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Replying To football first: "While I grew up admiring the excellent Offaly hurlers of the late 80s and 90s, I'm a bit puzzled by threads like this (and articles that appear in other media too) that single out Offaly hurling for saving. Where are the similar threads, seeking to "save" Down hurling, or Roscommon hurling, or any other of the lower tier counties for that matter? I'd also be interested in seeing a thread or two entitled "what can be done to save Kilkenny football", for example!!" Offaly captured the imagination of GAA folk in their heyday. The fact we have fallen so far from those glory days, is a tale in itself. We in Offaly, and the Executive are the ones who can improve things. There are positive signs at underage in both codes, so things may be turning. Keep the faith.
Kilkenny football is a unique case, they do have 3 Leinster SF titles from the early 20th Century, but hurling is now Number 1. Football would be the dominant sport in the other counties you mention, with some dedicated hurling people working away in certain areas.
MicktheMiller (Offaly) - Posts: 421 - 24/02/2021 15:22:13
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Would it not be more beneficial to promote hurling in all the "weaker counties" not just single out Offaly
butterfly (Meath) - Posts: 112 - 24/02/2021 15:38:16
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Replying To butterfly: "Would it not be more beneficial to promote hurling in all the "weaker counties" not just single out Offaly" What can be done though? 20+ county boards in Ireland have little/no interest in hurling. The game is being kept alive by locals who love the game. That can only get you so far.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 24/02/2021 16:37:38
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To help Offaly hurling, I'd say sit down with the Dubs and realize what it takes to progress to the top table in hurling from a similar position.
Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 24/02/2021 16:49:18
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Replying To Fairplayalways: "Offaly or Wexford never beat anybody by 30 points in championship game, not many counties have beaten anyone by that, and if they did surge ahead they might leave a strong team on the field but would "keep the scoreboard ticking over" but would not be going for "goals" at every juncture..." In the 1954 Championship Offaly beat Westmeath by 20 points. Wexford beat Kilkenny by 19 points. Then beat Dublin in the Leinster final by 22 points. Then beat Antrim in the AISF by 44 points. They scored 12 goals. Lost the final to Cork 1-9 to 1-6.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11734 - 24/02/2021 18:44:05
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Replying To Viking66: "In the 1954 Championship Offaly beat Westmeath by 20 points. Wexford beat Kilkenny by 19 points. Then beat Dublin in the Leinster final by 22 points. Then beat Antrim in the AISF by 44 points. They scored 12 goals. Lost the final to Cork 1-9 to 1-6." And that team were much admired for their sporting and fair conduct
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11734 - 24/02/2021 18:47:47
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Replying To Fairplayalways: "Good man, an excellent post, the Christy RIng is a must this year but to be honest its not guaranteed, and the Joe McDonagh is a tier higher we would be competitive at the most in that, I see all these other counties now playing this attacking "drive at you" type and have the hurlers to do it, Offaly have a few excellent hurlers who play like that, but too many (including some of the so called stars, get the ball and its like time is expected to stand still for them to get a pass (which it always seems to be) to get rid of the ball, no carrying it into the oppostion defence, and if they do, well its "thats it" let someone else try and win it back further out the field (my job is done type attitude)...there just is no buzz or theath, lovely scores from over near the sideline now and again, the rest mainly frees, the odd long point but intensity in the main, I dont see that in Offaly hurling outside maybe Cillian Kiely (taking a year out in 2021) and Ben Coneely..good skillful players further up but no drive or intensity like the two lads mentioned..games seem padestrian to the them and it appears to be pre programmed..Galway should either be put back into Connaught or enter the championsip like before in latter stages OR worse case rotate year about between Leinster and Munster, let Antrim back into Ulster and play off a propper championship be it only 3 teams or whatever in Ulster, having the Ulster final of a Saturday afternoon at 1pm, and showing 90 seconds of it the following night on the Sunday Game is an insult the likes of Antrim, Down and Derry whom in fairness have carried Ulster hurling along, if it isnt upto the standard of Munster or Leinster so be it, let them improve each other and maybe give them Qtr final against the qualifier winners with the winners then facing the provincial champions in the AI semi finals..will they win agains the Provincial champions, probably not, but they will learn, and will have som silverware at end of the season, they dont even have a provincial title now I think (I stand corrected)...Galway is in Connaught, if they are the only team in Connaught, thats a matter for GAA and Connaught council to address, its not Leinsters job to "after school them" while they championship plays out..no doubt the GAA would aggree as hosting Kilkenny and Galway in BnaM OCP of a Saturday night is all they are interested in...with some complicated scenario after spending so much on OCP, apparently the county board are only renting it from Tullamore GAA club..I cannot get my head around that set up at all...if only things were straight forward in Offaly might be a help..every thing is "revenue" related at the expense of a decent intercounty set up..." Galway are in Leinster to stay and rightly so. They saved the Leinster Hurling Championship when they joined it and its a much better Championship today because of their participation in it. Wexford have improved because of their presence and Dublin too although they have regressed a bit since.
Antrim have earned their right to compete in the Leinster Championship in 2021. Geography has nothing to do with it anymore. Whether they retain that right in 2022 remains to be seen but they are there on merit in 2021.
Offaly may not have had the season they wanted on the field in 2020 but they got a massive boost to their ambitions off the field. I've no doubt that Mr Duignan and Co exerted their influence but the Leinster Council( for some reason) voted to expand their Championship from 5 teams to 6 thus lessing the quality of competition as well as compromising its format. This will benefit Offaly if and when they get back to the provincial Championship. They will likely have to beat Laois ,Antrim , Carlow or Westmeath to remain there. That may be a step too far for a year or two but if they are to return to the top this helps.
Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 15 - 24/02/2021 19:15:42
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Replying To Tadhg2020: "Galway are in Leinster to stay and rightly so. They saved the Leinster Hurling Championship when they joined it and its a much better Championship today because of their participation in it. Wexford have improved because of their presence and Dublin too although they have regressed a bit since.
Antrim have earned their right to compete in the Leinster Championship in 2021. Geography has nothing to do with it anymore. Whether they retain that right in 2022 remains to be seen but they are there on merit in 2021.
Offaly may not have had the season they wanted on the field in 2020 but they got a massive boost to their ambitions off the field. I've no doubt that Mr Duignan and Co exerted their influence but the Leinster Council( for some reason) voted to expand their Championship from 5 teams to 6 thus lessing the quality of competition as well as compromising its format. This will benefit Offaly if and when they get back to the provincial Championship. They will likely have to beat Laois ,Antrim , Carlow or Westmeath to remain there. That may be a step too far for a year or two but if they are to return to the top this helps." Its easy say Galway should be in Leinster and rightly so, would you take the in Munster, and reaistically before Limerick (whom I have always supported in both codes since I was a child) reached the standard they are now at, would probably be beating Limerick/Clare and maybe Waterford, leaving Tipp and Cork the traditional teams who would not fear them...Leinster hurling was on its knees, but in fairness, Wexford aided by Davy Fitz and an U21 team which reached an All Ireland a few years back I think, have a decent side now and with a dip in Kilkennys ruthlessness, Leinster and Laois I think too will make it competitive again, Dublin too of course, another hurling team I like, are capable of winning a Leinster title too..Antrim and Galway in "a Leinster championship" a team in Leinster are not "eligible" to partake in, is laughable. If you want to go down the route of having other counties in other provinces, then either let them into Munster too, OR better still reshape an open draw for championship groups and Galway and Down for example are in Munster to Start off with, and Antrim and Derry are Leinster, next year, either draw them out again or purposely put Galway in Leinster next season..its an insult to Leinster hurling that Galway are the "defib and now the patient has stabilized (Leinster hurling is better now -not because Galway were in it but because Wexford/Laois and Dublin are very competitive) so let Munster take Galway now and see how they get on...I can hear the roars in the corridor God for bid the knock out Cork or Tipperary, you dont know what its like not be "allowed" hurl in your own province yet outside counties can come in and hurl in your place...if that is to improve hurling, i missed something over all the years I am following it..Clare, Waterford and LImerick could have well fallen to where Offaly are now had Galway been allowed into Munster 20/25 yeas When Tipp and Cork (and Clare) were at the top table, you wouldnt have been so supportive of "oh by the Galway are not partaking in Munster longterm"...and I really do like Limerick, delighted to see ye win the two All Irelands, long long over due, and I hope ye win another and beat Kilkenny in a final...
Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 1034 - 24/02/2021 20:43:17
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Replying To Fairplayalways: "Its easy say Galway should be in Leinster and rightly so, would you take the in Munster, and reaistically before Limerick (whom I have always supported in both codes since I was a child) reached the standard they are now at, would probably be beating Limerick/Clare and maybe Waterford, leaving Tipp and Cork the traditional teams who would not fear them...Leinster hurling was on its knees, but in fairness, Wexford aided by Davy Fitz and an U21 team which reached an All Ireland a few years back I think, have a decent side now and with a dip in Kilkennys ruthlessness, Leinster and Laois I think too will make it competitive again, Dublin too of course, another hurling team I like, are capable of winning a Leinster title too..Antrim and Galway in "a Leinster championship" a team in Leinster are not "eligible" to partake in, is laughable. If you want to go down the route of having other counties in other provinces, then either let them into Munster too, OR better still reshape an open draw for championship groups and Galway and Down for example are in Munster to Start off with, and Antrim and Derry are Leinster, next year, either draw them out again or purposely put Galway in Leinster next season..its an insult to Leinster hurling that Galway are the "defib and now the patient has stabilized (Leinster hurling is better now -not because Galway were in it but because Wexford/Laois and Dublin are very competitive) so let Munster take Galway now and see how they get on...I can hear the roars in the corridor God for bid the knock out Cork or Tipperary, you dont know what its like not be "allowed" hurl in your own province yet outside counties can come in and hurl in your place...if that is to improve hurling, i missed something over all the years I am following it..Clare, Waterford and LImerick could have well fallen to where Offaly are now had Galway been allowed into Munster 20/25 yeas When Tipp and Cork (and Clare) were at the top table, you wouldnt have been so supportive of "oh by the Galway are not partaking in Munster longterm"...and I really do like Limerick, delighted to see ye win the two All Irelands, long long over due, and I hope ye win another and beat Kilkenny in a final..." Firstly Galway were in Munster for a number of years and left again of their own accord.
Secondly Offaly arent out of Leinster because Galway are in. They are out because they currently aren't good enough.
Thirdly the powers that be did rejig the hurling championship. They made it a 10 team championship with 5 in Munster of the Standard and 4 in Leinster of the standard and one a bit off that standard. The Leinster Council have now extended that to two that are a bit off the standard. Thst is the reality. Dublin aren't great. Laois aren't either and we all know that Antrim will struggle. All 5 teams in Munster are much better than those three teams.
The above situation in Leinster helps Offaly as I said earlier. The standard has been, voluntarily, lowered by the guardians of the LSHC. All Offaly have to do now is to be better than the other team that is below the standard required. However they are currently at least 6 teams behind that standard so there is some work to do.The key is to capture the imagination of the counties youth. Make them want to commit to the game and the county development squads. That is the real job of work that the County Board faces.
Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 15 - 24/02/2021 22:53:56
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Replying To Fairplayalways: "Its easy say Galway should be in Leinster and rightly so, would you take the in Munster, and reaistically before Limerick (whom I have always supported in both codes since I was a child) reached the standard they are now at, would probably be beating Limerick/Clare and maybe Waterford, leaving Tipp and Cork the traditional teams who would not fear them...Leinster hurling was on its knees, but in fairness, Wexford aided by Davy Fitz and an U21 team which reached an All Ireland a few years back I think, have a decent side now and with a dip in Kilkennys ruthlessness, Leinster and Laois I think too will make it competitive again, Dublin too of course, another hurling team I like, are capable of winning a Leinster title too..Antrim and Galway in "a Leinster championship" a team in Leinster are not "eligible" to partake in, is laughable. If you want to go down the route of having other counties in other provinces, then either let them into Munster too, OR better still reshape an open draw for championship groups and Galway and Down for example are in Munster to Start off with, and Antrim and Derry are Leinster, next year, either draw them out again or purposely put Galway in Leinster next season..its an insult to Leinster hurling that Galway are the "defib and now the patient has stabilized (Leinster hurling is better now -not because Galway were in it but because Wexford/Laois and Dublin are very competitive) so let Munster take Galway now and see how they get on...I can hear the roars in the corridor God for bid the knock out Cork or Tipperary, you dont know what its like not be "allowed" hurl in your own province yet outside counties can come in and hurl in your place...if that is to improve hurling, i missed something over all the years I am following it..Clare, Waterford and LImerick could have well fallen to where Offaly are now had Galway been allowed into Munster 20/25 yeas When Tipp and Cork (and Clare) were at the top table, you wouldnt have been so supportive of "oh by the Galway are not partaking in Munster longterm"...and I really do like Limerick, delighted to see ye win the two All Irelands, long long over due, and I hope ye win another and beat Kilkenny in a final..." Galway were in Munster for ten years and they beat Clare once-their sole win in the ten years. Limerick had won six All Irelands by 1940 To Galways one and had beaten Galway about five times to one. Going on League and championship games over the years I see no reason to suggest that Galway would have completely dominated Limerick in Munster. Limerick Under 21s have also beaten limerick in six out 8 meetings, and although Limerick do not have a great record against them at minor level it is a grade we seldom seem to excel at anyway. I would also suggest that this thing that Galway failing because they were alone in Connacht is a bit over blown. How come Kerry have 36 All Irelands and they often had very poor opposition in Munster
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4317 - 25/02/2021 00:16:50
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Replying To Fairplayalways: "Its easy say Galway should be in Leinster and rightly so, would you take the in Munster, and reaistically before Limerick (whom I have always supported in both codes since I was a child) reached the standard they are now at, would probably be beating Limerick/Clare and maybe Waterford, leaving Tipp and Cork the traditional teams who would not fear them...Leinster hurling was on its knees, but in fairness, Wexford aided by Davy Fitz and an U21 team which reached an All Ireland a few years back I think, have a decent side now and with a dip in Kilkennys ruthlessness, Leinster and Laois I think too will make it competitive again, Dublin too of course, another hurling team I like, are capable of winning a Leinster title too..Antrim and Galway in "a Leinster championship" a team in Leinster are not "eligible" to partake in, is laughable. If you want to go down the route of having other counties in other provinces, then either let them into Munster too, OR better still reshape an open draw for championship groups and Galway and Down for example are in Munster to Start off with, and Antrim and Derry are Leinster, next year, either draw them out again or purposely put Galway in Leinster next season..its an insult to Leinster hurling that Galway are the "defib and now the patient has stabilized (Leinster hurling is better now -not because Galway were in it but because Wexford/Laois and Dublin are very competitive) so let Munster take Galway now and see how they get on...I can hear the roars in the corridor God for bid the knock out Cork or Tipperary, you dont know what its like not be "allowed" hurl in your own province yet outside counties can come in and hurl in your place...if that is to improve hurling, i missed something over all the years I am following it..Clare, Waterford and LImerick could have well fallen to where Offaly are now had Galway been allowed into Munster 20/25 yeas When Tipp and Cork (and Clare) were at the top table, you wouldnt have been so supportive of "oh by the Galway are not partaking in Munster longterm"...and I really do like Limerick, delighted to see ye win the two All Irelands, long long over due, and I hope ye win another and beat Kilkenny in a final..." Thanks for your kind comments about Limerick- I would say that when Galway were let into Munster, they were left in at all grades on day one. It took about ten years for them to be left into Leinster at minor and U21 level
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4317 - 25/02/2021 00:22:09
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Replying To Fairplayalways: "Its easy say Galway should be in Leinster and rightly so, would you take the in Munster, and reaistically before Limerick (whom I have always supported in both codes since I was a child) reached the standard they are now at, would probably be beating Limerick/Clare and maybe Waterford, leaving Tipp and Cork the traditional teams who would not fear them...Leinster hurling was on its knees, but in fairness, Wexford aided by Davy Fitz and an U21 team which reached an All Ireland a few years back I think, have a decent side now and with a dip in Kilkennys ruthlessness, Leinster and Laois I think too will make it competitive again, Dublin too of course, another hurling team I like, are capable of winning a Leinster title too..Antrim and Galway in "a Leinster championship" a team in Leinster are not "eligible" to partake in, is laughable. If you want to go down the route of having other counties in other provinces, then either let them into Munster too, OR better still reshape an open draw for championship groups and Galway and Down for example are in Munster to Start off with, and Antrim and Derry are Leinster, next year, either draw them out again or purposely put Galway in Leinster next season..its an insult to Leinster hurling that Galway are the "defib and now the patient has stabilized (Leinster hurling is better now -not because Galway were in it but because Wexford/Laois and Dublin are very competitive) so let Munster take Galway now and see how they get on...I can hear the roars in the corridor God for bid the knock out Cork or Tipperary, you dont know what its like not be "allowed" hurl in your own province yet outside counties can come in and hurl in your place...if that is to improve hurling, i missed something over all the years I am following it..Clare, Waterford and LImerick could have well fallen to where Offaly are now had Galway been allowed into Munster 20/25 yeas When Tipp and Cork (and Clare) were at the top table, you wouldnt have been so supportive of "oh by the Galway are not partaking in Munster longterm"...and I really do like Limerick, delighted to see ye win the two All Irelands, long long over due, and I hope ye win another and beat Kilkenny in a final..." But offaly actually are eligible to play in leinster,, so long as they, no different to say louth, or wicklow meet certain criteria.
If galway ever somehow end up contriving to lose to the likes of kerry or down in the hurling we'll be booted out too.
Look at it this way, had offaly hurlings awful decline this last 10 years been effectively ignored avd they were still let play in the leinster championship anyway it would have been a real insult to other counties who are trying to make the grade.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1699 - 25/02/2021 06:38:57
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Wexford were 5 points up v Tipp with 10 minutes to go against 14 men if I remember right. That is throwing a game away in my book, and having beaten Kilkenny already in the year, we'll never know for sure I guess but I don't see us getting a better chance for this team.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 25/02/2021 09:40:21
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Replying To Oldtourman: "Galway were in Munster for ten years and they beat Clare once-their sole win in the ten years. Limerick had won six All Irelands by 1940 To Galways one and had beaten Galway about five times to one. Going on League and championship games over the years I see no reason to suggest that Galway would have completely dominated Limerick in Munster. Limerick Under 21s have also beaten limerick in six out 8 meetings, and although Limerick do not have a great record against them at minor level it is a grade we seldom seem to excel at anyway. I would also suggest that this thing that Galway failing because they were alone in Connacht is a bit over blown. How come Kerry have 36 All Irelands and they often had very poor opposition in Munster" In fairness Galway are a far better hurling county than they were back then. Just look at their record this millenium at all grades at national not just provincial level. And that was the case a few years before their senior team joined the LSHC. If Wexford had been playing in Munster in the 30s they would have been the whipping boys. If they had been playing in the Munster championship in the 50s and 60s they would've been 1 of a big 3 with Tipp and Cork. Outside the traditional big 3 all the counties have had fallow decades. The period that Galway played in Munster was 1 of them.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11734 - 25/02/2021 17:00:41
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Replying To Viking66: "In fairness Galway are a far better hurling county than they were back then. Just look at their record this millenium at all grades at national not just provincial level. And that was the case a few years before their senior team joined the LSHC. If Wexford had been playing in Munster in the 30s they would have been the whipping boys. If they had been playing in the Munster championship in the 50s and 60s they would've been 1 of a big 3 with Tipp and Cork. Outside the traditional big 3 all the counties have had fallow decades. The period that Galway played in Munster was 1 of them." I am not sure if being in the thick of a province where you have two of the big three and Waterford, Limerick and Clare, all teams that have all contested All Ireland Finals since 2000, would be overwhelmed that easily by Galway. Remember Clare and Limerick between have won nine of the last 21 U21 All Irelands and Waterford and Tipp have also won titles- ironically Cork is the only Munster Hurling county not to have won an U21 title since the Millennium. I agree Galway have had good teams since about the mid seventies, but they often promise more that that deliver
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4317 - 25/02/2021 17:40:57
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Replying To Oldtourman: "I am not sure if being in the thick of a province where you have two of the big three and Waterford, Limerick and Clare, all teams that have all contested All Ireland Finals since 2000, would be overwhelmed that easily by Galway. Remember Clare and Limerick between have won nine of the last 21 U21 All Irelands and Waterford and Tipp have also won titles- ironically Cork is the only Munster Hurling county not to have won an U21 title since the Millennium. I agree Galway have had good teams since about the mid seventies, but they often promise more that that deliver" Agree they most certainly wouldn't have overwhelmed Munster. But they would've done better than they did the last time. They would probably have done as well as anyone else.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11734 - 25/02/2021 19:45:36
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Replying To Viking66: "Agree they most certainly wouldn't have overwhelmed Munster. But they would've done better than they did the last time. They would probably have done as well as anyone else." The point is that the MSHC is strong enough and well balanced without Galway. The LSHC is not. They bring some of the strength and balance required to preserve the integrity of that competition. Their presence in Leinster gives as fair a split of quality as possible with 5 quality teams in Munster and 4 in Leinster. Thats why they were placed there and its also why they will remain there.
Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 15 - 25/02/2021 22:02:07
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Replying To Tadhg2020: "The point is that the MSHC is strong enough and well balanced without Galway. The LSHC is not. They bring some of the strength and balance required to preserve the integrity of that competition. Their presence in Leinster gives as fair a split of quality as possible with 5 quality teams in Munster and 4 in Leinster. Thats why they were placed there and its also why they will remain there." For sure. They have been great for the LSHC as a competition
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11734 - 25/02/2021 22:20:14
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Replying To Tadhg2020: "The point is that the MSHC is strong enough and well balanced without Galway. The LSHC is not. They bring some of the strength and balance required to preserve the integrity of that competition. Their presence in Leinster gives as fair a split of quality as possible with 5 quality teams in Munster and 4 in Leinster. Thats why they were placed there and its also why they will remain there." And with this thread being about Offaly hurling its important that people dont blame Galway playing in the LSHC for the state Offaly hurling is in.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11734 - 25/02/2021 22:21:43
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Replying To Viking66: "And with this thread being about Offaly hurling its important that people dont blame Galway playing in the LSHC for the state Offaly hurling is in." I agree. However, as someone who has worked in offaly for the last 14 years or so, I find that many Offaly people equate Galways presence and Offalys demise. They resent Galways presence in the LSHC. Its often easier to blame than fix.
Incidentally pretty much all of my Wexford friends also resent Galways presence in the LSHC and are totally against them having home games even within the round Robin system. Thats possibly for another thread though!
Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 15 - 26/02/2021 09:29:13
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