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GPA Propose Shorter Intercounty Season

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Would it be passed by the Provincial Councils too. The likes of Ulster Councils would've want to lose the Championship, but times are changing and they the outlook on County football will be different, due to the virus but to reduce season

Yes looks a bit elitist

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2072 - 05/09/2020 12:33:23    2290669

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Replying To FoolsGold:  "Would it be passed by the Provincial Councils too. The likes of Ulster Councils would've want to lose the Championship, but times are changing and they the outlook on County football will be different, due to the virus but to reduce season

Yes looks a bit elitist"
It's interesting.

I'd be surprised if they could get rid of the Provincials.

It's not a bad system though.

Division 1 and 2 teams get a double chance, division 3 and 4 teams need to win 2 games to get to the last 16. It makes the league more competitive without excluding teams from knockout football.

It could work well.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3036 - 05/09/2020 19:07:43    2290717

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Replying To Whammo86:  "It's interesting.

I'd be surprised if they could get rid of the Provincials.

It's not a bad system though.

Division 1 and 2 teams get a double chance, division 3 and 4 teams need to win 2 games to get to the last 16. It makes the league more competitive without excluding teams from knockout football.

It could work well."
I'd rather have a separate 2 tier championship. Either 4 groups of 4 followed by knockout. That would be 10 games minimum for counties so plenty of time left for clubs.

Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 266 - 16/09/2020 23:43:17    2292598

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How about keep the current 4x8 NFL divisions.
Top 5 in each div to 20-team AIC.
Div 2 champ and Div 1 top 5 get 'double chance' (DC, 2 hosts 5, 3h4, 1h9).
Other 14 to KO (10h29, 11h28 etc...19h20).
7 winners and 3 DC losers to Prelim QFs.
QFs, SFs, Final.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1808 - 19/09/2020 18:20:17    2293056

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Replying To Whammo86:  "It's interesting.

I'd be surprised if they could get rid of the Provincials.

It's not a bad system though.

Division 1 and 2 teams get a double chance, division 3 and 4 teams need to win 2 games to get to the last 16. It makes the league more competitive without excluding teams from knockout football.

It could work well."
In lieu of the 8 GPA seeding pots (top 4/ bottom 4 in each NFL div), why not add a 4x8 'prov element' into the seeding as follows:

Pot 1 (4 x highest placed county in each Prov in recent NFL).
Pots 2 to 6 (4x 2nd highest in each Prov), 4x 3rds, 4x 4ths, 4x 5ths & 4x 6ths, respectively).
Pots 7 & 8 (4x 7ths/8ths & 4x 9ths/10th/11th).
Uls 9th & Lein 9th to 11th to Conn & Muns.

8 Fixed Prov 'double chance' QFs (Pots 1v4, 2v3, 8 winners to Prov SFs, 8 losers to KO QFs).
8 Other Prov KO ties (Pots 5v8, 6v7, 8 winners to Prov KO QFs).
8 Prov SF winners to Finals.
4 Champs to AIC SFs.

Or, alternatively, to refresh the Provs, allocate 'guest' teams from Pots 5-8 to each Prov, in order to target balanced/mixed quality across the Provs (so say, 4 weak Lein teams to Uls, and 4 Uls teams give Dublin competition in Lein). With this option, 4 Champs also to AIC SFs, but 'guest' Champs would increase their 'home' Prov representation (8 Prov Finalists guaranteed 'home' Prov berths in the following year).

In addition to Sam, the Last 8 also compete for the existing 4 regional Cups.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1808 - 24/09/2020 02:43:56    2293855

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In the 1st option above, to better align the 4 reallocated teams, I amend as follows -

Pot 7 (2x 7ths / 2x 9ths)
Pot 8 (2x 8ths / 1x10th / 1x 11th).

Also, under either if the 2 alternatives, have -
Non Prov SF KO 16 to Tailteann Cup KO 16.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1808 - 24/09/2020 17:33:06    2293947

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I just think a very simple competition that'd be great.

Football Championship 1: 14 teams single round robin top 6 to the knockout rounds. Bottom 3 teams relegated.

Championship 2: 18 teams: play a 12 match season. Top 8 or 10 or whatever go to playoffs for the championship 2 and promotion.

Hurling Championship 1: 12 teams single round robin top 5 to playoffs. 12th place relegated. 11th place into a relegation playoff with championship 2 runner up.

The football can be played off in 21 weeks to be finished in Calendar week 28 say in each year. Hurling final would be week 27.

23 weeks left say to play off club competitions before year end.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3036 - 24/09/2020 18:03:59    2293950

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On another topic - with COVID, there seems to be drive towards cost control - I wonder if they'll regionalise divs again on the other side of this.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1808 - 24/09/2020 19:41:52    2293962

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How about this ?
Using the recent GPA idea with NFL as seeding for the AIC - modify as follows to build in 'flexible' 4x8 Prov Championships.

Divs 1 & 2 to 'double chance' Prov DC QFs (1v4, 2v3, winners to SFs, losers to KO QFs).
Divs 3 & 4 to Prov Premin KO Rd (high v low etc, winners to KO QFs).
In DC QFs, if a Prov 4th seed is unavailable, the 1 seed plays the 'lowest ranked guest team' (5 or higher) from another Prov instead.
I use 2019 NFL final tables below as an example -
(Mayo plays Arma in Conn; Dub v Ferm in Lein).

Ker.         M1-01.  v  Tipp. M4-16
Mayo.     C1-02.   v.  Arma U6-13
Tyr.          U1-03.  v   Done  U4-10
Dub.        L1-04.   v.  Ferm U5-11
Gal.         C2-05.   v.  Rosc. C3-07
Mona.    U2-06.  v.   Cav.   U3-08
Rosc.      C3-07
Cav.        U3-08

Mea.       L2-09.  v.  Kild.   L3-12
Done.     U4-10
Ferm.     U5-11
Kild.        L3-12
Arma.     U6-13  v.  
Clar.        M2-14. v. Cork  M3-15
Cork.      M3-15
Tipp.      M4-16

WM.       L4-17. v. Wick L11-30 (Lein)
Lao.       L5-18.  v.  Wex L10-29 (Lein)
Down.   U7-19 v. Antr. U9-27 (Uls)
Lou.      L6-20.  v.  Lond C6-32 (Conn)
Long.    L7-21. v. Lime M6-31 (Muns)
Off.       L8-22 v Wat M5-28 (Muns)
Carl.     L9-23. v. Derr. U8-25 (Uls)
Slig.     C4-24. v. Leit. C5-26 (Conn)

Derr.   U8-25
Leit.    C5-26  
Antr.   U9-27
Wat.   M5-28
Wex.  L10-29
Wick. L11-30
Lime  M6-31
Lond  C6-32  

4 Prov Champs to AIC SFs.
Non Prov SF 16 to Tailteann Cup KO 16.

What do you think ?
It's essentially the GPA idea with a Prov overlay. I think guest teams could refresh the Prov model while the Last 8 still play for 4 trophies before Sam.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1808 - 25/09/2020 16:50:56    2294072

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OR - simply - implement the GPA idea as they propose, EXCEPT -

1) Prov Championships limited ONLY to Divs 1 & 2 teams (4x4), so the 'double chance' round consists of 8 Prov SFs instead (1v4, 2v3 in each Prov with Ferm reallocated to Lein and Arma to Conn - based on 2019 as an example).

2) 8 SF winners to 4 Prov Finals and AIC KO 16.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1808 - 25/09/2020 22:13:09    2294122

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I just think a very simple competition that'd be great.

Football Championship 1: 14 teams single round robin top 6 to the knockout rounds. Bottom 3 teams relegated.

Championship 2: 18 teams: play a 12 match season. Top 8 or 10 or whatever go to playoffs for the championship 2 and promotion.

Hurling Championship 1: 12 teams single round robin top 5 to playoffs. 12th place relegated. 11th place into a relegation playoff with championship 2 runner up.

The football can be played off in 21 weeks to be finished in Calendar week 28 say in each year. Hurling final would be week 27.

23 weeks left say to play off club competitions before year end."
I like this idea, if you had promotion and relegation to the top tier, there will be meaningful games right to the end.

Would you get rid of the provincial championships or just run them separately?

Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1674 - 26/09/2020 09:52:47    2294155

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Replying To Green_Gold:  "I like this idea, if you had promotion and relegation to the top tier, there will be meaningful games right to the end.

Would you get rid of the provincial championships or just run them separately?"
I don't think there's time for the Provincials unfortunately.

The promotion being 3 up 3 down would make for a good flow of teams between tiers.

There will be 18 teams unable to win Sam each year, I think that's a price worth paying to have a much better championship competition.

It's the way national competitions are structured in sports all over the world.

I'm an Antrim fan, I know where we're at and a proper second tier competition where there's a real reward for doing well would be much better for our development than the status quo. I can't remember the name of the proposed second tier knockout championship, which shows how much I care about that.

You worry would the big day out be lost a bit. I think the playoffs for a second tier competition with promotion on the line would represent a big day out for Antrim football. If we got promotion to a top tier and had 13 games against the top teams, that'd be incredible. There are a lot of teams who could aspire to promotion.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3036 - 26/09/2020 13:08:23    2294169

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What do you think of the NFL's top 16 (could be after promotion) qualifying for the Prov SFs. In your 14+18 league above, the SF 16 could be 14+2 or 12+4 etc (all 32 would now be eligible for a Prov title every year).

Most years, Uls 5th and 6th ranked teams would be guesting at any of the other 3 Provs.

Would Uls teams (outside Uls top 4) be motivated to take the Lein title from Dub or Muns from Kerry etc. Should Provs be exclusively based on land boundaries or can be just a competition.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1808 - 26/09/2020 16:43:52    2294181

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