 10 in a row and more hopefully, and they'd be expected to as well, hopefully by that time there will be a united Ireland, and the GAA will be put in their rightful place in a new modern forward looking country, a mere parochial sporting organisation."
So whats your point regarding my post?"
You seem like a man of average intelligence, so I have no doubt you'll figure it all out by yourself, it would be cheating if I had to help you, and we know Dubs would never cheat, would they."]Well average I may be but going by your explanation you appear to be below that average,but I'm sure you'll carry on regardless.

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8134 - 19/04/2021 13:08:59    2337851

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Replying To fainleog:  "
Replying To DL_Man:  "Regarding the use of names other than "Northern Ireland", take a look at this from an Irish Times article this year:

In the machinations that led to the establishment of Northern Ireland, superbly described by O'Leary, Edward Carson used the term "six plantation counties" or simply "six counties". How is it then that these terms provoke howls of outrage from unionists and much of Ireland's commentariat when used today?

"The Six Counties" is a perfectly legitimate term for Northern Ireland and it was used by unionist supremacists themselves. In January 1920, the fiercely unionist Walter Long visited the North of Ireland ... he added the proviso:

"the people in the inner circle hold the view that the new province should consist of the six counties ... (to prevent) the supremacy of the Unionists from being seriously threatened".


Source: https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/defining-the-sub-polity-that-is-northern-ireland-1.4517000

"The North" and "The Six Counties" are just names, and ones befitting of a state born out of gerrymandering and partition. Getting offended by these terms is ridiculous."
You are absolutely correct. The six counties are in the North East of Ireland. Part of your county, Donegal, is further North
than any of the six counties, so to call the six counties Northern Ireland is ignoring Donegals geographical location.
Likewise calling the six counties Ulster is incorrect as counties Donegal, Monaghan and Cavan are also in Ulster."
Donegal is in the North West and I've never heard anyone refer to to it any differently. I've never heard any Irish person say Dublin is in Eastern Ireland or that Galway is in Western Ireland. So I think we all know at this stage what counties are in Northern Ireland, and Donegal isn't one of them.

I think some people here don't realise the importance of language in a conflict zone, it's hugely important whether it's in Ireland or in the Middle East, or wherever a conflict over territory exists.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1552 - 19/04/2021 13:20:21    2337855

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A lot of people seem to assume that a "United Ireland" means the 6 counties being subsumed into the Republic, our flag, anthem etc etc. I would guess that there will be a lot of compromises

Most rationale people do not want to go back to the violent past, so making compromises on things we hold dear i.e. flag, anthem etc would probably be a requirement to bring the unionists with us (assuming United Ireland was the result of any border poll). It would be ironic if silly symbolism was the thing the stopped it happening.

Lots of thuggery in disadvantaged areas all around the country. Any excuse for a riot. Loyalism and Republicanism is often a flag of convenience. Investment in employment and social activities i.e. clubs (like gaa and other sports) are the road out of this.

I think a lot of people in the Republic need to grow up before we can expect the Unionists to feel welcome. The silly comments you hear directed at Rory McIlroy (who ironically is from a gaa background) when he was conflicted about his nationality were embarrassing. It shows a real lack of understanding by "Southerners" of a certain vintage to the position of the likes of McIlroy.

One good thing is we would probably have a new Bank Holiday..........12th of July......bowler hats ready!!

Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1403 - 19/04/2021 13:30:23    2337859

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