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Replying To Tirchonaillabu2012: "Jezus your just a lost cause. No hope for you." He clearly is. Just replied to him again (mea culpa there), but he's stirring for the reactions. He's plainly ridiculous.
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2383 - 01/06/2021 14:13:30
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Replying To Loughduff Lad: "AfricanGael replied: "Many would play lots of sports and would likely play GAA if it was more inclusive and did not have names and such of divisive figures" So you want to make concessions based on the "likelihood" that moderates might want to play Gaelic games. You have absolutely zero evidence that any significant amount of moderates would want to play Gaelic games if concessions were made and in any case why should any concessions be made to please a few. It's more likely that what you may gain to please a few would be lost by all those who would turn their back on the GAA for making concessions to begin with. ________________________________________________________________________ Yes, as that is literally the question. Have you been asleep? How do we appeal to more in the North. Go back to the start of the thread then to see the questions being asked on how the GAA can appeal to others. What would you do? And I live in the North buddy, I've talked to people. Here is also a link to an article from 8 years ago by an ex-UUP politician. Take from it what you like, I wouldn't be one to quote Unionist politicians but you asked, so note his last paragraph. It's how the GAA is seen by hardliners and moderates, if you do any basic research into the subject or talk to people you'd see the same. Why are you so against changes? I'm saying we should do it for ourselves anyway, not what they are asking for. Not just to entice in moderates, but if it does surely that's a good thing too? Are you saying people will turn away from the GAA due to name changes? Are you serious? The same ones who threatened to leave after Rule 42 and such were removed, those fellas? They're still here pal, and will be after names are changed. Don't be ridiculous, you're making yourself look silly. And are you ok with slaver John Mitchel still being honoured in the GAA? Surely that goes beyond a Catholic/Protestant thing and is into the realms of slavery. Are you against his name being removed too?"
What fellas like yourself don't realize is that what you are advocating actually creates division, that's right read it again.
I'd welcome anyone into a training session whether he was wearing a turban or a bowler hat, I couldn't give a f*** as long as he could do a job for me.
Would I welcome him as much if I thought that my club had to change it's name just to please him, I would in my ****** !
AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 01/06/2021 15:09:05
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Replying To AfricanGael: "I'll tell you what I'm against, cancel culture merchants like yourself who only seemed to have got a tongue since you got a twitter handle or were taught how to log on.
What fellas like yourself don't realize is that what you are advocating actually creates division, that's right read it again.
I'd welcome anyone into a training session whether he was wearing a turban or a bowler hat, I couldn't give a f*** as long as he could do a job for me.
Would I welcome him as much if I thought that my club had to change it's name just to please him, I would in my ****** !" Switching a name of a club due to him being a Slaver is cancel culture? You don't think a Slaver should be cancelled then? Do you agree with his actions?
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2383 - 01/06/2021 15:26:01
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Replying To Loughduff Lad: "He clearly is. Just replied to him again (mea culpa there), but he's stirring for the reactions. He's plainly ridiculous." If you just ignore him/it it might go away but it doesn't really matter, there is no ignore button for posters here but anything by him/it or any similar troll I never read anyway once I'm sure they are trolling. pathetic creatures,
now I don't mind fellas doing a bit if winding up to have a bit of craic about games or whatever but these trolls are only here for a reaction, must keep them going a bit if they get responses so just ignore them, they are sad cases more to be pitied.
Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2747 - 01/06/2021 15:43:51
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Replying To Loughduff Lad: "AfricanGael replied: "Many would play lots of sports and would likely play GAA if it was more inclusive and did not have names and such of divisive figures" So you want to make concessions based on the "likelihood" that moderates might want to play Gaelic games. You have absolutely zero evidence that any significant amount of moderates would want to play Gaelic games if concessions were made and in any case why should any concessions be made to please a few. It's more likely that what you may gain to please a few would be lost by all those who would turn their back on the GAA for making concessions to begin with. ________________________________________________________________________ Yes, as that is literally the question. Have you been asleep? How do we appeal to more in the North. Go back to the start of the thread then to see the questions being asked on how the GAA can appeal to others. What would you do? And I live in the North buddy, I've talked to people. Here is also a link to an article from 8 years ago by an ex-UUP politician. Take from it what you like, I wouldn't be one to quote Unionist politicians but you asked, so note his last paragraph. It's how the GAA is seen by hardliners and moderates, if you do any basic research into the subject or talk to people you'd see the same. Why are you so against changes? I'm saying we should do it for ourselves anyway, not what they are asking for. Not just to entice in moderates, but if it does surely that's a good thing too? Are you saying people will turn away from the GAA due to name changes? Are you serious? The same ones who threatened to leave after Rule 42 and such were removed, those fellas? They're still here pal, and will be after names are changed. Don't be ridiculous, you're making yourself look silly. And are you ok with slaver John Mitchel still being honoured in the GAA? Surely that goes beyond a Catholic/Protestant thing and is into the realms of slavery. Are you against his name being removed too?"
galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2519 - 01/06/2021 15:46:47
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Replying To Loughduff Lad: "Switching a name of a club due to him being a Slaver is cancel culture? You don't think a Slaver should be cancelled then? Do you agree with his actions?" If I were you I'd be more concerned by my so called "Ulster Champions" hovering on the brink of Division 4 than I would be about scurrying around looking for slave owners from the 1800's.
Mind you, to be fair you did show Donegal how to actually play football, I will give you lot that much credit.
AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 01/06/2021 16:53:54
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Replying To AfricanGael: "If I were you I'd be more concerned by my so called "Ulster Champions" hovering on the brink of Division 4 than I would be about scurrying around looking for slave owners from the 1800's.
Mind you, to be fair you did show Donegal how to actually play football, I will give you lot that much credit. " No concern at all. Our manager uses the league as build up, like we did last year. We'll stay up easily.
I note you haven't answered the question. Quite the piece of work, aren't you? Straw man arguments, going off tangents, but are unable to answer a straight question. Pathetic
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2383 - 01/06/2021 20:21:30
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Replying To Loughduff Lad: " Replying To AfricanGael: "If I were you I'd be more concerned by my so called "Ulster Champions" hovering on the brink of Division 4 than I would be about scurrying around looking for slave owners from the 1800's.
Mind you, to be fair you did show Donegal how to actually play football, I will give you lot that much credit. " No concern at all. Our manager uses the league as build up, like we did last year. We'll stay up easily. I note you haven't answered the question. Quite the piece of work, aren't you? Straw man arguments, going off tangents, but are unable to answer a straight question. Pathetic"
Which question, as there are three there ? And be clear, who are you referring to as a slaver ?
Is it someone from the 1800's or is it the modern day slavers like the banks and the insurance companies ?
Will be a great achievement for Cavan to stay down, sorry up in division 3. Hats off.
AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 02/06/2021 09:20:31
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Replying To Loughduff Lad: "Switching a name of a club due to him being a Slaver is cancel culture? You don't think a Slaver should be cancelled then? Do you agree with his actions?" Arguably yes it is cancel culture. Modern morality cannot be applied retrospectively. If it is, then you catch a broad net --- many people considered heroes in previous generations will be condemned for their attitudes to homosexuality, women's rights etc when their views, though abhorrent to us today, merely reflected the prevailing thinking of their time or may even have been "progessive" by the standards that were accepted then. For instance, most of the founding fathers of the U.S.A were slave owners in their day but were considered liberal and progressive by the standards that applied in their day.
PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1903 - 02/06/2021 10:09:18
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Replying To AfricanGael: " Replying To Loughduff Lad: "[quote=AfricanGael: "If I were you I'd be more concerned by my so called "Ulster Champions" hovering on the brink of Division 4 than I would be about scurrying around looking for slave owners from the 1800's.
Mind you, to be fair you did show Donegal how to actually play football, I will give you lot that much credit. " No concern at all. Our manager uses the league as build up, like we did last year. We'll stay up easily. I note you haven't answered the question. Quite the piece of work, aren't you? Straw man arguments, going off tangents, but are unable to answer a straight question. Pathetic"
Which question, as there are three there ? And be clear, who are you referring to as a slaver ?
Is it someone from the 1800's or is it the modern day slavers like the banks and the insurance companies ?
Will be a great achievement for Cavan to stay down, sorry up in division 3. Hats off."]John Mitchel. Numerous clubs around Ireland named after him. The question still stood before I said his name. Would you be OK with that? You again haven't answered but deflected instead, which seems par for the course with you
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2383 - 02/06/2021 10:32:27
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Replying To PoolSturgeon: "Arguably yes it is cancel culture. Modern morality cannot be applied retrospectively. If it is, then you catch a broad net --- many people considered heroes in previous generations will be condemned for their attitudes to homosexuality, women's rights etc when their views, though abhorrent to us today, merely reflected the prevailing thinking of their time or may even have been "progessive" by the standards that were accepted then. For instance, most of the founding fathers of the U.S.A were slave owners in their day but were considered liberal and progressive by the standards that applied in their day." Well of course it can. Are you saying that we can keep up monuments, names etc. of people who have been shown to be horrible people? Of course times move on and we look back with hindsight. But we can absolutely refuse to honour horrible people who did horrible things. Consign them to the history book where we can learn what they did, but let's not honour them with statues, naming etc. I'd rather honour those who have done good.
And so what if it's cancel culture? In this case there's no issue with that. It's a saying that has come into focus from people who don't want to change and adapt with a modern society, and they scream cancel culture at any time someone faces consequences. We shouldn't celebrate slavers for example. If that's cancel culture, then so be it.
I'm also hard pressed to think of anyone who has been 'cancelled' who probably didn't deserve it for something they did. Actions have consequences, and cancelling might be that.
And agreed on the US, it is hindsight with modern standards, but goes to show what a messed up country it is with those values at its heart and foundation. That shouldn't be celebrated. In my opinion, looking at their social and societal values the US is a failed state on numerous levels. But people buy that they're the land of the free for some reason when they're anything but that.
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2383 - 02/06/2021 10:43:19
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Replying To Tirchonaillabu2012: "https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-57296833
GAA needs to do more to attract Protestants, says Oisín McConville" Oisin doing what he does best, trying to be populist....I will take him seriously on this when he brings a motion to his own club about it, that is the real way to effect chance as opposed to mouthing off in the media
We need to be clear first what is required to make it more welcoming and whether those changes would make a difference as opposed to creating tension within our own association for limited or little real gain....should certainly be explored but that takes time, effort and constructive thinking not media sound bites to gain attention
ArmaghCat (Armagh) - Posts: 86 - 02/06/2021 10:47:49
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Replying To ArmaghCat: "Oisin doing what he does best, trying to be populist....I will take him seriously on this when he brings a motion to his own club about it, that is the real way to effect chance as opposed to mouthing off in the media
We need to be clear first what is required to make it more welcoming and whether those changes would make a difference as opposed to creating tension within our own association for limited or little real gain....should certainly be explored but that takes time, effort and constructive thinking not media sound bites to gain attention" Can catholics join the orange order? I wonder will any of them be bringing a motion to their local lodge to let catholics/papists join them? I wonder what Oisin's thought's are on that?
Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2747 - 02/06/2021 11:18:58
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Replying To Loughduff Lad: " Replying To AfricanGael: "[quote=Loughduff Lad: "[quote=AfricanGael: "If I were you I'd be more concerned by my so called "Ulster Champions" hovering on the brink of Division 4 than I would be about scurrying around looking for slave owners from the 1800's.
Mind you, to be fair you did show Donegal how to actually play football, I will give you lot that much credit. " No concern at all. Our manager uses the league as build up, like we did last year. We'll stay up easily. I note you haven't answered the question. Quite the piece of work, aren't you? Straw man arguments, going off tangents, but are unable to answer a straight question. Pathetic"
Which question, as there are three there ? And be clear, who are you referring to as a slaver ?
Is it someone from the 1800's or is it the modern day slavers like the banks and the insurance companies ?
Will be a great achievement for Cavan to stay down, sorry up in division 3. Hats off."]John Mitchel. Numerous clubs around Ireland named after him. The question still stood before I said his name. Would you be OK with that? You again haven't answered but deflected instead, which seems par for the course with you"]I think before trying to grab the moral high ground , you need to do your homework boy, because John Mitchel didn't own or trade in slaves so therefore he wasn't a slaver as you describe.
AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 02/06/2021 11:30:00
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Replying to AfricanGael: I think before trying to grab the moral high ground , you need to do your homework boy, because John Mitchel didn't own or trade in slaves so therefore he wasn't a slaver as you describe.
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And yet again, hasn't answered the question. Get into semantics all you like, but I know my history on him, a lot more than the obvious research you've only done in the last 5 minutes in order to reply to me. May not have owned slaves personally (although there are some unsubstantiated accounts that he may have), but that's not what I said. He supported and enabled slavery, which is part of that trade, in his time in the US and he also wished for plantation that he could fill with slaves. He was a thoroughly horrible person. Again, can you answer the question? You can dodge around the semantics of my meaning and take a very narrow view of it, but I'm asking you straight here...
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2383 - 02/06/2021 11:41:31
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Replying To Tirchonaill1: "Can catholics join the orange order? I wonder will any of them be bringing a motion to their local lodge to let catholics/papists join them? I wonder what Oisin's thought's are on that?" No harm, but I absolutely can't stand this comparison. We are way better than an absolutely sectarian Orange Order. It is part of their process that Catholics can't join. This shouldn't be a comparison. The GAA is way better than that as we have Protestants in our games, and will continue to grow this in future. Stop comparing them as we're in no way similar
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2383 - 02/06/2021 11:43:37
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Replying To Loughduff Lad: "Replying to AfricanGael: I think before trying to grab the moral high ground , you need to do your homework boy, because John Mitchel didn't own or trade in slaves so therefore he wasn't a slaver as you describe.
________________________________________________________________________________________________
And yet again, hasn't answered the question. Get into semantics all you like, but I know my history on him, a lot more than the obvious research you've only done in the last 5 minutes in order to reply to me. May not have owned slaves personally (although there are some unsubstantiated accounts that he may have), but that's not what I said. He supported and enabled slavery, which is part of that trade, in his time in the US and he also wished for plantation that he could fill with slaves. He was a thoroughly horrible person. Again, can you answer the question? You can dodge around the semantics of my meaning and take a very narrow view of it, but I'm asking you straight here..." "May not have owned slaves ". Glad to see you pulling in the horns , another one bites the AG dust .
Most of you are too easy for me to dismantle.
AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 02/06/2021 13:19:41
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Replying To AfricanGael: ""May not have owned slaves ". Glad to see you pulling in the horns , another one bites the AG dust .
Most of you are too easy for me to dismantle. " I see you chopped my sentence in half to lose the context I included. I had never said he personally owned slaves, but gave his background.
You have also, again, not answered the question.
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2383 - 02/06/2021 13:51:08
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Replying To Loughduff Lad: "Well of course it can. Are you saying that we can keep up monuments, names etc. of people who have been shown to be horrible people? Of course times move on and we look back with hindsight. But we can absolutely refuse to honour horrible people who did horrible things. Consign them to the history book where we can learn what they did, but let's not honour them with statues, naming etc. I'd rather honour those who have done good.
And so what if it's cancel culture? In this case there's no issue with that. It's a saying that has come into focus from people who don't want to change and adapt with a modern society, and they scream cancel culture at any time someone faces consequences. We shouldn't celebrate slavers for example. If that's cancel culture, then so be it.
I'm also hard pressed to think of anyone who has been 'cancelled' who probably didn't deserve it for something they did. Actions have consequences, and cancelling might be that.
And agreed on the US, it is hindsight with modern standards, but goes to show what a messed up country it is with those values at its heart and foundation. That shouldn't be celebrated. In my opinion, looking at their social and societal values the US is a failed state on numerous levels. But people buy that they're the land of the free for some reason when they're anything but that." A statue to the mass murderer Oliver Cromwell stands on a prominent position outside the House of Commons in London, another reason that I can't take that place seriously.
tireoghainabu (Tyrone) - Posts: 274 - 02/06/2021 16:14:16
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Replying To Loughduff Lad: "No harm, but I absolutely can't stand this comparison. We are way better than an absolutely sectarian Orange Order. It is part of their process that Catholics can't join. This shouldn't be a comparison. The GAA is way better than that as we have Protestants in our games, and will continue to grow this in future. Stop comparing them as we're in no way similar" Nobody is comparing them to anything....we all know the GAA is open to all, we have protestants in my club here in 6 counties, we have children born in Africa, children born in Eastern Europe we send flyers to school in variety of languages
This nonsense that GAA is a closed shop is just that and an excuse to attack the ethos of the association the same way that unionism tries to politicise the Irish language and unfortunately there are enough people to give them oxygen instead of asking simple questions like why Gaelic Games are excluded from state schools and most integrated schools , it has nothing to do with a small number of tournaments named after volunteers or the fact clubs are named after patriotic figures and all to do with the fact that many protestants in 6 counties are brought up to hate anything remotely connected to Irish games and culture
I'm all for a debate on this and examining what can be done to encourage more people from the protestant community to take part in our games but you will find education is at the nut of the matter , nothing to do with sports
ArmaghCat (Armagh) - Posts: 86 - 02/06/2021 17:29:38
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