National Forum

Bloody Sunday

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Replying To browncows:  "You are correct in that they do receive billions of pounds. But! The six counties of Ireland that you refer to existed and survived long before partition, so obviously your knowledge of history is time limited. A very significant amount of billions go to paying all the retired civil servants from a particular background. Bloodyban obviously did not do any geography - 32 counties in the identity know as Ireland.

The country will be united but when nobody knows except it may be sooner than most expect. On the issue of cost! most informed folk would know that the cost will be marginal. The German minister who oversaw unification carried out a detailed analysis on that topic and concluded that the cost will be very little (and not billions) with a significant cost benefit within a couple of years. Do you not think that the people of the six counties are as able to work productively as the folk who we have welcomed into the country from the various European countries and beyond."
"so obviously your knowledge of history is time limited."

Er... no. I was stating a fact about the status quo. As for the rest of your ridiculous and nonsensical ramblings, I haven't the time nor willpower to address them. I suggest you try an educate yourself about the realities and realpolitik of the 21st century, especially with regards to Ireland.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1118 - 11/11/2020 17:48:41    2307696

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What a despicable act perpetrated on sportsmen and fans,hard to believe it happened,so called British civilization.No wonder most of us could never support a team representing England and gleefully rejoice when they are beaten.I could never forgive and forget such an act.

ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 438 - 11/11/2020 17:49:02    2307698

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Replying To tireoghainabu:  "Why bring SF into the conversation.Do you assume that because I am from the six counties and support Irish unity that I vote SF?"
Wouldn't worry to much about what the Royal correspondent says. Billy much have sown his wild oats in 1690 when he was down that part of Ireland although I thought Billy batted for the other side.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 280 - 11/11/2020 18:16:23    2307708

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Replying To Breezy:  "We would not be an economic powerhouse and I would much rather be close to Europe and on the fringe of those loons in the US"
I do not want to be closer to Europe. We have more in common with the US than mainland Europe. European identity doesn't exist and a federal Europe would be bad for Ireland.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 204 - 11/11/2020 18:19:50    2307713

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Replying To royaldunne:  "And yet you vote."
Yes, I do vote but the choices are pretty poor.

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2193 - 11/11/2020 18:32:44    2307718

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Replying To ONdeDITCH:  "What a despicable act perpetrated on sportsmen and fans,hard to believe it happened,so called British civilization.No wonder most of us could never support a team representing England and gleefully rejoice when they are beaten.I could never forgive and forget such an act."
Really, hard to believe? It was a war, shit like this happens in every war; including the Irish Civil War. Spare us your faux outrage and crocodile tears.

Bloody Sunday happened a hundred year's ago and it's right it should be remembered. But, there is no reason to beat and berate modern day British people over it. It was nothing to do with them.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1118 - 11/11/2020 18:42:29    2307723

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Replying To cavanman47:  "Laying of the wreath has been happing for a good few years now.

It's all part of the reconciliation that will be needed to achieve the ultimate goal any Irish man/woman worth their salt should be striving for."
A good few years, so out of 100 years it's happening a good few years. Don't make a show of it, everywhere you look it's poppy, poppy poppy. People looking to be seen. As for reconciliation is an excuse to rub people's noses in Britishness. britain doesn't have much to be proud off.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 280 - 11/11/2020 18:55:25    2307729

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Replying To royaldunne:  "Well if sf got into power they'd run out of here very quickly. Thankfully that's not gonna happen anytime soon. It seems that also is the main concern of reunification, a sf gov, probably propped up by dup.
Majority in south would much prefer to have sdlp and moderate unionists in ascendency in north when unity happens. The fear of both extremists is real."
Sooner than you think. Sinn Féin would be a stronger party than people realise. Stronger than FF with Brian Cowan who wouldn't accept the Irish people's vote and made them vote again until they got it right.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 280 - 11/11/2020 19:20:00    2307744

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Replying To Saynothing:  "A good few years, so out of 100 years it's happening a good few years. Don't make a show of it, everywhere you look it's poppy, poppy poppy. People looking to be seen. As for reconciliation is an excuse to rub people's noses in Britishness. britain doesn't have much to be proud off."
In fairness neither does nothern ire.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17038 - 11/11/2020 19:32:34    2307753

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Any man who doesn't want Ireland reunited isn't much of an Irishman in my opinion, Brexit has moved that day closer and I hope there is a border poll within the next 5 to 10 years.
Just look at the Covid pandemic as an example, it could be handled so much better with an all Ireland approach,
a partitioned Ireland makes no sense and never did, it was a cop out at the time and was never meant to last.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 1087 - 11/11/2020 19:33:42    2307754

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Replying To Saynothing:  "A good few years, so out of 100 years it's happening a good few years. Don't make a show of it, everywhere you look it's poppy, poppy poppy. People looking to be seen. As for reconciliation is an excuse to rub people's noses in Britishness. britain doesn't have much to be proud off."
And what do you to have 'to be proud off'?

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1118 - 11/11/2020 19:51:54    2307760

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "Any man who doesn't want Ireland reunited isn't much of an Irishman in my opinion, Brexit has moved that day closer and I hope there is a border poll within the next 5 to 10 years.
Just look at the Covid pandemic as an example, it could be handled so much better with an all Ireland approach,
a partitioned Ireland makes no sense and never did, it was a cop out at the time and was never meant to last."
The biggest obstacle to a ui is both sf and dup. Normal people want nothing to do with either. And sf antics are setting that back. They quite happy with partition to tax dodge on €4 million, and use the 26 and 6 bs. Left a bad taste , also the 10k. For ted effort of the money was just resting in my account

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17038 - 11/11/2020 19:57:58    2307763

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Replying To royaldunne:  "In fairness neither does nothern ire."
Couldn't agree more - "n Ireland" since inception has nothing to be proud of.

tireoghainabu (Tyrone) - Posts: 92 - 11/11/2020 19:59:16    2307764

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Replying To galwayford:  "FF crashed the economy in 2002-2008, Fine Gael crashed the economy over Covid in 2020, yes there was a world wide property crash in 2008, and a world wide pandemic in 2020. There was also an economic crash in the 80's. Under mainly Fine Gael. I don't think S.f could do any worse to be honest. S.F are right when they say it will take an all island approach to rejuvenate the economy post covid."
You put that to any FFer or FGer and the deflection shields go into overtime.

Dubsfan28 (Dublin) - Posts: 2362 - 11/11/2020 20:03:42    2307767

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Replying To browncows:  "Most parties look after themselves first and every thing else is secondary. FG (with some help from FF) are in power for last 10 years did great work with the children's hospital, building it in a location that you cannot get in or out off. The cost stands at 2 billion plus and rising, the're still not aware that its doctors, nurses and equipment you require, not a fancy building. The bought a very large printer at 1m euros and had to get the house knocked down to bring it inside-they still have not got it working as it appears that it takes a two week course to operate it. I just wonder do the think the printer is some type of moon rocket!-rocket science comes to mind. These guys think that the're doing a great job as does a few posters and that's fine. They have increased employment though-with all the spin doctors hired!."
But but but SF

Dubsfan28 (Dublin) - Posts: 2362 - 11/11/2020 20:06:08    2307769

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Replying To bloodyban:  "I think 'unnecessary' is the right word. Northern Ireland has developed as a separate entity. Its natural political development is in its own space. I dont think Northern Ireland coming into a United Ireland is going to help anybody. Its better off getting on with things the way they are or striking g out on its own with Help from us and the rest of the UK."
Irish unity is inevitable and the two states that are currently involved in propping it up as a subsidised statelet need to prepare for unity with realistic maturity

The 2011 census recorded the Protestant population at 48‰ and Catholics at 45‰.

In 2000/01, 50.7‰ of all primary school registrations were Catholic and 42‰ Protestant. By 2019 that figure had reduced to 33‰ Protestant

It has been suggested by those who monitor social trends that Catholics will out number Protestants by 2021. Within a year or so

Irish unity will be decided by the people within the six counties. You will not hear this mentioned within unionism who are grasping at a no deal brexit to somehow strengthen "the union". Both governments and communities need to prepare for the inevitable in our lifetimes

mhunicean_abu (Monaghan) - Posts: 807 - 11/11/2020 20:17:11    2307774

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I think 'unnecessary' is the right word. Northern Ireland has developed as a separate entity. Its natural political development is in its own space. I dont think Northern Ireland coming into a United Ireland is going to help anybody. Its better off getting on with things the way they are or striking g out on its own with Help from us and the rest of the UK.
bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1303 - 11/11/2020 11:03:59

You are correct in that they do receive billions of pounds. But! The six counties of Ireland that you refer to existed and survived long before partition, so obviously your knowledge of history is time limited. A very significant amount of billions go to paying all the retired civil servants from a particular background. Bloodyban obviously did not do any geography - 32 counties in the identity know as Ireland.

The country will be united but when nobody knows except it may be sooner than most expect. On the issue of cost! most informed folk would know that the cost will be marginal. The German minister who oversaw unification carried out a detailed analysis on that topic and concluded that the cost will be very little (and not billions) with a significant cost benefit within a couple of years. Do you not think that the people of the six counties are as able to work productively as the folk who we have welcomed into the country from the various European countries and beyond.
browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2179 - 11/11/2020 14:26:57

Thankfully you are in the minority as most reasonable people see re-unification as inevitable in the not too distant future. The six county state is a failed entity and nothing will ever change that. The new republic would be an economic powerhouse on the fringe of Europe and close ties to America.
tireoghainabu (Tyrone) - Posts: 88 - 11/11/2020 14:27:46

FF crashed the economy in 2002-2008, Fine Gael crashed the economy over Covid in 2020, yes there was a world wide property crash in 2008, and a world wide pandemic in 2020. There was also an economic crash in the 80's. Under mainly Fine Gael. I don't think S.f could do any worse to be honest. S.F are right when they say it will take an all island approach to rejuvenate the economy post covid.
galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 1907 - 11/11/2020 15:53:44

I do not want to be closer to Europe. We have more in common with the US than mainland Europe. European identity doesn't exist and a federal Europe would be bad for Ireland.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 128 - 11/11/2020 18:19:50

Any man who doesn't want Ireland reunited isn't much of an Irishman in my opinion, Brexit has moved that day closer and I hope there is a border poll within the next 5 to 10 years.
Just look at the Covid pandemic as an example, it could be handled so much better with an all Ireland approach,
a partitioned Ireland makes no sense and never did, it was a cop out at the time and was never meant to last.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 1011 - 11/11/2020 19:33:42

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1662 - 11/11/2020 20:34:13    2307779

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Replying To royaldunne:  "In fairness neither does nothern ire."
Meath twinned with Finchley. Did I see that on a sign?

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 280 - 11/11/2020 20:35:36    2307780

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I think 'unnecessary' is the right word. Northern Ireland has developed as a separate entity. Its natural political development is in its own space. I dont think Northern Ireland coming into a United Ireland is going to help anybody. Its better off getting on with things the way they are or striking g out on its own with Help from us and the rest of the UK.
bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1303 - 11/11/2020 11:03:59
Well its not going to go out on its own or come into a united Ireland

You are correct in that they do receive billions of pounds. But! The six counties of Ireland that you refer to existed and survived long before partition, so obviously your knowledge of history is time limited. A very significant amount of billions go to paying all the retired civil servants from a particular background. Bloodyban obviously did not do any geography - 32 counties in the identity know as Ireland.

The country will be united but when nobody knows except it may be sooner than most expect. On the issue of cost! most informed folk would know that the cost will be marginal. The German minister who oversaw unification carried out a detailed analysis on that topic and concluded that the cost will be very little (and not billions) with a significant cost benefit within a couple of years. Do you not think that the people of the six counties are as able to work productively as the folk who we have welcomed into the country from the various European countries and beyond.
browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2179 - 11/11/2020 14:26:57
Where does all the money for services, welfare etc come from needed if Northern Ireland was to join the south. Do you have a link to what that german minister said?
A report by Trinity College Dublin academics models unification as causing a dramatic fall in the standard of living across the entire island.
`The Northern Ireland ­Economy: Problems and Prospects', by economists John Fitzgerald and Edgar LW Morgenroth, notes that the north relies on an around €10billion UK subsidy to prop up the economy

Thankfully you are in the minority as most reasonable people see re-unification as inevitable in the not too distant future. The six county state is a failed entity and nothing will ever change that. The new republic would be an economic powerhouse on the fringe of Europe and close ties to America.
tireoghainabu (Tyrone) - Posts: 88 - 11/11/2020 14:27:46
What evidence exists that suggests Ireland if united would be an economic powerhouse? North is already heavily subcidised by the UK government so Dublin would have to take on that burden then

FF crashed the economy in 2002-2008, Fine Gael crashed the economy over Covid in 2020, yes there was a world wide property crash in 2008, and a world wide pandemic in 2020. There was also an economic crash in the 80's. Under mainly Fine Gael. I don't think S.f could do any worse to be honest. S.F are right when they say it will take an all island approach to rejuvenate the economy post covid.
galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 1907 - 11/11/2020 15:53:44
You cant say Fine Gael did anything to crash the economy over covid.

I do not want to be closer to Europe. We have more in common with the US than mainland Europe. European identity doesn't exist and a federal Europe would be bad for Ireland.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 128 - 11/11/2020 18:19:50
Why would you not want to be closer to our close neighbours and far more important trading partners where growth can be much higher than the US.

Any man who doesn't want Ireland reunited isn't much of an Irishman in my opinion, Brexit has moved that day closer and I hope there is a border poll within the next 5 to 10 years.
Just look at the Covid pandemic as an example, it could be handled so much better with an all Ireland approach,
a partitioned Ireland makes no sense and never did, it was a cop out at the time and was never meant to last.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 1011 - 11/11/2020 19:33:42
No chance of that happening in 5-10 years and a united ireland will cost everyone in the short and long term.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1662 - 11/11/2020 20:39:47    2307782

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https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2020/1111/1177535-dublin-bridge/

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3309 - 11/11/2020 20:42:28    2307783

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