National Forum

Is Croke Park Pitch Too Big

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Replying To catch22:  "Mayo have been able to compete in the AI finals they have contested because their strength and conditioning is on a par with Dublin's. They arguably should have a least one of those finals.

Who are these 8 hurling teams that have a chance of an AI?
Galway , Limerick and Clare have one a piece in the last 25 plus years . Who are these teams you are suggesting have a realistic chance on any kind of a frequent basis ?"
Have you ever heard of Kilkenny, tipp or Waterford etc over there lol.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1118 - 11/12/2020 16:32:30    2321388

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Replying To omahant:  "
Replying To Kurt_Angle:  "Is there any other sport that doesn't have standardised pitch size.

Soccer is one:

The field of play should be 125m x 85m (136 x 93 yards), or a minimum of 120m x 80m (131 x 87 yards) and there must be a minimum of 1.5m of pitch beyond the marked playing area. The same dimensions apply to pitches used in continental UEFA competitions.

Rugby is another:

There is a range of acceptable dimensions for a rugby union pitch: the length of the field of play can vary between 94-100m, whilst the width can range from 68-70m. As we touched on above, the in-goal area at either end can be between 6 and 22m in length

AFL is another:

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It's also pure speculation that smaller pitches wouldn't suit Dublin. Dublin don't tend to shoot from range and tend to work the ball in close to the goals where the opposition commonly defend in numbers, something they've excelled at in the blanket defence era. You could argue that smaller pitches might actually suit them better."
US NFL is the most standardised - must be 100 yards x 160 feet, with end zones 10 yards deep."
Apparently that was because one of the Ivy League universities had a very narrow playing area available.

Harvard, I think it was, though happy to be corrected.

Strange how a sports rules can be influenced by so small a detail.

lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 449 - 11/12/2020 16:40:12    2321389

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Replying To AfricanGael:  "Have you ever heard of Kilkenny, tipp or Waterford etc over there lol."
Offaly won it in 1998. Mustn't have heard in the dark continent.

MicktheMiller (Offaly) - Posts: 269 - 11/12/2020 17:00:16    2321394

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Replying To Ulsterchamps_32:  "If anyone is interested (or bored enough) there is a tool on Google earth that you can measure distance and area. The most recent satellite image does not have the pitch markings on croke park but when it did it measured 144 metres and think 86 metre wide. There's loads of pitches bigger than it.

It does though tend to play different than every other pitch and that's probably to do with the expensive surface it has. If pitch size is a factor against the dubs play them in parnell Park with is only 80 metres wide. Castlebar and Newbridge would be two smaller pitches as well."
Ha, I did that a year or two ago, I think O'Connor Park in Tullamore was one of only 2 main county grounds that were full dimensions.

m_the_d (None) - Posts: 1099 - 11/12/2020 23:53:42    2321498

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Replying To Kurt_Angle:  "Is there any other sport that doesn't have standardised pitch size.

Soccer is one:

The field of play should be 125m x 85m (136 x 93 yards), or a minimum of 120m x 80m (131 x 87 yards) and there must be a minimum of 1.5m of pitch beyond the marked playing area. The same dimensions apply to pitches used in continental UEFA competitions.

Rugby is another:

There is a range of acceptable dimensions for a rugby union pitch: the length of the field of play can vary between 94-100m, whilst the width can range from 68-70m. As we touched on above, the in-goal area at either end can be between 6 and 22m in length

AFL is another:

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It's also pure speculation that smaller pitches wouldn't suit Dublin. Dublin don't tend to shoot from range and tend to work the ball in close to the goals where the opposition commonly defend in numbers, something they've excelled at in the blanket defence era. You could argue that smaller pitches might actually suit them better."
Oh Ya, the big wide open pitch doesnt suit the team that has the biggest number of players to pick from and therefore the highest number of top athletes!!!

Pitch should be standardised to 80-82 metres in width for all intercounty.
Means less skewed toward athleticism and less home advantage for the team that gets to play all big matches at its home ground. Oh wait I forgot Parnell Park is their home ground the place they never actually play in

centerfield (Mayo) - Posts: 349 - 12/12/2020 09:21:31    2321521

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Replying To 97Cavans:  "This is an excellent post and it won't be long before teams realise that trying to force turnovers outside the scoring zone is not very efficient for the level of energy it wastes. What will eventually happen is teams who are in the lead will drop 15 players around the D, basketball style, protectecting the scoring zone and forgetting about man marking. The only time they will push up man on man will be for opposition kickouts.

I would love to see Mayo do something similar. Dublin want to shoot from around the D. They drag teams out to the wings and leave the D open. Defenses would be better off letting forwards go and staying close to the D.

With regards to the croke park, the dimensions aren't the issue. It's the surface is much quicker. It's harder and flatter with very little grass, it's almost like playing on concrete. This suits the pacey, more agile players who are less effective on a heavy pitch. Back in the early 2000s, croke parks surface was much heavier because the grass was longer and the ground was softer"
So the strategy breaks down when Dublin build up a lead and then there's no onus on them to score. That's when the keep ball game management side of things kicks in.

Tyrone in the 2017 season did try to play this extreme blanket with a really efficient counter attack.

Dublin blew them away.

The only way to get close to Dublin now is to go toe to toe with them. Mayo in 2016 and 2017, Kerry in 2019.

A team like Cavan though would just get played around really easily if they went toe to toe with Dublin.

It takes a lot of work to get a team organised and coordinated enough to press in the right zones and not leave space in behind.

To save football we do need to get more teams close to Dublin and capable of playing a more front foot style.

Games for Dublin in Croke Park against all but 2-3 teams are just going to continue to be damp squib affairs for the foreseeable.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3387 - 12/12/2020 10:14:37    2321527

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Replying To cluichethar:  "Jasus COVID-19 is worse than I thought, it's making some go cuckoo. The pitch in Croke Park is too big, the grass is too green, the goal posts are too white. Seriously the only problem I have with Croke Park right now is they it's Too Friggin Empty.
God help us from people with too much time on their hands & access to a keyboard"
Is there ANYTHING to be said for looking at the weight of the football...........

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1109 - 12/12/2020 10:34:30    2321533

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Replying To lionofludesch:  "
Replying To omahant:  "[quote=Kurt_Angle:  "Is there any other sport that doesn't have standardised pitch size.

Soccer is one:

The field of play should be 125m x 85m (136 x 93 yards), or a minimum of 120m x 80m (131 x 87 yards) and there must be a minimum of 1.5m of pitch beyond the marked playing area. The same dimensions apply to pitches used in continental UEFA competitions.

Rugby is another:

There is a range of acceptable dimensions for a rugby union pitch: the length of the field of play can vary between 94-100m, whilst the width can range from 68-70m. As we touched on above, the in-goal area at either end can be between 6 and 22m in length

AFL is another:

link

It's also pure speculation that smaller pitches wouldn't suit Dublin. Dublin don't tend to shoot from range and tend to work the ball in close to the goals where the opposition commonly defend in numbers, something they've excelled at in the blanket defence era. You could argue that smaller pitches might actually suit them better."
US NFL is the most standardised - must be 100 yards x 160 feet, with end zones 10 yards deep."
Apparently that was because one of the Ivy League universities had a very narrow playing area available.

Harvard, I think it was, though happy to be corrected.

Strange how a sports rules can be influenced by so small a detail."]Yeah, think American football was a dangerous game at the start of the last century with loads of players getting killed. The us president intervened. They were potentially going to make the pitch bigger and Harvard objected as they had built a decent stadium. As part of the changes at the time they introduced the forward pass !! It is very interesting.

Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 380 - 12/12/2020 11:02:53    2321537

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "Is there ANYTHING to be said for looking at the weight of the football..........."
If you've ever done one coaching course you'd know how important the dimensions of the area you're playing in are on how an exercise or game plays out.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3387 - 12/12/2020 11:10:22    2321538

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Replying To m_the_d:  "Ha, I did that a year or two ago, I think O'Connor Park in Tullamore was one of only 2 main county grounds that were full dimensions."
Do you know if said tool is calibrated and to what tolerance?? If someone went out there with a trundle wheel we'd know for sure. I very much doubt there is a pitch bigger than CP

centerfield (Mayo) - Posts: 349 - 12/12/2020 12:13:23    2321545

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Replying To m_the_d:  "Ha, I did that a year or two ago, I think O'Connor Park in Tullamore was one of only 2 main county grounds that were full dimensions."
so you are telling me,it should be the "wide open spaces" of tullamore????

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 12/12/2020 16:54:57    2321628

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Replying To centerfield:  "Do you know if said tool is calibrated and to what tolerance?? If someone went out there with a trundle wheel we'd know for sure. I very much doubt there is a pitch bigger than CP"
It's accurate, you can easily check because say measure from the corner of the pitch to the 45 and when it tells you its 45 metres you know it's right. Hard to check some grounds with poorer satellite images, shadows, and no lines. Austin stack park in tralee is very clear and it's the maximum pitch size of 145m x 90m.

Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 380 - 12/12/2020 17:42:51    2321647

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Replying To centerfield:  "The simplest way to level the playing field in inter county football would be to set a max size on pitch width.Make it 80m max width for all intercounty matches. This would mean croke parks pitch width would be reduced by 10%.

Right now the game is too skewed towards having 20 athletes and therefore gives low population counties zero chance"
I agree lets make it 80cm by 30cm. That way it can be 1 on 1 and Mayo can have 30 subs and have Aido v Fenton and ye can win the AI in an mma fight withing the 80/30 octagon.

Someone needs to start marketing mma GAA fights. I watch f all of it myself but I would happily pay 20 euro to see Cluxton and Keegan in a ring or aidan o Shea and Micheal murphy punch the heads off each other. Not even joking. GAA MMA would be a big money spinner in off season.

GameofTyronesIsBackhere (Tyrone) - Posts: 46 - 13/12/2020 07:34:17    2321770

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Replying To GameofTyronesIsBackhere:  "I agree lets make it 80cm by 30cm. That way it can be 1 on 1 and Mayo can have 30 subs and have Aido v Fenton and ye can win the AI in an mma fight withing the 80/30 octagon.

Someone needs to start marketing mma GAA fights. I watch f all of it myself but I would happily pay 20 euro to see Cluxton and Keegan in a ring or aidan o Shea and Micheal murphy punch the heads off each other. Not even joking. GAA MMA would be a big money spinner in off season."
its all fun and games until somebody gets a black eye

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 13/12/2020 09:33:11    2321785

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Ask Stephen Cluxton, out of 110 Championship matches he has played 99 were played in Croke Park.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 555 - 13/12/2020 11:40:16    2321823

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https://www.hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/50172?County=National&PageNumber=3&TopicID=50172

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I'm sure I have the measurements written down somewhere.

m_the_d (None) - Posts: 1099 - 13/12/2020 15:06:46    2321900

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The Croke Park surface does not look great. I know it's winter but still..don't they have under soil heating?

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10584 - 13/12/2020 15:55:45    2321921

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Replying To yew_tree:  "The Croke Park surface does not look great. I know it's winter but still..don't they have under soil heating?"
I agree, never seen it this threadbare, guess its not meant to be used at this time of year. But you are right, surface is pretty crap.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4625 - 13/12/2020 16:55:58    2321947

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