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Shock Results In Days Gone By - Even In The National League

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Westmeath bet Tipp twice in the 80s in the league, i think the first one was 1983 and next one in 1986, i think im correct on that . Meath had a few notable results also in the 90s, i think they drew with wexford one year (1995?) i think and they stayed in div 1 in 2001 by beating Dublin which was a huge success for them.

preddan (Kildare) - Posts: 525 - 22/04/2021 00:19:39    2338295

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Replying To preddan:  "Westmeath bet Tipp twice in the 80s in the league, i think the first one was 1983 and next one in 1986, i think im correct on that . Meath had a few notable results also in the 90s, i think they drew with wexford one year (1995?) i think and they stayed in div 1 in 2001 by beating Dublin which was a huge success for them."
interesting you mention that result I remember the the 1986 win over Galway, it was the 86/87 NHL...it as in Loughrea, and was 2-12 to 1-12..I remember radio sports programme and the coverage of this shock result..not many remember they beat my own Offaly a few weeks later by 3-05 to 0-11, and only lost the last round of the league in Spring 1987 by 0-08 to 0-06 to Kilkenny.

The win over Tipp came in the 1985-86 NHL..interesting about that result it was the pick out of an unbeaten run by Westmeath in that NHL..they only lost the QF to Kilkenny by 3-08 to 0-15..so were more than a match for kilkenny but goals again win it for Kilkenny...hurling was more entertaining back then...people lived for results like above...games are too pedestrian now and forgot about quickly with the format its impossible to remember who played who and when...

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 644 - 23/04/2021 23:39:38    2338588

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Replying To Fairplayalways:  "interesting you mention that result I remember the the 1986 win over Galway, it was the 86/87 NHL...it as in Loughrea, and was 2-12 to 1-12..I remember radio sports programme and the coverage of this shock result..not many remember they beat my own Offaly a few weeks later by 3-05 to 0-11, and only lost the last round of the league in Spring 1987 by 0-08 to 0-06 to Kilkenny.

The win over Tipp came in the 1985-86 NHL..interesting about that result it was the pick out of an unbeaten run by Westmeath in that NHL..they only lost the QF to Kilkenny by 3-08 to 0-15..so were more than a match for kilkenny but goals again win it for Kilkenny...hurling was more entertaining back then...people lived for results like above...games are too pedestrian now and forgot about quickly with the format its impossible to remember who played who and when..."
Yes i have the match programme for that qtr final with kk, wexford and limerick were playing that day too. Michael Cosgrove scored a goal and all for westmeath and it was disallowed, who knows what would have happened if they had got over Kilkenny. Im inclined to agree with you too that the hurling was better back then and into the late 90s.

preddan (Kildare) - Posts: 525 - 25/04/2021 20:19:44    2338736

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Replying To preddan:  "Yes i have the match programme for that qtr final with kk, wexford and limerick were playing that day too. Michael Cosgrove scored a goal and all for westmeath and it was disallowed, who knows what would have happened if they had got over Kilkenny. Im inclined to agree with you too that the hurling was better back then and into the late 90s."
thanks for agreeing about hurling being a bit better back then, the amount of people come on and start about todays skill levels and what have you...its a lighter ball, hurls are more aero dynamic..players are fitter for sure..but the excitement of games is no where near as consistent...I was telling my son there one time about the World cup games back in the 1980s (I am too young to remember the 70s) but I was telling him the commentary was sort of funny in that the commentator appeared to be "outside the crowd nosise" and when the commentator spoke (Ime thinking Jimmy McGee here) the crowd noise disapeared and kicked back in when he was finished...it was very unique and added to games I thought..anyway a different sport I know...the National Leagued back in the day were treated better too..people listened in on their radios and if you missed a game result we had Sean Og OgCeallachain at 11.05pm on a Sunday night...and if a League result was a shock he would tell you the last time the winning team won such and such a game etc...

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 644 - 25/04/2021 23:59:06    2338750

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Yes the league was a great competition that time up until the late 90s early 2000s too. Ive big offaly connections in my family along with a few of those past offaly hurlers so i used to be a frequent visitor when i was young to birr in the late 90s for league games and the atmosphere was second to none. I remember being at the kilkenny league game in 97,the sun was splitting the stones and the place was packed to the rafters almost a championship atmosphere. The league definitely has lost a lot what was special about it

preddan (Kildare) - Posts: 525 - 26/04/2021 22:03:41    2338864

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Louth played Carlow in the quarter-finals of the Leinster Championship in 2011 down in Portlaoise. In the previous ten Championship matches, the Wee County had won every single game. Louth were hot favourites after reaching the Leinster final the previous year. With five mins left Louth were leading 13 points to 10 points. But Carlow scored the last 4 points of the match including a brilliant stoppage time winner from man of the match Brendan Murphy. Carlow deserved their earn well victory.

Ollie2 (Louth) - Posts: 285 - 26/04/2021 22:08:17    2338865

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Replying To Ollie2:  "Louth played Carlow in the quarter-finals of the Leinster Championship in 2011 down in Portlaoise. In the previous ten Championship matches, the Wee County had won every single game. Louth were hot favourites after reaching the Leinster final the previous year. With five mins left Louth were leading 13 points to 10 points. But Carlow scored the last 4 points of the match including a brilliant stoppage time winner from man of the match Brendan Murphy. Carlow deserved their earn well victory."
a shock result no doubt for Louth people, but no more than my own Offaly now, such a result wouldnt shock the greater football world at where both counties were operating from League wise (Div 3 or 4 normally no more than Offaly now) What a missed opportunity that was for Louth in 2010, and such chances when not taken can prove to be a once in life time opportunity to win something...Offaly hurlers win in 1980 over Kilkenny in Leinster is such an example, Offaly threw away a five or six point lead in that game and Kilkenny came on strong to loose only by a point, Offaly didnt score in the closing stages, if Offaly lost that game would they have won the Leinsters (and indeed the All Ireland the following year in 1981)??? its very hard to say, if they lost would it have affected the team, I am sure it would, interestinly Laois lost a thriller to Offaly in Leinster hurling semi final (replay I think without going checking) and hurling people in Leinster will claim that that Laois defeat was a huge knock back to what was obviously a great Laois team..if Laois won that would they have won a provincial or two or even an All Ireland as result???...we wil never know....the lines are fine between sucess and failure...

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 644 - 27/04/2021 09:57:12    2338887

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Replying To Ollie2:  "Louth played Carlow in the quarter-finals of the Leinster Championship in 2011 down in Portlaoise. In the previous ten Championship matches, the Wee County had won every single game. Louth were hot favourites after reaching the Leinster final the previous year. With five mins left Louth were leading 13 points to 10 points. But Carlow scored the last 4 points of the match including a brilliant stoppage time winner from man of the match Brendan Murphy. Carlow deserved their earn well victory."
If it's any consolation Ollie Carlow were victorious over the De facto leinster champions, at the time that piece of significance wasn't picked up by the media, I picked up on it on the full time whistle.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2254 - 27/04/2021 17:02:09    2338973

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Replying To supersub15:  "If it's any consolation Ollie Carlow were victorious over the De facto leinster champions, at the time that piece of significance wasn't picked up by the media, I picked up on it on the full time whistle."
I know the Meath goal v Louth was "how the ball was got over the line" and not did it cross the line...unfortunately the register of results and records wont record it that way though...in the second half of the 1985 All Ireland hurling final Galway had a perfectly legitimate goal, and I am not talking was it threw or pushed over the line, this ball was struck in with no foul interference etc. and the Sunday game stilled the shot that night and the sliothar was at least 6 to 12 inches over the line and Offaly goal keeper Jim Troy scooped it out, now the ball was just over waist high and not on the ground which at speed is very difficult to see...a viewer from another county other than Galway (I think they were from Westmeath) rang the show (no twitter or social media in 1985) highlighting the "goal" and when the panel looked at it is was glaringly obvious...I suppose these things happen and always will as long as you have human umpires and lines men etc..surely the day isnt far away where by for all county grounds a radar type system looking up along each post and accross the goal line can be set up in minutes on the day of a match and linked to a camera on the sideline, where referee or lines man can just go and replay such incidents...

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 644 - 29/04/2021 09:07:17    2339258

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Replying To Fairplayalways:  "I know the Meath goal v Louth was "how the ball was got over the line" and not did it cross the line...unfortunately the register of results and records wont record it that way though...in the second half of the 1985 All Ireland hurling final Galway had a perfectly legitimate goal, and I am not talking was it threw or pushed over the line, this ball was struck in with no foul interference etc. and the Sunday game stilled the shot that night and the sliothar was at least 6 to 12 inches over the line and Offaly goal keeper Jim Troy scooped it out, now the ball was just over waist high and not on the ground which at speed is very difficult to see...a viewer from another county other than Galway (I think they were from Westmeath) rang the show (no twitter or social media in 1985) highlighting the "goal" and when the panel looked at it is was glaringly obvious...I suppose these things happen and always will as long as you have human umpires and lines men etc..surely the day isnt far away where by for all county grounds a radar type system looking up along each post and accross the goal line can be set up in minutes on the day of a match and linked to a camera on the sideline, where referee or lines man can just go and replay such incidents..."
Fairplayalways (Offaly) I understand where you are coming from and the point you have made shows how easy it appears for officials to make the wrong or no call, in your example Galway were the victims, however the Louth / Meath game was in my opinion that bit different in so far as the Nation didn't need the Sunday game show to replay the goal being scored in ultra-slow motion to point out the legality / illegality of the goal and the raising of the green flag, Fairplayalways you and I know that Louth and indeed Meath people don't need me to go over ploughed ground again shall we say, but I will say this, (after a rethink) the decision makers at the highest level in Croke Park should have immediately taken ownership of that potentially explosive issue to make immediate arrangements for a replay of the game to be played the following week end, that's the least that they could have done, all in the name of what's fair and equitable, but no, what they did was pushed the responsibility over on the Meath team / officials.

The fallout from this unfortunate debacle is that Louth were robbed of a Leinster title and Meath were made look like villains, of course there are other issues not included here but they wouldn't have affected the accounts at the full time whistle.
I want to apologise in advance for opening up an old wound but then again I didn't cause the wound. I have tried to be as reasonable as possible in my reflection of the game.
To the best of my knowledge no safe guards have been put in place to negate a wrong call as was made in the 2010 Leinster senior football final.
Finally, with huge respect to Louth in particular, could the gaa not have presented Louth with a set of replica medals (once off) as a token of regret.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2254 - 29/04/2021 22:15:24    2339427

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Replying To supersub15:  "Fairplayalways (Offaly) I understand where you are coming from and the point you have made shows how easy it appears for officials to make the wrong or no call, in your example Galway were the victims, however the Louth / Meath game was in my opinion that bit different in so far as the Nation didn't need the Sunday game show to replay the goal being scored in ultra-slow motion to point out the legality / illegality of the goal and the raising of the green flag, Fairplayalways you and I know that Louth and indeed Meath people don't need me to go over ploughed ground again shall we say, but I will say this, (after a rethink) the decision makers at the highest level in Croke Park should have immediately taken ownership of that potentially explosive issue to make immediate arrangements for a replay of the game to be played the following week end, that's the least that they could have done, all in the name of what's fair and equitable, but no, what they did was pushed the responsibility over on the Meath team / officials.

The fallout from this unfortunate debacle is that Louth were robbed of a Leinster title and Meath were made look like villains, of course there are other issues not included here but they wouldn't have affected the accounts at the full time whistle.
I want to apologise in advance for opening up an old wound but then again I didn't cause the wound. I have tried to be as reasonable as possible in my reflection of the game.
To the best of my knowledge no safe guards have been put in place to negate a wrong call as was made in the 2010 Leinster senior football final.
Finally, with huge respect to Louth in particular, could the gaa not have presented Louth with a set of replica medals (once off) as a token of regret."
forget your "replica medals" idea...waste of time and abit like the Irish media and FA expecting Ireland soccer team to be allowed in as "extra team" because of Thierry Henrys handball..no Louth player I am pretty sure would want such distinction of getting a medal (which in reality they didnt win) regardless of how the win was taken from them

We must remember, going back to my 1985 Galway goal that wasnt (against my own county I remind you) that there was poor enough action replays even back then, I watched the Offaly/Clare rematch after the first semi final was blew up early by Jimmy Cooney, and even then, replays were not instant, the puck out for example would be taken and the next time he ball went dead then the clip was shown, now adays its instant, BUT unlike VAR the GAA dont use such technology.

As an outsider looking in, there is no guarantee Louth would have won a replay if awarded, yes they would have been up for it 100% but Meath would be a county that wouldnt be found alseep at the wheel if a second chance was to be had either. The scenes at the end of that Leinster final I think are totally understandable, its not popular to say that, but the Gardai and all getting involved was a disgrace and typical Ireland when you go too far pushing anything official, the long arm of the law is implemented and no shortage of judges with Garda Sargents in their ear before the court, and the judges mind is already made up. The GAA should have their own policy and ban the offending supporter, and if caught at a game THEN he is prosecuted for trespassing etc. That man that pushed the referee regretted that within seconds no doubt, and then had to go through the whole media circus, Garda investigation, DPP process of the case to be summoned to court and fined etc..he wasnt exactly a mass offender now or anything..

Others wont agree with my views, no problem with that, each to their own as they say..Louth should have done an Offaly on it there and then, park on pitch until it was addressed on the spot on the day...you get no credit for being nice in most walks of life in this country...Sport and GAA included.

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 644 - 30/04/2021 15:32:35    2339526

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Replying To Fairplayalways:  "forget your "replica medals" idea...waste of time and abit like the Irish media and FA expecting Ireland soccer team to be allowed in as "extra team" because of Thierry Henrys handball..no Louth player I am pretty sure would want such distinction of getting a medal (which in reality they didnt win) regardless of how the win was taken from them

We must remember, going back to my 1985 Galway goal that wasnt (against my own county I remind you) that there was poor enough action replays even back then, I watched the Offaly/Clare rematch after the first semi final was blew up early by Jimmy Cooney, and even then, replays were not instant, the puck out for example would be taken and the next time he ball went dead then the clip was shown, now adays its instant, BUT unlike VAR the GAA dont use such technology.

As an outsider looking in, there is no guarantee Louth would have won a replay if awarded, yes they would have been up for it 100% but Meath would be a county that wouldnt be found alseep at the wheel if a second chance was to be had either. The scenes at the end of that Leinster final I think are totally understandable, its not popular to say that, but the Gardai and all getting involved was a disgrace and typical Ireland when you go too far pushing anything official, the long arm of the law is implemented and no shortage of judges with Garda Sargents in their ear before the court, and the judges mind is already made up. The GAA should have their own policy and ban the offending supporter, and if caught at a game THEN he is prosecuted for trespassing etc. That man that pushed the referee regretted that within seconds no doubt, and then had to go through the whole media circus, Garda investigation, DPP process of the case to be summoned to court and fined etc..he wasnt exactly a mass offender now or anything..

Others wont agree with my views, no problem with that, each to their own as they say..Louth should have done an Offaly on it there and then, park on pitch until it was addressed on the spot on the day...you get no credit for being nice in most walks of life in this country...Sport and GAA included."
Finally, with huge respect to Louth in particular, could the gaa not have presented Louth with a set of replica medals (once off) as a token of regret?"

If you read the first two lines again you will see I carefully included "as a token of regret." Meaning, as in an admission of wrong doing or an error in mismanaging the fallout from that 2010 lsf final, nothing more, nothing less.

So now, this Thierry Henrys thing, I know nothing about him except to say he played against Ireland and scored a goal with his hand, big deal. I'm not being dismissive but that sort of game does nothing for me at all, I simply can't engage with it, perhaps it doesn't have the required history, passion, parochial friendship, family meaning, parish understanding, etc, I just don't know, I would much prefer to watch Div. 4 gaelic football.

I just wouldn't bring into play the 1985.AI final between Galway and Offaly as a comparison to that of Louth and Meath, the goal that wasn't in that game is no way comparable to the goal that was in the Louth and Meath game.

There is no guarantee Meath would have won the replay either, don't forget that the Macro lenses of the gaa sporting world would have been not only on Meath but on the man with the whistle as well.
The scenes at the end of that Leinster final I think are totally understandable you say, no as I think it could have been avoided. Gardai are damned if they do the wrong thing, damned if they do the right thing, and damned if they do nothing at all, convenient losers if you ask me.

You say Louth should have done an Offaly on it there and then, park on pitch until it was addressed on the spot on the day, ..you get no credit for being nice in most walks of life in this country...Sport and GAA included. - - - in my view that's not for you or me to say,
You say, others won't agree with your views, sorry to say but I'm one of those,

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2254 - 30/04/2021 22:10:01    2339561

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Replying To supersub15:  "Finally, with huge respect to Louth in particular, could the gaa not have presented Louth with a set of replica medals (once off) as a token of regret?"

If you read the first two lines again you will see I carefully included "as a token of regret." Meaning, as in an admission of wrong doing or an error in mismanaging the fallout from that 2010 lsf final, nothing more, nothing less.

So now, this Thierry Henrys thing, I know nothing about him except to say he played against Ireland and scored a goal with his hand, big deal. I'm not being dismissive but that sort of game does nothing for me at all, I simply can't engage with it, perhaps it doesn't have the required history, passion, parochial friendship, family meaning, parish understanding, etc, I just don't know, I would much prefer to watch Div. 4 gaelic football.

I just wouldn't bring into play the 1985.AI final between Galway and Offaly as a comparison to that of Louth and Meath, the goal that wasn't in that game is no way comparable to the goal that was in the Louth and Meath game.

There is no guarantee Meath would have won the replay either, don't forget that the Macro lenses of the gaa sporting world would have been not only on Meath but on the man with the whistle as well.
The scenes at the end of that Leinster final I think are totally understandable you say, no as I think it could have been avoided. Gardai are damned if they do the wrong thing, damned if they do the right thing, and damned if they do nothing at all, convenient losers if you ask me.

You say Louth should have done an Offaly on it there and then, park on pitch until it was addressed on the spot on the day, ..you get no credit for being nice in most walks of life in this country...Sport and GAA included. - - - in my view that's not for you or me to say,
You say, others won't agree with your views, sorry to say but I'm one of those,"
as I said near the end, each to their own, me included.the Louth players didnt want to be antagonised altogether by giving them "token" medals...what would they represent???(an admission that the GAA as a whole got a decision wrong,and you (Louth) should be getting Leinster medals propper BUT in their abscence take these "token"medals"...I cant see what they would represent and I doubt if Louth would want them either to be honest...The Thierry Henry hand ball in the soccer, fair enough you have no interest in it, a large part of the country had and know and were intereted in what happened..a good game of soccer is a good game, I notice a lot of GAA "anoraks" are totally anti soccer while liking rugby, a game that is laborous slow, free kicks and scrums and throws take an eternity to take...their are a set of goals and a cross bar yet you get nothing for kicking the ball under the crossbar...tackling rules are over complicated in that you cant pass the ball forward, and their are "knock ons"..yet you can pull the jersey or togs off of fellah physically to stop him, you can tackle almost anyway you want...so while soccers paid millioaires some roll around as if they are pole axed, most have no time for that but at least the ball goes up and down the field like GAA and while scores are scarce compared to GAA the goal area is their to be shot at, not like rugby, bundling the ball over the line at any cost, if a penalty is given it is played short often to attempt to score a try..drop kicks are the only real ball skill in the game yet we rarely see a drop kick..fear of loosing possession...sounds abit like a very successful current county football team.

You say the Galway goal that wasnt was no comparable to Louths situation, I would have been a fairly annoyed Galway player or fan on that Sunday night seeing the sliothar dropping in over the line by almost a foot and the umpires not seeing it..of course its comparable to a degree...Ollie Murphy pushed the ball over the line and which is not allowed and the goal stands...why wouldnt Louth be annoyed and rightly so..There is no guarantee Meath would have won, yes, like Kilkenny in most hurling replays they would have been favourites and probably would have won. Gardai at matches outside fair enough, I cant get whats this thing with a few of them along the sidelines on big match days...outside the grounds yes, the GAA make enough have enough stewards to police a match which in the norm passes off peacefully...like any event, they can be called if needed. I was away for a weekend a few year ago and went to a county ground to see a league game, and a guard arrived in in uniform with a local guard, even though the Guard I knew was stationed about 50 miles away...he left at end in his own car and drove away..a local was telling me the guard he was with was a former county player and the fellah I knew comes over to most matches...so yes these poor guards are certainly damned if the do and damned if they dont..if a row started at that game the lad I knew would he have intervened, should he have been even there?? would we ever even know? or would it be kept "hush hush"...I just think that Louth supporter an attendance at games ban by the GAA would have been sufficient..he jostled the referee, didnt kick, punch or do anything overly nasty, interfered with referee, ban him..if he attacked the referee with a punch or kick or other, then call on the Guards to intervene...thanks your observations by the way..as I say each to their own, you and me included..would love to see Carlow climb the divisions and kick on..no more than our selves ye are at a level that is hard to progress from...Good luck.

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 644 - 30/04/2021 23:48:26    2339571

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Back in 1999 we played Cavan in Breffni in a League game. The night before the game a former county player and at the time current Fr. Manning Gaels player was killed in motorbike accident. The already selected team had 8 Gaels players starting and Longford asked for the game to be postponed but their request was denied. Longford took to the field with 8 changes to the starting line up and had only 3 subs to choose from after the changes were made. We ended up scoring a last minute goal to win the game. Its one game that will always stick with me along with the Mayo (qualifiers) and Kerry (league) victories.

Spinx (Longford) - Posts: 900 - 01/05/2021 20:33:29    2339642

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Replying To Spinx:  "Back in 1999 we played Cavan in Breffni in a League game. The night before the game a former county player and at the time current Fr. Manning Gaels player was killed in motorbike accident. The already selected team had 8 Gaels players starting and Longford asked for the game to be postponed but their request was denied. Longford took to the field with 8 changes to the starting line up and had only 3 subs to choose from after the changes were made. We ended up scoring a last minute goal to win the game. Its one game that will always stick with me along with the Mayo (qualifiers) and Kerry (league) victories."
After Longford's request was refused, in hind sight should Longford have refused to fulfil the fixture as a mark of respect to all concerned, of course it could also be said that the fixture was fulfilled out of respect for the Fr Manning gales club and players. Belated commiserations a chara.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2254 - 01/05/2021 22:10:21    2339663

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Replying To supersub15:  "After Longford's request was refused, in hind sight should Longford have refused to fulfil the fixture as a mark of respect to all concerned, of course it could also be said that the fixture was fulfilled out of respect for the Fr Manning gales club and players. Belated commiserations a chara."
When Longford's request was denied, the remaining players decided to play the game for the memory of Jimmy and also for their 8 team mates from the Gaels. Just a point of note, it was NOT Cavan who said the game should go ahead.

Spinx (Longford) - Posts: 900 - 01/05/2021 23:11:47    2339669

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Replying To Spinx:  "When Longford's request was denied, the remaining players decided to play the game for the memory of Jimmy and also for their 8 team mates from the Gaels. Just a point of note, it was NOT Cavan who said the game should go ahead."
An interesting story indeed..sometimes I think it's nice the game goes ahead in ways...maybe the deceased (RIP) would want that being a former player...ime off to Google that game now..

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 644 - 03/05/2021 00:06:46    2339739

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https://www.independent.ie/sport/tragic-death-casts-a-cloud-over-longford-26159945.html

Match report from Irish Independent

Spinx (Longford) - Posts: 900 - 03/05/2021 17:45:50    2339819

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https://www.independent.ie/sport/tragic-death-casts-a-cloud-over-longford-26159945.html

Match report from Irish Independent

Spinx (Longford) - Posts: 900 - 03/05/2021 17:45:56    2339820

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very good read, scary to think it is 22 years ago!!!...where has time gone...that chap that was killed in the motor bike accident would be 46 now, a young man still...looking at both teams and some great names in there, for Cavan Bernard Morris and Dermot McCabe..isnt it gas when a county does not win regular provincials the way players are forgotten outside that county...

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 644 - 03/05/2021 23:19:57    2339873

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