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Replying To Young_gael: "I have to be the devil's advocate.
I think you've the whole thing upside down. Ireland is very unique in that it traditionally accomodated one off housing, rural sprawl and enriching counties with agricultural support. This goes back to the earliest days of the state in the 1920s and 1930s when politicians such as Dev in particular had notions about the sanctity of the Irish countryside and the importance of our agriculture and Peat production at the time. And rightly so.
However as said earlier, Ireland is very unique in this regard. Even driving around England for example you see a big difference in housing strategies; towns are bigger ad nauseum, and population coverage is handled from extending town and city boundaries and building out. The countryside is sparsely populated and is develoed for forest, wind and electrical grids, and future infrastrucutre. Housing is laughed at. Every country in Europe is much the same. Im sorry to be a bubble burster boys but Ireland is now following this example; in the name of renewable energy, cost effectiveness, and centralising services. The days of old Ireland have been numbered for a long time and the one off townlands all over the country will be a thing of the past in the future. We'll all be townies, god help us.
Now to unleash my inner Thatcherite; The state has no responsibility to accomodate the GAA in this whole process. Its up to the organisation to tackle this issue in its good time. The game needs radical changes as it is based off of the provincial
and county boundary system, which is around since the 1500s and is quite frankly outdated, stale, and now incredibly biased toward the population centre and services centre on the island. The GAA has never been a social innovator but it must become one lads... or risk irrelevance. Times are changing." Excellent post.
bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 23/12/2020 10:46:42
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Replying To avonali: "Great post!! Tell me kingdomboy, have u ever heard of a film called "Pilgrim Hill" made by a young Kerry director. It's one of the best Irish films ever made, it's about rural isolation. Check it out; it's a masterpiece." It's set on North Kerry border, not in West Kerry.
avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1974 - 23/12/2020 10:48:36
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Should a son not be able to build on his ancestral land Rolo? I was lucky back here in West kerry as I renovated my grandparents derelict house other than that I wouldn't have been able to live on my land unless I moved in with my parents yet Dolores O'Riordan god rest her was able to get planning for a house worth 3-4 million.
I have friends that have grown up here that have struggled to get planning where there are people from up the country that have holiday homes that are only used a few months a year." I think it dependent on that person's situation but housing in general should be limited to within a certain distance of a town or village. Town and large parish clubs are the future of rural Ireland.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 739 - 23/12/2020 10:56:00
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Replying To Rolo2010: "Cities shouldn't be taxed more to subsidise rural living. Few governments pursue it because it is unfair and wrong to penalise people for where they born or choose to live. You have people on here wanting more one-off housing." Well if your view was taken up there wouldn't be many people left in places like Donegal, Kerry and Mayo. Rural depopulation has already happened on a massive scale.
Planning even for locals is gone to ridiculous levels. The government want everyone living in semi d heaven...no thanks.
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11236 - 23/12/2020 11:43:14
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Predictions for 2021.
The minister for finance may be asked to financially support weaker counties in liew of insufficient sponsorship through no fault of anyones.
People like Sean Kelly, Jim Gavin and Pat Gilroy may be asked to put in place a plan / package to rescue Leinster football.
Players from Kilkenny may be encouraged to amalgamate with Carlow and / or Wicklow'
Una Healy will be the new presenter of the Ronan Collins show.
Hurling will get stronger especially in the weaker football counties.
The next vacancy that for a sports commentator that becomes available will be filled by a female.
Dublin are priced at 1 / 2 to win 10 in a row, I predict that will change to at least 1 / 3 at least.
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2908 - 23/12/2020 11:54:36
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Replying To avonali: "Great post!! Tell me kingdomboy, have u ever heard of a film called "Pilgrim Hill" made by a young Kerry director. It's one of the best Irish films ever made, it's about rural isolation. Check it out; it's a masterpiece." Each to their own i guess,, id love to move out to the countryside if I could afford it,, to give it a try anyway,, I know people who have left the city and they wouldn't come back if you paid them.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1720 - 23/12/2020 12:06:54
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Replying To yew_tree: "Well if your view was taken up there wouldn't be many people left in places like Donegal, Kerry and Mayo. Rural depopulation has already happened on a massive scale.
Planning even for locals is gone to ridiculous levels. The government want everyone living in semi d heaven...no thanks." Taxing people living in cities won't help rural Ireland. It's just a vindictive policy designed to hurt people.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 739 - 23/12/2020 13:00:58
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Replying To lionofludesch: "That's a wider issue than the GAA.
The only solution is regional subsidies to encourage folk to live in whatever part of the country you want. Pay for it with higher taxes on city dwellers.
Few governments have had the courage to pursue it.
Consequently, cities all over the world get more crowded (which has its own problems) and the countryside more sparsely populated." The whole point of this conversation is to stop the flow of players in Dublin and make other counties stronger by keeping their youth at home and eventually raise there families in the country side.
In 2003 the Irish Times announced that 8 government departments would be moved around the country. Did this ever happen?
If proper development structures are in place to spread the jobs around and make every rural area vibrant then there will be no discussion down the road about splitting Dublin in two.
I fear more that in 20 years 10% of clubs in rural Ireland will be gone due to lack of jobs and tough planning laws.
They should be encouraging country living!!
Crossgaa (Mayo) - Posts: 553 - 23/12/2020 13:14:59
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Replying To Crossgaa: "The whole point of this conversation is to stop the flow of players in Dublin and make other counties stronger by keeping their youth at home and eventually raise there families in the country side.
In 2003 the Irish Times announced that 8 government departments would be moved around the country. Did this ever happen?
If proper development structures are in place to spread the jobs around and make every rural area vibrant then there will be no discussion down the road about splitting Dublin in two.
I fear more that in 20 years 10% of clubs in rural Ireland will be gone due to lack of jobs and tough planning laws.
They should be encouraging country living!!" When did irish people become so compliant and cowardly?!
Why were there no issues with one off housing years ago when technology was not available etc? Now we are meant to have better things in every walk of life but we are not allowed get planning permission on land that we own ourselves.
It is like a dictatorship. We cannot do what we want on our own land?! Why do we accept this?? Who makes these laws?? What is the reason behind them? Why was there no issues thirty years ago??
It is very annoying and we continue to be trampled upon. Has anyone anywhere in a position of authority got the guts to stand up and say this is bloody wrong.
People predicting in ten years that rural clubs will fold due to lack of numbers etc and yet a few planners can dictate to the whole country. It's pathetic and we should say enough is enough
the creeler (Cavan) - Posts: 512 - 23/12/2020 13:59:02
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Replying To avonali: "Great post!! Tell me kingdomboy, have u ever heard of a film called "Pilgrim Hill" made by a young Kerry director. It's one of the best Irish films ever made, it's about rural isolation. Check it out; it's a masterpiece." I did see that film Avon it was very good allright but very depressing. You wouldn't want to be watching it after a skip of liquor.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 23/12/2020 14:05:07
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Replying To Young_gael: "I have to be the devil's advocate.
I think you've the whole thing upside down. Ireland is very unique in that it traditionally accomodated one off housing, rural sprawl and enriching counties with agricultural support. This goes back to the earliest days of the state in the 1920s and 1930s when politicians such as Dev in particular had notions about the sanctity of the Irish countryside and the importance of our agriculture and Peat production at the time. And rightly so.
However as said earlier, Ireland is very unique in this regard. Even driving around England for example you see a big difference in housing strategies; towns are bigger ad nauseum, and population coverage is handled from extending town and city boundaries and building out. The countryside is sparsely populated and is develoed for forest, wind and electrical grids, and future infrastrucutre. Housing is laughed at. Every country in Europe is much the same. Im sorry to be a bubble burster boys but Ireland is now following this example; in the name of renewable energy, cost effectiveness, and centralising services. The days of old Ireland have been numbered for a long time and the one off townlands all over the country will be a thing of the past in the future. We'll all be townies, god help us.
Now to unleash my inner Thatcherite; The state has no responsibility to accomodate the GAA in this whole process. Its up to the organisation to tackle this issue in its good time. The game needs radical changes as it is based off of the provincial
and county boundary system, which is around since the 1500s and is quite frankly outdated, stale, and now incredibly biased toward the population centre and services centre on the island. The GAA has never been a social innovator but it must become one lads... or risk irrelevance. Times are changing." The countryside in England is a playground for rich people coming from London, Wales is polluted with holiday homes owned by English people, one example of Scotland is that the queen of England privately owns 50,000 acres to do with as she pleases. There is no comparison between rural Ireland and rural England.
I can see what you're saying though, the state is buying up chunks of land for forestry here, and i suspect that you will have industrial scale farming companies who will buy land off smallholding farmers and squeeze out other ones, all with the government's blessing.
Living in a town has very little appeal for many people.
The state has no responsibility to the GAA it's true, but as one of the largest organisations of any sort in the country in terms of membership, it would do well to heed any alarming reports that are coming from the GAA that parish teams are folding due to lack of members.
I've said before many politicians at local and national level are probably members of the GAA too and that they need to be reminded they have a role in keeping rural Ireland populated.
But I repeat it suits the government to keep housing stock supply low, prices go through the roof and it looks good on paper to see house prices going up...but we've been here before too with that.
republicofcloone (Leitrim) - Posts: 375 - 23/12/2020 14:18:31
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Replying To Rolo2010: "Cities shouldn't be taxed more to subsidise rural living. Few governments pursue it because it is unfair and wrong to penalise people for where they born or choose to live. You have people on here wanting more one-off housing." What's wrong with people wanting one off housing?? You say it's wrong to penalise people for where they choose to live, except if they want to live in a one off house is it?? One off housing has been utilised in this country for centuries but recently our authorities seem to want to outlaw it and the people like sheep believe them and follow blindly. What is the issue??
the creeler (Cavan) - Posts: 512 - 23/12/2020 14:31:17
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "I'm a small farmer from west kerry Greenandred and yesterday evening I was out watching jupiter crossing saturn something that hasn't been visible from the earth since the 12th century, now it was overcast and I couldn see shite but still you can't beat country living.
When I was a young lad I craved the bright lights and went to college in tralee and emersed myself in everything tralee but after enjoying myself as every young man does while in exile I felt the call of that basterd land of home, I found myself ringing my friends from my small town more and more and eventually I moved back done up my grandparents old house and I couldn't be happier." 13th century. 1226.
It doesn't detract from the general thrust of your post but I'm a stickler for accuracy.
lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 475 - 23/12/2020 14:33:55
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Replying To Rolo2010: "Taxing people living in cities won't help rural Ireland. It's just a vindictive policy designed to hurt people." People in cities have pavements, lighting, pubic sewer, water and transport. I pay for my water through a group water scheme.
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11236 - 23/12/2020 14:36:19
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Replying To lionofludesch: "13th century. 1226.
It doesn't detract from the general thrust of your post but I'm a stickler for accuracy." Sound man lionofludesch I always gets that mixed up.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 23/12/2020 15:27:25
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Replying To tonguey: "What's wrong with people wanting one off housing?? You say it's wrong to penalise people for where they choose to live, except if they want to live in a one off house is it?? One off housing has been utilised in this country for centuries but recently our authorities seem to want to outlaw it and the people like sheep believe them and follow blindly. What is the issue??" It's unsustainable and doesn't actually help rural areas. The country has changed a lot in the last 50 years. Cities and towns are where the jobs are and that's why people choose to live there. Investment in public transport, road infrastructure, and developing towns will help rural Ireland.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 739 - 23/12/2020 15:43:36
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Replying To republicofcloone: "The countryside in England is a playground for rich people coming from London, Wales is polluted with holiday homes owned by English people, one example of Scotland is that the queen of England privately owns 50,000 acres to do with as she pleases. There is no comparison between rural Ireland and rural England.
I can see what you're saying though, the state is buying up chunks of land for forestry here, and i suspect that you will have industrial scale farming companies who will buy land off smallholding farmers and squeeze out other ones, all with the government's blessing.
Living in a town has very little appeal for many people.
The state has no responsibility to the GAA it's true, but as one of the largest organisations of any sort in the country in terms of membership, it would do well to heed any alarming reports that are coming from the GAA that parish teams are folding due to lack of members.
I've said before many politicians at local and national level are probably members of the GAA too and that they need to be reminded they have a role in keeping rural Ireland populated.
But I repeat it suits the government to keep housing stock supply low, prices go through the roof and it looks good on paper to see house prices going up...but we've been here before too with that." Parish teams folding is not a concern for the Government. The GAA has to adapt to changes in society.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 739 - 23/12/2020 15:45:45
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Replying To tonguey: "When did irish people become so compliant and cowardly?!
Why were there no issues with one off housing years ago when technology was not available etc? Now we are meant to have better things in every walk of life but we are not allowed get planning permission on land that we own ourselves.
It is like a dictatorship. We cannot do what we want on our own land?! Why do we accept this?? Who makes these laws?? What is the reason behind them? Why was there no issues thirty years ago??
It is very annoying and we continue to be trampled upon. Has anyone anywhere in a position of authority got the guts to stand up and say this is bloody wrong.
People predicting in ten years that rural clubs will fold due to lack of numbers etc and yet a few planners can dictate to the whole country. It's pathetic and we should say enough is enough" A dictatorship? You need to stay off the drink.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 739 - 23/12/2020 15:47:12
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Replying To tonguey: "What's wrong with people wanting one off housing?? You say it's wrong to penalise people for where they choose to live, except if they want to live in a one off house is it?? One off housing has been utilised in this country for centuries but recently our authorities seem to want to outlaw it and the people like sheep believe them and follow blindly. What is the issue??" I think the research shows that providing services to one off housing to what planners call 'urban generated rural dwellers' is much more expensive. Planners rarely allow permission for new builds for people not directly involved in farming. This has become the norm in rural planning in Europe. They are trying to consolidate urban cluster development.
Some say one off housing is damaging tourism, creating massive traffic issues on feeder routes to cities and centres of employment.
The Irish Landholders' Association, claims that one off development is also affecting the price of farmland.
There seems to be compelling arguments for both sides.
avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1974 - 23/12/2020 16:21:46
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Replying To Rolo2010: "A dictatorship? You need to stay off the drink." 'First they came for the bungalows and I did not speak out - Because I am not a bungalow'
Morty (Westmeath) - Posts: 209 - 23/12/2020 16:31:49
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