National Forum

The Future Of The Provincial Football Championships

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "After this year the Provincials have to stay, lot to be said for knockout football too, but that won't work either so we will have to figure something out,
the super 8's would have suited the likes of Kerry Tyrone and now ourselves in a normal year, hard one to figure out but I definitely think the Provincials have to stay, look what it means to Cavan and Tipp today, better than a 2 tier type All Ireland for sure."
I think the knockout element is what made it so special this year. Any other year Kerry, Tyrone and Donegal would have dusted themselves off and probably ended up in the semis anyway. Kerry lost to Cork a few times in Munster during the 00's only to come back and hammer them later in the Championship for example.

I'm not sure if this was a factor in some of the surprise results or not, but if we return to a back door / super 8 setup it'll be more of what we've seen in recent years in my opinion. I'd agree that this year has been thrilling but it's an anomaly in my opinion.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1950 - 22/11/2020 22:25:23    2313539

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Replying To KillingFields:  "You cant compare the premiership to the all ireland championship. Not near the same thing. How are they comparable?
The big thing thats needed is a change to the whole season structure. but you can still keep provincial competitions with that. Just have them as straight knockout but not directly as part of all ireland. have them stand alone.

a league based competition with playoffs at end should be a counties main competition of the year. what other sports have a straight knock out as their primary competition of the year?"
At least with other sports, players can be transferred from one region to the next. With the Dublin setup, they have a potential pick of over 4000 current adult playing footballers compare that to Westmeath with a potential pick of 800 current adult footballers. I don't see the reason why Dublin can't be split seeing that they are nearly a province in their own right. There is definitely county standard footballers in Dublin who will never play a county game

Updlocal (Meath) - Posts: 4 - 22/11/2020 22:58:14    2313558

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Whatever is or isn't done about provincial championships. For the love of God keep Dublin out of Ulster! The Ulster Championship has a great dynamic, great history, great rivalries etc. Why do we want to throw that all away by inviting a team from the middle of leinster in to it? And that's no disrespect to Dublin at all. The provinces have competed as they are for over 130 years. Don't go redrawing boundaries!

DL_Man (Donegal) - Posts: 89 - 22/11/2020 23:11:42    2313568

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Replying To Updlocal:  "Then what's your solution? something has to be done. If you take a look at the premiership, big cities have 4 or 5 teams. London has spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea and West Ham. What about all the good Dublin club players who would be on most county teams not getting within an asses roar of the current Dublin team."
What about them? There's Premier league footballers that'd find the Dublin S&C regime too tough. That's why they're so good and won't accept second best. Premier League teams are not counties.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 5950 - 22/11/2020 23:32:09    2313582

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Replying To maroondiesel:  "I said it before: Keep the 4 provinces or you will destroy what is good about the GAA: The joy to win the province is beyond great.
Championship must be a knockout competition, this is the only way to stop the likes of Dublin from winning 20 in a row."
Exactly. See what it means to the Tipp footballers today and you have folks who want it to end. Tipp would have been if in B championship because they are in Div 3.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 190 - 22/11/2020 23:35:33    2313584

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put dublin and kerry in the one province and the other teams bases on leaque format . maybe someone could list the teams for super province

lor12 (Wicklow) - Posts: 168 - 23/11/2020 00:05:46    2313595

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Replying To superbluedub:  "Send dubs to Ulster, and Tyrone and Antrim to Leinster"
jesus you might as well tog a few lads out from kilkenny and make a new provence with london and new york.

GameofTyronesIsBackhere (Tyrone) - Posts: 9 - 23/11/2020 00:45:12    2313600

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Definitely, keep provincial them open draw . Could be brilliant traveling all over the place..e.g. Dubs in Leitrim or Kerry in Casement."
Anyone in Casement would be great! :)

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 4121 - 23/11/2020 08:37:22    2313626

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Replying To KillingFields:  "You cant compare the premiership to the all ireland championship. Not near the same thing. How are they comparable?
The big thing thats needed is a change to the whole season structure. but you can still keep provincial competitions with that. Just have them as straight knockout but not directly as part of all ireland. have them stand alone.

a league based competition with playoffs at end should be a counties main competition of the year. what other sports have a straight knock out as their primary competition of the year?"
This is the best solution out there - hands down.
- Gives teams a defined season
- Competitive matches every weekend as teams are playing at their own level
- The provincial championships are still in place (impossible to remove and the root of all problems)
- Excitement of knockout at the end to reveal the All-Ireland Champions

People will say but you dont have this and you dont have that. No solution can meet all needs. This one is similar to team competition structures used across the world that have worked for many years. We seem to be the only sport constantly unhappy about the way we're set-up.

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1071 - 23/11/2020 08:53:18    2313630

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Gaelic Football should have two competitions where Dublin can annually showcase the way professionals can play Gaelic football. Dublin can invite teams from around the country to the capital for these exhibition games. The first humiliation can be done provincially and the second on an all island basis.
They could call them the Leinster Championship and All Ireland.

jonno (Kildare) - Posts: 204 - 23/11/2020 09:14:51    2313641

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Replying To GameofTyronesIsBackhere:  "jesus you might as well tog a few lads out from kilkenny and make a new provence with london and new york."
Have you heard of the sport called hurling? Not so long since Antrim and Galway both competed in the Leinster Championship.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 3748 - 23/11/2020 09:55:53    2313661

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At the end of the day the Gaa is a business. It was set up for sport and pleasure but it is now a money making business with officials getting paid and corporate sections etc. The gaa are not going to have straight knockout because they would lose revenue. The more games the more money.Knockout is defibately more exciting but I can't see it happening. Most things the gaa do is about money. Why did the gaa want dubs in Croker? Answer they can fill it 8 or 9 times out of ten. Even Mayo can't do that. Why did gaa want Mayo Kildare in Croker? Because they could fill it. Why did gaa keep Cork and Kerry apart for years in munster? Because they could charge full price for a final but could nt for an earlier round. The super 8 s etc and qualifiers were all about money. I know most posters on here did nt want a championship but we have had some great games and terrific excitement all produced so far by the so called weaker counties. Look at the excitement of Corks late goal and yesterday's joyous and gallant performances by Cavan and Tipp. Yesterday showed me the provincial have to stay in some shape or form but ko championship is so exciting. The championship needs change yes and I don't know the answer. Maybe a home and away type like championship. Yesterday will live long in the memory though so thanks you to Cork Donegal and especially Tipp and Cavan.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 574 - 23/11/2020 10:03:30    2313670

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Leinster championship not great at the moment but the GAA won't have a stand alone solution for Leinster only. Dublin are dominating but the provincial championships has positives for 3 of the 4 provinces, there is a good chance for quiet a few teams to win major honours. An open draw would remove this for many teams. This gives an incentive for players from more counties to keep committing and a better opportunity for their teams to develop.
Would an open draw championship which removes opportunities to win provincial titles spread the problems of the Leinster championship to the other provinces?.
This isn't to say we should not reform the system, we just need to think through what the reform will look like.
Ultimately I believe Dublin, with its 1.35 million population, are going to get stronger and in the medium term Dublin will end up being split into its constituent current administrative counties (funny thing is while Dublin is one of the traditional counties of Ireland it actually no longer strictly speaking exists, being abolished in 1994 as it's population was deemed to be to big for local government administration).

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 759 - 23/11/2020 11:10:56    2313781

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "I think the knockout element is what made it so special this year. Any other year Kerry, Tyrone and Donegal would have dusted themselves off and probably ended up in the semis anyway. Kerry lost to Cork a few times in Munster during the 00's only to come back and hammer them later in the Championship for example.

I'm not sure if this was a factor in some of the surprise results or not, but if we return to a back door / super 8 setup it'll be more of what we've seen in recent years in my opinion. I'd agree that this year has been thrilling but it's an anomaly in my opinion."
I kind of think the limited preparations and being played in less than perfect conditions were a huge levelling factor though too.

Also there's just a bit of variance. Shocks happen.

The big shock was Cork v Kerry.

Cavan v Donegal and Tipp v Cork is a small shock too. Things came together a bit for great stories.

Some people seem to be saying this season is proof that knockout the way to go.

I'm far from convinced. It was a unique championship this year.

The novelty factor and levelling factors added to it.

There's a lot still not to like about straight knockout provincials leading to semifinals.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3103 - 23/11/2020 12:38:36    2313872

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Replying To maroondiesel:  "I said it before: Keep the 4 provinces or you will destroy what is good about the GAA: The joy to win the province is beyond great.
Championship must be a knockout competition, this is the only way to stop the likes of Dublin from winning 20 in a row."
I don't get the logic here.

Dublin have Cavan now to overcome, their route to a 6 All Ireland has only gotten easier this year.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3103 - 23/11/2020 12:40:49    2313878

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Its clear that Leinster is the outlier with Dublin's dominance. Here is what is different in Leinster:

- No one currently believes they can beat Dublin. In all the other provinces you have at least 2 if not 3 teams who genuinely believe they will win it and mentally they are in the right place. Meath's performance was lacking any conviction which resulted in another stroll for the Dubs

- Why are Dublin so far ahead? It's very easy to just point to funding but it is a factor that has to be reviewed. One statement in John Connellan's tweet that stuck with me was the call to action for the GAA to help the other counties in the same fashion that the Dubs were assisted back in the early noughties. There is merit in this and I am sure Dubs would not dispute this. Dublin have used these resources brilliantly however and combining that with some of best players to play the game has resulted in their domination of Leinster and indeed Ireland.

While the Dubs should be commended other counties need to be given that opportunity or we risk losing youngsters to other sports outside of the capital as they see no chance of winning anything with the Dublin juggernaut in full flight

unclegerry (Mayo) - Posts: 1198 - 23/11/2020 14:22:17    2314007

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Replying To unclegerry:  "Its clear that Leinster is the outlier with Dublin's dominance. Here is what is different in Leinster:

- No one currently believes they can beat Dublin. In all the other provinces you have at least 2 if not 3 teams who genuinely believe they will win it and mentally they are in the right place. Meath's performance was lacking any conviction which resulted in another stroll for the Dubs

- Why are Dublin so far ahead? It's very easy to just point to funding but it is a factor that has to be reviewed. One statement in John Connellan's tweet that stuck with me was the call to action for the GAA to help the other counties in the same fashion that the Dubs were assisted back in the early noughties. There is merit in this and I am sure Dubs would not dispute this. Dublin have used these resources brilliantly however and combining that with some of best players to play the game has resulted in their domination of Leinster and indeed Ireland.

While the Dubs should be commended other counties need to be given that opportunity or we risk losing youngsters to other sports outside of the capital as they see no chance of winning anything with the Dublin juggernaut in full flight"
. . . . . . .i'm all right Jack attitude is clearly part of the problem, for that reason there will never be a solution to the obvious problem, no solution, no fix.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2160 - 23/11/2020 20:59:35    2314296

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