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Replying To Galway9801: " Replying To AfricanGael: "[quote=Galway9801: "[quote=AfricanGael: "[quote=Galway9801: "[quote=AfricanGael: "They may as well name it the All-Dublin. But sure who could begrudge Dublin, wouldn't Tyrone, Kerry, Mayo etc all have bought the same colanders had they been given the money as well, I'm praying Dublin win at least 10 in a row and more hopefully, and they'd be expected to as well, hopefully by that time there will be a united Ireland, and the GAA will be put in their rightful place in a new modern forward looking country, a mere parochial sporting organisation." The GAA was a massively successful, well attended sport with high participation levels here long before you were born and it'll still be a massively successful, well attended sport with high participation levels long after you've gone to troll heaven."
AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 24/04/2021 14:06:48
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It is the 6 counties to us
suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - Posts: 1669 - 25/05/2021 20:06:36
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Replying To Cockney_Cat: "But, the 6 counties are a different country. You are part of the UK. Unlike the Republic, you are not in the EU, you have a different currency, different police force, different health care, different taxation, etc. Last week, club training for adult and youth GAA players in Northern Ireland was permitted to resume, but not in the Republic." If you view the 6 counties as a different country that's your prerogative. Nobody in Donegal would ever look on our neighbours in Derry or Tyrone as anything but Irish. Indeed they put many of us to shame on the language and music (if not Gaelic football ; ). Most Irish people north or south simply see the 6 counties as an occupied area, set up to facilitate an apartheid-style situation where nationalists had to keep the head down and stay in poverty, economically and politically. Those days are gone forever, reunification is inevitable. The analogy I use with the north is simple, if a thief steals something from you, who does that thing belong to? The rightful owner or the thief? Technically the thief owns it, but everyone knows who really owns it.. that's how the 6 counties is, plain and simple. Good luck trying to call my cousins in west Tyrone 'British.' Come back to me abs tell me how that goes..
Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 1321 - 25/05/2021 21:02:50
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Undemocratic partition plans have failed in many parts of the former Empire. Ireland is no exception.
If the Brits were clever they should have called the 6 counties "Southwest Scotland" or something but its even too late for that given that the UK is breaking up.
maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 1196 - 25/05/2021 21:38:58
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Replying To Donegal_abroad: "If you view the 6 counties as a different country that's your prerogative. Nobody in Donegal would ever look on our neighbours in Derry or Tyrone as anything but Irish. Indeed they put many of us to shame on the language and music (if not Gaelic football ; ). Most Irish people north or south simply see the 6 counties as an occupied area, set up to facilitate an apartheid-style situation where nationalists had to keep the head down and stay in poverty, economically and politically. Those days are gone forever, reunification is inevitable. The analogy I use with the north is simple, if a thief steals something from you, who does that thing belong to? The rightful owner or the thief? Technically the thief owns it, but everyone knows who really owns it.. that's how the 6 counties is, plain and simple. Good luck trying to call my cousins in west Tyrone 'British.' Come back to me abs tell me how that goes.." Fully agree with you.
cityman73 (Limerick) - Posts: 775 - 25/05/2021 21:46:38
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Replying To P.Mckenna: "Do a wee bit of research. It's not just a case of those in Northern Ireland deciding they want a United ireland - look up what is laid out in the good Friday agreement.
I would certainly support Scottish independence & they could actually thrive as an independent nation as part of the eu. They have natural resources & get up & go." What a fool. Talks about Scotland having a bit of "get up and go" . This comes from a county that had near 20% unemployment when things were going well a few years back. Now they have 40% on some kind of benefit . The North East of Ireland have just released figures stating a rise to 3.6% unemployment. Get up and go, if there was work in the bed in Louth half of them would lie on the floor.
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2012 - 25/05/2021 22:23:46
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Replying To Donegal_abroad: "If you view the 6 counties as a different country that's your prerogative. Nobody in Donegal would ever look on our neighbours in Derry or Tyrone as anything but Irish. Indeed they put many of us to shame on the language and music (if not Gaelic football ; ). Most Irish people north or south simply see the 6 counties as an occupied area, set up to facilitate an apartheid-style situation where nationalists had to keep the head down and stay in poverty, economically and politically. Those days are gone forever, reunification is inevitable. The analogy I use with the north is simple, if a thief steals something from you, who does that thing belong to? The rightful owner or the thief? Technically the thief owns it, but everyone knows who really owns it.. that's how the 6 counties is, plain and simple. Good luck trying to call my cousins in west Tyrone 'British.' Come back to me abs tell me how that goes.." "If you view the 6 counties as a different country that's your prerogative."
It's irrelevant how I or you view or like it. The fact of the matter is, which I pointed out and you chose to completely ignore. The 6 counties are part of the UK.
"Good luck trying to call my cousins in west Tyrone 'British."'
I didn't call anyone British, I never mentioned Britain.. The '6 counties' or Northern Ireland are not part of Britain, they are part of the UK.
Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2458 - 25/05/2021 23:05:38
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Replying To Cockney_Cat: ""If you view the 6 counties as a different country that's your prerogative."
It's irrelevant how I or you view or like it. The fact of the matter is, which I pointed out and you chose to completely ignore. The 6 counties are part of the UK.
"Good luck trying to call my cousins in west Tyrone 'British."'
I didn't call anyone British, I never mentioned Britain.. The '6 counties' or Northern Ireland are not part of Britain, they are part of the UK." I didn't completely ignore the 'fact.' I just choose not to embrace and reinforce the 'fact' as you do. The guise of international law created in 1921 at the threat of war to appease unionists and manufacture a 'state' might be reality... but this attitude of reinforcing division between Ireland north and south, pointing out the little nuanced differences is one I can't be bothered with. It's thankfully not the prevailing attitude in the 26 counties. You say how we view things is irrelevant; I say in the context of a vote on reunification it will very much matter how we view things and how many of us view things in a certain way.
Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 1321 - 26/05/2021 00:11:04
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Replying To Cockney_Cat: ""If you view the 6 counties as a different country that's your prerogative."
It's irrelevant how I or you view or like it. The fact of the matter is, which I pointed out and you chose to completely ignore. The 6 counties are part of the UK.
"Good luck trying to call my cousins in west Tyrone 'British."'
I didn't call anyone British, I never mentioned Britain.. The '6 counties' or Northern Ireland are not part of Britain, they are part of the UK." Also, trying to point out every little aspect which makes nationalists in the 26 counties 'different' is a pointless exercise; they know these elements of partition better than anyone. They don't need you to be a front for unionist politicians, trying to wave partition in their faces to make them feel less than. Northern nationalists are on a new footing, confident and most Irish people view them as just that, fellow Irish. They will be using the Euro and all the other little trappings of reunification you mentioned inside 10 years.
Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 1321 - 26/05/2021 00:17:06
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Replying To Cockney_Cat: ""If you view the 6 counties as a different country that's your prerogative."
It's irrelevant how I or you view or like it. The fact of the matter is, which I pointed out and you chose to completely ignore. The 6 counties are part of the UK.
"Good luck trying to call my cousins in west Tyrone 'British."'
I didn't call anyone British, I never mentioned Britain.. The '6 counties' or Northern Ireland are not part of Britain, they are part of the UK." Ireland has 32 counties,it's on every map in the world,why you have a issue with Ireland is your choice,we have the south of Ireland and the north of Ireland,all play in the all-ireland championship plus our brothers and sisters from London and New York.
cityman73 (Limerick) - Posts: 775 - 26/05/2021 00:58:24
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Usually hate getting into politics but to add into this thread:
The GAA has a different atmosphere, appeal, and following north and south of the border. I'd say, as a man who lives deep in the heart of the commuter belts of the somewhat cosmopolitan east around Dublin, that there are a great deal of "partitionists" or "free staters" around here which is very regrettable. People who see the north as a separate entity and are either dissilusioned with the notion of similarity because of the troubles, or because of ignorance. People south of the border, generally, are very poorly versed on their history. There are people I know in their autumn years who've never been in Belfast or Derry for example and know more about Spain or France than they do about Fermanagh or Antrim. Thats an inevitability when partition is taken into account, and particularly considering partition is 3/4 generations old now.
In relation to the north as a whole, I submit that constitutional change may well be an inevitability also, and possibly in the forseeable future.
- rising nationalist/ catholic population showing no signs of slowing down. The ability of nationalist parties to organise on an all-Ireland level and the inevitability of a republican lead government north and south in the near future. When you look at the polls and statistics among those from 16-49 years old the swing away from the civil war parties in the south is staggering, with a rising sense of republicanism.
- rising middle ground in NI politics which is slowly taking away the unionist vote in favour of more liberal social policies. On a broader note, the relevance of unionism has become tied to its inherent social regressivism, to its doom, as every single act of social change is damaging to their brand of ultra conservatism, and also strengthening the media circus around them. They literally cannot act on this paradox and it is to their ultimate downfall.
- the deep divisions within unionism and the criminalisation of the working class loyalist bastions in urban areas.
- quite simply, the British (English) establishment dont care anymore. They havent cared in a long time but the hardline tory brexiteers dont care AT ALL. If Labour come to power in Britain they would be arguably worse. Many labour politicians openly aspouse Irish nationalist values.
- economic and social sense, and the link with Europe via the EU.
- pardon the pun but my last reason is literally because of the decline of religiousity in the south. In the period from the 1880s until the 1916 rising, northern unionists referred to home rule in Ireland as "home rule
Is Rome rule", and they were right. All we have to do in the south is look at our history from independence all the way up to the 80s. Thankfully Catholicism doesent have any real power in this country anymore and the people are completely secular in their day to day lives. The fear of catholic domination is gone forever for our unionist brothers and sisters.
There is still much work to do to make this happen. We can make it happen. Im a man in his 20s and I want this to happen as the foremost issue in our time. The GAA has shown an active role in how it is established itself in East Belfast, and through its volunteers it has bridged gaps thought unsurpassable. I know for a fact that when the marriage equality referendum passed in the south that a group from the Shankill were in Dublin castle to celebrate. The main thing we all need to do and what our leaders need to do is sit down with our unionist neighbours and work out how this is all going to play out. The crux issue may well be the level of concessions the south may actually need to make when the time comes, and people will need to decide on whether or not they can accept them. One thing is for sure, unionists will never be in a stronger position to bargain than now, and their bargaining power will only slowly dwindle with time. Change is coming.
A nation once again.
Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 587 - 26/05/2021 05:52:28
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Replying To Cockney_Cat: ""If you view the 6 counties as a different country that's your prerogative."
It's irrelevant how I or you view or like it. The fact of the matter is, which I pointed out and you chose to completely ignore. The 6 counties are part of the UK.
"Good luck trying to call my cousins in west Tyrone 'British."'
I didn't call anyone British, I never mentioned Britain.. The '6 counties' or Northern Ireland are not part of Britain, they are part of the UK." I can assure you neither I or my children are British....their Irish passports are just as valid as yours, through their family tree they can trace a line of unbroken resistance back to the times of the 9 years war so good luck trying to tell them and their like they are British
The greatest tragedy of partition is the way that some (and I mean only some) in the 26 counties have become so partitionist and almost determined to stymie any movement towards unification ....whether its a guilt thing at the way the Nationalist community was abandoned to a sectarian statelet I don't know
So many GAA members in the 6 counties paid a very heavy price for their commitment to our National games, murdered, thier houses burned ....to call them and their fellow Gaels British is as low an action as any 'Irishman' can stoop to.....
ArmaghCat (Armagh) - Posts: 86 - 26/05/2021 07:26:19
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Replying To Young_gael: "Usually hate getting into politics but to add into this thread:
The GAA has a different atmosphere, appeal, and following north and south of the border. I'd say, as a man who lives deep in the heart of the commuter belts of the somewhat cosmopolitan east around Dublin, that there are a great deal of "partitionists" or "free staters" around here which is very regrettable. People who see the north as a separate entity and are either dissilusioned with the notion of similarity because of the troubles, or because of ignorance. People south of the border, generally, are very poorly versed on their history. There are people I know in their autumn years who've never been in Belfast or Derry for example and know more about Spain or France than they do about Fermanagh or Antrim. Thats an inevitability when partition is taken into account, and particularly considering partition is 3/4 generations old now.
In relation to the north as a whole, I submit that constitutional change may well be an inevitability also, and possibly in the forseeable future.
- rising nationalist/ catholic population showing no signs of slowing down. The ability of nationalist parties to organise on an all-Ireland level and the inevitability of a republican lead government north and south in the near future. When you look at the polls and statistics among those from 16-49 years old the swing away from the civil war parties in the south is staggering, with a rising sense of republicanism.
- rising middle ground in NI politics which is slowly taking away the unionist vote in favour of more liberal social policies. On a broader note, the relevance of unionism has become tied to its inherent social regressivism, to its doom, as every single act of social change is damaging to their brand of ultra conservatism, and also strengthening the media circus around them. They literally cannot act on this paradox and it is to their ultimate downfall.
- the deep divisions within unionism and the criminalisation of the working class loyalist bastions in urban areas.
- quite simply, the British (English) establishment dont care anymore. They havent cared in a long time but the hardline tory brexiteers dont care AT ALL. If Labour come to power in Britain they would be arguably worse. Many labour politicians openly aspouse Irish nationalist values.
- economic and social sense, and the link with Europe via the EU.
- pardon the pun but my last reason is literally because of the decline of religiousity in the south. In the period from the 1880s until the 1916 rising, northern unionists referred to home rule in Ireland as "home rule
Is Rome rule", and they were right. All we have to do in the south is look at our history from independence all the way up to the 80s. Thankfully Catholicism doesent have any real power in this country anymore and the people are completely secular in their day to day lives. The fear of catholic domination is gone forever for our unionist brothers and sisters.
There is still much work to do to make this happen. We can make it happen. Im a man in his 20s and I want this to happen as the foremost issue in our time. The GAA has shown an active role in how it is established itself in East Belfast, and through its volunteers it has bridged gaps thought unsurpassable. I know for a fact that when the marriage equality referendum passed in the south that a group from the Shankill were in Dublin castle to celebrate. The main thing we all need to do and what our leaders need to do is sit down with our unionist neighbours and work out how this is all going to play out. The crux issue may well be the level of concessions the south may actually need to make when the time comes, and people will need to decide on whether or not they can accept them. One thing is for sure, unionists will never be in a stronger position to bargain than now, and their bargaining power will only slowly dwindle with time. Change is coming.
A nation once again." Why should the Republic always have to make concessions to the Unionists, who in their heyday practised discrimination on their Nationalist fellow citizens? The only word in their vocabulary is no, and we can see the absolute disaster the DUP made of that over Brexit.
I would like to know what are they prepared to concede as part of a future settlement in this country.
MicktheMiller (Offaly) - Posts: 421 - 26/05/2021 09:48:56
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Replying To MicktheMiller: "Why should the Republic always have to make concessions to the Unionists, who in their heyday practised discrimination on their Nationalist fellow citizens? The only word in their vocabulary is no, and we can see the absolute disaster the DUP made of that over Brexit.
I would like to know what are they prepared to concede as part of a future settlement in this country." I can tell you straight away. Essentially nothing. You must remember what you describe as "this country" does not exist if you mean a 32 county entity. As far as they are concerned, you and I live in a foreign country so they won't be conceding anything ever. Like it or not, if there ever is a united Ireland the concessions will all be one way -- unless unionist support in N.I/ 6 Counties fades away over time to something like 10% - 15% , which of course is not going to happen.
PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1903 - 26/05/2021 10:39:56
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Replying To MicktheMiller: "Why should the Republic always have to make concessions to the Unionists, who in their heyday practised discrimination on their Nationalist fellow citizens? The only word in their vocabulary is no, and we can see the absolute disaster the DUP made of that over Brexit.
I would like to know what are they prepared to concede as part of a future settlement in this country." Look dont get me wrong, i agree with the principle of everything youre saying and of course youre right but the only way this thing will work is if we can forget about history and literally create a brand new state or a federation of two states. That may mean losing the tricolour, the anthem, civil service etc, or perhaps joint authority from Dublin/Belfast with special reservations for seats from the British community. The biggest obstacle to reunification may well become people in the south who might not want to bother or would not like to see us borrow money every year to integrate the six counties, and I understand their positions wholeheartedly, but if people think that the final frontier are just going to "admit defeat", and are going to live under a tricolour and sing amhrain na bhiann, they have another thing coming, you know?
The facts are:
1) If NI went independent, for arguments sake, tomorrow morning - its national debt would be 27% of its GDP. Ours in the South is 1%.
2) The GDP of NI is a completely falsified figure of 10 billion pounds which is a yearly stipend from Britain to run the place. Ours in the south is 300 billion.
3) 40% of the NI workforce are public servants. The economy cannot attract the investment which the south can and in spite of unionist plans to remove the NI protocol, if it goes they will be dragged into an economic abyss. The united Irish economy is already a complete reality.
4) the average Joe in the south has double the spending power of that in the north.
5) There are more immigrants on the island than unionists.
All nationalists have to do is wait... the ball is very firmly in the court of unionism to make moves toward the future, id love if they would just look at the figures like the ones above, see the writing on the wall, join up with the south and that would be that - be I fear they will need to be dragged kicking and screaming into any form of unification.
Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 587 - 26/05/2021 11:53:37
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When a reunified Ireland eventually becomes a reality, if Loyalists / Unionists don't like it, they don't have to stay, they can sell up and move closer to the people they feel more loyal to. It's a better deal than the Nationalists who were burnt out got. Irelands housing crisis would be solved overnight.
AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 26/05/2021 12:13:16
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Replying To Young_gael: "Usually hate getting into politics but to add into this thread:
The GAA has a different atmosphere, appeal, and following north and south of the border. I'd say, as a man who lives deep in the heart of the commuter belts of the somewhat cosmopolitan east around Dublin, that there are a great deal of "partitionists" or "free staters" around here which is very regrettable. People who see the north as a separate entity and are either dissilusioned with the notion of similarity because of the troubles, or because of ignorance. People south of the border, generally, are very poorly versed on their history. There are people I know in their autumn years who've never been in Belfast or Derry for example and know more about Spain or France than they do about Fermanagh or Antrim. Thats an inevitability when partition is taken into account, and particularly considering partition is 3/4 generations old now.
In relation to the north as a whole, I submit that constitutional change may well be an inevitability also, and possibly in the forseeable future.
- rising nationalist/ catholic population showing no signs of slowing down. The ability of nationalist parties to organise on an all-Ireland level and the inevitability of a republican lead government north and south in the near future. When you look at the polls and statistics among those from 16-49 years old the swing away from the civil war parties in the south is staggering, with a rising sense of republicanism.
- rising middle ground in NI politics which is slowly taking away the unionist vote in favour of more liberal social policies. On a broader note, the relevance of unionism has become tied to its inherent social regressivism, to its doom, as every single act of social change is damaging to their brand of ultra conservatism, and also strengthening the media circus around them. They literally cannot act on this paradox and it is to their ultimate downfall.
- the deep divisions within unionism and the criminalisation of the working class loyalist bastions in urban areas.
- quite simply, the British (English) establishment dont care anymore. They havent cared in a long time but the hardline tory brexiteers dont care AT ALL. If Labour come to power in Britain they would be arguably worse. Many labour politicians openly aspouse Irish nationalist values.
- economic and social sense, and the link with Europe via the EU.
- pardon the pun but my last reason is literally because of the decline of religiousity in the south. In the period from the 1880s until the 1916 rising, northern unionists referred to home rule in Ireland as "home rule
Is Rome rule", and they were right. All we have to do in the south is look at our history from independence all the way up to the 80s. Thankfully Catholicism doesent have any real power in this country anymore and the people are completely secular in their day to day lives. The fear of catholic domination is gone forever for our unionist brothers and sisters.
There is still much work to do to make this happen. We can make it happen. Im a man in his 20s and I want this to happen as the foremost issue in our time. The GAA has shown an active role in how it is established itself in East Belfast, and through its volunteers it has bridged gaps thought unsurpassable. I know for a fact that when the marriage equality referendum passed in the south that a group from the Shankill were in Dublin castle to celebrate. The main thing we all need to do and what our leaders need to do is sit down with our unionist neighbours and work out how this is all going to play out. The crux issue may well be the level of concessions the south may actually need to make when the time comes, and people will need to decide on whether or not they can accept them. One thing is for sure, unionists will never be in a stronger position to bargain than now, and their bargaining power will only slowly dwindle with time. Change is coming.
A nation once again." I have found that most Irish people are very selective in what history they will learn and only read what supports their already entrenched political viewpoint - unfortunately they will only read the 'nationalist' version of Irish history and use silly terms like West Brits..etc at anyone who strays from the Nationalist agenda - like Irish peoples involvement in WW1. Irish history has become a political tool to indoctrinate. Sad state of affairs.
bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4624 - 26/05/2021 12:46:49
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Replying To Young_gael: "Look dont get me wrong, i agree with the principle of everything youre saying and of course youre right but the only way this thing will work is if we can forget about history and literally create a brand new state or a federation of two states. That may mean losing the tricolour, the anthem, civil service etc, or perhaps joint authority from Dublin/Belfast with special reservations for seats from the British community. The biggest obstacle to reunification may well become people in the south who might not want to bother or would not like to see us borrow money every year to integrate the six counties, and I understand their positions wholeheartedly, but if people think that the final frontier are just going to "admit defeat", and are going to live under a tricolour and sing amhrain na bhiann, they have another thing coming, you know?
The facts are:
1) If NI went independent, for arguments sake, tomorrow morning - its national debt would be 27% of its GDP. Ours in the South is 1%.
2) The GDP of NI is a completely falsified figure of 10 billion pounds which is a yearly stipend from Britain to run the place. Ours in the south is 300 billion.
3) 40% of the NI workforce are public servants. The economy cannot attract the investment which the south can and in spite of unionist plans to remove the NI protocol, if it goes they will be dragged into an economic abyss. The united Irish economy is already a complete reality.
4) the average Joe in the south has double the spending power of that in the north.
5) There are more immigrants on the island than unionists.
All nationalists have to do is wait... the ball is very firmly in the court of unionism to make moves toward the future, id love if they would just look at the figures like the ones above, see the writing on the wall, join up with the south and that would be that - be I fear they will need to be dragged kicking and screaming into any form of unification." Very good post.
Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 912 - 26/05/2021 12:48:12
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Replying To Young_gael: "Look dont get me wrong, i agree with the principle of everything youre saying and of course youre right but the only way this thing will work is if we can forget about history and literally create a brand new state or a federation of two states. That may mean losing the tricolour, the anthem, civil service etc, or perhaps joint authority from Dublin/Belfast with special reservations for seats from the British community. The biggest obstacle to reunification may well become people in the south who might not want to bother or would not like to see us borrow money every year to integrate the six counties, and I understand their positions wholeheartedly, but if people think that the final frontier are just going to "admit defeat", and are going to live under a tricolour and sing amhrain na bhiann, they have another thing coming, you know?
The facts are:
1) If NI went independent, for arguments sake, tomorrow morning - its national debt would be 27% of its GDP. Ours in the South is 1%.
2) The GDP of NI is a completely falsified figure of 10 billion pounds which is a yearly stipend from Britain to run the place. Ours in the south is 300 billion.
3) 40% of the NI workforce are public servants. The economy cannot attract the investment which the south can and in spite of unionist plans to remove the NI protocol, if it goes they will be dragged into an economic abyss. The united Irish economy is already a complete reality.
4) the average Joe in the south has double the spending power of that in the north.
5) There are more immigrants on the island than unionists.
All nationalists have to do is wait... the ball is very firmly in the court of unionism to make moves toward the future, id love if they would just look at the figures like the ones above, see the writing on the wall, join up with the south and that would be that - be I fear they will need to be dragged kicking and screaming into any form of unification." I was under the impression that our debt to gdp was considerably higher than that, I think it was 59% in 2019,unless I'm reading it wrong (very much open to correction), and I'd assume lockdown put it higher still in 2020.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1705 - 26/05/2021 12:48:51
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Yeah I just checked it they'd, according to the Irish Times we've the highest debt per head of population in the European Union.
Future social housing projects as well as vote gaining white elephants like luases for bally go backwards will push that up further.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1705 - 26/05/2021 12:53:42
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