National Forum

Should The Sloithar Be Redesigned

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Just seen the video and article on Mark Fannings point from his own 13 yard line, look it was a great score and I'm not knocking his point and I know this has being discussed before on the forum but the Sloithar has to change back to the old ball from the 90's. The ball is being pucked too far now, we could very will have points scored from puck outs soon enough with the conditioning players are getting now. Also how is the referee supppse to follow the flow of play with the distance the ball travels. I remember a good point made by a poster a few months ago that the ball is not in play long enough with players taking shots out the field. The GAA don't think there an issue and I can't understand how the weight of the modern sloithar hasn't being a topic of discussion on the Sunday game.

DUALSUPPORT (Limerick) - Posts: 640 - 31/07/2020 21:44:17    2286005

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Replying To DUALSUPPORT:  "Just seen the video and article on Mark Fannings point from his own 13 yard line, look it was a great score and I'm not knocking his point and I know this has being discussed before on the forum but the Sloithar has to change back to the old ball from the 90's. The ball is being pucked too far now, we could very will have points scored from puck outs soon enough with the conditioning players are getting now. Also how is the referee supppse to follow the flow of play with the distance the ball travels. I remember a good point made by a poster a few months ago that the ball is not in play long enough with players taking shots out the field. The GAA don't think there an issue and I can't understand how the weight of the modern sloithar hasn't being a topic of discussion on the Sunday game."
Goalkeepers were dropping balls beyond the 21 in the 70's. Reason, the bass size of the hurley. Since then players are now sometimes playing with goalies hurleys out the field. Strength and conditioning has also helped of course.
Unless therse something radically wrong then The GAA are last to make changes. What they could do though is regulate the size and weight of sliothars and especially hurley bass size.

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 592 - 01/08/2020 10:52:01    2286025

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Replying To ZUL10:  "Goalkeepers were dropping balls beyond the 21 in the 70's. Reason, the bass size of the hurley. Since then players are now sometimes playing with goalies hurleys out the field. Strength and conditioning has also helped of course.
Unless therse something radically wrong then The GAA are last to make changes. What they could do though is regulate the size and weight of sliothars and especially hurley bass size."
The hurley boss has changed big time and has contributed to the demise of ground hurling. The length that players use also has changed. All of this has contributed to the multiple "scrums" that we see in hurling these days as its all about getting the ball in your hand. The hurling crowd don't want to admit it but ground hurling is a thing of the past, in Football they keep introducing rules to keep aspects of the game - high fielding but in hurling no concern over ground hurling. It seems as if innovation and tactics are frowned on in Football by certain "traditional" football counties espically when they are the ones not winning All Irelands.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 923 - 01/08/2020 11:20:17    2286027

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Not yet a problem in Tyrone. Or if it is, nobody but the poor Tyrone hurlers would know about it as they have no fans. It's a bit of a disgrace, really

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 745 - 01/08/2020 11:57:38    2286031

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Replying To zinny:  "The hurley boss has changed big time and has contributed to the demise of ground hurling. The length that players use also has changed. All of this has contributed to the multiple "scrums" that we see in hurling these days as its all about getting the ball in your hand. The hurling crowd don't want to admit it but ground hurling is a thing of the past, in Football they keep introducing rules to keep aspects of the game - high fielding but in hurling no concern over ground hurling. It seems as if innovation and tactics are frowned on in Football by certain "traditional" football counties espically when they are the ones not winning All Irelands."
Thank god. Ground hurling is an awful looking thing. Theres always hockey if you miss it that much

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 975 - 01/08/2020 12:25:13    2286034

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Replying To zinny:  "The hurley boss has changed big time and has contributed to the demise of ground hurling. The length that players use also has changed. All of this has contributed to the multiple "scrums" that we see in hurling these days as its all about getting the ball in your hand. The hurling crowd don't want to admit it but ground hurling is a thing of the past, in Football they keep introducing rules to keep aspects of the game - high fielding but in hurling no concern over ground hurling. It seems as if innovation and tactics are frowned on in Football by certain "traditional" football counties espically when they are the ones not winning All Irelands."
I don't think anyone in the 'hurling crowd' has a problem saying ground hurling in mainly a thing of the past. The days of just pulling aimlessly on a ball are long gone. More often than not, it simply gave possession back to the other team. It would have managers and supporters tearing their hair out. There's a time and place for it, but the first priority of any player is get possession.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 787 - 01/08/2020 13:07:41    2286039

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Replying To zinny:  "The hurley boss has changed big time and has contributed to the demise of ground hurling. The length that players use also has changed. All of this has contributed to the multiple "scrums" that we see in hurling these days as its all about getting the ball in your hand. The hurling crowd don't want to admit it but ground hurling is a thing of the past, in Football they keep introducing rules to keep aspects of the game - high fielding but in hurling no concern over ground hurling. It seems as if innovation and tactics are frowned on in Football by certain "traditional" football counties espically when they are the ones not winning All Irelands."
"The hurling crowd dont want to admit it..." ??? I think every hurling person would freely admit it because it is so obvious. Hurling has evolved into a possession game nowadays mainly through the influence of professional sports. Personally I thought ground hurling and the clash of the ash was a great part of the game but like the dodo it is gone forever and there is no point wishing the situation was otherwise. However I would like to see something done about the hurling "scrums" which are a blight on the game.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1423 - 01/08/2020 13:22:57    2286040

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Replying To ZUL10:  "Goalkeepers were dropping balls beyond the 21 in the 70's. Reason, the bass size of the hurley. Since then players are now sometimes playing with goalies hurleys out the field. Strength and conditioning has also helped of course.
Unless therse something radically wrong then The GAA are last to make changes. What they could do though is regulate the size and weight of sliothars and especially hurley bass size."
The size of the bas on hurls nowadays is 100% a factor. I think there should be some regulation around how big, heavy hurls can be. Nearly 90% of all frees given are taken as shots at goal now, only exception is frees given in the full back line! It seriously slows down a game and makes it very stop start.

Players today are obviously extremely skillful but the size of the bas on their hurls make everything, striking, rising, controlling, much easier.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13049 - 01/08/2020 13:42:13    2286041

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I don't think that it needs to be redesigned so much as it definitely needs to be standardised.
There's any amount of sliotar manufactures out there and the differences can be huge between them. Even ones that have the official gaa stamp on them. Some have larger rims or shorter rims, other ones can be far more responsive too.
Oneills footballs are the only ball used in club and inter county games they need to do the same for hurling.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 930 - 01/08/2020 14:09:50    2286043

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "I don't think anyone in the 'hurling crowd' has a problem saying ground hurling in mainly a thing of the past. The days of just pulling aimlessly on a ball are long gone. More often than not, it simply gave possession back to the other team. It would have managers and supporters tearing their hair out. There's a time and place for it, but the first priority of any player is get possession."
When I say hurling crowd I mean the people who go on about Hurling as if it was the same game that was played 50 years ago, that its all manly stuff and team just go out there and let fly. They are the same people who will put down football for been all about running and possession and has lost its way because there is not enough kicking whereas Hurling is still pure. Whether of not it is better gone from the game is debatable, it was never that random where the ball would end up anyway and it made for more individual battles in the game. However the arguments you have put forward are exactly the same for possession Football but yet there are constant changes in Football to try and curb it - the question is why?
Both games are different now to what they were before but I am not sure any supporter who could bridge that time period can say that given two points in time a game was better that the other as your expectations of how good that game is, is at that point in time.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 923 - 01/08/2020 16:50:34    2286053

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "I don't think anyone in the 'hurling crowd' has a problem saying ground hurling in mainly a thing of the past. The days of just pulling aimlessly on a ball are long gone. More often than not, it simply gave possession back to the other team. It would have managers and supporters tearing their hair out. There's a time and place for it, but the first priority of any player is get possession."
But dont you understand EVERYTHING WAS BETTER IN THE OLD DAYS

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 975 - 01/08/2020 16:57:01    2286054

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I posted this somewhere already but can't find it. We found a brand new bag of old hurling balls in our attic cleanout, they are probably from the 80s or early 90s.
There was no difference in the weight, now they had probably lost some of their spring over the 30 years in the middle, we had a puck around with them and they were not that different from the ball of today.
We went for a puck around with them when they got wet and they were a different animal, they rims absorbed a lot of water and it became a tonne weight.
But lads, I saw the 1990 All-Ireland recently, and Ger Cunningham was landing puck outs on the opposition 21. It is not that different today, just better hurls and better technique. Mark Fanning has his technique to a tee as did Ger Cunningham in 1990.
If you want to stop it travelling vast distances, maybe look at the rims etc but don't make the ball heavier. Most of the year is played with a wet ball.
If you want to stop rucks, throw the ball in up in the air with hurls down rather than onto the ground for everybody to crowd around as it gets stuck in a divot. As my shin show at the moment, throw ins on the ground are dangerous and a stupid way to restart a game.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 783 - 01/08/2020 18:27:40    2286058

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "I posted this somewhere already but can't find it. We found a brand new bag of old hurling balls in our attic cleanout, they are probably from the 80s or early 90s.
There was no difference in the weight, now they had probably lost some of their spring over the 30 years in the middle, we had a puck around with them and they were not that different from the ball of today.
We went for a puck around with them when they got wet and they were a different animal, they rims absorbed a lot of water and it became a tonne weight.
But lads, I saw the 1990 All-Ireland recently, and Ger Cunningham was landing puck outs on the opposition 21. It is not that different today, just better hurls and better technique. Mark Fanning has his technique to a tee as did Ger Cunningham in 1990.
If you want to stop it travelling vast distances, maybe look at the rims etc but don't make the ball heavier. Most of the year is played with a wet ball.
If you want to stop rucks, throw the ball in up in the air with hurls down rather than onto the ground for everybody to crowd around as it gets stuck in a divot. As my shin show at the moment, throw ins on the ground are dangerous and a stupid way to restart a game."
Agree the rims on the O Neills sliotar used to be brutal after some rain....ball used to swerve in the air too when struck....virtual no rim on some of the new modern sliotars which makes striking and controlling the ball a lot easier...

ArmaghCat (Armagh) - Posts: 36 - 01/08/2020 19:46:07    2286062

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For me its the amount of frees which is a big issue. Free takers have there technique mastered so much that they are nearly expected to put over a free anywhere in the pitch bar the full back line, even at club level.
Alot of games have free takers on each side racking up massive scores and any close games are becoming battle of the free takers. I see on the site that Maurice Shanahan scored 1-14 out of 2-22 from frees yesterday, fair play to him for nailing them but that many stoppages in a game to take frees makes it very frustrating to watch in my opinion.
I know there is plenty of fouling in hurling that needs to be blown up but I think referees are very whistle happy and quick to give frees for any physical contact these days, which means automatic these days regardless of how far out it is.
TBH I don't know what the answer is, perhaps some frees are made indirect only, might bring about some new attacking innovation having to work a score from a free instead of the automatic strike over tha bar from the set play....

Skullduggery (Dublin) - Posts: 3 - 02/08/2020 12:34:18    2286102

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big change now a days is the rims are gone very small,i dont know anything about the aerodynamics of a hurling ball but i bet small rims make the ball travel further.

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3753 - 02/08/2020 12:40:29    2286107

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Replying To perfect10:  "big change now a days is the rims are gone very small,i dont know anything about the aerodynamics of a hurling ball but i bet small rims make the ball travel further."
Makes it easier to control too, also causes less hurleys to crack from the impact of the sliotar.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 930 - 02/08/2020 13:23:21    2286114

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Not sure if it has changed but in the past each team could play their own brand of balls. Often saw a goalie running into get a ball out of a bag and putting it into play. Can't understand how there isn't a standard ball for everyone. I also think the ball has to be slowed down a bit. Tripping a corner forward should not result in a scoring opportunity a 100m away. In the old days scoring a 65 was a great score now it is a tap over. Punishes good defensive play.

gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 129 - 02/08/2020 14:19:50    2286116

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Replying To zinny:  "The hurley boss has changed big time and has contributed to the demise of ground hurling. The length that players use also has changed. All of this has contributed to the multiple "scrums" that we see in hurling these days as its all about getting the ball in your hand. The hurling crowd don't want to admit it but ground hurling is a thing of the past, in Football they keep introducing rules to keep aspects of the game - high fielding but in hurling no concern over ground hurling. It seems as if innovation and tactics are frowned on in Football by certain "traditional" football counties espically when they are the ones not winning All Irelands."
Your right about the Hurley boss being a factor too in the distance the ball travels at, There should be a place for first time ground hurling in the game when its on (like john Fenton's goal). When I was playing underage hurling, ground hurling tournaments were organised to try to keep it in the game, but the aimless rubbish that the old traditionalists want is rightly finished in the game there was nothing more frustrating than getting on the ball with no one on you and some old lad roaring to hit it on the ground. Over head striking is the skill I miss most that seems to be missing from modern game. As for the scrums in games as long as teams are crowding the middle your going to have scrums especially with over zealous players trying to win possession.

On the ball itself, the main reason I want it changed is to help out referees with following the flow of play in the game because the ball moves so rapid and I feel the GAA at the moment are failing referees in this aspect. Another issue a different poster highlighted a few months ago is the ball is now not live in play as much anymore and that needs to be addressed too.

In fairness to the football analysts they will discuss the major flaws in football and how to correct them, the hurling analysts will mainly blame and criticise referees and officals with problems with hurling and won't address the real problems with and will try and say everything is rosey.

DUALSUPPORT (Limerick) - Posts: 640 - 02/08/2020 15:53:48    2286122

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The ball definitely needs about 25% more weight or mass to prevent it travelling so far. Hurling is getting boring at this stage . Puck out and shot is the 1-2 strategy of everyone now. There needs to be abit more play in the middle..
With frees it would be easy to make every free out side the 65 yard line indirect. That would encourage faster play and even ground hurling to restart deom a free quicker.

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1270 - 02/08/2020 16:01:37    2286123

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Replying To bloodyban:  "The ball definitely needs about 25% more weight or mass to prevent it travelling so far. Hurling is getting boring at this stage . Puck out and shot is the 1-2 strategy of everyone now. There needs to be abit more play in the middle..
With frees it would be easy to make every free out side the 65 yard line indirect. That would encourage faster play and even ground hurling to restart deom a free quicker."
It seems strange to say but even though the game is much more high scoring now, there is possibly less attacking play at either end of the field as points can be taken from so far. Indirect frees not a bad shout at all, I like that idea. Not sure about more weight on the ball though, they should definitely be standardised, if they're not already, but making them heavier isn't the answer. Not sure we want a return to ground hurling do we? If we take off the rose tinted specs, the standard has never been higher, fellas slashing away at it on the ground and giving the ball away isn't going to make it a better game.

LondainBhoy (UK) - Posts: 34 - 02/08/2020 21:31:41    2286165

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