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Replying To jimbodub: "Croke Park will always be in Dublin
So that natural advantage will always be in place
It wasn't much of an advantage between 1996-2010 though
But that mirrored one of the worst periods in Dublin GAA history. It was up there as the worst period for not being capable of even reaching a final.
I think a lot of people became accustomed to that too from outside Dublin and they enjoyed it but the reality is that was not the norm whatsoever. It was an abnormal period given what had been achieved
But it wasn't going to last. Dublin reached multiple finals across the 70's, 80's and 90's
Then a very poor period came about as we all know.
But all the while Alan Brogan, Bernard, Diarmuid, P Flynn etc etc etc etc were sitting on as young Dublin club players wanting to change that. They were use to watching Dublin reach finals and win their share.
I could name 20+ Dublin players that the GDF had zero impact on, that all this success now seen was built on. We'd have won nothing without them, so GDF has little relevance to the rise of Dublin in 2010
We have always produced top end footballers so it's not surprising to see Dublin being able to bring in players to keep the show on the road.
But again
Dublin have pretry much invented a new style of football, new tactics to counter the blanket and it's become massively successful.
Yet what's the best most teams can offer? They are still stuck in 2014
No one can really match it at all, it's on par if not greater than the impact the blanket had on football. Not so long ago no one could figure out how to beat that.. the sky was falling down!
Dublin did. They have that style of play ingrained into their DNA at this stage. Tried, tested and perfected with 100% collective buy-in. They are mentality monsters.
Probably the most advanced system of play ever seen in football. The stats back up that claim.
Dublin despite losing so many legend status players have been able to absorb those loses, because our style of football is more advanced and they are further down the road
It's undoubtedly also helped that our main rivals have digressed in the same period. You won't see Dublin fast tracking minors etc. And expecting instant success.
So Dublin will stick to their guns and it's up to someone to beat them..
Dublin got over the blanket wall and once they climbed it they've not looked back." Good post Pal, i think that is the thing those brought up n the late 90s and 00s cant reconcile. That period coincided with one of Dublins worst ever periods of success in their history.
Dublin have always produced great players and successful teams, the role of honor speaks for itself and more so how we win, winning All Irelands playing more games, coming out out of what has been traditionally the toughest province.
Not saying their hasn't been great development work done in Dublin in recent years, but really there is no bigger fish in intercounty football then Dublin.
I find it pretty funny at times that a lot of the tears, suggest as if Dublin came from no where.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 04/12/2020 13:50:17
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Replying To arock: "Those figures are old hat, I saw an article in balls.ie word for word if you google the content it was originally written in 2015!!!! If Kerry want more money just get more players its a simple mathematical equation. If Dublin has 30% of the population of Ireland, if we have 30% of total GAA participation (which we don't I think its 20%) they are the facts of life. Dublin GAA is big business a club like Ballyboden or Na Fianna are the size of a small town. For an Adult player the average membership is €250+, Juvenile €155+, Mentor/Coach €130 these are figures more or less across the the City. If I look at some of the clubs in Kerry the membership fee wouldn't get you a decent meal." I'm not sure extra players is the answer arock as the argument was the money given out per registered player was different in every county. Dubs got over 270e per player Kerry 19e per player so that's no help. The money should be divided properly and fairly. If anything counties like Kerry Dublin Cork could do with less due to big sponsors and fundraisers etc. I am a member of two gaa Clubs (one in Dublin and one in Kerry) as non player. I pay more in Dublin cos my kids play for the Dublin club also.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3675 - 04/12/2020 13:52:42
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "I'm not sure extra players is the answer arock as the argument was the money given out per registered player was different in every county. Dubs got over 270e per player Kerry 19e per player so that's no help. The money should be divided properly and fairly. If anything counties like Kerry Dublin Cork could do with less due to big sponsors and fundraisers etc. I am a member of two gaa Clubs (one in Dublin and one in Kerry) as non player. I pay more in Dublin cos my kids play for the Dublin club also." Its a clear cut argument Mick - if games development funds are used for registered players.
It is however not, it is used to attract young people to Gaelic games, through the likes of Cul camps and school programmes. The registered player parameter isnt accurate.
In Dublin a hybrid system exists that creates a synergy between games development and exposure in schools and Cul camps and if kids want to go on a flow up programme with Clubs. The clubs themselves fund that portion of GDO, GDA, GPO's. I hear everyone, wanting a structure like Dublin, i see very few wanting their clubs to meet 50% of the bill.
The school and Cul camp/programme are funded by the Games development allocation. You can imagine the sheer scale of school children in Dublin.
Im of the firm opinion, we get per captia less in games development funding then other counties, ive posted before numbers to back that up.
But significantly when you look at Dublin history, its been marginalised for almost its entire history. It was funded like a county the same size of say, Kerry, Donegal and Mayo. When it has about 15 size the population. Its only since 05 and the Irish sports council grant that its been rectified to take account of Dublin population. Its quite remarkable |Dublin have been so successful historically in that context.
People who generally talk of GAA Funding dont usually understand it specifically as it relates to Dublin. Dublin take about 200k out of GAA funds, the Irish Sports Council, give a 1 mill contribution to Dublin GAA in recognition of its strategic importance and frankly the fact - the GAA cant afford to fund to fund Dublin per catia the way it does other counties. So in essence, Dublin funds are largely provided by the Irish Sports Council and its own club private funds. The GAA have nothing to redistribute.
Id happily own Croke Park being an advantage, id also acknowledge Dublin a giant commercially and only really Cork, Kerry and Mayo can compete financially.
But the games development money is an absolute myth. Ive yet to see one convincing well rational comment of analyses and ive looked at it great detail - id like to think unbiased.
I think besides, if recognition of Dublin's needs and funding started in 2005, kids born after 2005 would be maximum 15 now, Stepehn Cluxton made his debut in 2001, ill leave it there.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 04/12/2020 14:52:44
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Replying To TheUsername: "Its a clear cut argument Mick - if games development funds are used for registered players.
It is however not, it is used to attract young people to Gaelic games, through the likes of Cul camps and school programmes. The registered player parameter isnt accurate.
In Dublin a hybrid system exists that creates a synergy between games development and exposure in schools and Cul camps and if kids want to go on a flow up programme with Clubs. The clubs themselves fund that portion of GDO, GDA, GPO's. I hear everyone, wanting a structure like Dublin, i see very few wanting their clubs to meet 50% of the bill.
The school and Cul camp/programme are funded by the Games development allocation. You can imagine the sheer scale of school children in Dublin.
Im of the firm opinion, we get per captia less in games development funding then other counties, ive posted before numbers to back that up.
But significantly when you look at Dublin history, its been marginalised for almost its entire history. It was funded like a county the same size of say, Kerry, Donegal and Mayo. When it has about 15 size the population. Its only since 05 and the Irish sports council grant that its been rectified to take account of Dublin population. Its quite remarkable |Dublin have been so successful historically in that context.
People who generally talk of GAA Funding dont usually understand it specifically as it relates to Dublin. Dublin take about 200k out of GAA funds, the Irish Sports Council, give a 1 mill contribution to Dublin GAA in recognition of its strategic importance and frankly the fact - the GAA cant afford to fund to fund Dublin per catia the way it does other counties. So in essence, Dublin funds are largely provided by the Irish Sports Council and its own club private funds. The GAA have nothing to redistribute.
Id happily own Croke Park being an advantage, id also acknowledge Dublin a giant commercially and only really Cork, Kerry and Mayo can compete financially.
But the games development money is an absolute myth. Ive yet to see one convincing well rational comment of analyses and ive looked at it great detail - id like to think unbiased.
I think besides, if recognition of Dublin's needs and funding started in 2005, kids born after 2005 would be maximum 15 now, Stepehn Cluxton made his debut in 2001, ill leave it there." Honestly Username I don't know all the ins and outs of the money issue. I just see what I read and hear but one thing for sure is you are 100% correct on the time factor. All the money in the world did nt create this Dublin team. The money thing comes into play more for poorer counties where plays give up playing inter County because its costing them money on long travel for training games and time off work etc. I know players that were nt getting compensated and had to give up. That does nt happen with the top tier counties. When teams are at the top they will always have knockers trying to make little of their achievements. That's sad but that's life. Dublin are the team they are because they have a great panel of players that put in a great effort under shrewd management.Money can't buy players and money can't buy class.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3675 - 04/12/2020 15:32:38
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "Honestly Username I don't know all the ins and outs of the money issue. I just see what I read and hear but one thing for sure is you are 100% correct on the time factor. All the money in the world did nt create this Dublin team. The money thing comes into play more for poorer counties where plays give up playing inter County because its costing them money on long travel for training games and time off work etc. I know players that were nt getting compensated and had to give up. That does nt happen with the top tier counties. When teams are at the top they will always have knockers trying to make little of their achievements. That's sad but that's life. Dublin are the team they are because they have a great panel of players that put in a great effort under shrewd management.Money can't buy players and money can't buy class." Fair play Mick, i think every county has its own uniuqe challenges like you say, it could be migration - traveling etc. It could be population, it could be duel codes, in Dublin its certainly land, the cost of land and frankly the cost of everything up here is more expensive. While id accept each county has its own natural advantages too.
Perhaps we look at this to narrow and just jump on group think around these issues. As a community, we should all look at how we can solve them holistically. Take lads living in Cities etc who have moved from the western seaboard, id have no issue with Mayo, Kerry, Donegal or any other county having training camps using facilities in Dublin - im sure Galway, Limerick or Cork would be similar. Similarly in capital expenditure, there needs to be tolerance that a plot a land in Dublin , Galway or Limerick in going to cost many multiples of what say Currans or Garvaghy cost. i often in these debates, dont see those advantages and disadvantages balanced.
Each county has uniuqe challenges and advantages, perhaps its about strategic thinking in helping each other out rather then grinding the axe.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 04/12/2020 16:06:50
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Replying To TheUsername: "Fair play Mick, i think every county has its own uniuqe challenges like you say, it could be migration - traveling etc. It could be population, it could be duel codes, in Dublin its certainly land, the cost of land and frankly the cost of everything up here is more expensive. While id accept each county has its own natural advantages too.
Perhaps we look at this to narrow and just jump on group think around these issues. As a community, we should all look at how we can solve them holistically. Take lads living in Cities etc who have moved from the western seaboard, id have no issue with Mayo, Kerry, Donegal or any other county having training camps using facilities in Dublin - im sure Galway, Limerick or Cork would be similar. Similarly in capital expenditure, there needs to be tolerance that a plot a land in Dublin , Galway or Limerick in going to cost many multiples of what say Currans or Garvaghy cost. i often in these debates, dont see those advantages and disadvantages balanced.
Each county has uniuqe challenges and advantages, perhaps its about strategic thinking in helping each other out rather then grinding the axe." Yes indeed and funny you say that about training in Dublin. I know in thee late 70 s and early 80s Mícheál Ó Muircheartaigh used to train the Dublin based Kerry players together once or twice a week in Belfield i think. Now roads were worse then and it would prob take at least 2 hours longer to get home to Kerry than today.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3675 - 04/12/2020 18:18:45
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "Yes indeed and funny you say that about training in Dublin. I know in thee late 70 s and early 80s Mícheál Ó Muircheartaigh used to train the Dublin based Kerry players together once or twice a week in Belfield i think. Now roads were worse then and it would prob take at least 2 hours longer to get home to Kerry than today." Travel time was more like 3-4 hours longer back in the day mick.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 04/12/2020 20:13:11
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Replying To superbluedub: "Just seen this , here you go -:)
Great thats all we need now is a civil war Mick it didn't work out too well for Cork from what I remember.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 11831 - 27/11/2020 10:14:09" Where did you get that?
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 04/12/2020 20:24:59
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Travel time was more like 3-4 hours longer back in the day mick." The drive from killester, Dublin to Tralee back in the 70s- 80s took 51/2 - 6 hours.and it wasn't comfortable sitting in the back of an ould VW beetle.
avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1974 - 04/12/2020 20:32:23
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Replying To avonali: "The drive from killester, Dublin to Tralee back in the 70s- 80s took 51/2 - 6 hours.and it wasn't comfortable sitting in the back of an ould VW beetle." I remember it being 7 to 8 hours from Dingle back in the day, now that would be stopping for some grub as well, a killer journey
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 04/12/2020 20:53:38
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "I remember it being 7 to 8 hours from Dingle back in the day, now that would be stopping for some grub as well, a killer journey" Stop in Racket Hall ??
avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1974 - 04/12/2020 21:55:15
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Where did you get that?" Your words , I rest my case -:)
superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 04/12/2020 23:11:28
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Replying To avonali: "Stop in Racket Hall ??" Ya an odd time at the racket Hall and wheelers in limerick was another good spot, they did a great fry.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 05/12/2020 07:05:06
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Replying To TheUsername: "Its a clear cut argument Mick - if games development funds are used for registered players.
It is however not, it is used to attract young people to Gaelic games, through the likes of Cul camps and school programmes. The registered player parameter isnt accurate.
In Dublin a hybrid system exists that creates a synergy between games development and exposure in schools and Cul camps and if kids want to go on a flow up programme with Clubs. The clubs themselves fund that portion of GDO, GDA, GPO's. I hear everyone, wanting a structure like Dublin, i see very few wanting their clubs to meet 50% of the bill.
The school and Cul camp/programme are funded by the Games development allocation. You can imagine the sheer scale of school children in Dublin.
Im of the firm opinion, we get per captia less in games development funding then other counties, ive posted before numbers to back that up.
But significantly when you look at Dublin history, its been marginalised for almost its entire history. It was funded like a county the same size of say, Kerry, Donegal and Mayo. When it has about 15 size the population. Its only since 05 and the Irish sports council grant that its been rectified to take account of Dublin population. Its quite remarkable |Dublin have been so successful historically in that context.
People who generally talk of GAA Funding dont usually understand it specifically as it relates to Dublin. Dublin take about 200k out of GAA funds, the Irish Sports Council, give a 1 mill contribution to Dublin GAA in recognition of its strategic importance and frankly the fact - the GAA cant afford to fund to fund Dublin per catia the way it does other counties. So in essence, Dublin funds are largely provided by the Irish Sports Council and its own club private funds. The GAA have nothing to redistribute.
Id happily own Croke Park being an advantage, id also acknowledge Dublin a giant commercially and only really Cork, Kerry and Mayo can compete financially.
But the games development money is an absolute myth. Ive yet to see one convincing well rational comment of analyses and ive looked at it great detail - id like to think unbiased.
I think besides, if recognition of Dublin's needs and funding started in 2005, kids born after 2005 would be maximum 15 now, Stepehn Cluxton made his debut in 2001, ill leave it there." Best post I've read on HS in a long time, the last 4 sentences should be the killer line for a few posters on this forum but no doubt they'll disagree with you even though those 4 sentences put their agenda in the gutter, maybe its just low intelligence with a lot of these posters ive no problem with anyone having a point of view or an opinion but if you're going to be vociferous about a particular issue at least have the RELEVANT facts to back up your argument hence the lack of intelligence theory, great post Username well done.
DUBJOHN (Dublin) - Posts: 932 - 05/12/2020 10:37:50
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Replying To DUBJOHN: "Best post I've read on HS in a long time, the last 4 sentences should be the killer line for a few posters on this forum but no doubt they'll disagree with you even though those 4 sentences put their agenda in the gutter, maybe its just low intelligence with a lot of these posters ive no problem with anyone having a point of view or an opinion but if you're going to be vociferous about a particular issue at least have the RELEVANT facts to back up your argument hence the lack of intelligence theory, great post Username well done." Kids engage in sport meaningfully from about ten upwards. That would make a lot of the generation that starting benefitting from any funding 25+ now. Average age of the Dublin team outside of Cluxton is 26.5 as it happens.
Dublin embarked on an unprecedented run of U21 / U20 about five years after the funding tap was turned on, laying the foundations for the current team, they won four in ten years, having never previously won the competition. Yeah, pure coincidence!!
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 05/12/2020 13:26:54
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Replying To GeniusGerry: "Kids engage in sport meaningfully from about ten upwards. That would make a lot of the generation that starting benefitting from any funding 25+ now. Average age of the Dublin team outside of Cluxton is 26.5 as it happens.
Dublin embarked on an unprecedented run of U21 / U20 about five years after the funding tap was turned on, laying the foundations for the current team, they won four in ten years, having never previously won the competition. Yeah, pure coincidence!!" Excellent post Gerry, plus I thought the funding started in 2002 not 2005?
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 05/12/2020 14:29:22
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Replying To GeniusGerry: "Kids engage in sport meaningfully from about ten upwards. That would make a lot of the generation that starting benefitting from any funding 25+ now. Average age of the Dublin team outside of Cluxton is 26.5 as it happens.
Dublin embarked on an unprecedented run of U21 / U20 about five years after the funding tap was turned on, laying the foundations for the current team, they won four in ten years, having never previously won the competition. Yeah, pure coincidence!!" Dublin clubs have paid 50% of all costs involved
Think about that. No other County is coming close to matching that
It's incredible the amount of relevance given to teaching kids how to pick up a ball, run around a few cones or not kick it over their heads can do = Con O'Callaghan
There's so much more to their progress as players, feck sake lads come on. .
We all played, we know you can't train a donkey into being a race horse
We know the commitment and application doesn't just happen because of a semi funded Cul Camp when they are just children.
There's so much being discredited it's laughable
Even at that..
Come on.. think of the players it had no relevance tof whatsoever. There are loads .. but this is continually ignored as if all of the success is down to GDF.. its simply not true
Dublin Clubs produced brilliant players that didn't benefit from Cul camps.
Nothing would have been won without them.
If you want to debate at least have a bit of balance and stop purposely ignoring that absolute truth because it's hard to take it seriously.
No doubting Dublin have setup the structures but they'd be nothing without the families willingly sending their children to their local clubs wanting them to play Gaelic Games in both codes and that's girls and boys.
So you can cut out a lot of the funding straight off as little girls don't end up playing senior men's football..
The work being done is great and the volunteers are the driving force on the ground and the clubs themselves invest 50% of it all
It's not a faceless machine..
There's FAR more relevance to Dublin playing too many games in Croke Park as an unfair advantage
I'd agree to that but in Leinster you know why that happens. Leinster counties continually vote for it... its ridiculous
Dubs will play anywhere.
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 05/12/2020 15:08:32
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Replying To GeniusGerry: "Kids engage in sport meaningfully from about ten upwards. That would make a lot of the generation that starting benefitting from any funding 25+ now. Average age of the Dublin team outside of Cluxton is 26.5 as it happens.
Dublin embarked on an unprecedented run of U21 / U20 about five years after the funding tap was turned on, laying the foundations for the current team, they won four in ten years, having never previously won the competition. Yeah, pure coincidence!!" So Gerry
Dubs can produce players of the quality of
Cluxton
O'Carroll
Brennan
O'Sullivan
Cooper
Nolan
McCaffrey
Small
McMahon
Fitzsimons
Cullen
Bastick
MDMC
McCarthy
A Brogan
B Brogan
Kev Mc
Flynn
Andrews
Connolly
Rock
As just a selection *There are plenty more
None of the above would have had GDF as kids
So Dublin can produce such quality but then it can just stop and everything after is only down to GDF?
So explain the above players? Nothing would have been won without them.. zippo
You can try your best to discredit but there's nothing to your argument in relation to the players above
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 05/12/2020 15:34:44
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Replying To jimbodub: "So Gerry
Dubs can produce players of the quality of
Cluxton
O'Carroll
Brennan
O'Sullivan
Cooper
Nolan
McCaffrey
Small
McMahon
Fitzsimons
Cullen
Bastick
MDMC
McCarthy
A Brogan
B Brogan
Kev Mc
Flynn
Andrews
Connolly
Rock
As just a selection *There are plenty more
None of the above would have had GDF as kids
So Dublin can produce such quality but then it can just stop and everything after is only down to GDF?
So explain the above players? Nothing would have been won without them.. zippo
You can try your best to discredit but there's nothing to your argument in relation to the players above" Jim I clearly referred to the U21 teams that are underpinning the current team to refute the frankly laughable theory that nobody beyond infancy in 2005 could have possibly benefited from funding. Somebody actually wrote that above believe it or not, and then another posted came on and declared the debate over on the strength of it, hilariously questioning other posters intelligence despite missing the glaring mathematical flaw in the argument himself.
Nobody can say for sure the impact of the money. Everyone has their own theory, and I don't have any desire to debate it with you quite frankly. I find the argument that it's ok because the Dubs are paying half the cost really bizarre, but you've got to cling to something I guess.
Enjoy this evening and best of luck for the rest of the championship.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 05/12/2020 16:21:38
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Replying To jimbodub: "So Gerry
Dubs can produce players of the quality of
Cluxton
O'Carroll
Brennan
O'Sullivan
Cooper
Nolan
McCaffrey
Small
McMahon
Fitzsimons
Cullen
Bastick
MDMC
McCarthy
A Brogan
B Brogan
Kev Mc
Flynn
Andrews
Connolly
Rock
As just a selection *There are plenty more
None of the above would have had GDF as kids
So Dublin can produce such quality but then it can just stop and everything after is only down to GDF?
So explain the above players? Nothing would have been won without them.. zippo
You can try your best to discredit but there's nothing to your argument in relation to the players above" Another excellent post Jimbo, you're on fire today!
DUBJOHN (Dublin) - Posts: 932 - 05/12/2020 17:09:40
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