National Forum

RIP Mr Hume

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Replying To arock:  "Brethren are Protestants - exclusively, even if you mean it as an insult to everyone "up there". And your pathetic "move on" is just yet another insult, lifted straight out of a common media expression in the 70's which is were your mindset is stuck. As a frequent traveller/business player "up there", they are in fact a young vibrant society, enjoying life as most people do, a lot of people constructed the still flawed peace they enjoy, Hume was but one part. Unionists, Nationalists, Republicans all came together by their free will to make that peace, if Republicans and Unionists didn't want it there would be none, their inputs do not need to be in the shadows. As for Ireland, the two parts will ultimately converge and then hopefully we can all "move on"."
I live the on the border & have lived in Belfast for many years in the 1990's & experienced first hand the difficulties & differences of that time. I still visit there weekly.
I have family & friends living in Northern Ireland - happy, integrated & successful. They are incredibly content in their environment. I never hear them complain about the past of the present & goodness knows some of them could have cause to, considering their past experiences. However they have moved on & are not hostages to history. They recognize & appreciate the benefits of living in that particular part of the island.
Many of the contributions from NI on here are not reflective of that, often under represented part of the society that I know. Regarding a 70's mindset, I was a mere babe in arms, but thanks.

greysoil (Monaghan) - Posts: 786 - 10/08/2020 20:54:50    2287175

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Replying To arock:  "Brethren are Protestants - exclusively, even if you mean it as an insult to everyone "up there". And your pathetic "move on" is just yet another insult, lifted straight out of a common media expression in the 70's which is were your mindset is stuck. As a frequent traveller/business player "up there", they are in fact a young vibrant society, enjoying life as most people do, a lot of people constructed the still flawed peace they enjoy, Hume was but one part. Unionists, Nationalists, Republicans all came together by their free will to make that peace, if Republicans and Unionists didn't want it there would be none, their inputs do not need to be in the shadows. As for Ireland, the two parts will ultimately converge and then hopefully we can all "move on"."
Why bring religion into it?

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 2867 - 10/08/2020 23:14:31    2287186

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John Hume was unique - he was what a real politician should be, he was also a socialist, something which made him unpopular in the south and then with the Hume-Adams talks he was despised in many southern quarters, especially rte and the indo newspapers....... but he was a man of peace and social justice.
But to our friends and gaels in the 26 counties we live in relative peace ( it is a way safer and quieter) now compared to then, but there is still discrimination in the media, housing, jobs, transport, health, education etc...
John Hume first came to prominence in the ' University for Derry' campaign in 1966 , nearly 60 yrs ago. Derry was and is the 4th largest city and still doesn't have a university while small unionist Coleraine got a university campus.....
Nobodywants to go back to the dark days, but we still don't have a police service that is trusted or accepted by all ...
Mr Hume said 'we shall overcome' - we will overcome
RIP John

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1574 - 11/08/2020 09:24:55    2287200

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John Hume was a great man , brought peace to Northern Ireland and helped people, but he was not a GAA man and Soccer was his game and Derry City Football Club his team.

jacktheboy (Donegal) - Posts: 18 - 11/08/2020 10:17:58    2287201

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Replying To cuchulainn35:  "John Hume was unique - he was what a real politician should be, he was also a socialist, something which made him unpopular in the south and then with the Hume-Adams talks he was despised in many southern quarters, especially rte and the indo newspapers....... but he was a man of peace and social justice.
But to our friends and gaels in the 26 counties we live in relative peace ( it is a way safer and quieter) now compared to then, but there is still discrimination in the media, housing, jobs, transport, health, education etc...
John Hume first came to prominence in the ' University for Derry' campaign in 1966 , nearly 60 yrs ago. Derry was and is the 4th largest city and still doesn't have a university while small unionist Coleraine got a university campus.....
Nobodywants to go back to the dark days, but we still don't have a police service that is trusted or accepted by all ...
Mr Hume said 'we shall overcome' - we will overcome
RIP John"
Correct. We don't have peace just an absence of violence. The most disadvantaged and poorest areas of the North are still in Nationalist districts of Belfast and Derry. The New Lodge, Divis, Ardoyne Creggan, Bogside, Strabane are still top of these lists. As for policing it's going back at a rapid rate. The ratio of Catholic recruits is falling dramatically as many still see policing as very politicised and firmly in the hands of Unionist, Masonic and British elements.
At the weekend the PSNI sent 40 jeeps and dozens of riot cops into the lower Falls to remove about a dozen pallets and some rubbish that was destined for a bonfire. A few weeks before the cops stood by and watched as Loyalists built a massive bonfire right up against an interface in North Belfast. The difference in the policing strategy is massive. Far from moving on, we are accelerating backwards very rapidly. There are posters on here who know absolutely nothing about what goes on in the North, they don't have the first clue.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9265 - 11/08/2020 13:38:08    2287222

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Replying To Ulsterman:  "Correct. We don't have peace just an absence of violence. The most disadvantaged and poorest areas of the North are still in Nationalist districts of Belfast and Derry. The New Lodge, Divis, Ardoyne Creggan, Bogside, Strabane are still top of these lists. As for policing it's going back at a rapid rate. The ratio of Catholic recruits is falling dramatically as many still see policing as very politicised and firmly in the hands of Unionist, Masonic and British elements.
At the weekend the PSNI sent 40 jeeps and dozens of riot cops into the lower Falls to remove about a dozen pallets and some rubbish that was destined for a bonfire. A few weeks before the cops stood by and watched as Loyalists built a massive bonfire right up against an interface in North Belfast. The difference in the policing strategy is massive. Far from moving on, we are accelerating backwards very rapidly. There are posters on here who know absolutely nothing about what goes on in the North, they don't have the first clue."
To the posters not living in Northern Ireland, make up your own minds. There's lots of sources to choose from and you can visit anytime you like.

Ulsterman, you might have a point about disadvantaged areas (found in every city on Earth) but you'll find just as many people who don't have any problem with the cops up here as those who hold your view. And I don't mean because they are Unionist. I mean those of us who actually do want to move on. Things have never been better as far as we are concerned. I was born in 1980 btw.

That incident in the lower Falls you mention doesn't really support your myopic narrative. Those who live there are very clear they don't want anti-internment bonfires. The youths who built them managed to injure 29 officers that day with petrol bombs and chunks of masonry. The police were there to try and get the bonfires shut down. So the cops didn't shut down that loyalist one? Guess what, the people living there wanted the bonfire. There's the difference.

I don't like anybody burning bonfires but you sure as hell won't see me going in there to remove them. I wouldn't send firefighters in to do it either so we are left with the PSNI and contractors hired by landowners to do so.

Apologies for derailing the thread further.

Suas Sios (None) - Posts: 1410 - 11/08/2020 16:44:08    2287253

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Replying To cuchulainn35:  "John Hume was unique - he was what a real politician should be, he was also a socialist, something which made him unpopular in the south and then with the Hume-Adams talks he was despised in many southern quarters, especially rte and the indo newspapers....... but he was a man of peace and social justice.
But to our friends and gaels in the 26 counties we live in relative peace ( it is a way safer and quieter) now compared to then, but there is still discrimination in the media, housing, jobs, transport, health, education etc...
John Hume first came to prominence in the ' University for Derry' campaign in 1966 , nearly 60 yrs ago. Derry was and is the 4th largest city and still doesn't have a university while small unionist Coleraine got a university campus.....
Nobodywants to go back to the dark days, but we still don't have a police service that is trusted or accepted by all ...
Mr Hume said 'we shall overcome' - we will overcome
RIP John"
You made a good post in the spirit of the thread cuchulainn85.

However I don't entirely agree with your perception of discrimination. I can't speak about the media because I don't watch telly or read newspapers but, what do you mean by discrimination in housing, jobs, transport, health and education?

There's been equal opportunity in employment for ages. Similarly, transport and health is available to all so I don't understand? As for education, I attended UCC a full 20 years ago and the students union was full of GAA shirts and the History classes brimming with young nationalists. Coleraine town itself was loyalist no doubt (We all lived in Portstewart) but the campus, not so. Just like QUB campus where I work now. Very much dominated by Socialist/Nationalist figures trying their hand at student politics. Maybe not the higher ups with the big salaries but certainly the student body is full of them.

As for the cops, what do you need to see before you will let them get on with their jobs free of suspicion?

Suas Sios (None) - Posts: 1410 - 11/08/2020 17:25:28    2287257

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Replying To Suas Sios:  "You made a good post in the spirit of the thread cuchulainn85.

However I don't entirely agree with your perception of discrimination. I can't speak about the media because I don't watch telly or read newspapers but, what do you mean by discrimination in housing, jobs, transport, health and education?

There's been equal opportunity in employment for ages. Similarly, transport and health is available to all so I don't understand? As for education, I attended UCC a full 20 years ago and the students union was full of GAA shirts and the History classes brimming with young nationalists. Coleraine town itself was loyalist no doubt (We all lived in Portstewart) but the campus, not so. Just like QUB campus where I work now. Very much dominated by Socialist/Nationalist figures trying their hand at student politics. Maybe not the higher ups with the big salaries but certainly the student body is full of them.

As for the cops, what do you need to see before you will let them get on with their jobs free of suspicion?"
"As for education, I attended UCC..."

Did you start your education in college?

Education starts way before college and university, which the majority of people never attend.

As I mentioned before. Northern Ireland has a primarily religiously segregated education system. Until that changes, there is little hope of Integration.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1050 - 11/08/2020 21:30:13    2287276

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  " "As for education, I attended UCC..."

Did you start your education in college?

Education starts way before college and university, which the majority of people never attend.

As I mentioned before. Northern Ireland has a primarily religiously segregated education system. Until that changes, there is little hope of Integration."
No, I went to school of course Cockney cat. UUC is the very University cuchulainn mentioned in Coleraine. I got the acronym wrong before I just noticed.

I worked in the catholic Grammar system for most my career and I have always known it is part of the problem. Faith schools will be around a while yet I'd say.

Didn't stop me having protestant friends from age 15 and up, but it definitely was a big issue to many of my peers at the time.

Suas Sios (None) - Posts: 1410 - 11/08/2020 22:18:11    2287280

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Replying To Ulsterman:  "You really DON'T have a clue. Many people in the North would like a truth and reconciliation forum where the facts would come out. The main opponent of this is the British State who have the most to lose. This would only reveal just how rotten the Dirty War was and how deep it's tentacles reached into the British Establishment, into Westminster, Whitehall and large parts of the British media who lied and covered up for their activities of their state. If you think that it was ALL about Green v Orange and we were all savages who just needed taken by the hand to the promised land.....you REALLY, REALLY don't have a clue."
Exactly Ulsterman. It's the same old thought process that says it was ok for fellas to join armed groups in 1916 and early 1920's and kill British military personnel but not in 1969 and after even though we know what was going on,you'd be wasting your time talkin to some people about it.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4217 - 12/08/2020 04:10:18    2287296

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Replying To s goldrick:  "I could never understand why people lauded the likes of Ian Paisley, Gerry Adams, David Trimble, Martin McGuinness, David Irvine etc for becoming peace brokers. The very same people who kept the fires of hate stoked until they latterly decided that it wasn't in their interest any longer while John Hume was trying to broker peace all the time, trying to find a solution that didn't involve tit-for-tat attacks. He was there in the bogside at the start of the civil rights marches along with others. Their way was the right way despite what all the "whatabout" merchants who cant see the wood for the trees. " Oh but what would you know, you didn't live through it". " you didn't experience the discrimination, the intimidation, the ambushes, the murder, the bombs etc etc". Well maybe if these so-called latterday peacemakers who shook hands and laughed at The Boyne or on the Late Late show had stepped back and let the likes of John Hume and other GOOD people lead their people and influence them lots of lives would have been saved."
Your first 4 words were all that was needed in fairness :)

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4217 - 12/08/2020 04:12:50    2287297

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RIP John Hume....a man with a good heart.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4217 - 12/08/2020 04:15:05    2287298

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Replying To seanie_boy:  "Exactly Ulsterman. It's the same old thought process that says it was ok for fellas to join armed groups in 1916 and early 1920's and kill British military personnel but not in 1969 and after even though we know what was going on,you'd be wasting your time talkin to some people about it."
This is not specific to this point but a lot of people do this and it creates a lot of debate.
Justify something today because thats way in was in the past and say something is not justified today but was in the past because it is the past. You see the same arguments in a lot of debates excusing behavior in the past by saying but those were the times. I am not saying one or the other is right or wrong - just that its never black and white as much as some would like us to believe.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 955 - 12/08/2020 11:21:32    2287331

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  " "As for education, I attended UCC..."

Did you start your education in college?

Education starts way before college and university, which the majority of people never attend.

As I mentioned before. Northern Ireland has a primarily religiously segregated education system. Until that changes, there is little hope of Integration."
The North is a better place than it was in the '80' and '90's - but it isn't perfect and isn't right.
To arrest and change the journalists for their outstanding work on the documentary 'No stone unturned' - just shows the level of political policing - the shocking and harrowing effects of the Grenvale Hotel , when 3 teenagers died, when police inaction has many questions
Yes we have a 'Fair Employment legislation' , but that doesn't stop foreign companies locating where they are positioned- in predominately unionist towns - in south armgh and south down only one outside business and factory was/located and that's Collins Aerospace in Kilkeel

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1574 - 12/08/2020 12:29:30    2287353

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John Hume was a great Irish man and do not forget that there were politicians, with the help of some of our biased media claiming that he was a terrorist in the 70's, 80's and a bit of this still continues. There were also others involved in bringing peace, some who have not been named. One of the problems with policing in the North is that the new force are still managed by the RUC! I never had a problem with anyones religion as it is their own business. RIP John.

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2173 - 14/08/2020 12:48:47    2287527

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CuChulainn35 Fair enough, I see exactly why you don't trust the police.

It's not my job to defend the RUC from evidence of collusion with Loyalists in Loughinisland and any other cases like it.

It's not up to me to explain where foreign companies site their factories either so I'll leave it there.

Suas Sios (None) - Posts: 1410 - 14/08/2020 13:28:27    2287534

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Replying To browncows:  "John Hume was a great Irish man and do not forget that there were politicians, with the help of some of our biased media claiming that he was a terrorist in the 70's, 80's and a bit of this still continues. There were also others involved in bringing peace, some who have not been named. One of the problems with policing in the North is that the new force are still managed by the RUC! I never had a problem with anyones religion as it is their own business. RIP John."
When or who called him a terrorist ? Be nice to know this. Being from Derry city and never hearing that has me curious. Always good to get out of ones own personal community basis

Canuckgael (USA) - Posts: 25 - 17/08/2020 07:42:20    2287829

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