National Forum

"Level The Playing Field."

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Replying To supersub15:  "There doesn't have to be, there is a handicap system here across the country that works very well it could be based on that."
You are talking nonsense. You expect 'elite' sportsmen to compete with handicaps? Name any other top level sports competitions that do this?
What next? Handicaps in the Olympic 100m final, some competitors start at 100m from the finishing line, some at 90m and others at 80m?

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1508 - 10/05/2021 16:38:32    2340962

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Replying To Whammo86:  "A handicap system is ridiculous.

As someone from a regular division 4 county, I'd hate us to be treated differently or given preferential treatment, like handicaps or a second chance that others don't get.

We need to be given a better chance at real development, not some short term contrived solution that doesn't actually fix anything."
It has never been tried and tested so it's only ridiculous if you want it to be ridiculous, I am also a regular from div.4, and no we wouldn't be treated differently or given preferential treatment, the proposed changes would be made to compensate or realign the weaker counties with those who we can't compete with.

The back door was introduced in lieu of real development, short term fix to a long term problem, last year it was straight knock out, as Kerry folk will tell you they didn't get a second bite at the cherry I wonder what would have happened if they did, Tipp and Cavan are not complaining because there was no second chance. For the past 20 years Kerry, Dublin, Donegal, Galway, Tyrone, etc, etc, etc, got preferential treatment with the usage of the back door, we had no option but to sit back and look on.

A handicap system based on our golf handicap system cannot be seen as being ridiculous simply because it has never been put to the test.

A real long term chance has for years been given for real development but nothing has or will change.

Short term fix's will be with us for another 20 ish years it seems.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2470 - 10/05/2021 16:39:45    2340964

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Replying To supersub15:  "It has never been tried and tested so it's only ridiculous if you want it to be ridiculous, I am also a regular from div.4, and no we wouldn't be treated differently or given preferential treatment, the proposed changes would be made to compensate or realign the weaker counties with those who we can't compete with.

The back door was introduced in lieu of real development, short term fix to a long term problem, last year it was straight knock out, as Kerry folk will tell you they didn't get a second bite at the cherry I wonder what would have happened if they did, Tipp and Cavan are not complaining because there was no second chance. For the past 20 years Kerry, Dublin, Donegal, Galway, Tyrone, etc, etc, etc, got preferential treatment with the usage of the back door, we had no option but to sit back and look on.

A handicap system based on our golf handicap system cannot be seen as being ridiculous simply because it has never been put to the test.

A real long term chance has for years been given for real development but nothing has or will change.

Short term fix's will be with us for another 20 ish years it seems."
It's ridiculous

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3633 - 10/05/2021 17:53:51    2340975

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A handicap system is not going to happen.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 951 - 10/05/2021 19:29:14    2340988

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Replying To Galway9801:  "A handicap system is not going to happen."
It's ridiculous, only because you want it to be ridiculous,

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2470 - 10/05/2021 21:09:53    2341001

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Replying To supersub15:  "It's ridiculous, only because you want it to be ridiculous,"
Yeah that's probably it alright

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 951 - 10/05/2021 21:44:31    2341006

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Replying To supersub15:  "It's ridiculous, only because you want it to be ridiculous,"
Never say never, who knows what's down the road, "The times they are a changing." Cant score difference be used (if needed) should the results be score tight and 3 teams are fighting for promotion at the end of the nfl, that in itself can be argued as if it is a score handicap.

NB Please ignore my previous, wrong address.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2470 - 10/05/2021 21:50:32    2341007

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Replying To Whammo86:  "It's ridiculous"
It's ridiculous, only because you want it to be ridiculous,

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2470 - 10/05/2021 21:51:38    2341008

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Replying To supersub15:  "It's ridiculous, only because you want it to be ridiculous,"
Look man, you're being ridiculous, your entire argument in favour of a handicap system is based on hollow, politically correct tokenism, designed to give inferior sports teams the false impression that they're as good as their counterparts,,,,, ,,, actually, on second thought, this idea will probably take off :)

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 951 - 10/05/2021 22:50:03    2341019

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Replying To Whammo86:  "It's ridiculous"
Earlier in this thread you argued in favour of separating genders and promoting ladies gaa in order to make things more interesting.
In fairness you gotta admit that a handicap system would make things more interesting too.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 951 - 10/05/2021 22:53:07    2341023

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I don't know. The not top 12 teams in the men's game have the opportunity to improve themselves. It's not a static list. Derry were a top 12 county 15-20 years ago and had a profile, now they don't. Cavan and Monaghan have gone the other way.

Women's sport has only recently started to get a profile, long may it continue.

Serena Williams or Naomi Osaka aren't as good as the 200th best men in the world but I'd have a lot more interest in them in an Australian Open semifinal than watch some qualifiers.

It is what it is.

There's no conspiracy against weaker teams, it's just not that compelling to know who the 20th v 21st best teams are.

I care about how Antrim do but only because I come from there. Honestly I can see why no one else cares about them. Why would they?

People need to live in the real world."
While most people up and down the country don't care about who's ranked 20th or where Antrim fits in, would an Inter-Regional AI League Championship of say, only 10 teams (below), better 'level the playing field' and keep everyone interested ?

Uls 3 regions (3 counties in each)
West (UW) = Done, Derry, Tyr
South (US) = Ferm, Cav, Mona
East (UE) = Ant, Arm, Down.

Muns 2 regions (3 counties in each)
West (MW) = Kerr, Clar, Lime
East (ME) = Cork, Tipp, Wat.

Conn 2 regions (3 counties in each, incl Lond)
North (CN) = Mayo, Slig, Leit
South (CS) = Galw, Rosc, Lond.

Lein 3 regions (with 3.3 or 4.3 counties in each, incl Dubs split in 3 to the 3 regions)
North (LN) 4.3 = Lou, Mea, Long, Wmea, NDub
Central (LC) 3.3 = Kild, Off, Lao, CentDub
South (LS) 4.3 = Wick, Wex, Carl, Kilk, SDub.

I could see most of the 10 regions being competitive - maybe, a small number of strong teams is best, like hurling ?

Play the season as a League Championship (two year cycle) -
2 groups of 5 (draw at least 1 region from each Prov to each diversified group).
13-match regular season one year (twice v own group, once v other group);
14-match regular season the next year (once v own group, twice v other group).
Teams play the 9 others three times over two years
Top 6 of 10 based on one-year 13 or 14 match combined table to 6-team KO (group winners to AI SFs, crossover 2v3 QFs).

I'd expect a final table ranking like this -
1 UW; 2 MW; 3 US; 4 CS; 5 CN; 6 LN;
7 ME; 8 UE; 9 LC; 10 LS.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2151 - 11/05/2021 05:00:21    2341037

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Replying To supersub15:  "It's ridiculous, only because you want it to be ridiculous,"
It's 2023, the hurling semi-finals. Limerick (-30 points) v Laois, and Galway (-32 points) v Westmeath.
Final scores: Limerick 4 - 24 Laios 0 - 7 and Galway 3 - 30 Westmeath 0 - 8.
Laios will play Westmeath in the All-Ireland final.
Never mind that all of best teams and hurlers in the country will now have been knocked out because of the handicap system. The world can now look forward to an All-Ireland final between two second rate teams Laios v Westmeath. Now do you see how ridiculous your suggestion is?

PS. Apologies to Laios and Westmeath, I only used you as an example. I don't mean to demean you.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1508 - 11/05/2021 10:39:22    2341059

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The athlete Sonia O Sullivan made a suggestion that all counties can bring in two players from outside of each county. Say Cork got two Kerry players, Dave Clifford and another. Mayo bought in say Brian Fenton and one other. And so on down the line.

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2276 - 11/05/2021 11:32:14    2341073

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Replying To galwayford:  "The athlete Sonia O Sullivan made a suggestion that all counties can bring in two players from outside of each county. Say Cork got two Kerry players, Dave Clifford and another. Mayo bought in say Brian Fenton and one other. And so on down the line."
I bet Sonia wouldn't be too keen on giving any of her opponents a 2 metre head start in a marathon she was running

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2276 - 11/05/2021 11:50:12    2341079

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Replying To Galway9801:  "Earlier in this thread you argued in favour of separating genders and promoting ladies gaa in order to make things more interesting.
In fairness you gotta admit that a handicap system would make things more interesting too."
No I didn't.

I just pointed out that Ladies Football needing to be better promoted is not a good comparison to weaker men's teams needing more promotion.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3633 - 11/05/2021 12:06:26    2341085

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Replying To galwayford:  "The athlete Sonia O Sullivan made a suggestion that all counties can bring in two players from outside of each county. Say Cork got two Kerry players, Dave Clifford and another. Mayo bought in say Brian Fenton and one other. And so on down the line."
Then after two it'll be three, and so on. And what about the two local lads who will miss out. They would have worn the shirt with pride playing minor and under 21 for their county; only to see their chance of playing senior taken by outsiders.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1508 - 11/05/2021 12:06:59    2341086

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Replying To supersub15:  "It's ridiculous, only because you want it to be ridiculous,"
Propose it at your club's next meeting then, see how it goes down.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3633 - 11/05/2021 12:07:14    2341087

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "Then after two it'll be three, and so on. And what about the two local lads who will miss out. They would have worn the shirt with pride playing minor and under 21 for their county; only to see their chance of playing senior taken by outsiders."
Spot on. If inter county championship teams can sign players from other counties randomly there would be no point calling them inter county championships. And this would definitely be unfair on players who are from the county.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3341 - 11/05/2021 12:46:28    2341094

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Replying To Viking66:  "Spot on. If inter county championship teams can sign players from other counties randomly there would be no point calling them inter county championships. And this would definitely be unfair on players who are from the county."
No one has convinced me that my suggestion is ridiculous or unworkable, no one.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2470 - 11/05/2021 12:53:54    2341096

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Replying To Viking66:  "Spot on. If inter county championship teams can sign players from other counties randomly there would be no point calling them inter county championships. And this would definitely be unfair on players who are from the county."
And the GAA would have nothing to do with unfairness now would they lol. They already run a handicap system, the only issue with it is that the weaker you are the more they handicap you and the stronger you are the more they fund you, only in Gaaland.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1946 - 11/05/2021 13:01:25    2341099

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