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Houses In Order?

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "I take your point Wicklow but that's going to be a hard ask. It's easy enough find out what the gaa give but sponsership is another enigma. I mean for example Kerry group and AIG ate transparent in what they give but J. P. McManus does nt puplicise his sponsership and to be fair that's his own business. The gaa funding can be googled. The problem with the funding was Dublin were given most of the spoils but sponsership is whatever. I mean the big sponser can divulge but there are many other small sponses and fundraising that can be done. Look the facts are to be successful a county needs lots of money. The game is amateur in name only. The sad facts are though that the counties that need it the most get the least. For example Dublin need less money than most because of little travel and hotel bills etc and most of their players live in Dublin but a county like Leitrim would have most of their players working in other counties. That is why the gaa should step up and help the poorer counties but IMO they don't really care. On sponsership etc it's hard to blame the sponser as the want exposure too so the bigger the county the better.The gaa will only care when attendences drop and TV rights drop. As long as the stadia are full the gaa don't care about the weaker counties. Now word is Larry Mccarthy is a man that might but he alone can't do it. The one county that could probably force the gaa to change is Dublin but why should they when things are going well for them. A few years ago Laois fans called a boycott on their game v Dublin in Kilkenny because they were nt allowed use their home venue. It did nt make a difference and the gaa did the same the following years with Carlow Wicklow and Westmeath. Now if the dub fans boycotted then the gaa might sit up and take note. Having said all that it's mot Dublin's problem it's other counties and the gaa s problem.. However even the gaa would find it hard to control sponsership and donations."
CiarraiMick; your points are well made and for the reasons you have outlined, most people, including me feel that the GAA should poll the money from sponsorship into a central pool and distribute the funds evenly across the counties in order to level the playing field. You are right, this is not Dublin's issue. Dublin have gotten themselves into a brilliant position and they are happy with the way things are and I don't blame Dublin. Unfortunately a lot of counties are aiming their anger at Dublin who are seen to benefit greatest from the current arrangement. The gripe I would have is with the GAA. The whole world that follows GAA knows that the GAA are primarily concerned with money and not a level playing field - fill the stadiums on finals day, job done. This is part of the reason that certain parts of the country are becoming increasingly detached from the GAA and why the gaps are widening between counties. It isn't just weaker versus strongest, there is a large number of disenfranchised counties in the middle that aren't making progress. Secondly, the GAA have tried to bury the whole professional-elite theme for a long time but now the gene is out of the bottle and everyone knows that a lot of success now is down to funds/resources which comes back to money. Maybe the way forward for a lot of small counties is to focus their investment in their local championship and stop trying to win at intercounty level which is becoming increasingly more difficult.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1910 - 08/03/2021 15:01:21    2333705

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Replying To Sssthe:  "A league based championship would massively hurt smaller teams. Because if it was implemented they would have nothing to play for as they are not going to win an all ireland and there would no longer be any provincial championships for them to win. And the vast majority wouldnt be getting any more experience as they wouldn't be able to make it into division 1."
You could have 2 divisions of 16 teams or 3 divisions of 12, 10 and 10 plus play provincials alongside to get more teams playing at that top level.

For teams like my own Antrim it's foolish to think we're going to challenge in Ulster anytime soon anyway. A move to a league style championship would make it harder for us to win an All Ireland in the short term, no doubt but if Antrim or another lower level team are ever to progress and get to a sustained higher competitive level, I think we need more games to build from.

For teams closer to the top, it should help them raise their standards quite quickly.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 08/03/2021 15:07:59    2333707

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "CiarraiMick; your points are well made and for the reasons you have outlined, most people, including me feel that the GAA should poll the money from sponsorship into a central pool and distribute the funds evenly across the counties in order to level the playing field. You are right, this is not Dublin's issue. Dublin have gotten themselves into a brilliant position and they are happy with the way things are and I don't blame Dublin. Unfortunately a lot of counties are aiming their anger at Dublin who are seen to benefit greatest from the current arrangement. The gripe I would have is with the GAA. The whole world that follows GAA knows that the GAA are primarily concerned with money and not a level playing field - fill the stadiums on finals day, job done. This is part of the reason that certain parts of the country are becoming increasingly detached from the GAA and why the gaps are widening between counties. It isn't just weaker versus strongest, there is a large number of disenfranchised counties in the middle that aren't making progress. Secondly, the GAA have tried to bury the whole professional-elite theme for a long time but now the gene is out of the bottle and everyone knows that a lot of success now is down to funds/resources which comes back to money. Maybe the way forward for a lot of small counties is to focus their investment in their local championship and stop trying to win at intercounty level which is becoming increasingly more difficult."
Yes Wicklow very valid points. On the sponsership though I feel sponser might not give as much if the money had to be pooled but maybe if the big counties had to put a percentage into a pool like 10% or so it might work. It would be great to see the weaker counties not having to worry about money and it would also mean their best players would be able to play without being out of pocket. Otherwise as you say Wicklow some counties would be better off looking after their club level competitions.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3676 - 08/03/2021 15:19:54    2333709

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Yes Wicklow very valid points. On the sponsership though I feel sponser might not give as much if the money had to be pooled but maybe if the big counties had to put a percentage into a pool like 10% or so it might work. It would be great to see the weaker counties not having to worry about money and it would also mean their best players would be able to play without being out of pocket. Otherwise as you say Wicklow some counties would be better off looking after their club level competitions."
Yes, given a percentage might be a compromise. I also think that the GAA could look at given funding to counties based upon their ranking at the end of the year. So basically the team that finishes 31st/32nd in the rankings would get the biggest amount of money and the GAA could monitor to ensure that it is invested in the proper way. As part of this scheme, the higher a county is ranked, the less funding they would get for this purpose. This might be a way of levelling the playing field without dealing with issue of private funding in the form of sponsorship deals.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1910 - 08/03/2021 16:34:15    2333718

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Replying To galwayford:  "Speaking of dominance, Glasgow Rangers have just ended 9 years of Celtic rule in the SPL. What are the odds something similar could happen here, with say Galway or Kerry ending Dublin's."
They might not have done it if Celtic had been allowed play all their games at "home" like the poor Dubs, or rather squat in HQ.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 08/03/2021 18:22:07    2333721

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "Yes, given a percentage might be a compromise. I also think that the GAA could look at given funding to counties based upon their ranking at the end of the year. So basically the team that finishes 31st/32nd in the rankings would get the biggest amount of money and the GAA could monitor to ensure that it is invested in the proper way. As part of this scheme, the higher a county is ranked, the less funding they would get for this purpose. This might be a way of levelling the playing field without dealing with issue of private funding in the form of sponsorship deals."
That would be wishful thinking Wicklow but true a nice idea.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3676 - 08/03/2021 18:48:39    2333723

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Replying To AfricanGael:  "They might not have done it if Celtic had been allowed play all their games at "home" like the poor Dubs, or rather squat in HQ."
Hi, kiddo ,you sound like you need to squat.
You're full of it.

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 08/03/2021 18:49:27    2333724

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Replying To arock:  "I am advocating anything at all. Just pounting out no one can agree what the problem is. If you dont know what is causing the problem you wont solve. The point I was also making RTE ran a program on radio, complete with online data to offer some suggestions. I wouldnt discuss them here because no one heard tge program. Similarly arguments on funding etc breakdown because tgere is a complete lack of understanding where, how and for who that funding is. Btw there is more lots more to the GAA than Gaelic Football and therein also lies the greatest stunbling blocks to solutions. If you stick to county boundaries, if you stick to the bizarre notion that 32 counties are equal, you are wasting everyones time. Which is why most dubs shrug their shoulders and get on with it. As for NFL I am not going there bit illustrates my point perfectly and your response illustrates yours with a grande canyon between the two, not a hope resolving this one. The topic has just become an echo chamber now. If anyone is serious about it they should atleast inform themselves. But as per congress no one is listening, no one cares."
Dublin's road to success. - (Football only)

Senior: 59 - 1891, '92, '94, '96, '97, '98, '99, 1901, '02, '04, '06, '07, '08, '20, '21, '22, '23, '24, '32, '33, '34, '41, '42, '55, '58, '59, '62, '63, '65, '74, '75, '76, '77, '78, '79, '83, '84, '85, '89, '92, '93, '94, '95, 2002, '05, '06, '07, '08, '09, '11, '12, '13, '14, '15, 16, '17, '18, '19, '20

Under 21: 16 - 1974, '75, '80, '84, 2002, '03, '05, '09, '10, '12, '14, '15, '16, '17, '19 '20

Minor: 33 - 1930, '33, '34, '45, '46, '48, '49, '54, '55, '56, '58, '59, '61, '68, '70, '71, '76, '78, '79, '81, '82, '84, '86, '88, '94, '99, 2001, '03, '09, '11, '12, '14, '17

Junior: 20 - 1908, '14, '16, '22, '26, '30, '39, '48, '50, '51, '54, '55, '59, '60, '71, '83, '85, '87, '94, 2008
All Stars: 139

Its only when you look at the stats, the realization is that Dublin took almost complete ownership of Leinster football from the mid 70's and so that in my opinion is undoubtedly the source and origin of the problem, so love them or loath them they have to be admired. For the past few years leinster finals fell flat almost as if it was uncontested, but it was contested its just that the Dubs were genuinely at a different level. I think its fair to say 2021 will be Dublin's year again and so be it, in the meantime there's two changes that croke park can make to level the playing field a small bit, one would be to arrange for the Dub's to play a fair share of their games out of Croke Park, the second would be to cut their funding to a fair level, sort of pro rata with the other counties.
The way I see it is, the top 12 counties are at a level of their own, the bottom 12 are sort of rock bottom and in the middle we have the floating 8 that can go either way.

(1) 12 teams. 8 div. 1 + 4 div 2. (2) 8 teams . 4 div. 2 + 4 div.3
(3). (12) teams. 8 div.4 + 4 div.3
A fair mix for a NFL on a trial basis, or a league championship

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2907 - 08/03/2021 22:54:15    2333745

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Replying To AfricanGael:  "They might not have done it if Celtic had been allowed play all their games at "home" like the poor Dubs, or rather squat in HQ."
Ah shur the craturs can't afford to build their own adequate stadium

horridweather (Leitrim) - Posts: 7 - 09/03/2021 08:22:26    2333747

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "That would be wishful thinking Wicklow but true a nice idea."
I agree; it will never happen, so the status quo will go on. It is going to be interesting in the next decade to see if the gaps between the various levels continues to widen. I don't see the Tailteann cup being a success as it is just a rehash of the various versions of previous competitions - B championship, Tommy Murphy cup. I know from my own experience that Wicklow winning the Tommy Murphy cup doesn't rate in comparison to the other achievements under Mick O'Dwyer especially our run to the last 12 of the All Ireland championship in 2009. Hurling is an equally bad state than football at this moment in time in terms of the gaps between the various levels; how many teams have made the breakthrough into the elite level of the All Ireland championship, probably Laois and Carlow but they were unable to stay there. Equally, there is no relegation from the elite level in hurling unless you are one of the weaker Leinster teams namely Carlow or Laois, no relegation in Munster!!!

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1910 - 09/03/2021 09:23:12    2333748

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "I agree; it will never happen, so the status quo will go on. It is going to be interesting in the next decade to see if the gaps between the various levels continues to widen. I don't see the Tailteann cup being a success as it is just a rehash of the various versions of previous competitions - B championship, Tommy Murphy cup. I know from my own experience that Wicklow winning the Tommy Murphy cup doesn't rate in comparison to the other achievements under Mick O'Dwyer especially our run to the last 12 of the All Ireland championship in 2009. Hurling is an equally bad state than football at this moment in time in terms of the gaps between the various levels; how many teams have made the breakthrough into the elite level of the All Ireland championship, probably Laois and Carlow but they were unable to stay there. Equally, there is no relegation from the elite level in hurling unless you are one of the weaker Leinster teams namely Carlow or Laois, no relegation in Munster!!!"
Again you are correct Wicklow. Relegation is for the weak not the strong. Again the gaa show pure bias in the hurling in that scenario.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3676 - 09/03/2021 11:53:19    2333755

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "I agree; it will never happen, so the status quo will go on. It is going to be interesting in the next decade to see if the gaps between the various levels continues to widen. I don't see the Tailteann cup being a success as it is just a rehash of the various versions of previous competitions - B championship, Tommy Murphy cup. I know from my own experience that Wicklow winning the Tommy Murphy cup doesn't rate in comparison to the other achievements under Mick O'Dwyer especially our run to the last 12 of the All Ireland championship in 2009. Hurling is an equally bad state than football at this moment in time in terms of the gaps between the various levels; how many teams have made the breakthrough into the elite level of the All Ireland championship, probably Laois and Carlow but they were unable to stay there. Equally, there is no relegation from the elite level in hurling unless you are one of the weaker Leinster teams namely Carlow or Laois, no relegation in Munster!!!"
Since 2018, when the Leinster Hurling Championship became a five-team round-robin group, if a non-Munster team were to win the Joe McDonagh Cup, the bottom team in the Leinster championship would be relegated to the following year's Joe McDonagh Cup and would be replaced in the following year's Leinster championship by the Joe McDonagh Cup winners. Offaly finished bottom in 2018, replaced by Carlow (JMC winners); who were relegated in 2019; replaced by Laios (JMC winners). Obviously, due to Covid things weren't the same in 2020 and won't be in 2021. But when things get back to normal, under the current Leinster Championship round-robin format, if Kilkenny were to finish bottom they would be relegated to the Joe McDonagh Cup

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2466 - 09/03/2021 23:48:13    2333791

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "Since 2018, when the Leinster Hurling Championship became a five-team round-robin group, if a non-Munster team were to win the Joe McDonagh Cup, the bottom team in the Leinster championship would be relegated to the following year's Joe McDonagh Cup and would be replaced in the following year's Leinster championship by the Joe McDonagh Cup winners. Offaly finished bottom in 2018, replaced by Carlow (JMC winners); who were relegated in 2019; replaced by Laios (JMC winners). Obviously, due to Covid things weren't the same in 2020 and won't be in 2021. But when things get back to normal, under the current Leinster Championship round-robin format, if Kilkenny were to finish bottom they would be relegated to the Joe McDonagh Cup"
The relegation system is a bit wonky alright in the hurling championship.

It's very protective of the Munster counties. It would certainly be a fairer competition to just have 2 groups of 6 organised nationally, won't be an option for a long time with the Munster championship considered a sacred cow.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 10/03/2021 18:10:50    2333830

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Munster is the sacred Cow though of hurling.
Tipp and Cork both traditional big 3 teams. More recently Limerick coming to the fore and Waterford too along with Clare always dangerous.
Kilkenny are the only real constant in Leinster with Galway being brought in to make some sort of a competition for them but one All Ireland in 30 years is relatively poor return. Wexford,and Offaly haven't contested one for over 20 years. Dublin for decades.

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 10/03/2021 20:38:42    2333843

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Replying To Whammo86:  "The relegation system is a bit wonky alright in the hurling championship.

It's very protective of the Munster counties. It would certainly be a fairer competition to just have 2 groups of 6 organised nationally, won't be an option for a long time with the Munster championship considered a sacred cow."
Well you could run the AI hurling Championship separate to the Munster & Leinster championships.
I wouldn't be in favour of demoting one of the Munster 5 to be replaced by a weaker team.....it would take from the spectacle that is and always has been the Munster Hurling championship.

ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 10/03/2021 20:53:44    2333847

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Replying To ONdeDITCH:  "Well you could run the AI hurling Championship separate to the Munster & Leinster championships.
I wouldn't be in favour of demoting one of the Munster 5 to be replaced by a weaker team.....it would take from the spectacle that is and always has been the Munster Hurling championship."
Yeah I think it'd be fine to run them separately and then just seed the group stages based on Provincial championship performances.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 10/03/2021 21:58:18    2333853

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Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "Thats not true. Give 100 million to the weakest county in Ireland and within a few years they would be competing at the latter stages of the All Ireland championship with every chance of winning it. Jack Walker's millions are the reason why Blackburn won the Premiership. With 100 million you could train a Leitrim team to win the McCarthy Cup not mind Sam Maguire! As snother poster put it, money doesn't just talk, it screams."
And please tell us where would they get the players with the talent to achieve this?

dubarra (Wicklow) - Posts: 541 - 12/03/2021 08:42:47    2333947

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Replying To AfricanGael:  "That's ridicules, of course €100,000,000 would win an All-Ireland for Leitrim, not in the first year but for sure within a decade. This is Gaelic football we are talking about, not turning a burger flipper into a rocket scientist."
So tell us how this would happen within 10 years? I can't wait to hear how a county with such a small population is going to create super stars with money and very little available talent.

dubarra (Wicklow) - Posts: 541 - 12/03/2021 09:06:43    2333949

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Replying To dubarra:  "So tell us how this would happen within 10 years? I can't wait to hear how a county with such a small population is going to create super stars with money and very little available talent."
Well the first mistake you're making is believing you need "Super Stars" to win an All-Ireland or indeed any team sport for that matter. Is that really what you believe? And if so, who are the super stars in the Dublin team ?

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 12/03/2021 11:16:01    2333963

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Replying To dubarra:  "So tell us how this would happen within 10 years? I can't wait to hear how a county with such a small population is going to create super stars with money and very little available talent."
Well the first mistake you're making is believing you need "Super Stars" to win an All-Ireland or indeed any team sport for that matter. Is that really what you believe? And if so, who are the super stars in the Dublin team ?

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 12/03/2021 11:43:39    2333967

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