National Forum

"Level The Playing Field."

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "I'm not much of a follower of American football, but I think the draft picks is one of it's pluses. Without it, the richer teams/franchises would buy up the best players, and a handful of teams would dominate the competition, like the Premier League in England."
I don't know lots on NFL, don't love the game at all really.

I like basketball and the tanking that goes on in it towards the end of the season is pretty horrible to be honest. They've tried to mitigate it somewhat in recent years with a lottery for the draft pick so that the worst record doesn't get precisely the first draft pick but still teams are certainly incentivised to lose once they are out of playoff contention.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3633 - 12/05/2021 13:49:57    2341264

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Replying To supersub15:  "No one has convinced me that my suggestion is ridiculous or unworkable, no one."
Until now perhaps. While I admire your endeavors, there is one glaringly obvious flaw in what you propose and it's this, it would lead to low scoring and probably unwatchable games in the run up to it's introduction, for example why would Dublin beat a team by 15 points instead of 5 when they know already that the more they win by the more they will be handicapped when the system was introduced and on the other hand why would one of Dublin's hopeful challengers want to be beaten by 4 points rather than 10 points when they know the latter would benefit them more in the future.

So we would have possibly 3 seasons of terrible games and on top of that then discover that the handicap is totally inaccurate anyway.

It's a practice that has happened on more than one occasion in horse racing when you hear of a horse "being held back" to reduce the handicap and when the time is right , bang, it wins a race at higher odds than it should have been.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1946 - 12/05/2021 14:57:50    2341284

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "I'm not much of a follower of American football, but I think the draft picks is one of it's pluses. Without it, the richer teams/franchises would buy up the best players, and a handful of teams would dominate the competition, like the Premier League in England."
That only works because the NFL is a closed shop

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3341 - 12/05/2021 15:42:44    2341296

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Replying To Viking66:  "That only works because the NFL is a closed shop"
Exactly. It is also why a salary cap in say the English Premier League would not work. The players would leave for clubs paying more money in other leagues, Spain, Italy, Germany, China etc.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1508 - 12/05/2021 15:56:53    2341299

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Replying To AfricanGael:  "Until now perhaps. While I admire your endeavors, there is one glaringly obvious flaw in what you propose and it's this, it would lead to low scoring and probably unwatchable games in the run up to it's introduction, for example why would Dublin beat a team by 15 points instead of 5 when they know already that the more they win by the more they will be handicapped when the system was introduced and on the other hand why would one of Dublin's hopeful challengers want to be beaten by 4 points rather than 10 points when they know the latter would benefit them more in the future.

So we would have possibly 3 seasons of terrible games and on top of that then discover that the handicap is totally inaccurate anyway.

It's a practice that has happened on more than one occasion in horse racing when you hear of a horse "being held back" to reduce the handicap and when the time is right , bang, it wins a race at higher odds than it should have been.
"
No matter what changes take place under the umbrella of the gaa they will never be without its flaws and criticisms, so this would be no different, the glaringly obvious flaw that you see could be offset or avoided in how it is set up, yes I could see teething problems popping up in the first year, so fine tuning may be necessary and sobeit.
Like I said previously I would base it on our golfing handicap system with a tweek here and there if necessary, No one has to know anything about the handicaps until they are being made available to all teams simultaneously, their origin would be based on the previous 1, 2, or 3 previous nfl and / or championship performances, all in retrospect.
I wouldn't see this proposal as a means of rewarding a team because its inability to perform, compete, or achieve, similarly, would I see it as a way of penalising a team for being successful or over achieving, rather I would see it as a way to bridging the gap or levelling the playing field, it could be introduced initially and provisionally for a two or three year period.

I have said it before I would not compare the happenings or changes within the gaa to that of any other sport either here or abroad, not comparable full stop.

I pleasantly notice how you analyzed and threw out your concerns, flaws etc, and pointed out its possible failings, nothing wrong with that, I would call that constructive criticism. Compare that to some of our analytical posters here who kicked it into touch before they actually read the proposal. Aka instant dismissal.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2470 - 12/05/2021 18:03:47    2341320

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Replying To AfricanGael:  "Until now perhaps. While I admire your endeavors, there is one glaringly obvious flaw in what you propose and it's this, it would lead to low scoring and probably unwatchable games in the run up to it's introduction, for example why would Dublin beat a team by 15 points instead of 5 when they know already that the more they win by the more they will be handicapped when the system was introduced and on the other hand why would one of Dublin's hopeful challengers want to be beaten by 4 points rather than 10 points when they know the latter would benefit them more in the future.

So we would have possibly 3 seasons of terrible games and on top of that then discover that the handicap is totally inaccurate anyway.

It's a practice that has happened on more than one occasion in horse racing when you hear of a horse "being held back" to reduce the handicap and when the time is right , bang, it wins a race at higher odds than it should have been.
"
Probably would happen actually.
Twould be gas watching all these "win at all costs" eejits all of a sudden organising it so their teams lose by as much as possible lol.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 951 - 12/05/2021 19:12:44    2341330

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Replying To supersub15:  "
Replying To AfricanGael:  "Until now perhaps. While I admire your endeavors, there is one glaringly obvious flaw in what you propose and it's this, it would lead to low scoring and probably unwatchable games in the run up to it's introduction, for example why would Dublin beat a team by 15 points instead of 5 when they know already that the more they win by the more they will be handicapped when the system was introduced and on the other hand why would one of Dublin's hopeful challengers want to be beaten by 4 points rather than 10 points when they know the latter would benefit them more in the future.

So we would have possibly 3 seasons of terrible games and on top of that then discover that the handicap is totally inaccurate anyway.

It's a practice that has happened on more than one occasion in horse racing when you hear of a horse "being held back" to reduce the handicap and when the time is right , bang, it wins a race at higher odds than it should have been.
"
No matter what changes take place under the umbrella of the gaa they will never be without its flaws and criticisms, so this would be no different, the glaringly obvious flaw that you see could be offset or avoided in how it is set up, yes I could see teething problems popping up in the first year, so fine tuning may be necessary and sobeit.
Like I said previously I would base it on our golfing handicap system with a tweek here and there if necessary, No one has to know anything about the handicaps until they are being made available to all teams simultaneously, their origin would be based on the previous 1, 2, or 3 previous nfl and / or championship performances, all in retrospect.
I wouldn't see this proposal as a means of rewarding a team because its inability to perform, compete, or achieve, similarly, would I see it as a way of penalising a team for being successful or over achieving, rather I would see it as a way to bridging the gap or levelling the playing field, it could be introduced initially and provisionally for a two or three year period.

I have said it before I would not compare the happenings or changes within the gaa to that of any other sport either here or abroad, not comparable full stop.

I pleasantly notice how you analyzed and threw out your concerns, flaws etc, and pointed out its possible failings, nothing wrong with that, I would call that constructive criticism. Compare that to some of our analytical posters here who kicked it into touch before they actually read the proposal. Aka instant dismissal."
The Championship is the competition to determine the champion team, or best team, that year. Not the best team taking in consideration playing numbers, numbers of coaches, whose clubs volunteers raise more or less money, who has better or worse county boards or management teams, who spends more or less on intercounty squads, in other words who has been underperforming or over performing for a myriad of different possible reasons over the last 3 years in whatever competition. It shouldn't be any more complicated than that. Different counties have over the years had great teams come along and some counties have historically had more of these great teams than others in both codes. And especially in the days of straight knockout dark horses occasionally came through and won it out! That's the essence and magic of it. If a terrible team won it purely because some lads sitting around a table or computer in Croke Park decided they should get a 30 point head start because they were so bad it would make winning it totally meaningless. Even to the team that won it.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3341 - 12/05/2021 20:07:38    2341339

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Replying To supersub15:  "
Replying To AfricanGael:  "Until now perhaps. While I admire your endeavors, there is one glaringly obvious flaw in what you propose and it's this, it would lead to low scoring and probably unwatchable games in the run up to it's introduction, for example why would Dublin beat a team by 15 points instead of 5 when they know already that the more they win by the more they will be handicapped when the system was introduced and on the other hand why would one of Dublin's hopeful challengers want to be beaten by 4 points rather than 10 points when they know the latter would benefit them more in the future.

So we would have possibly 3 seasons of terrible games and on top of that then discover that the handicap is totally inaccurate anyway.

It's a practice that has happened on more than one occasion in horse racing when you hear of a horse "being held back" to reduce the handicap and when the time is right , bang, it wins a race at higher odds than it should have been.
"
No matter what changes take place under the umbrella of the gaa they will never be without its flaws and criticisms, so this would be no different, the glaringly obvious flaw that you see could be offset or avoided in how it is set up, yes I could see teething problems popping up in the first year, so fine tuning may be necessary and sobeit.
Like I said previously I would base it on our golfing handicap system with a tweek here and there if necessary, No one has to know anything about the handicaps until they are being made available to all teams simultaneously, their origin would be based on the previous 1, 2, or 3 previous nfl and / or championship performances, all in retrospect.
I wouldn't see this proposal as a means of rewarding a team because its inability to perform, compete, or achieve, similarly, would I see it as a way of penalising a team for being successful or over achieving, rather I would see it as a way to bridging the gap or levelling the playing field, it could be introduced initially and provisionally for a two or three year period.

I have said it before I would not compare the happenings or changes within the gaa to that of any other sport either here or abroad, not comparable full stop.

I pleasantly notice how you analyzed and threw out your concerns, flaws etc, and pointed out its possible failings, nothing wrong with that, I would call that constructive criticism. Compare that to some of our analytical posters here who kicked it into touch before they actually read the proposal. Aka instant dismissal."
Oh no I would never do that, I admire people with ideas, I don't buy into the idea that because something hasn't been done before that it shouldn't be tried, I just feel it's open to manipulation that's all.

The only way I feel something like that "may" work is if the handicap could be rapidly and algorithmically amended to take into account things like a team in transition, a team missing players through injury or suspension etc.

For example lets say it's All-Ireland final day Dublin v Kerry, in normal circumstances we'll imagine the handicap to be Kerry (+3), would that be fair on Dublin if they were missing Brian Fenton through injury or another one or two key players or would it be enough of a handicap if Kerry were missing David Clifford, in other words it's not something that should be set in stone.

I think if it were ever to happen, it should only happen or be trialed in the All-Ireland series, but getting counties to agree on what the fair handicap should be would be another days work.

Thee GAA have many more things they could and should do to improve the game of football and the competitiveness of the Championship, number one on my list anyway is the total outlawing of more than two consecutive hand passes, punished by a minimum of a 45 to the opposing team regardless of whether the infringement took place outside that or not, or from the 20 if the infringement took place on any part of the field within the 45.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1946 - 12/05/2021 21:05:15    2341352

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Replying To Viking66:  "
Replying To supersub15:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "Until now perhaps. While I admire your endeavors, there is one glaringly obvious flaw in what you propose and it's this, it would lead to low scoring and probably unwatchable games in the run up to it's introduction, for example why would Dublin beat a team by 15 points instead of 5 when they know already that the more they win by the more they will be handicapped when the system was introduced and on the other hand why would one of Dublin's hopeful challengers want to be beaten by 4 points rather than 10 points when they know the latter would benefit them more in the future.

So we would have possibly 3 seasons of terrible games and on top of that then discover that the handicap is totally inaccurate anyway.

It's a practice that has happened on more than one occasion in horse racing when you hear of a horse "being held back" to reduce the handicap and when the time is right , bang, it wins a race at higher odds than it should have been.
"
No matter what changes take place under the umbrella of the gaa they will never be without its flaws and criticisms, so this would be no different, the glaringly obvious flaw that you see could be offset or avoided in how it is set up, yes I could see teething problems popping up in the first year, so fine tuning may be necessary and sobeit.
Like I said previously I would base it on our golfing handicap system with a tweek here and there if necessary, No one has to know anything about the handicaps until they are being made available to all teams simultaneously, their origin would be based on the previous 1, 2, or 3 previous nfl and / or championship performances, all in retrospect.
I wouldn't see this proposal as a means of rewarding a team because its inability to perform, compete, or achieve, similarly, would I see it as a way of penalising a team for being successful or over achieving, rather I would see it as a way to bridging the gap or levelling the playing field, it could be introduced initially and provisionally for a two or three year period.

I have said it before I would not compare the happenings or changes within the gaa to that of any other sport either here or abroad, not comparable full stop.

I pleasantly notice how you analyzed and threw out your concerns, flaws etc, and pointed out its possible failings, nothing wrong with that, I would call that constructive criticism. Compare that to some of our analytical posters here who kicked it into touch before they actually read the proposal. Aka instant dismissal."
The Championship is the competition to determine the champion team, or best team, that year. Not the best team taking in consideration playing numbers, numbers of coaches, whose clubs volunteers raise more or less money, who has better or worse county boards or management teams, who spends more or less on intercounty squads, in other words who has been underperforming or over performing for a myriad of different possible reasons over the last 3 years in whatever competition. It shouldn't be any more complicated than that. Different counties have over the years had great teams come along and some counties have historically had more of these great teams than others in both codes. And especially in the days of straight knockout dark horses occasionally came through and won it out! That's the essence and magic of it. If a terrible team won it purely because some lads sitting around a table or computer in Croke Park decided they should get a 30 point head start because they were so bad it would make winning it totally meaningless. Even to the team that won it."]Ah Jesus no, 30 point head start, even New York could win the All-Ireland with a handicap like that !

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1946 - 12/05/2021 21:09:27    2341353

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I can't believe this handicap system nonsense is still being discussed.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1508 - 12/05/2021 21:29:44    2341358

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Yeah I guess that's a question of semantics.

To clarify I think that there should be attempts at improving competitive balance.

I'm very strongly against things that can do so at the expense of competitive integrity, mainly rewarding competitors for poor performance.

It happens in US sports around draft picks and I think it goes against the essence of competition."
In a sense, the US NFL draft and slight handicapped schedule (teams play 2 odd games against Conf opponents who finished in the same position in their div the prior yr) is aimed at making the league more competitive.

I think there is an emphasis here more on marketing / entertainment spectacle (not a bad endeavour in and of itself) as opposed to your point, competition integrity (also highly important).

Imagine for a moment that all 32 inter-county teams were naturally/hypothetically evenly balanced with an equal chance of winning Sam - it would be so exciting !

Given the real world, would modest handicaps (of any kind, financial or otherwise) to better level the AIC playing field and create better entertainment / uncertainty of victory outcomes be worth pursuing (albeit at modest distortion of pure competitive integrity) - open question ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2151 - 13/05/2021 04:25:48    2341383

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Replying To AfricanGael:  "
Replying To Viking66:  "[quote=supersub15:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "Until now perhaps. While I admire your endeavors, there is one glaringly obvious flaw in what you propose and it's this, it would lead to low scoring and probably unwatchable games in the run up to it's introduction, for example why would Dublin beat a team by 15 points instead of 5 when they know already that the more they win by the more they will be handicapped when the system was introduced and on the other hand why would one of Dublin's hopeful challengers want to be beaten by 4 points rather than 10 points when they know the latter would benefit them more in the future.

So we would have possibly 3 seasons of terrible games and on top of that then discover that the handicap is totally inaccurate anyway.

It's a practice that has happened on more than one occasion in horse racing when you hear of a horse "being held back" to reduce the handicap and when the time is right , bang, it wins a race at higher odds than it should have been.
"
No matter what changes take place under the umbrella of the gaa they will never be without its flaws and criticisms, so this would be no different, the glaringly obvious flaw that you see could be offset or avoided in how it is set up, yes I could see teething problems popping up in the first year, so fine tuning may be necessary and sobeit.
Like I said previously I would base it on our golfing handicap system with a tweek here and there if necessary, No one has to know anything about the handicaps until they are being made available to all teams simultaneously, their origin would be based on the previous 1, 2, or 3 previous nfl and / or championship performances, all in retrospect.
I wouldn't see this proposal as a means of rewarding a team because its inability to perform, compete, or achieve, similarly, would I see it as a way of penalising a team for being successful or over achieving, rather I would see it as a way to bridging the gap or levelling the playing field, it could be introduced initially and provisionally for a two or three year period.

I have said it before I would not compare the happenings or changes within the gaa to that of any other sport either here or abroad, not comparable full stop.

I pleasantly notice how you analyzed and threw out your concerns, flaws etc, and pointed out its possible failings, nothing wrong with that, I would call that constructive criticism. Compare that to some of our analytical posters here who kicked it into touch before they actually read the proposal. Aka instant dismissal."
The Championship is the competition to determine the champion team, or best team, that year. Not the best team taking in consideration playing numbers, numbers of coaches, whose clubs volunteers raise more or less money, who has better or worse county boards or management teams, who spends more or less on intercounty squads, in other words who has been underperforming or over performing for a myriad of different possible reasons over the last 3 years in whatever competition. It shouldn't be any more complicated than that. Different counties have over the years had great teams come along and some counties have historically had more of these great teams than others in both codes. And especially in the days of straight knockout dark horses occasionally came through and won it out! That's the essence and magic of it. If a terrible team won it purely because some lads sitting around a table or computer in Croke Park decided they should get a 30 point head start because they were so bad it would make winning it totally meaningless. Even to the team that won it."]Ah Jesus no, 30 point head start, even New York could win the All-Ireland with a handicap like that !"]Wouldn't that be the point of a handicap system?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3341 - 13/05/2021 06:36:06    2341388

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To whom it concerns, I suggest this debate is postponed due to it being oversubscribed with negativities.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2470 - 13/05/2021 09:17:20    2341398

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Replying To Viking66:  "
Replying To AfricanGael:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=supersub15:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "Until now perhaps. While I admire your endeavors, there is one glaringly obvious flaw in what you propose and it's this, it would lead to low scoring and probably unwatchable games in the run up to it's introduction, for example why would Dublin beat a team by 15 points instead of 5 when they know already that the more they win by the more they will be handicapped when the system was introduced and on the other hand why would one of Dublin's hopeful challengers want to be beaten by 4 points rather than 10 points when they know the latter would benefit them more in the future.

So we would have possibly 3 seasons of terrible games and on top of that then discover that the handicap is totally inaccurate anyway.

It's a practice that has happened on more than one occasion in horse racing when you hear of a horse "being held back" to reduce the handicap and when the time is right , bang, it wins a race at higher odds than it should have been.
"
No matter what changes take place under the umbrella of the gaa they will never be without its flaws and criticisms, so this would be no different, the glaringly obvious flaw that you see could be offset or avoided in how it is set up, yes I could see teething problems popping up in the first year, so fine tuning may be necessary and sobeit.
Like I said previously I would base it on our golfing handicap system with a tweek here and there if necessary, No one has to know anything about the handicaps until they are being made available to all teams simultaneously, their origin would be based on the previous 1, 2, or 3 previous nfl and / or championship performances, all in retrospect.
I wouldn't see this proposal as a means of rewarding a team because its inability to perform, compete, or achieve, similarly, would I see it as a way of penalising a team for being successful or over achieving, rather I would see it as a way to bridging the gap or levelling the playing field, it could be introduced initially and provisionally for a two or three year period.

I have said it before I would not compare the happenings or changes within the gaa to that of any other sport either here or abroad, not comparable full stop.

I pleasantly notice how you analyzed and threw out your concerns, flaws etc, and pointed out its possible failings, nothing wrong with that, I would call that constructive criticism. Compare that to some of our analytical posters here who kicked it into touch before they actually read the proposal. Aka instant dismissal."
The Championship is the competition to determine the champion team, or best team, that year. Not the best team taking in consideration playing numbers, numbers of coaches, whose clubs volunteers raise more or less money, who has better or worse county boards or management teams, who spends more or less on intercounty squads, in other words who has been underperforming or over performing for a myriad of different possible reasons over the last 3 years in whatever competition. It shouldn't be any more complicated than that. Different counties have over the years had great teams come along and some counties have historically had more of these great teams than others in both codes. And especially in the days of straight knockout dark horses occasionally came through and won it out! That's the essence and magic of it. If a terrible team won it purely because some lads sitting around a table or computer in Croke Park decided they should get a 30 point head start because they were so bad it would make winning it totally meaningless. Even to the team that won it."]Ah Jesus no, 30 point head start, even New York could win the All-Ireland with a handicap like that !"]Wouldn't that be the point of a handicap system?"]Not 30 points though, even though Dublin would beat that handicap anyway against New York, the score line would end at about 6-20 to 0-04 if NY were lucky, anytime I've looked at the bookies handicap Dublin have beaten it.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1946 - 13/05/2021 09:50:08    2341407

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Replying To supersub15:  "To whom it concerns, I suggest this debate is postponed due to it being oversubscribed with negativities."
Realities supersub15

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3341 - 13/05/2021 10:40:09    2341418

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The way to the future in the link below ?

https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2021/0302/1200395-gaa-football-dublin-regional-franchises-budget-caps/

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2151 - 14/05/2021 04:23:17    2341625

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Replying To Viking66:  "Realities supersub15"
Sad realities may be more applicable.☆

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2470 - 14/05/2021 10:14:24    2341643

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Replying To AfricanGael:  "
Replying To Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=supersub15:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "Until now perhaps. While I admire your endeavors, there is one glaringly obvious flaw in what you propose and it's this, it would lead to low scoring and probably unwatchable games in the run up to it's introduction, for example why would Dublin beat a team by 15 points instead of 5 when they know already that the more they win by the more they will be handicapped when the system was introduced and on the other hand why would one of Dublin's hopeful challengers want to be beaten by 4 points rather than 10 points when they know the latter would benefit them more in the future.

So we would have possibly 3 seasons of terrible games and on top of that then discover that the handicap is totally inaccurate anyway.

It's a practice that has happened on more than one occasion in horse racing when you hear of a horse "being held back" to reduce the handicap and when the time is right , bang, it wins a race at higher odds than it should have been.
"
No matter what changes take place under the umbrella of the gaa they will never be without its flaws and criticisms, so this would be no different, the glaringly obvious flaw that you see could be offset or avoided in how it is set up, yes I could see teething problems popping up in the first year, so fine tuning may be necessary and sobeit.
Like I said previously I would base it on our golfing handicap system with a tweek here and there if necessary, No one has to know anything about the handicaps until they are being made available to all teams simultaneously, their origin would be based on the previous 1, 2, or 3 previous nfl and / or championship performances, all in retrospect.
I wouldn't see this proposal as a means of rewarding a team because its inability to perform, compete, or achieve, similarly, would I see it as a way of penalising a team for being successful or over achieving, rather I would see it as a way to bridging the gap or levelling the playing field, it could be introduced initially and provisionally for a two or three year period.

I have said it before I would not compare the happenings or changes within the gaa to that of any other sport either here or abroad, not comparable full stop.

I pleasantly notice how you analyzed and threw out your concerns, flaws etc, and pointed out its possible failings, nothing wrong with that, I would call that constructive criticism. Compare that to some of our analytical posters here who kicked it into touch before they actually read the proposal. Aka instant dismissal."
The Championship is the competition to determine the champion team, or best team, that year. Not the best team taking in consideration playing numbers, numbers of coaches, whose clubs volunteers raise more or less money, who has better or worse county boards or management teams, who spends more or less on intercounty squads, in other words who has been underperforming or over performing for a myriad of different possible reasons over the last 3 years in whatever competition. It shouldn't be any more complicated than that. Different counties have over the years had great teams come along and some counties have historically had more of these great teams than others in both codes. And especially in the days of straight knockout dark horses occasionally came through and won it out! That's the essence and magic of it. If a terrible team won it purely because some lads sitting around a table or computer in Croke Park decided they should get a 30 point head start because they were so bad it would make winning it totally meaningless. Even to the team that won it."]Ah Jesus no, 30 point head start, even New York could win the All-Ireland with a handicap like that !"]Wouldn't that be the point of a handicap system?"]Not 30 points though, even though Dublin would beat that handicap anyway against New York, the score line would end at about 6-20 to 0-04 if NY were lucky, anytime I've looked at the bookies handicap Dublin have beaten it."]Even in the drawn finals?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3341 - 14/05/2021 11:15:37    2341656

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Replying To Viking66:  "
Replying To AfricanGael:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=supersub15:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "Until now perhaps. While I admire your endeavors, there is one glaringly obvious flaw in what you propose and it's this, it would lead to low scoring and probably unwatchable games in the run up to it's introduction, for example why would Dublin beat a team by 15 points instead of 5 when they know already that the more they win by the more they will be handicapped when the system was introduced and on the other hand why would one of Dublin's hopeful challengers want to be beaten by 4 points rather than 10 points when they know the latter would benefit them more in the future.

So we would have possibly 3 seasons of terrible games and on top of that then discover that the handicap is totally inaccurate anyway.

It's a practice that has happened on more than one occasion in horse racing when you hear of a horse "being held back" to reduce the handicap and when the time is right , bang, it wins a race at higher odds than it should have been.
"
No matter what changes take place under the umbrella of the gaa they will never be without its flaws and criticisms, so this would be no different, the glaringly obvious flaw that you see could be offset or avoided in how it is set up, yes I could see teething problems popping up in the first year, so fine tuning may be necessary and sobeit.
Like I said previously I would base it on our golfing handicap system with a tweek here and there if necessary, No one has to know anything about the handicaps until they are being made available to all teams simultaneously, their origin would be based on the previous 1, 2, or 3 previous nfl and / or championship performances, all in retrospect.
I wouldn't see this proposal as a means of rewarding a team because its inability to perform, compete, or achieve, similarly, would I see it as a way of penalising a team for being successful or over achieving, rather I would see it as a way to bridging the gap or levelling the playing field, it could be introduced initially and provisionally for a two or three year period.

I have said it before I would not compare the happenings or changes within the gaa to that of any other sport either here or abroad, not comparable full stop.

I pleasantly notice how you analyzed and threw out your concerns, flaws etc, and pointed out its possible failings, nothing wrong with that, I would call that constructive criticism. Compare that to some of our analytical posters here who kicked it into touch before they actually read the proposal. Aka instant dismissal."
The Championship is the competition to determine the champion team, or best team, that year. Not the best team taking in consideration playing numbers, numbers of coaches, whose clubs volunteers raise more or less money, who has better or worse county boards or management teams, who spends more or less on intercounty squads, in other words who has been underperforming or over performing for a myriad of different possible reasons over the last 3 years in whatever competition. It shouldn't be any more complicated than that. Different counties have over the years had great teams come along and some counties have historically had more of these great teams than others in both codes. And especially in the days of straight knockout dark horses occasionally came through and won it out! That's the essence and magic of it. If a terrible team won it purely because some lads sitting around a table or computer in Croke Park decided they should get a 30 point head start because they were so bad it would make winning it totally meaningless. Even to the team that won it."]Ah Jesus no, 30 point head start, even New York could win the All-Ireland with a handicap like that !"]Wouldn't that be the point of a handicap system?"]Not 30 points though, even though Dublin would beat that handicap anyway against New York, the score line would end at about 6-20 to 0-04 if NY were lucky, anytime I've looked at the bookies handicap Dublin have beaten it."]Even in the drawn finals?"]Dublin won't travel outside the county nearly for a championship game, never mind crossing an ocean. And they don't have to fundraise either like the other counties do when they're over there.

the_creeler (Leitrim) - Posts: 119 - 14/05/2021 13:03:58    2341677

Link

Replying To omahant:  "The way to the future in the link below ?

https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2021/0302/1200395-gaa-football-dublin-regional-franchises-budget-caps/"
I think that article is very tongue in cheek.

As I've said before I wouldn't be against voluntary merging of county boards. I think it'd need to be on a permanent basis and it'd need to include club championship in addition to county teams. I don't know how the 2 separate codes could be managed.

You'd also worry about the impact it could have on counties with no suitable neighbours to merge with.

If Westmeath and Longford merged, Antrim and Down merged could Louth get isolated.

I don't know if the idea is practically implementable but it would have the potential to improve competitiveness.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3633 - 14/05/2021 13:11:15    2341679

Link