National Forum

Knockout Championship.

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "Every team gets a second chance (except this year). Or are you referring to the GAA's plan to take Div 3 and 4 teams out of the qualifiers? They were brought in because the old straight knockout system was stale and fans were losing interest. We aren't returning to the old system."
" We aren't returning to the old system". - - Your probably right, but it's not the way forward in my view in finding a way to make the weaker counties more competitive..

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2310 - 12/11/2020 21:13:36    2308178

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Replying To supersub15:  "" We aren't returning to the old system". - - Your probably right, but it's not the way forward in my view in finding a way to make the weaker counties more competitive.."
Returning to straight knockout isn't the way forward either. Weaker counties are rarely competitive and that was the case under straight knockout as well. You only have to look up the list of winners of the Provincials and the All-Ireland.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 263 - 12/11/2020 21:42:51    2308183

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "Every team gets a second chance (except this year). Or are you referring to the GAA's plan to take Div 3 and 4 teams out of the qualifiers? They were brought in because the old straight knockout system was stale and fans were losing interest. We aren't returning to the old system."
Of the 12 teams left in the championship in 2020, only 4 are playing in Division of National Football League next year, 6 are teams from next years division 2 and two are teams from next years division 3. So based on the new proposed system two teams who have made it to the last 12 this years All-Ireland wouldn't be able to play in the top tier championship.

Meathball (Meath) - Posts: 45 - 12/11/2020 22:26:26    2308200

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Replying To Meathball:  "Of the 12 teams left in the championship in 2020, only 4 are playing in Division of National Football League next year, 6 are teams from next years division 2 and two are teams from next years division 3. So based on the new proposed system two teams who have made it to the last 12 this years All-Ireland wouldn't be able to play in the top tier championship."
The new system is being brought in alongside the qualifiers so it can't be compared to this year. The SFs in Ulster and Leinster still have to be played. I don't support it anyway so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make in response to my previous comment about straight knockout.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 263 - 12/11/2020 23:26:52    2308216

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Replying To Meathball:  "Of the 12 teams left in the championship in 2020, only 4 are playing in Division of National Football League next year, 6 are teams from next years division 2 and two are teams from next years division 3. So based on the new proposed system two teams who have made it to the last 12 this years All-Ireland wouldn't be able to play in the top tier championship."
excellent point

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 1896 - 12/11/2020 23:47:54    2308221

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "excellent point"
Does that speak for or against the back door system., in your opinion.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2310 - 13/11/2020 09:44:01    2308253

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Replying To Meathball:  "Of the 12 teams left in the championship in 2020, only 4 are playing in Division of National Football League next year, 6 are teams from next years division 2 and two are teams from next years division 3. So based on the new proposed system two teams who have made it to the last 12 this years All-Ireland wouldn't be able to play in the top tier championship."
Yeah I really hate the idea of grading a knockout style championship.

If you're playing knockout championship, 1 round takes you down from 16 to 32. I don't see a problem with just having 1 extra round.

If the competition does need to be tiered, then it should involve groups stages at each level and try to give teams a proper championship season at all levels.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3387 - 13/11/2020 09:54:09    2308257

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Replying To supersub15:  "Does that speak for or against the back door system., in your opinion."
In my mind it speaks against the Tailteann cup and the reduced numbers in the qualifiers.

I do hate that change myself for a few reasons.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3387 - 13/11/2020 10:23:35    2308268

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Replying To Meathball:  "Of the 12 teams left in the championship in 2020, only 4 are playing in Division of National Football League next year, 6 are teams from next years division 2 and two are teams from next years division 3. So based on the new proposed system two teams who have made it to the last 12 this years All-Ireland wouldn't be able to play in the top tier championship."
Tipperary are one of them Division 3 teams, as they have made their provincial final they wouldnt enter the Tailteann anyway. Neither would Cavan if they beat Down this weekend. It's one of the problems of the Tailteann cup, there is no way of knowing how many teams will be competing in it.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2584 - 13/11/2020 12:29:20    2308312

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Replying To Soma:  "Tipperary are one of them Division 3 teams, as they have made their provincial final they wouldnt enter the Tailteann anyway. Neither would Cavan if they beat Down this weekend. It's one of the problems of the Tailteann cup, there is no way of knowing how many teams will be competing in it."
One of the other main problems with the Tailteann cup is that by definition, its a competition for losers. i.e. You gain entry to it by loosing!

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1104 - 13/11/2020 13:00:14    2308324

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Yeah I really hate the idea of grading a knockout style championship.

If you're playing knockout championship, 1 round takes you down from 16 to 32. I don't see a problem with just having 1 extra round.

If the competition does need to be tiered, then it should involve groups stages at each level and try to give teams a proper championship season at all levels."
They want to keep the League as is. I don't think a second summer league would have any appeal but having 2 tiers of 16 split into 4 groups of 4. Every team gets 3 games like the provincial model. Top 2 in each group go into QFs. The second tier can have an extra knockout round for the 2nd or 3rd placed teams to eliminate any dead rubbers. It's a simple format used by most counties for their club championships.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 263 - 13/11/2020 13:22:32    2308334

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "They want to keep the League as is. I don't think a second summer league would have any appeal but having 2 tiers of 16 split into 4 groups of 4. Every team gets 3 games like the provincial model. Top 2 in each group go into QFs. The second tier can have an extra knockout round for the 2nd or 3rd placed teams to eliminate any dead rubbers. It's a simple format used by most counties for their club championships."
Then change the way the whole season is structured.
The league shouldnt have to be completed in the spring before the championship even starts.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 2279 - 13/11/2020 15:36:26    2308381

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Then change the way the whole season is structured.
The league shouldnt have to be completed in the spring before the championship even starts."
Running both competitions side by side won't happen. It doesn't happen in hurling or at club level.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 263 - 13/11/2020 16:58:46    2308413

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "Running both competitions side by side won't happen. It doesn't happen in hurling or at club level."
It should happen though and would help solve a lot of issues. It should also be happening in hurling and at club level

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 2279 - 13/11/2020 19:06:07    2308467

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Replying To KillingFields:  "It should happen though and would help solve a lot of issues. It should also be happening in hurling and at club level"
It's not going to happen. Running multiple competitions off from 2 codes across various age groups is enough. We don't need to add another into the mix. And it wouldn't solve a lot of issues. Clubs don't need to run competitions off at the same time. You're acting like this is a professional sport.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 263 - 13/11/2020 19:41:03    2308476

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "It's not going to happen. Running multiple competitions off from 2 codes across various age groups is enough. We don't need to add another into the mix. And it wouldn't solve a lot of issues. Clubs don't need to run competitions off at the same time. You're acting like this is a professional sport."
Yeah I don't think it's a good idea anyway.

Even in professional sport you have secondary competitions become token competitions to be played.

The FA Cup in England is more of an annoyance than anything to Premier League teams.

The Pro14 teams pretty much only play strong teams for their home games.

French rugby clubs don't even care about the European competition.

It just wouldn't work in the GAA.

There's precedent for it not working either.

In 1997 the hurling league was played in parallel with the championship.

The hurling league semifinal fell between the All Ireland championship semifinals, Tipp qualified for the All Ireland and put out a second string team for the league semi-final which was a week after the All Ireland semi final and 3 weeks before the All Ireland. I just don't see how that makes for a good competition. That a team just abandons winning it at the penultimate stage. The thing is it makes perfect sense what Tipp did, it's what would happen now in the same circumstances. Playing the league alongside the championship would just hurt what prestige the league has at present.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3387 - 14/11/2020 12:49:43    2308658

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Hello to everyone, I have been out of this for a bit. Over a year I believe. Busy life and lost me email password like a dope but I am the original gameOfTyrones if any of ye lot recall. Sad we are out , but watching this decent donegal team playing, hoping for a new Sam team, can only be Donegal or Mayo, I don't know if any will challenge, no disrespect to Galway but Mayo should do the biz there. A toss up between both to defeat the Dubs, don't know if either can, but sure lets see...and I would not even call Cork out of the mix, could be a shock team this year(I hope) Nice to be back anyway, happy championship to ye all

GameofTyronesIsBackhere (Tyrone) - Posts: 46 - 14/11/2020 13:55:25    2308675

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