National Forum

Is Croke Park Pitch Too Big

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Replying To centerfield:  "no what's silly is having a pitch that Dubs play on every home match and every big match being bigger than most pitches in the country. Therefore increasing their home advantage factor and allowing them to play a brand of football (extremely high tempo)that willl allow them to burn off 90% of teams on pure athletic power alone. also Is there any other sport that doesn't have standardised pitch size. If Dubs played every match pitch the size of Conleth park would they be anywhere near as dominant"
Is there any other sport that doesn't have standardised pitch size.

Soccer is one:

The field of play should be 125m x 85m (136 x 93 yards), or a minimum of 120m x 80m (131 x 87 yards) and there must be a minimum of 1.5m of pitch beyond the marked playing area. The same dimensions apply to pitches used in continental UEFA competitions.

Rugby is another:

There is a range of acceptable dimensions for a rugby union pitch: the length of the field of play can vary between 94-100m, whilst the width can range from 68-70m. As we touched on above, the in-goal area at either end can be between 6 and 22m in length

AFL is another:

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It's also pure speculation that smaller pitches wouldn't suit Dublin. Dublin don't tend to shoot from range and tend to work the ball in close to the goals where the opposition commonly defend in numbers, something they've excelled at in the blanket defence era. You could argue that smaller pitches might actually suit them better.

Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 08/12/2020 07:41:11    2320085

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Ah sure split us in 4 and narrow the pitch.
Throw in eye patches for their good eye and maybe a Dr Martin on their strong foot.

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8756 - 08/12/2020 08:31:37    2320093

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sweet lord. Close this thread...

bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2503 - 08/12/2020 09:10:14    2320101

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Replying To bricktop:  "sweet lord. Close this thread..."
Ah No , sure its great crack

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2842 - 08/12/2020 09:45:31    2320108

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Replying To centerfield:  "No there should be a standard pitch size for all teams not a special one for the Dubs.

Mayo arent equally athletic.

Theres no issue in hurling 8 teams have a realistic chance in the hurling championship.Because skill is the biggest determinant on who wins not athleticism"
Mayo have been able to compete in the AI finals they have contested because their strength and conditioning is on a par with Dublin's. They arguably should have a least one of those finals.

Who are these 8 hurling teams that have a chance of an AI?
Galway , Limerick and Clare have one a piece in the last 25 plus years . Who are these teams you are suggesting have a realistic chance on any kind of a frequent basis ?

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 08/12/2020 10:48:11    2320137

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I've seen some ridiculous threads on here. This one is right up there

Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 533 - 08/12/2020 11:06:43    2320149

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I think the size of the field is something of a problem in why football is not as exciting now.

I don't really think it specifically favours Dublin but it just makes for a poor spectacle.

The scoring zone in football is really quite small relative to the pitch size so you end up with these situations where there's just a lot of uncontested dead space.

Teams don't push up particularly because why would they, there's not lots of value to having the ball in midfield.

So we end up with this slow paced basketball style game where there's no pressure in the ball until a teams inside the opposition 65.

It's always been the case but teams didn't often play as smartly as they do now and that's why the problem has only recently manifested.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4530 - 08/12/2020 11:18:30    2320154

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Replying To Onfor15:  "I've seen some ridiculous threads on here. This one is right up there"
Too right.

The pitch is too big for football and too small for hurling.

lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 475 - 08/12/2020 11:53:30    2320172

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Replying To catch22:  "Ok ,so Dublin can only play on certain size pitches now. Does that also apply to Mayo also as they are equally athletic and have picked players with the most athletic ability.
Should the teams that aren't able to compete with the Kilkenny's , Tipp's and Limericks be allowed have narrower goals and uprights so it gives them a better chance ?
Any other daft ideas ?"
stop robbing my idea i had already posted that suggestion re the narrower goal

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 08/12/2020 12:21:19    2320185

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Replying To perfect10:  "stop robbing my idea i had already posted that suggestion re the narrower goal"
No problem, you can have that back immediately.

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 08/12/2020 12:30:59    2320189

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Best to answer the question with a question. Are other county pitches too small?

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4745 - 08/12/2020 12:38:12    2320194

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Replying To centerfield:  "The simplest way to level the playing field in inter county football would be to set a max size on pitch width.Make it 80m max width for all intercounty matches. This would mean croke parks pitch width would be reduced by 10%.

Right now the game is too skewed towards having 20 athletes and therefore gives low population counties zero chance"
Was there not a time when there was a suggestion that the number on the team should be reduced to avoid the massed defense from Donegal etc. now your are suggesting to reduce the size of the pitch - ridiculous stuff

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1975 - 08/12/2020 13:01:10    2320205

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Replying To Joxer:  "Best to answer the question with a question. Are other county pitches too small?"
Maybe some are joxer but some pitches can't be made bigger due to logistics. Croke Park is big but not sure its the biggest. Players have said the surface in CP is different to other pitches too although I don't know reason why.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3931 - 08/12/2020 13:09:12    2320211

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Maybe some are joxer but some pitches can't be made bigger due to logistics. Croke Park is big but not sure its the biggest. Players have said the surface in CP is different to other pitches too although I don't know reason why."
That was tongue in cheek Mick but here's an excerpt from an Irish Times column from a few years back that stated that 7 stadia claim to use the max pitch size. Just goes to prove what bearing the surrounds have on it. I would have said that Dr Hyde was smaller.

"Only seven county grounds around the country then claim to utilise the maximum playing space of 13,050m²: Casement Park, Antrim; Cusack Park, Ennis; MacCumhail Park, Donegal, Pearse Stadium, Galway, O'Connor Park, Offaly, Semple Stadium, Tipperary and, you've guessed it, Dr Hyde Park, Roscommon."

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4745 - 08/12/2020 13:41:30    2320224

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Replying To catch22:  "Mayo have been able to compete in the AI finals they have contested because their strength and conditioning is on a par with Dublin's. They arguably should have a least one of those finals.

Who are these 8 hurling teams that have a chance of an AI?
Galway , Limerick and Clare have one a piece in the last 25 plus years . Who are these teams you are suggesting have a realistic chance on any kind of a frequent basis ?"
I think you will find Clare have won three in the last 25 years plus. Limerick may well have two by this weekend . Most casual observers would have given any of Galway Kilkenny Wexford Cork Clare Limerick Tipperary or Waterford a reasonable chance of winning at the beginning of the year. Win one and who knows what follows.

UtahBlaine (Galway) - Posts: 153 - 08/12/2020 22:36:19    2320502

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Wondering what all these threads will look like if Mayo win. Should be fun.

gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 318 - 08/12/2020 22:42:45    2320504

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Jasus COVID-19 is worse than I thought, it's making some go cuckoo. The pitch in Croke Park is too big, the grass is too green, the goal posts are too white. Seriously the only problem I have with Croke Park right now is they it's Too Friggin Empty.
God help us from people with too much time on their hands & access to a keyboard

cluichethar (Mayo) - Posts: 530 - 10/12/2020 01:03:25    2320937

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Replying To catch22:  "Mayo have been able to compete in the AI finals they have contested because their strength and conditioning is on a par with Dublin's. They arguably should have a least one of those finals.

Who are these 8 hurling teams that have a chance of an AI?
Galway , Limerick and Clare have one a piece in the last 25 plus years . Who are these teams you are suggesting have a realistic chance on any kind of a frequent basis ?"
There's a big difference between competing and winning. Have not win an AI since 51, I wouldn't slag another country for winning one in 25 years. On saying that I think Mayo will finally do it this year. Hopefully they do. In another sense it would be catastrophic to all the loyal supporters as from what I hear Sam can't leave Croke Park this year because of COVID.

Toman (Galway) - Posts: 622 - 10/12/2020 14:29:47    2321051

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I think the size of the field is something of a problem in why football is not as exciting now.

I don't really think it specifically favours Dublin but it just makes for a poor spectacle.

The scoring zone in football is really quite small relative to the pitch size so you end up with these situations where there's just a lot of uncontested dead space.

Teams don't push up particularly because why would they, there's not lots of value to having the ball in midfield.

So we end up with this slow paced basketball style game where there's no pressure in the ball until a teams inside the opposition 65.

It's always been the case but teams didn't often play as smartly as they do now and that's why the problem has only recently manifested."
This is an excellent post and it won't be long before teams realise that trying to force turnovers outside the scoring zone is not very efficient for the level of energy it wastes. What will eventually happen is teams who are in the lead will drop 15 players around the D, basketball style, protectecting the scoring zone and forgetting about man marking. The only time they will push up man on man will be for opposition kickouts.

I would love to see Mayo do something similar. Dublin want to shoot from around the D. They drag teams out to the wings and leave the D open. Defenses would be better off letting forwards go and staying close to the D.

With regards to the croke park, the dimensions aren't the issue. It's the surface is much quicker. It's harder and flatter with very little grass, it's almost like playing on concrete. This suits the pacey, more agile players who are less effective on a heavy pitch. Back in the early 2000s, croke parks surface was much heavier because the grass was longer and the ground was softer

97Cavans (Cavan) - Posts: 410 - 11/12/2020 13:29:36    2321341

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Replying To Kurt_Angle:  "Is there any other sport that doesn't have standardised pitch size.

Soccer is one:

The field of play should be 125m x 85m (136 x 93 yards), or a minimum of 120m x 80m (131 x 87 yards) and there must be a minimum of 1.5m of pitch beyond the marked playing area. The same dimensions apply to pitches used in continental UEFA competitions.

Rugby is another:

There is a range of acceptable dimensions for a rugby union pitch: the length of the field of play can vary between 94-100m, whilst the width can range from 68-70m. As we touched on above, the in-goal area at either end can be between 6 and 22m in length

AFL is another:

link

It's also pure speculation that smaller pitches wouldn't suit Dublin. Dublin don't tend to shoot from range and tend to work the ball in close to the goals where the opposition commonly defend in numbers, something they've excelled at in the blanket defence era. You could argue that smaller pitches might actually suit them better."
US NFL is the most standardised - must be 100 yards x 160 feet, with end zones 10 yards deep.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3246 - 11/12/2020 16:08:16    2321384

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