HoganStand GAA Football and Hurling

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Replying To Rolo2010: "Most kids in Offaly are not growing dreaming of playing rugby for Leinster. Every county in hurling competes in an All-Ireland competition. Liam McCarthy: Senior Joe McDonagh: Senior B Christy Ring: Intermediate Nicky Rackard: Junior A Lory Meagher: Junior B Football needs a tiered championship. 2 at least. Maybe 3 like the ladies' game. Kerry and Dublin have always dominated the game. They have won 50% of the the titles. Weaker counties need to accept that can't compete against the top teams in the country." It's not an All Ireland championship. Football championship is All Ireland because every county has a chance, no matter how small, of winning it. GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7342 - 16/11/2020 18:06:23 2310263 Link
Hasn't been a proper All Ireland in hurling for years. The MacCarthy cup is now an elite competition for the top Tier teams with B, C and D competitions for the lower tiers. Maybe it's time to remove the 'All Ireland' moniker from the equation? At least in the football every County gets a chance, realistic or not, to win the Sam Maguire making it a true All Ireland competition. Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 16/11/2020 18:28:11 2310279 Link
Replying To GreenandRed: "It's not an All Ireland championship. Football championship is All Ireland because every county has a chance, no matter how small, of winning it." It is. Every team has the oppurtunity to develop and move up the tiers. The single tier championship in football is dying and has been for quite some time. Hurling is a far better product at the moment and the tiered championship helps that. Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 738 - 16/11/2020 18:46:36 2310289 Link
Replying To KillingFields: "Saying its not the all ireland because many dont compete is nonsense. Its a tiered competition and where are you getting 80% from? By and large all through history most provinces havent been ridiculously competitive." There are 32 counties in Ireland, out of those 32 counties, only 9 are guaranteed to compete for the Liam McCarthy - 5 in Munster and 4 in Leinster. Now, how can you call it an All Ireland when 23 are excluded from the primary competition? The GAA have held exhibitions in Australia, America and God knows where else to promote the game of hurling. It would serve them better to help out Offaly and other counties by creating a model that assists the weaker become stronger. How many weak teams have progressed to elite level since the tiered competition was introduced? wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1909 - 16/11/2020 19:09:05 2310313 Link
Replying To Offside_Rule: "Hasn't been a proper All Ireland in hurling for years. The MacCarthy cup is now an elite competition for the top Tier teams with B, C and D competitions for the lower tiers. Maybe it's time to remove the 'All Ireland' moniker from the equation? At least in the football every County gets a chance, realistic or not, to win the Sam Maguire making it a true All Ireland competition." As it should be. The Donegal hurlers shouldn't be in the Liam McCarthy. 30 point beatings will do nothing for development. Counties should be competing at their own level like the clubs. Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 738 - 16/11/2020 19:12:04 2310315 Link
Replying To Offside_Rule: "Hasn't been a proper All Ireland in hurling for years. The MacCarthy cup is now an elite competition for the top Tier teams with B, C and D competitions for the lower tiers. Maybe it's time to remove the 'All Ireland' moniker from the equation? At least in the football every County gets a chance, realistic or not, to win the Sam Maguire making it a true All Ireland competition." Each of the 32 counties gets a chance to win the All Ireland in Gaelic football, but Kilkenny don't field a team. New York and London also compete, maybe we should call it the world series like the yanks do with baseball. Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2746 - 16/11/2020 19:19:06 2310317 Link
Replying To GreenandRed: "It's not an All Ireland championship. Football championship is All Ireland because every county has a chance, no matter how small, of winning it." So your club cant win a mayo football title because not every club competes in the senior championship? etc It is an all ireland championship. To say otherwise is ridiculous. KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3505 - 16/11/2020 19:32:36 2310318 Link
Replying To wicklowsupport: "There are 32 counties in Ireland, out of those 32 counties, only 9 are guaranteed to compete for the Liam McCarthy - 5 in Munster and 4 in Leinster. Now, how can you call it an All Ireland when 23 are excluded from the primary competition? The GAA have held exhibitions in Australia, America and God knows where else to promote the game of hurling. It would serve them better to help out Offaly and other counties by creating a model that assists the weaker become stronger. How many weak teams have progressed to elite level since the tiered competition was introduced?" Leinster will have 6 teams next year. The other 23 are not excluded. You obviously do not understand the concept of a tiered competition. Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 738 - 16/11/2020 19:33:04 2310319 Link
Replying To wicklowsupport: "There are 32 counties in Ireland, out of those 32 counties, only 9 are guaranteed to compete for the Liam McCarthy - 5 in Munster and 4 in Leinster. Now, how can you call it an All Ireland when 23 are excluded from the primary competition? The GAA have held exhibitions in Australia, America and God knows where else to promote the game of hurling. It would serve them better to help out Offaly and other counties by creating a model that assists the weaker become stronger. How many weak teams have progressed to elite level since the tiered competition was introduced?" They arent excluded though. There is promotion and relegation between the various competitions is there not? The 23 counties arent excluded from the liam mccarthy. What model would assist the weaker better than the current model? How would using what format gaelic football uses for the provincial and all ireland competiions help teams progress? KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3505 - 16/11/2020 19:36:36 2310322 Link
Replying To Offside_Rule: "Hasn't been a proper All Ireland in hurling for years. The MacCarthy cup is now an elite competition for the top Tier teams with B, C and D competitions for the lower tiers. Maybe it's time to remove the 'All Ireland' moniker from the equation? At least in the football every County gets a chance, realistic or not, to win the Sam Maguire making it a true All Ireland competition." Over the last 20 years, 7 different counties have won the Liam MacCarthy Cup, 8 counties have won the Sam Maguire Cup. Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2458 - 16/11/2020 19:55:25 2310338 Link
Replying To KillingFields: "They arent excluded though. There is promotion and relegation between the various competitions is there not? The 23 counties arent excluded from the liam mccarthy. What model would assist the weaker better than the current model? How would using what format gaelic football uses for the provincial and all ireland competiions help teams progress?" So how does a team from the Christy ring get into the Liam McCarthy. If, for example, Kerry win the Christy Ring, can they play in the Munster championship next year? Also, people say what can the GAA do for the likes of Offaly or Antrim? Do what they did for hurling in Dublin. Invest in the coaching in these counties. Dublin have replaced Offay in the Leinster pecking order from the 90s. And no, this is not a pop at Dublin. wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1909 - 16/11/2020 20:39:10 2310374 Link
Replying To wicklowsupport: "There are 32 counties in Ireland, out of those 32 counties, only 9 are guaranteed to compete for the Liam McCarthy - 5 in Munster and 4 in Leinster. Now, how can you call it an All Ireland when 23 are excluded from the primary competition? The GAA have held exhibitions in Australia, America and God knows where else to promote the game of hurling. It would serve them better to help out Offaly and other counties by creating a model that assists the weaker become stronger. How many weak teams have progressed to elite level since the tiered competition was introduced?" Thats not really true. In a normal year, the Joe McDonagh teams can actually compete for the Liam McCarthy, the 2 finalists go into the knockout stages. So its really 15 teams that can compete for the AI each year, and I think that goes up to 17 next year. But as far as helping counties become stronger, its kind of a moot point what structure is used at senior level, its at underage level where that transformation will happen. Senior teams just bear the fruits of what happens at underage. You're seeing Leinster teams (Laois, Westmeath) competing at the top level now, and they've been playing the top Leinster teams at underage for years. Kerry are finally back playing at minor and U20 in Munster, which really is necessary if they're going to ever be competitive in a Senior Munster championship. You can't expect players to go from playing in B and C minor/U20 competitions, to then jump to playing the top teams at senior, when they've never played them underage. I think there's an argument to be made for abolishing the provincial system at underage, in favor of something more inclusive. Could the 3 tiered model thats currently being used for the Leinster minor hurling championship, be a model for an All-Ireland minor hurling championship, that included all teams from all provinces? Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 16/11/2020 20:46:01 2310385 Link
Replying To Rolo2010: "As it should be. The Donegal hurlers shouldn't be in the Liam McCarthy. 30 point beatings will do nothing for development. Counties should be competing at their own level like the clubs." I'm not saying the format isn't right and agree the likes of ourselves have been at our right level now for a while. Just saying the MacCarthy Cup isn't an All Ireland competition in the same way the baseball isn't a World Series. Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 16/11/2020 21:16:02 2310409 Link
Replying To wicklowsupport: "So how does a team from the Christy ring get into the Liam McCarthy. If, for example, Kerry win the Christy Ring, can they play in the Munster championship next year? Also, people say what can the GAA do for the likes of Offaly or Antrim? Do what they did for hurling in Dublin. Invest in the coaching in these counties. Dublin have replaced Offay in the Leinster pecking order from the 90s. And no, this is not a pop at Dublin." Get promoted to Joe McDonagh and then Liam. Kerry goes into Leinster if they win this year. Antrim recently recieved 1 million in funding, Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 738 - 16/11/2020 22:10:03 2310432 Link
Replying To Cockney_Cat: "Over the last 20 years, 7 different counties have won the Liam MacCarthy Cup, 8 counties have won the Sam Maguire Cup." Over the last 10 years, 5 different counties have won the Liam MacCarthy Cup, 4 counties have won the Sam Maguire Cup. keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 16/11/2020 22:11:18 2310433 Link
Replying To Marlon_JD: "Thats not really true. In a normal year, the Joe McDonagh teams can actually compete for the Liam McCarthy, the 2 finalists go into the knockout stages. So its really 15 teams that can compete for the AI each year, and I think that goes up to 17 next year. But as far as helping counties become stronger, its kind of a moot point what structure is used at senior level, its at underage level where that transformation will happen. Senior teams just bear the fruits of what happens at underage. You're seeing Leinster teams (Laois, Westmeath) competing at the top level now, and they've been playing the top Leinster teams at underage for years. Kerry are finally back playing at minor and U20 in Munster, which really is necessary if they're going to ever be competitive in a Senior Munster championship. You can't expect players to go from playing in B and C minor/U20 competitions, to then jump to playing the top teams at senior, when they've never played them underage. I think there's an argument to be made for abolishing the provincial system at underage, in favor of something more inclusive. Could the 3 tiered model thats currently being used for the Leinster minor hurling championship, be a model for an All-Ireland minor hurling championship, that included all teams from all provinces?" I think a U20 C competition exists but finding information about this competitions is impossible. Typical of the GAA. Maybe it has been scrapped but Donegal won it in 2016. Fixtures Review proposed abolishing provincial structure for minor and U20 in football. A tiered structure would work at underage level. Donegal's minors play in the Ulster Minor Shield but a bigger competition with other teams at our level would be great. Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 738 - 16/11/2020 23:28:42 2310455 Link
Replying To Offside_Rule: "I'm not saying the format isn't right and agree the likes of ourselves have been at our right level now for a while. Just saying the MacCarthy Cup isn't an All Ireland competition in the same way the baseball isn't a World Series." That's pretty nonsensical reasoning though. Does that mean Liverpool aren't English champions because about 5'000 english clubs aren't part of the premier league? Is John Catlin not the Irish Open champion because I didn't play? All-Ireland doesn't literally mean that everyone in Ireland takes part in the same year. It means a competition to determine the champion of All of Ireland, as opposed to being champions of a a subsection of Ireland, such as a province, or county. CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1643 - 16/11/2020 23:35:52 2310457 Link
Replying To Rolo2010: "Get promoted to Joe McDonagh and then Liam. Kerry goes into Leinster if they win this year. Antrim recently recieved 1 million in funding," £1m pledged to be released over 5 years with each payment being dependent on results on the investments: New GAA President John Horan and the Association's newly installed Director-General Tom Ryan have cautioned that Croke Park's £1m investment will need to yield results over the coming years. Speaking to The Irish News at last week's launch in Belfast, Horan said: "There has to be results and there has to be outcomes to the investment", while Ryan added at Wednesday's media briefing that Croke Park would be watching "carefully" how the project is progressing. So in other words, £200,000 per year being invested in Antrim and on the proviso we meet the expectations of those in HQ who hold the purse strings. Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 17/11/2020 08:34:36 2310488 Link
Replying To GreenandRed: "It's not an All Ireland championship. Football championship is All Ireland because every county has a chance, no matter how small, of winning it." You should mention that to the locals the next time you are in Kilkenny. Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4318 - 17/11/2020 08:34:57 2310489 Link
Replying To Oldtourman: "You should mention that to the locals the next time you are in Kilkenny." Nobody is stopping Kilkenny from entering a football team if they want to as far as I'm aware SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2385 - 17/11/2020 11:40:21 2310550 Link