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Replying To befair: "One obvious rule change is to reduce teams to 13-a-side. Would make it easier for smaller clubs/counties to compete, and make more space and facilitate attacking football.
On a broader scale we need to encourage participation; more football for the casual and older player, perhaps change the rules in some way. You can play soccer or rugby till you are very senior, but now the commitment required and the demands of the game makes footballers over 30 an increasingly rare breed" Ya know I agree, we have masters tournaments in golf, soccer and other sports endorsed by their bodies and the GAA does not recognize masters in GAA. I think they are missing out here. I do agree with the smaller clubs not being able to field teams is a problem, 13 a side would make it more difficult to deploy a sweeper and blanket the field. Thanks for your suggestions
BostonGuy (Galway) - Posts: 111 - 09/12/2020 16:31:57
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Replying To republicofcloone: "No hand passing a score unless it is a volley from a pass to you
Once the ball crosses the 45 the attacking team can't pass it back outside.
Once the ball is past the halfway mark the attacking team can't take it back
Absolutely no pass back to the goalie. Ball can be passed to the goalie if he is in line or ahead of you.
Kickouts must pass a new 30m line at least or it is a throw ball on the 21.
Get rid of the forward mark
If a ball is caught passed the 45 from a kickouts it is an automatic mark and the player must stop to take his free. Free cannot be kicked backwards
Line ball cannot be passed backwards." Im ok with no hand passing a score - Not sure Ciaran Kilkenny would like that one (50% or his scores are near in punch over the bar). I brought up the no pass back over 45 so yep agree and same with GK pass back, it creates a defensive overlap and encourages keep ball. Agree on line ball, I would allow a lateral here though or defenses will predict where the ball is going. All good suggestions and open for debate thanks!
BostonGuy (Galway) - Posts: 111 - 09/12/2020 16:38:34
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Replying To BostonGuy: "Sky is also looking for content you can watch poker and darts on sky. I would love to see the sky numbers for hurling versus football, also sky only broadcasts some of the games not all. Viewing figures are one metric and are historic in nature, there is also sentiment, age/profile, falloff and other considerations. If Dublin hammer Mayo (which they did last year or the year before in the semi's) do you not think Sky will have a discussion in London and ask the question "What's the point?" or "What's in it for viewers to watch these games" and take action. DO you not think the GAA is discussing this in head quarters and are worried about future revenue and viewership? There is also another chat on this forum called "Football is dead" strong words if as some feel that football is thriving.
As for Dublin's dominance of the current system and the "this too will pass" approach, heres another statistic, the great Kerry team of the eighties basically had the same 25 players all through their dynasty, Kilkenny hurlers were a little better with their team with a few adds here and there but basically had the same team. Dublin had three players starting from their first in a row AI six years ago, had the following on the bench this week McMahon, O Sullivan, Lownes, Mannion, Costello, had Connolly and McCarthy and others retire and I would say they have a replica of every single player that started last Sunday, robots that are supreme athletes and can play to the system that will guarantee a win, maybe a hammering but definitely boring." Your making a lot of assumptions here, for instance, assuming Sky will have a discussion about the future of the game on their network. That hasnt happened. So long as people are watching, which they clearly are, then they'll continue to provide a service for those people. Did tennis stop being televised when Fedorer was cleaning up in his prime? Since you mentioned darts, did they stop showing it when Phil Taylor was winning every competition he entered? Schumacher at the F1? People still watched those sports and they didnt start making rules to disadvantage the best so that the rest could make up for being inferior.
I'm not disagreeing that as a spectacle its hard to watch Dublin playing 95% of teams at the minute. I agree its a tough watch. But the answer isn't to reinvent the game because no other team can figure out a style to beat them. I also wouldnt use the calibre of threads on here as a good indicator of how most fans feel about things. A closer look will show you its the same few posters going tit for tat point scoring against each other. Having said that, more sensible discussions about how to progress other counties towards the same standards as Dublin do need to be had as they definitely do recieve a few advantages that other counties should be benefiting from as well.
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2385 - 09/12/2020 16:47:27
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Replying To SaffronDon: "Your making a lot of assumptions here, for instance, assuming Sky will have a discussion about the future of the game on their network. That hasnt happened. So long as people are watching, which they clearly are, then they'll continue to provide a service for those people. Did tennis stop being televised when Fedorer was cleaning up in his prime? Since you mentioned darts, did they stop showing it when Phil Taylor was winning every competition he entered? Schumacher at the F1? People still watched those sports and they didnt start making rules to disadvantage the best so that the rest could make up for being inferior.
I'm not disagreeing that as a spectacle its hard to watch Dublin playing 95% of teams at the minute. I agree its a tough watch. But the answer isn't to reinvent the game because no other team can figure out a style to beat them. I also wouldnt use the calibre of threads on here as a good indicator of how most fans feel about things. A closer look will show you its the same few posters going tit for tat point scoring against each other. Having said that, more sensible discussions about how to progress other counties towards the same standards as Dublin do need to be had as they definitely do recieve a few advantages that other counties should be benefiting from as well." Federer did not go on a six year unbeaten run, nor did Taylor for that matter, or Ronnie o Sullivan or Tiger Woods. Rules were added to F1 for safety and golf (Tiger effect) and golf courses continue to evolve to challenge the long hitters. I dont like darts don't event consider it a sport so no input there. But Boxing PPV collapsed when the outcome is known ahead of time or the fights turned into "Hug fests". Also all of those are individual sports where people will watch to see the individual star in action, football is a team sport. Any business is going to look to future state to see revenue growth. I personally have been part similar conversations at companies so its not an assumption on my part its a business fact. Golf was looking at post Tiger affect even when he was in his prime, this just makes business sense.
Im not asking to reinvent football never said that, what I was and am calling for is an open discussion on what rule changes could evolve the game not reinvent it. Copying Dublin's system standard means more robots, playing keep ball with the best athletes (not best footballers) prevailing. I certainty don't want to watch that.
BostonGuy (Galway) - Posts: 111 - 09/12/2020 17:16:43
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Replying To BostonGuy: "Federer did not go on a six year unbeaten run, nor did Taylor for that matter, or Ronnie o Sullivan or Tiger Woods. Rules were added to F1 for safety and golf (Tiger effect) and golf courses continue to evolve to challenge the long hitters. I dont like darts don't event consider it a sport so no input there. But Boxing PPV collapsed when the outcome is known ahead of time or the fights turned into "Hug fests". Also all of those are individual sports where people will watch to see the individual star in action, football is a team sport. Any business is going to look to future state to see revenue growth. I personally have been part similar conversations at companies so its not an assumption on my part its a business fact. Golf was looking at post Tiger affect even when he was in his prime, this just makes business sense.
Im not asking to reinvent football never said that, what I was and am calling for is an open discussion on what rule changes could evolve the game not reinvent it. Copying Dublin's system standard means more robots, playing keep ball with the best athletes (not best footballers) prevailing. I certainty don't want to watch that." Sticking to team sports then. Italian football in the 90s was the dominant league in world football. The best teams played defensive and cautious football. It got results. Won major trophies (i think something like 90% of European finals in the 90s had an Italian team featuring). But people still tuned in to Football Italia on channel four in their droves. To this day the show has a cult following. BT Sport did a documentary dedicated to it recently. Those teams had skillful players playing defensive systems but the fans still wanted to see it. I think your selling that Dublin team very short if you think they are a team of athletes and don't possess top level skill. Its funny how Barcelona can play a keep ball possession game and get plaudits for it but when a gaelic football team use the same sporting tactics its almost as if its like cheating or against sporting integrity. Why is that?
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2385 - 09/12/2020 17:41:16
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Replying To BostonGuy: "Sky is also looking for content you can watch poker and darts on sky. I would love to see the sky numbers for hurling versus football, also sky only broadcasts some of the games not all. Viewing figures are one metric and are historic in nature, there is also sentiment, age/profile, falloff and other considerations. If Dublin hammer Mayo (which they did last year or the year before in the semi's) do you not think Sky will have a discussion in London and ask the question "What's the point?" or "What's in it for viewers to watch these games" and take action. DO you not think the GAA is discussing this in head quarters and are worried about future revenue and viewership? There is also another chat on this forum called "Football is dead" strong words if as some feel that football is thriving.
As for Dublin's dominance of the current system and the "this too will pass" approach, heres another statistic, the great Kerry team of the eighties basically had the same 25 players all through their dynasty, Kilkenny hurlers were a little better with their team with a few adds here and there but basically had the same team. Dublin had three players starting from their first in a row AI six years ago, had the following on the bench this week McMahon, O Sullivan, Lownes, Mannion, Costello, had Connolly and McCarthy and others retire and I would say they have a replica of every single player that started last Sunday, robots that are supreme athletes and can play to the system that will guarantee a win, maybe a hammering but definitely boring." heres another statistic, the great Kerry team of the eighties basically had the same 25 players all through their dynasty, Kilkenny hurlers were a little better with their team with a few adds here and there but basically had the same team.
That's only half true. The Kerry team from the 1978 final had 11 of the same starters for the 1986 final and were, no doubt, an exceptionally talented, once-in-a-lifetime bunch.
However, the Kilkenny hurlers from the 2006 final had only 3 of the same starters in the 2014 final and this was down to 1 in the 2015 final. While the 2006 crop were a smashing team, they evolved over the next several years to have nearly a whole new team at the end of that period.
For comparison, the Dublin starting team of 2011 had 4 starters in the 2019 final (3 for the replay) suggesting that their evolution was very similar to that of Kilkenny.
Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 09/12/2020 18:31:12
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Replying To SaffronDon: "Sticking to team sports then. Italian football in the 90s was the dominant league in world football. The best teams played defensive and cautious football. It got results. Won major trophies (i think something like 90% of European finals in the 90s had an Italian team featuring). But people still tuned in to Football Italia on channel four in their droves. To this day the show has a cult following. BT Sport did a documentary dedicated to it recently. Those teams had skillful players playing defensive systems but the fans still wanted to see it. I think your selling that Dublin team very short if you think they are a team of athletes and don't possess top level skill. Its funny how Barcelona can play a keep ball possession game and get plaudits for it but when a gaelic football team use the same sporting tactics its almost as if its like cheating or against sporting integrity. Why is that?" I wouldnt see this as being about Dublin at all. Theres nothing wrong at all with playing a possession game and Barcelona are an example of a team that maximize on a possession game while playing an exciting attacking brand of football. Dublin are brilliant to watch in their own way and the manner in which they carved open Meath and scored their first goal in the Leinster final was simply superb. But neither they nor any other team can become "the Barcelona of Gaelic football" because the rules as currently framed favour a defensive approach and facilitate and reward risk avoidance/ risk minimization far more than they do creativity and enterprise.
PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1903 - 09/12/2020 18:32:46
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The quality of football being played now - tactically, skilfully & physically - is as good, if not better, when compared to any other era.
A few tweaks:
1) Abolish the advanced and defensive marks
2) combine black and yellow cards, and replace with a 10-minute sinbin (this works very well at every level of ladies football already)
3) Reduce team numbers to 13 a side - promotes use of space, allowing skilful players to prosper. There's a historical precedent for this, with the game having already moved from 21 to 17 to 15,
football first (None) - Posts: 1259 - 09/12/2020 18:54:08
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Replying To SaffronDon: "Sticking to team sports then. Italian football in the 90s was the dominant league in world football. The best teams played defensive and cautious football. It got results. Won major trophies (i think something like 90% of European finals in the 90s had an Italian team featuring). But people still tuned in to Football Italia on channel four in their droves. To this day the show has a cult following. BT Sport did a documentary dedicated to it recently. Those teams had skillful players playing defensive systems but the fans still wanted to see it. I think your selling that Dublin team very short if you think they are a team of athletes and don't possess top level skill. Its funny how Barcelona can play a keep ball possession game and get plaudits for it but when a gaelic football team use the same sporting tactics its almost as if its like cheating or against sporting integrity. Why is that?" Im not selling the Dublin team short, I have described them as supreme athletes that almost play robotically to a proven system that is successful and boring. I have also stated they are the most successful team ever, the fittest team ever, probably the most dedicated team ever, but I don't think they are the most skillful football team ever. They do have ball skills Im not denying but rarely will you see a Dublin player take on an opponent, they play a no contact, play backwards and no touch at any cost brand of football, that relies heavily on sheet athletes rather than football skill.
Your are right al lot of Italian teams got to finals that were bore fests that teams played to go to pennos, besides AC how many were successful?
Many fans went to watch individual stars in Italy the likes of Maradona then Van Basten, Gullit, Del Piero etc and I would say tolerated the defensive setups because the individual creativity produced. Italian soccer is still defensive and look at it now in the popularity stakes, its no where near the most popular league in the world and the revenue and stars have for the most part abandoned it, their negative approach finally caught up with them.
Barcelona on the other hand where an incredible team, yep they could play defensive if needed but also played unbelievable offense with Messi and Xavi being the kingpins, not supreme athletes but gifted footballers. A lot different to watching Dublin play keep ball for 14 minutes and then have a pure athlete such as Ciaran Kilkenny punch the ball over the bar from 10 yards out.
BTW soccer looked at making the goals bigger to encourage more scoring at one point because of the defensive structures, the off side rule was to stop players parking behind defenders and they have also introduced VAR. There are problems but they will refine, but at least they acknowledge change is needed and now we know when the ball goes over the line of not. Rules if implemented correctly do not break a game is my point.
BostonGuy (Galway) - Posts: 111 - 09/12/2020 18:58:23
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Replying To BostonGuy: "To answer your question, better teams will always win, Kerry were still dominant after Eoin Liston couldn't hand pass a score anymore. The goal is NOT to kill the better teams and I never said 'entertaining' football would prevent better teams wining but it is to ensure the games evolve as new tactics and strategies strangle the current approach. As for dont compare GAA to soccer, I think GAA is competing against soccer and rugby here in Ireland and the fact that GAA Go and Sky have deals show the global platform for the GAA. It might just be Irish ex-Pats right now but the market can grow, but not with "puke football". Do I think teams select players based on stats within county teams? 100% they are looking at statistics, You may remember Lee Keegan throwing his GPS at Dean Rock in an AI, they are tracking age, nutrition, recovery, distance, body fat, injury risk, opposition video analysis, fatigue of the current GAA intercountry (and some clubs) player, and as for the GAA is not a professional sport, its like rugby before it turned professional, the only thing amateur is the non-payment of a salary to the players, everyone else is getting paid, even the guy selling choc ices from a cart.
As for the fickle supporter I would like to hear from the Meath fan who is going to head down to CP next year to see their team trounced in a game of keep ball. The armchair supporter is what kept GAA going through covid and is what also allows the GAA to grow their platform, they buy merchandise, watch ads, pay for value added products/services a lot more than a paltry attendance at some games. Liverpool would not survive on the takings from Anfield, its a contributor no doubt but don't discount the armchair supporter." Dublin don't play puke football, some of the football they play is the best that's ever been seen. It's fine having rule changes and other innovations to make the games more attractive to watch for some in a TV audience who are casual sports fans who like gung-ho naive attack-a-plenty sports. But that won't improve Gaelic football within Ireland and arguably it'll improve the standard even more of the top teams. You're comparing Gaelic football to sports with a worldwide brand. I'm probably too old and cynical for this debate but for me TV and social media have already ruined soccer by selling the lie that attacking football is all that counts. Most fullbacks can't defend any more. Centre mids are the main defenders in the game, defenders have to be able to play some football, defending is not always the main criteria when buying an actual defender?!! Tommy from Timbuctoo could become an overnight sensation for beating 4 players and cracking in a goal from 40 yards in the North East Timbuctoo U10 Junior C league and someone adding it to Tiktok after recording it on their phone. Manchester City under Guardiola were deemed by many 'pundits' to be the best team to ever play in England after they won a few Leagues. Pure social media hype and clickbait nonsense. They played some class attacking football but were too reliant on some star players, wizards like Silva, Aguero and De Bruyne, keeping the ball but their defenders couldn't actually defend in the heat of battle and have been exposed since. Purely naive stuff in comparison to great Man United teams under Ferguson, Arsenal under Wenger, Liverpool under Paisley. Teams who could play ball and defend pragmatically and knew the time for eithe like great teams do. I know what they use the GPS data for, sometimes good info, sometimes it can reveal poor judgement from a coach who subs out a player based on info that he's tiring even though he, or she, could still have an interest in the game. Moneyball wasn't about GPS data, was from historical player data in a professional sport. No GAA county has a statistician advising coaches to go and sign this player, potentially he's finished but our data says he can do a job.
Not sure why but the ladies game can be better to watch on TV than the mens game. Less stop start, less pulling and dragging, though for me I'd prefer to be at a mens game with some hard hitting challenges and some stop start rather than a ladies game where there's no milling involved. On TV I think the physical game isn't as obvious as being at the game.
It'd be lovely to see hurling on ESPN play if the day rather than watching some baseball player catching a ball, unchallenged, with a glove that's bigger than his head. But the GAA need to decide where they're going from here. I think potentially a Tier 2 Gaelic football system could destroy intercounty football in some so-called weaker counties and could be send some of their best prospects to professional sports, to work in Tier One counties or just play club football as the standards gap widens even further. A dreadful reality is that, Premier League style, kids from Wexford and Antrim could start wearing Kerry and Galway jersies and referring to their own county teams as their second team. Many football supporters in England stopped going to Premier League games, disillusioned with the inflated prices for tickets, with boards deciding layer transfer, with TV companies dictating game scheduling and now go to cheaper lower League club games, happy with their more grassroots setup. I don't begrudge Dublin their success but hope, from now, the GAA will use resources more equitably to try and improve standards at the bottom for counties willing to work hard to improve, improve it so that all counties can improve their playing numbers and their supporters, rather than complacently take the easy cash from the stronger counties because there's a TV audience for it. If not they'll be lucky to get 10 years from a Tier One setup before realising that many of their Tier Two intercounty players and supporters stopped going to games because the top brass hadn't a clue what if was like for them and robbed the poor to make the rich fatter.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7344 - 09/12/2020 19:12:07
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Replying To football first: "The quality of football being played now - tactically, skilfully & physically - is as good, if not better, when compared to any other era.
A few tweaks:
1) Abolish the advanced and defensive marks
2) combine black and yellow cards, and replace with a 10-minute sinbin (this works very well at every level of ladies football already)
3) Reduce team numbers to 13 a side - promotes use of space, allowing skilful players to prosper. There's a historical precedent for this, with the game having already moved from 21 to 17 to 15," Cant disagree any of these, maybe impact at an underage level might be all I can think of. Maybe the pass back after the halfway line might be another. I like you do not like the mark.
BostonGuy (Galway) - Posts: 111 - 09/12/2020 19:12:52
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Replying To Kurt_Angle: "heres another statistic, the great Kerry team of the eighties basically had the same 25 players all through their dynasty, Kilkenny hurlers were a little better with their team with a few adds here and there but basically had the same team.
That's only half true. The Kerry team from the 1978 final had 11 of the same starters for the 1986 final and were, no doubt, an exceptionally talented, once-in-a-lifetime bunch.
However, the Kilkenny hurlers from the 2006 final had only 3 of the same starters in the 2014 final and this was down to 1 in the 2015 final. While the 2006 crop were a smashing team, they evolved over the next several years to have nearly a whole new team at the end of that period.
For comparison, the Dublin starting team of 2011 had 4 starters in the 2019 final (3 for the replay) suggesting that their evolution was very similar to that of Kilkenny." That's fair enough, my point is its going to be a long time if we are waiting for this Dublin dynasty to end, its not just six in a row they have won seven out of last eight and you could argue that Donegal caught them on the hop. it could easily have been 8 for 8 and there are odds now on 10 in a row. With the the robotic football they play how many spectators will be around to watch it. Teams are going out against Dublin not to win, but not to get humiliated, the football for the most part is awful and people are switching of the TV after 10 mins.
BostonGuy (Galway) - Posts: 111 - 09/12/2020 19:21:40
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Replying To BostonGuy: "Im not selling the Dublin team short, I have described them as supreme athletes that almost play robotically to a proven system that is successful and boring. I have also stated they are the most successful team ever, the fittest team ever, probably the most dedicated team ever, but I don't think they are the most skillful football team ever. They do have ball skills Im not denying but rarely will you see a Dublin player take on an opponent, they play a no contact, play backwards and no touch at any cost brand of football, that relies heavily on sheet athletes rather than football skill.
Your are right al lot of Italian teams got to finals that were bore fests that teams played to go to pennos, besides AC how many were successful?
Many fans went to watch individual stars in Italy the likes of Maradona then Van Basten, Gullit, Del Piero etc and I would say tolerated the defensive setups because the individual creativity produced. Italian soccer is still defensive and look at it now in the popularity stakes, its no where near the most popular league in the world and the revenue and stars have for the most part abandoned it, their negative approach finally caught up with them.
Barcelona on the other hand where an incredible team, yep they could play defensive if needed but also played unbelievable offense with Messi and Xavi being the kingpins, not supreme athletes but gifted footballers. A lot different to watching Dublin play keep ball for 14 minutes and then have a pure athlete such as Ciaran Kilkenny punch the ball over the bar from 10 yards out.
BTW soccer looked at making the goals bigger to encourage more scoring at one point because of the defensive structures, the off side rule was to stop players parking behind defenders and they have also introduced VAR. There are problems but they will refine, but at least they acknowledge change is needed and now we know when the ball goes over the line of not. Rules if implemented correctly do not break a game is my point." I wouldnt say there's a pile of difference between the Dublin scenario you mentioned with Kilkenny and the type of football Barca played. Most of their goals were tap ins after working the ball around for a sustained period of time. The same type of tactics. I didnt hear anybody talking about changing the rules to deal with Barca. I'm not saying dont change any rules. But its time the GAA set some limits. Every season now there are drastic calls made to change the game off the back of whatever dominating tactics have been used on the field. They introduced a mark rule to reward players who catch a ball surrounded by the blanket defence. The game has already passed this type of football by and the rule is suffocating the man marking game now. Has that helped the game? Why not try to pass on the type of knowledge and skills Dublin have recieved so that they can face new challenges and we can see the pinnacle of the sport return to close hard fought contests involving Dublin. Rule changes dont improve the chasing pack and that is the biggest issue in the game today.
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2385 - 09/12/2020 19:38:14
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Replying To football first: "The quality of football being played now - tactically, skilfully & physically - is as good, if not better, when compared to any other era.
A few tweaks:
1) Abolish the advanced and defensive marks
2) combine black and yellow cards, and replace with a 10-minute sinbin (this works very well at every level of ladies football already)
3) Reduce team numbers to 13 a side - promotes use of space, allowing skilful players to prosper. There's a historical precedent for this, with the game having already moved from 21 to 17 to 15," Reducing the number of players is the wrong idea.
It'll only make it easier to retain possession.
The pitch is too big for 15 players rather than being too small.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4222 - 09/12/2020 19:44:09
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Replying To PoolSturgeon: "I wouldnt see this as being about Dublin at all. Theres nothing wrong at all with playing a possession game and Barcelona are an example of a team that maximize on a possession game while playing an exciting attacking brand of football. Dublin are brilliant to watch in their own way and the manner in which they carved open Meath and scored their first goal in the Leinster final was simply superb. But neither they nor any other team can become "the Barcelona of Gaelic football" because the rules as currently framed favour a defensive approach and facilitate and reward risk avoidance/ risk minimization far more than they do creativity and enterprise." Barcelona were very much a risk avoidance side as much as they were a creative attacking side. Similar to Dublin they managed the game perfectly. Control possession and go for the kill when they smell an opening. Simple but effective. There are a lot of similarities actually. You say the rules currently favour defensive teams yet the scoreboards would suggest different. I'm not sure what rules you have in mind that would revolutionise the game for our viewing pleasure but besides Dublin games this season the championship has been as entertaining as any year i can think of. Albeit with a feeling of inevitability about the eventual winner, which is the biggest issue that needs addressed for me. How to bridge the gap in standards between Dublin and the rest, not rules.
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2385 - 09/12/2020 19:51:58
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Replying To BostonGuy: "Im not selling the Dublin team short, I have described them as supreme athletes that almost play robotically to a proven system that is successful and boring. I have also stated they are the most successful team ever, the fittest team ever, probably the most dedicated team ever, but I don't think they are the most skillful football team ever. They do have ball skills Im not denying but rarely will you see a Dublin player take on an opponent, they play a no contact, play backwards and no touch at any cost brand of football, that relies heavily on sheet athletes rather than football skill.
Your are right al lot of Italian teams got to finals that were bore fests that teams played to go to pennos, besides AC how many were successful?
Many fans went to watch individual stars in Italy the likes of Maradona then Van Basten, Gullit, Del Piero etc and I would say tolerated the defensive setups because the individual creativity produced. Italian soccer is still defensive and look at it now in the popularity stakes, its no where near the most popular league in the world and the revenue and stars have for the most part abandoned it, their negative approach finally caught up with them.
Barcelona on the other hand where an incredible team, yep they could play defensive if needed but also played unbelievable offense with Messi and Xavi being the kingpins, not supreme athletes but gifted footballers. A lot different to watching Dublin play keep ball for 14 minutes and then have a pure athlete such as Ciaran Kilkenny punch the ball over the bar from 10 yards out.
BTW soccer looked at making the goals bigger to encourage more scoring at one point because of the defensive structures, the off side rule was to stop players parking behind defenders and they have also introduced VAR. There are problems but they will refine, but at least they acknowledge change is needed and now we know when the ball goes over the line of not. Rules if implemented correctly do not break a game is my point." At the end of the day every game regularly changes their rules.
I do think though that a big problem with the GAA is just the championship format.
We only have a handful of big games so everyone expects every one to be box office.
Most aren't we'd a great championship for stories this year and some good games. The Ulster championship has gone from being dour attritional football to something a bit more sophisticated.
Cavan or Tipp got to the semifinals by right but they're not of the standard you'd usually expect of semifinal sides. What can you do, it doesn't make for a lot of excitement.
When top teams go up against one another the difference is stark.
We need more depth of quality but we also need more MEANINGFUL matches between top teams.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4222 - 09/12/2020 19:54:02
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Dublin are not just a team of athletes.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4222 - 09/12/2020 19:56:12
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The quality of football being played now - tactically, skilfully & physically - is as good, if not better, when compared to any other era.
A few tweaks:
1) Abolish the advanced and defensive marks
2) combine black and yellow cards, and replace with a 10-minute sinbin (this works very well at every level of ladies football already)
3) Reduce team numbers to 13 a side - promotes use of space, allowing skilful players to prosper. There's a historical precedent for this, with the game having already moved from 21 to 17 to 15,
football first (None) - Posts: 1192 - 09/12/2020 18:54:08 Why does the mark have to be abolished?
A sin bin is fairer and should be combination of black and yellow
Dont think reducing 13 a side is necessary. Change the rules. dont reduce players.
Im not selling the Dublin team short, I have described them as supreme athletes that almost play robotically to a proven system that is successful and boring. I have also stated they are the most successful team ever, the fittest team ever, probably the most dedicated team ever, but I don't think they are the most skillful football team ever. They do have ball skills Im not denying but rarely will you see a Dublin player take on an opponent, they play a no contact, play backwards and no touch at any cost brand of football, that relies heavily on sheet athletes rather than football skill.
Your are right al lot of Italian teams got to finals that were bore fests that teams played to go to pennos, besides AC how many were successful?
Many fans went to watch individual stars in Italy the likes of Maradona then Van Basten, Gullit, Del Piero etc and I would say tolerated the defensive setups because the individual creativity produced. Italian soccer is still defensive and look at it now in the popularity stakes, its no where near the most popular league in the world and the revenue and stars have for the most part abandoned it, their negative approach finally caught up with them.
Barcelona on the other hand where an incredible team, yep they could play defensive if needed but also played unbelievable offense with Messi and Xavi being the kingpins, not supreme athletes but gifted footballers. A lot different to watching Dublin play keep ball for 14 minutes and then have a pure athlete such as Ciaran Kilkenny punch the ball over the bar from 10 yards out.
BTW soccer looked at making the goals bigger to encourage more scoring at one point because of the defensive structures, the off side rule was to stop players parking behind defenders and they have also introduced VAR. There are problems but they will refine, but at least they acknowledge change is needed and now we know when the ball goes over the line of not. Rules if implemented correctly do not break a game is my point.
BostonGuy (Galway) - Posts: 23 - 09/12/2020 18:58:23 Calling them robotic playing to a system is very unfair to them. To say their brand of football doesnt rely on football skill is plainly false and very dismissive of one of the best attacking minded teams of recent times.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3510 - 09/12/2020 20:27:20
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Replying To SaffronDon: "Barcelona were very much a risk avoidance side as much as they were a creative attacking side. Similar to Dublin they managed the game perfectly. Control possession and go for the kill when they smell an opening. Simple but effective. There are a lot of similarities actually. You say the rules currently favour defensive teams yet the scoreboards would suggest different. I'm not sure what rules you have in mind that would revolutionise the game for our viewing pleasure but besides Dublin games this season the championship has been as entertaining as any year i can think of. Albeit with a feeling of inevitability about the eventual winner, which is the biggest issue that needs addressed for me. How to bridge the gap in standards between Dublin and the rest, not rules." I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one!
BostonGuy (Galway) - Posts: 111 - 09/12/2020 20:30:38
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Replying To BostonGuy: "Nope watched the full championship, saw Dublin hammer everyone in sight, saw two semi's that were over after 15 minutes. Agree there were matches in the past that teams got hammered but not 3 successive Leinster finals in a row. Next year how many people will go to a Leinster final? As for me being nostalgic, nope I'm a realist, if you are in sport your are in the entertainment business whether you like it or not. Companies that sponsor teams that get beaten by 22 points will stop sponsoring as they want to protect their brand. TV will stop showing games or people just wont bother watching, advertisers will look elsewhere. Rule changes can help with evolving the game, for example square balls stopped half the opposition from killing the GK, and hand passed goals bans stopped the likes of Eoin Liston just hand passing every ball over the bar or in the net. Hurling penalty changes stopped a player from lifting a ball into the 15 yard line and nearly killing a person with a 100mph ball, single goalie pushed the odds in favor of the striker of the ball.
As for a a couple of bad games, get real football has been awful for almost two decades since the Jim McGuiness days of Donegal, you can point to a couple of epic encounters but a single swallow does not make a Summer." Have a look at the Donegal Dublin 2014 semi final and explain how Jim McGuinness ruined football? Such a statement.
Leftpeg1 (Westmeath) - Posts: 88 - 09/12/2020 20:41:16
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