HoganStand GAA Football and Hurling

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Proposed Hurling Rule Changes

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Replying To Canuck: "The cheating is a problem for sure and can be dealt with but you can't not deal with deliberate dragging down. Maybe Brian Lohan is the elephant in the room already putting pressure on the refs and already planning how to deal with the rule to his advantage. The old nod nod wink wink stuff that is in our genes. A handy auld rule if it is my guy is pulled down but I can always fall back to claiming faking if it is my guy doing the pulling down. Maybe these trainers and managers would be better off teaching their players how to defend better one on one and encourage them to behave ethically. I have said it before in hockey the majority of players hate the fakers and will lay into them. Even team members don't like fakers. It is just a culture thing that I believe gaelic players are capable of." If you read my earlier post, I said it should be dealt with too. StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 03/03/2021 15:56:18 2333436 Link
Name the examples of simulation in hurling in the 2020 championship. Simple question. Three examples needed or earlier post re simulation can be disregarded Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1489 - 03/03/2021 17:44:37 2333446 Link
Name the examples of simulation in hurling in the 2020 championship. Simple question. Three examples needed or earlier post re simulation can be disregarded Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1489 - 03/03/2021 17:45:14 2333447 Link
Replying To StoreysTash: "If you read my earlier post, I said it should be dealt with too." Yes you did. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 03/03/2021 18:11:35 2333450 Link
Replying To Claretandblue: "What relevance are players' opinions? Majority of them don't know the rules. Players will play whatever the rules. Cynicism reached a new level last year, this is a welcome addition." A bit harsh. Most of them have a fair grasp of the rules. They wouldn't keep their place if they didn't. lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 475 - 03/03/2021 18:30:35 2333455 Link
Replying To Claretandblue: "Name the examples of simulation in hurling in the 2020 championship. Simple question. Three examples needed or earlier post re simulation can be disregarded" I will name the one's involving my team reluctantly because of not wanting to take anything from Limerick's win and their superiority in the All-Ireland. Dessie Hutchison and Stephen Bennett in that final. There were quiet a few more, two right away I can recall but will leave that to others. You might ask do we know they would have scored. We don't need to. Only that the chances were taken away by fouling. Also Declan Hannon should have been sent off for jabbing Gleeson with the hurley. An accident. There was a hand on the end of the stick and you should be in control of it. Gleeson himself avoided censorship before but that is a another story. After the All-Ireland if you check my post I was loud in my acclimation of Limerick and never going to get involved in sour grapes. (the same went for the rest of my county) They only difference any of these incident would have done is changed the final score which was inflated anyway because of Waterford need to go for goals. On another day these pull downs may have a significant influence on a result. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 03/03/2021 18:38:34 2333456 Link
Replying To Viking66: "Another annoying one is the attacker catching the defenders hurl under is arm and throwing himself to the ground. Maybe lengthy retrospective bans for lads caught cheating on tv as there are in place for dangerous play and helmet infringements might provide a deterrent?" I think a lot of you are thinking about the televised games that accounts for a fraction of hurling matches. How about all the hundreds of marches that take place every day (normally). The best I've ever seen was in an underage game where a now county player was rugby tackled at least three times when he was going past the "last man". Most times outside the 20mtr line. I think there should have been a few straight reds in this case. As bloddyban mentioned the standard of referring is often very poor. And as you go down the competitions it gets progressively worse. This in my opinion will add to players frustration when there is an obvious bad ref. He now has a big opportunity to really mess things up. Imagine an intermediate team down 2 points with 10min to go. Ref that can't keep up with the game "sees" a player bring cynically fouled inside the 20mtr line. Penalty awarded and FB sent to the bin. What should have been a fantastic finish to a game is destroyed by a smart forward. Seeking_silver (Limerick) - Posts: 411 - 03/03/2021 20:44:15 2333465 Link
Declan Hannon alleged jab with Hurley totally irrelevant to argument. Personally I can't recall Bennett or Hutchinson throwing diving to win frees. That's what simulation is. Different to players trying to win frees. That's relevant Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1489 - 03/03/2021 22:41:07 2333470 Link
You can't give a straight red for a pull down. Fact. Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1489 - 03/03/2021 22:42:32 2333471 Link
Replying To Seeking_silver: "I think a lot of you are thinking about the televised games that accounts for a fraction of hurling matches. How about all the hundreds of marches that take place every day (normally). The best I've ever seen was in an underage game where a now county player was rugby tackled at least three times when he was going past the "last man". Most times outside the 20mtr line. I think there should have been a few straight reds in this case. As bloddyban mentioned the standard of referring is often very poor. And as you go down the competitions it gets progressively worse. This in my opinion will add to players frustration when there is an obvious bad ref. He now has a big opportunity to really mess things up. Imagine an intermediate team down 2 points with 10min to go. Ref that can't keep up with the game "sees" a player bring cynically fouled inside the 20mtr line. Penalty awarded and FB sent to the bin. What should have been a fantastic finish to a game is destroyed by a smart forward." All of what you say is true but maybe if the possibility of a long ban acts as a deterrent it will be worth it. Most club 1st team games around here are videoed/recorded especially at senior and intermediate and many second string games also. And there are video cameraphones out at underage level 2 as parents record their children. Do the clubs/supporters not do this in Limerick? Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11847 - 04/03/2021 07:02:45 2333476 Link
Replying To Claretandblue: "Name the examples of simulation in hurling in the 2020 championship. Simple question. Three examples needed or earlier post re simulation can be disregarded" Are you seriously suggesting that players diving for frees, catching the opponents hurl and swinging around or pulling them to the ground, are not problems in the game? StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 04/03/2021 09:16:13 2333483 Link
Replying To Canuck: "So because someone dives we should not have a new rule for pulling down someone about to score a goal. Think about that ? Why do we make things so difficult ? How about if any of the officials see that it was a dive it is dealt with by sending the diver off and giving a free the other way that will probably put over the bar. How about if you don't want to stop the game and review, all penalties are reviewed afterwards and if a dive was seen deal with the player. "It is not as simple as that." Yes it is and we need to stop trying figure how things won't work. A good rule is a one that will be required seldom or hopefully never. It is the deterrent . I grew up when the goalie got run over nearly in every game. How often is goalie interfered with now because of the consequences. Mistakes will happen. Correct them and move on. As regards reffing. It as totally ridiculous to have one man in the fastest sport in the world, on the largest playing surface expecting to do and see everything. There are six other officials out there. Train them or remove some of them and use a second referee. I have no time for these people who don't want change to match the changes in the games. The games as played today are only a cousin of when they started and continue to evolve." You make a lot of sense. The problem here is that there is cynical play in hurling (as well as football). I don't think that the rule in football is perfect - there are still some areas that need tidying up and it still doesn't deter the cynical fowling in the last 5 minutes when the game is in the melting pot. I think that addressing the issue where a definite goal-scoring opportunity is averted is a positive thing but I'm not sure that this version of a rule will necessarily succeed. The problem with refereeing is that the standard and resources will vary significantly from Senior intercounty to Junior B club! but if we look at the senior intercounty the referee will have two umpires looking straight at the play from less than 20m away. player goes down he can easily consult with umpires to ascertain what happened and make the appropriate decision based on all the information he has. As an aside i would categorize diving as cynical play too and the punishment should be the same as the others for that. I have long been a fan of the idea that there should be no sin bin as a punishment of cynical fouls in football. simple alternate deterrant. all cynical fouls no matter where they occur are punished by a free on the 21. in the last 5 minutes of normal time plus any injury time the punishment is a penalty. indaknownow (Offaly) - Posts: 112 - 04/03/2021 10:04:00 2333490 Link
I also think re the referee, why don't we help this hardship loving man out? Either with a 2nd referee, or if a referee wants to be sure he can ask a 4th official for a video replay, which gives him the option of up to sending off a cheating player as well? It'd be a long way ahead of like in the Wexford Clare game last year where the referee barely stopped short of asking the 2 managers what he should do, after spending 3-4 minutes asking linesmen/umpires/etc what he should do. StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 04/03/2021 10:13:04 2333493 Link
A second referee? There's a shortage of decent referees at inter county level. Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1489 - 04/03/2021 11:37:42 2333503 Link
Replying To Claretandblue: "In other sports do players contribute to the rule making process. You think Richie McCaw was involved in rule making for World Rugby or Ronaldo helping FIFA to make rules. Not a chance. Players play. When they retire if they want to referee then great, or coach." I would say every profesional sport in America has players on boards that review all aspects of the game. Rory McIlroy was just elected head of the Players Advisory Council. Of course players should have say in the games they play. All i keep reading is all the cheating and cynical play there are rules for everything. An example was given about the goalie getting run over and how it has stopped because of the consequences. The consequences are free outs. Not a big deterrent if you get away with it and your team gets a goal. My point is if the rules are enforced players will adapt just like running over the goalie. Any player that is constantly fouling won't be on the field too long. Also with the distance players can score frees today any foul withim 100m of he goal will probably result in a score. gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 318 - 04/03/2021 12:29:26 2333507 Link
Disagree that in other sports that players have a say in rule making. It doesn't simply happen in majority of contact sports. Players should know the rules, they often don't. Different issue. Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1489 - 04/03/2021 15:14:38 2333514 Link
Replying To Claretandblue: "Disagree that in other sports that players have a say in rule making. It doesn't simply happen in majority of contact sports. Players should know the rules, they often don't. Different issue." You said players opinions are irrelevant and players don't know the rules. You are the one that brought both issues to the table. You can disagree all you want it is a fact most proffessional sports in America have boards where players sit. These boards discuss everything that has to do with the game. They also have very strong unions that can almost block anything they want. There have been numerous times when Players have gone on strike and a whole or part of a season has been canceled. I'am not saying players should make the rules but they should have a voice in the decision making. They are the ones being affected by the rules not you and me. gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 318 - 04/03/2021 17:16:42 2333528 Link
We haven't had players involved in rule making for 140 years and things have been more than fine. American sports like American Football and Baseball hardly comparable. Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1489 - 04/03/2021 23:49:10 2333548 Link
Replying To gatha: "You said players opinions are irrelevant and players don't know the rules. You are the one that brought both issues to the table. You can disagree all you want it is a fact most proffessional sports in America have boards where players sit. These boards discuss everything that has to do with the game. They also have very strong unions that can almost block anything they want. There have been numerous times when Players have gone on strike and a whole or part of a season has been canceled. I'am not saying players should make the rules but they should have a voice in the decision making. They are the ones being affected by the rules not you and me." I hear what you are saying gatha and I would be the first to say players don't get enough recognition. However when it comes to rules the players are the last ones I give any influence to. The majority of players the only rules they would like is no rules. Don't they contest every decision the ref makes against them. In the NHL the board of governors and general managers make the rules. The players have lots of power but not this power. In our case look at the list of ex-players want change now. I would be sure not one of them would want it when they were playing. Actually there were some of them who would like to take your head off if they could get away with it. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 05/03/2021 00:22:13 2333549 Link
Replying To Claretandblue: "We haven't had players involved in rule making for 140 years and things have been more than fine. American sports like American Football and Baseball hardly comparable." The last 140 years are fine for somethings but not other things. gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 318 - 05/03/2021 12:11:39 2333571 Link