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Replying To s goldrick: "a very back-handed compliment. I suppose you would praise him more if he orchestrated bombing and shooting campaigns." When the state starts shooting and killing it's own innocent and unarmed citizens, then fabricates lies to justify the murders. Peace talks get put on the back-burner.
Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2447 - 08/08/2020 09:43:30
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anyone would think to listen to some people on here that the likes of me dont know what went on. I course I do. same crack went on all over the world and a hell of a lot worse in most places. the thing is you need young impressionable hot-headed brain-washed individuals to do the dirty work of the "leader" and the stokers of the flames. One would hope that as these once young individuals grow up and reflect they will see a different way. Yes the catholics were discriminated against and harrased and intimidated and yes it was sanctioned from Westminstet but the way to expose it and end it was to use the fledgling medium of TV and the press in to shaming the British Govt, get the british public on your side, get the rest of the world on your side, use skill, judgement, negotiations. Are the 6 counties free? no, Is there better prospects for catholics now in the 6 counties than there was in the past ? yes. Before you can even attempt to contemplate a united Ireland , you need a period of stability and peace and I am talking about generations. You need a time when no one is left alive who remembers the troubles. You dont need whataboutery.
s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 08/08/2020 15:40:46
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Replying To s goldrick: "anyone would think to listen to some people on here that the likes of me dont know what went on. I course I do. same crack went on all over the world and a hell of a lot worse in most places. the thing is you need young impressionable hot-headed brain-washed individuals to do the dirty work of the "leader" and the stokers of the flames. One would hope that as these once young individuals grow up and reflect they will see a different way. Yes the catholics were discriminated against and harrased and intimidated and yes it was sanctioned from Westminstet but the way to expose it and end it was to use the fledgling medium of TV and the press in to shaming the British Govt, get the british public on your side, get the rest of the world on your side, use skill, judgement, negotiations. Are the 6 counties free? no, Is there better prospects for catholics now in the 6 counties than there was in the past ? yes. Before you can even attempt to contemplate a united Ireland , you need a period of stability and peace and I am talking about generations. You need a time when no one is left alive who remembers the troubles. You dont need whataboutery." You are really rambling on here, showing great naivety. To take one point:
"but the way to expose it and end it was to use the fledgling medium of TV and the press in to shaming the British Govt, get the british public on your side, get the rest of the world on your side"
TV and most of the press were either controlled by the British Government or toed the party line; broadcasting and printing government propaganda. The vast majority of the British public knew next to nothing about, and couldn't care less about Northern Ireland; as long as it didn't directly effect their way of life.
Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2447 - 08/08/2020 23:34:31
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r.i.p. John Hume.A great great person.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3674 - 08/08/2020 23:48:24
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Replying To s goldrick: "anyone would think to listen to some people on here that the likes of me dont know what went on. I course I do. same crack went on all over the world and a hell of a lot worse in most places. the thing is you need young impressionable hot-headed brain-washed individuals to do the dirty work of the "leader" and the stokers of the flames. One would hope that as these once young individuals grow up and reflect they will see a different way. Yes the catholics were discriminated against and harrased and intimidated and yes it was sanctioned from Westminstet but the way to expose it and end it was to use the fledgling medium of TV and the press in to shaming the British Govt, get the british public on your side, get the rest of the world on your side, use skill, judgement, negotiations. Are the 6 counties free? no, Is there better prospects for catholics now in the 6 counties than there was in the past ? yes. Before you can even attempt to contemplate a united Ireland , you need a period of stability and peace and I am talking about generations. You need a time when no one is left alive who remembers the troubles. You dont need whataboutery." Those who remember it tend to be less entrenched in nonsensical views. They remember what it was all like before.
Gator (Monaghan) - Posts: 238 - 09/08/2020 12:29:03
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Replying To Cockney_Cat: "No, he did not need to raise arms, but others did need to, not just during The Troubles, but over the last 1000 years or more." Move on.
greysoil (Monaghan) - Posts: 965 - 09/08/2020 23:06:47
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Replying To Ulsterman: "You really DON'T have a clue. Many people in the North would like a truth and reconciliation forum where the facts would come out. The main opponent of this is the British State who have the most to lose. This would only reveal just how rotten the Dirty War was and how deep it's tentacles reached into the British Establishment, into Westminster, Whitehall and large parts of the British media who lied and covered up for their activities of their state. If you think that it was ALL about Green v Orange and we were all savages who just needed taken by the hand to the promised land.....you REALLY, REALLY don't have a clue." Move on.
greysoil (Monaghan) - Posts: 965 - 09/08/2020 23:11:11
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John Hume, a great statesman & a true patriot.
It amazes & concerns me in equal measures to see how intrenched our Northern brethren are in the past. I lived up there for many years & always hoped for some sort of progress, but alas it appears, judging by the various sweet 6 contributors on here, my hopes were in vain. It is a shame that a thread for the great John Hume descended into the usual old blah.
greysoil (Monaghan) - Posts: 965 - 09/08/2020 23:23:31
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Replying To greysoil: "John Hume, a great statesman & a true patriot.
It amazes & concerns me in equal measures to see how intrenched our Northern brethren are in the past. I lived up there for many years & always hoped for some sort of progress, but alas it appears, judging by the various sweet 6 contributors on here, my hopes were in vain. It is a shame that a thread for the great John Hume descended into the usual old blah." You REALLY REALLY DON'T have a clue.
Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9697 - 10/08/2020 03:45:19
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Replying To greysoil: "John Hume, a great statesman & a true patriot.
It amazes & concerns me in equal measures to see how intrenched our Northern brethren are in the past. I lived up there for many years & always hoped for some sort of progress, but alas it appears, judging by the various sweet 6 contributors on here, my hopes were in vain. It is a shame that a thread for the great John Hume descended into the usual old blah." The irony of your post. Your one of posters dragging it down.
Doing exactly as the great man spent his life fighting against - judging people just by where they come from.
RoverTin (Derry) - Posts: 226 - 10/08/2020 08:46:20
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Replying To s goldrick: "anyone would think to listen to some people on here that the likes of me dont know what went on. I course I do. same crack went on all over the world and a hell of a lot worse in most places. the thing is you need young impressionable hot-headed brain-washed individuals to do the dirty work of the "leader" and the stokers of the flames. One would hope that as these once young individuals grow up and reflect they will see a different way. Yes the catholics were discriminated against and harrased and intimidated and yes it was sanctioned from Westminstet but the way to expose it and end it was to use the fledgling medium of TV and the press in to shaming the British Govt, get the british public on your side, get the rest of the world on your side, use skill, judgement, negotiations. Are the 6 counties free? no, Is there better prospects for catholics now in the 6 counties than there was in the past ? yes. Before you can even attempt to contemplate a united Ireland , you need a period of stability and peace and I am talking about generations. You need a time when no one is left alive who remembers the troubles. You dont need whataboutery." What an ignorant and insulting post to all those who suffered in this sectarian statelet....it has changed so much that the mother of a 14 Yr old boy who has went missing and then died in mysterious circumstances has had to go public in past 24 hrs asking people to sign a petition to demand the police ombudsman look at the PSNI failures in his case.....away and get your head showered spoutting nonsense like that.
John Hume was a great man , yes he was anti violence and proudly so but he also knew this place was rotten to the core
ArmaghCat (Armagh) - Posts: 86 - 10/08/2020 09:29:10
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A great man who was well ahead of his time. He must have known that by reaching out to Gerry Adams and bringing Sinn Féin in, that his own party would suffer eventually. But he did it anyway in the interests of peace. If more politicians showed that level of integrity the country would be in a better place.
I was watching a program the other night and it showed Bill Clinton giving a rousing speech in Derry. Clinton has his flaws but he fairly put his neck out for achieving peace in the North. The Brits were apoplectic with rage when he gave Gerry Adams a visa for example. But the gamble paid off and we have John Hume to thank for orchestrating a lot of it.
I think the saddest thing was that due to his illness he had little if any recollection of the role he played. We can only hope that further progress can be made in the power sharing arrangement and that dialogue and compromise remain the tools for achieving aims rather than the bullet and the bomb. John Hume's legacy demands that of us.
RIP.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9116 - 10/08/2020 09:35:28
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Replying To Ulsterman: "You really DON'T have a clue. Many people in the North would like a truth and reconciliation forum where the facts would come out. The main opponent of this is the British State who have the most to lose. This would only reveal just how rotten the Dirty War was and how deep it's tentacles reached into the British Establishment, into Westminster, Whitehall and large parts of the British media who lied and covered up for their activities of their state. If you think that it was ALL about Green v Orange and we were all savages who just needed taken by the hand to the promised land.....you REALLY, REALLY don't have a clue." Well said Ulsterman.
ConnollyDub (Dublin) - Posts: 2007 - 10/08/2020 10:17:46
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Replying To s goldrick: "anyone would think to listen to some people on here that the likes of me dont know what went on. I course I do. same crack went on all over the world and a hell of a lot worse in most places. the thing is you need young impressionable hot-headed brain-washed individuals to do the dirty work of the "leader" and the stokers of the flames. One would hope that as these once young individuals grow up and reflect they will see a different way. Yes the catholics were discriminated against and harrased and intimidated and yes it was sanctioned from Westminstet but the way to expose it and end it was to use the fledgling medium of TV and the press in to shaming the British Govt, get the british public on your side, get the rest of the world on your side, use skill, judgement, negotiations. Are the 6 counties free? no, Is there better prospects for catholics now in the 6 counties than there was in the past ? yes. Before you can even attempt to contemplate a united Ireland , you need a period of stability and peace and I am talking about generations. You need a time when no one is left alive who remembers the troubles. You dont need whataboutery." While I am not 100% sure about your entire post, I agree with the last bit. I lived through it and came out the other side a very different person. I have nephews now that don't know a thing about the troubles and friends in all the communities.
We are trying to move on, and I think that's what Hume would have wanted.
I give him massive credit for his role in the process.
Rest in Peace
Suas Sios (None) - Posts: 1550 - 10/08/2020 10:19:14
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Replying To s goldrick: "a very back-handed compliment. I suppose you would praise him more if he orchestrated bombing and shooting campaigns." Utter nonsense from you as usual. Why would I feel the need for a 'back handed compliment' if I'm not obliged to say anything about the man? Trust me there's nothing I would've liked more than to see John Hume's ways be the answer to everything in the North. He was a great man and even people who didn't agree with him thought so. The only people who didn't think that of him were unionists, for no other reason than he was a smart fenian who might take some of what they had. The British backed the unionists to the hilt in this regard.
Your pathetic solution rant that followed this is typical of someone who didn't live and see it first hand. As clueless as the British people you are trying to convince. Are you going to infiltrate the BBC or other global corporations who's prime agenda is to uphold the illusion that the British empire is always heroic and fights for liberty and freedom? Good luck with that!
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2385 - 10/08/2020 11:32:02
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Replying To greysoil: "Move on." I have moved on. I was replying to someone who hasn't. Several people on here are using a condolences topic for John Hume to attack other people, some of who are also dead. I notice you haven't asked any of them to "Move on".
Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2447 - 10/08/2020 12:20:20
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Replying To greysoil: "John Hume, a great statesman & a true patriot.
It amazes & concerns me in equal measures to see how intrenched our Northern brethren are in the past. I lived up there for many years & always hoped for some sort of progress, but alas it appears, judging by the various sweet 6 contributors on here, my hopes were in vain. It is a shame that a thread for the great John Hume descended into the usual old blah." Everyone was laying tributes to John Hume until you and another poster from outside the 6 ounties began the obnoxious generalising. While you tell us its descending into the 'usual old blah'? Look to yourself before you question others on this one.
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2385 - 10/08/2020 13:34:42
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Replying To Lockjaw: "A great man who was well ahead of his time. He must have known that by reaching out to Gerry Adams and bringing Sinn Féin in, that his own party would suffer eventually. But he did it anyway in the interests of peace. If more politicians showed that level of integrity the country would be in a better place.
I was watching a program the other night and it showed Bill Clinton giving a rousing speech in Derry. Clinton has his flaws but he fairly put his neck out for achieving peace in the North. The Brits were apoplectic with rage when he gave Gerry Adams a visa for example. But the gamble paid off and we have John Hume to thank for orchestrating a lot of it.
I think the saddest thing was that due to his illness he had little if any recollection of the role he played. We can only hope that further progress can be made in the power sharing arrangement and that dialogue and compromise remain the tools for achieving aims rather than the bullet and the bomb. John Hume's legacy demands that of us.
RIP." Lockjaw, I normally agree with you 100% but the statement below is a bit revisionist to say the least
'A great man who was well ahead of his time. He must have known that by reaching out to Gerry Adams and bringing Sinn Féin in, that his own party would suffer eventually. But he did it anyway in the interests of peace. If more politicians showed that level of integrity the country would be in a better place.'
He did NOT reach out to Gerry Adams, the republican movement and Sinn Fein were involved in 3 separate talks processes that Hume never even knew about. Gerry Adams and Fr Alec Reid then reached out to Seamus Mallon and the sdlp but they REJECTED the offer of talks, Gerry Adams and Fr Alec then reached out to Hume who responded positively. It was Sinn Fein and Adams who did the instigating not the other way around.
Tom1916 (Armagh) - Posts: 2001 - 10/08/2020 15:44:46
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Replying To Tom1916: "Lockjaw, I normally agree with you 100% but the statement below is a bit revisionist to say the least
'A great man who was well ahead of his time. He must have known that by reaching out to Gerry Adams and bringing Sinn Féin in, that his own party would suffer eventually. But he did it anyway in the interests of peace. If more politicians showed that level of integrity the country would be in a better place.'
He did NOT reach out to Gerry Adams, the republican movement and Sinn Fein were involved in 3 separate talks processes that Hume never even knew about. Gerry Adams and Fr Alec Reid then reached out to Seamus Mallon and the sdlp but they REJECTED the offer of talks, Gerry Adams and Fr Alec then reached out to Hume who responded positively. It was Sinn Fein and Adams who did the instigating not the other way around." Right enough actually. Father Alec was a crucial intermediary in all of the behind the scenes talks that subsequently led to the GFA. His work might have been unknown to the general public but without his involvement who knows where we'd be.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9116 - 10/08/2020 17:33:41
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Replying To greysoil: "John Hume, a great statesman & a true patriot.
It amazes & concerns me in equal measures to see how intrenched our Northern brethren are in the past. I lived up there for many years & always hoped for some sort of progress, but alas it appears, judging by the various sweet 6 contributors on here, my hopes were in vain. It is a shame that a thread for the great John Hume descended into the usual old blah." Brethren are Protestants - exclusively, even if you mean it as an insult to everyone "up there". And your pathetic "move on" is just yet another insult, lifted straight out of a common media expression in the 70's which is were your mindset is stuck. As a frequent traveller/business player "up there", they are in fact a young vibrant society, enjoying life as most people do, a lot of people constructed the still flawed peace they enjoy, Hume was but one part. Unionists, Nationalists, Republicans all came together by their free will to make that peace, if Republicans and Unionists didn't want it there would be none, their inputs do not need to be in the shadows. As for Ireland, the two parts will ultimately converge and then hopefully we can all "move on".
arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4895 - 10/08/2020 18:30:38
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