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Could A Professional Hurling/Football League Survive In Ireland?

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Replying To lionofludesch:  "If I was Uachtaran, I'd see it as you offering to pay rent so that you could steal our customers."
That's a fair assessment and I couldn't blame you at all. You'd have to make them see that growth would benefit them too.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 1017 - 02/06/2020 18:16:27    2279752

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Replying To Breezy:  "Where's this worldwide spread coming from? Cycling, rugby, American football and probably some other sports I know nothing about are breaking their backs to go worldwide and barely making a dent so why would GAA be any different"
Ok, look at the worldwide spread of UFC. Like I said it's not easy. But it's possible.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 1017 - 02/06/2020 18:18:18    2279753

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Replying To lionofludesch:  "So, setting aside Greenandred's very valid comment, all you have to do is persuade Disney to sponsor a GAA team, get - dunno - fifteen or twenty - other sponsors, get ESPN to show it on their channel, ratings will obviously go up, Disney will make money (not sure whether the other sponsors will), crowds will flock in and everyone will be happy.

For me, it's a bit of a stretch. I don't consider myself pessimistic but I am a realist."
Disney was just an EXAMPLE and maybe a very poor one. All of this is a stretch or it would have been done by now.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 1017 - 02/06/2020 18:21:21    2279754

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Replying To lionofludesch:  "I think you could do it as "right" as you like and still fail.

The origins of most leagues were humble because the world wasn't so commercially motivated a hundred years ago."
Very very true. Everything could be done 100% correctly and still flop badly. The commercial motivation of today is what could propel such a thing.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 1017 - 02/06/2020 18:23:20    2279755

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Replying To omahant:  "We'd have to assume relations between a renegade Pro set up and GAA would not be healthy to put it mildly (it would be outright war, a la Rugby Union v League in decade past, when League was violating the 'amateur' ethos of Union (different now as both are Pro).
The gaelic Pro set up would have to rent pitches from other codes - soccer and rugby - it would be a different game - say 11-a-side on a smaller pitch, with some innovative new rules."
Yes it could be war but I doubt it. The GAA would probably be smart enough to know that huge growth would benefit them and if the Pro League failed most harm to the GAA at all.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 1017 - 02/06/2020 18:26:02    2279756

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Replying To Trump2020:  "Ok, look at the worldwide spread of UFC. Like I said it's not easy. But it's possible."
I don't hear folk in the bar talking about the next big UFC fight (even when people went into bars).

I couldn't name one UFC fighter.

Despite their contrasting views, everyone on here loves gaelic games and want them to succeed. Sometimes we assume that everyone else cares too.

Or - indeed - has the money to support both a traditional GAA competition as well as a professional league.

Will you be risking your own money, Trump ? Or is this just a project for Other People to invest in ?

lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 366 - 03/06/2020 09:51:01    2279788

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Replying To Trump2020:  "Yes it could be war but I doubt it. The GAA would probably be smart enough to know that huge growth would benefit them and if the Pro League failed most harm to the GAA at all."
How would it benefit the GAA to have another organisation taking their best players and most of their income?

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1374 - 03/06/2020 09:57:21    2279791

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Replying To lionofludesch:  "I don't hear folk in the bar talking about the next big UFC fight (even when people went into bars).

I couldn't name one UFC fighter.

Despite their contrasting views, everyone on here loves gaelic games and want them to succeed. Sometimes we assume that everyone else cares too.

Or - indeed - has the money to support both a traditional GAA competition as well as a professional league.

Will you be risking your own money, Trump ? Or is this just a project for Other People to invest in ?"
My ball park income per hurling county is 5million , if the Gaa wanted a pro hurling championship and league .
73 m total income of that 28 million is produced by 9 hurling counties ! other revenue streams , 3 million for stadium naming rights . These county boards cound raise 500k each as things stand total 35million . 30% is a pitifully target to increase income by in the new pro set up 46 million . This does not include possible ground share with league of ireland clubs , connaught rugby , or a possible rugby league team like in Cathalan ? Something similar in football ? You can not rule out doubling total income from 73 to 146 million.. ...

jfk21 (Dublin) - Posts: 51 - 03/06/2020 11:43:53    2279804

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Replying To CastleBravo:  "How would it benefit the GAA to have another organisation taking their best players and most of their income?"
It's happening already. Many potential players never play due to the cost of living. They work, or emigrate, play a different sport, etc so the GAA wouldn't miss them. Income? The GAA would still field an awesome product and they would still draw crowds and get rent from the Pros for their pitches and stadiums, etc. But maybe it would force the GAA to step up their game a bit. Is that a bad thing?

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 1017 - 03/06/2020 11:49:47    2279805

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Replying To lionofludesch:  "I don't hear folk in the bar talking about the next big UFC fight (even when people went into bars).

I couldn't name one UFC fighter.

Despite their contrasting views, everyone on here loves gaelic games and want them to succeed. Sometimes we assume that everyone else cares too.

Or - indeed - has the money to support both a traditional GAA competition as well as a professional league.

Will you be risking your own money, Trump ? Or is this just a project for Other People to invest in ?"
If you read my earlier posts this is just chat from bored people. I'm bored so I made up a topic. I have never heard anyone bring this up before. I have heard about paying the players but never a separate Pro league. Pure chat. As for investing my money I would have to hear the plan first and go from there.
The UFC is growing and one of their biggest stars is Conor McGregor surely you've heard chat in bars about him. Some bars I used to go to were very sports centric and some weren't. Some bars showed the UFC and some didn't.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 1017 - 03/06/2020 11:58:00    2279806

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Replying To lionofludesch:  "I don't hear folk in the bar talking about the next big UFC fight (even when people went into bars).

I couldn't name one UFC fighter.

Despite their contrasting views, everyone on here loves gaelic games and want them to succeed. Sometimes we assume that everyone else cares too.

Or - indeed - has the money to support both a traditional GAA competition as well as a professional league.

Will you be risking your own money, Trump ? Or is this just a project for Other People to invest in ?"
I must be onto something though judging by all the beautiful red thumbs in my honor despite me giving green thumbs to every post before I even read it. Ha ha ha.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 1017 - 03/06/2020 12:00:17    2279807

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Replying To Trump2020:  "I must be onto something though judging by all the beautiful red thumbs in my honor despite me giving green thumbs to every post before I even read it. Ha ha ha."
The point is, it's easy to be optimistic when you're not risking your own money.

Anyway, I'm finding myself making the same points in different ways..........

lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 366 - 03/06/2020 17:08:13    2279835

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Replying To Trump2020:  "Ok, look at the worldwide spread of UFC. Like I said it's not easy. But it's possible."
UFC was able to fit very neatly into a space left by pro boxing which is crumbling as a sport of popular interest. WWF isnt doing too good either these days and that had a surprisingly large adult audience which have jumped over. Also the UFC came from nothing so had nothing to lose if we are all saying UFwhat in a few years but with the GAA we are gambling with a 100+yo cultural institution

So unless soccer, rugby and the rest absolutely tank in the next few years then there is no space for GAA in the wider public outside the Irish

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1000 - 03/06/2020 18:09:07    2279841

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Replying To lionofludesch:  "The point is, it's easy to be optimistic when you're not risking your own money.

Anyway, I'm finding myself making the same points in different ways.........."
Anything worthwhile had its doubters. That's natural enough. But you brought up great points. If you were in some committee about this topic you'd have to bring up all potential problems and drawbacks.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 1017 - 03/06/2020 18:34:13    2279842

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Replying To Breezy:  "UFC was able to fit very neatly into a space left by pro boxing which is crumbling as a sport of popular interest. WWF isnt doing too good either these days and that had a surprisingly large adult audience which have jumped over. Also the UFC came from nothing so had nothing to lose if we are all saying UFwhat in a few years but with the GAA we are gambling with a 100+yo cultural institution

So unless soccer, rugby and the rest absolutely tank in the next few years then there is no space for GAA in the wider public outside the Irish"
Fair points. I see the biggest voids OUTSIDE Ireland. The biggest room for growth OUTSIDE Ireland. Too much lame stuff on that couldn't hold a candle to Hurling or Football.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 1017 - 03/06/2020 18:52:40    2279843

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Replying To Trump2020:  "Fair points. I see the biggest voids OUTSIDE Ireland. The biggest room for growth OUTSIDE Ireland. Too much lame stuff on that couldn't hold a candle to Hurling or Football."
I think there's more potential for hurling, it's a great spectacle and very different to other large sports.

I don't see anyway the parallel professional game works.

I wouldn't want it but it's not impossible that they game could move towards professionalism in a gradual way.

I think you'd be looking at an initial step being a separation of inter county from club activity and they're not made available for club selection.

There'd also have to be a more league based championship and over time an emphasis away from the casual observer to creating a more loyal fan, that purchases season tickets and attends most games.

Realistically the association has to hugely increase its revenues to make this more viable.

I know others are saying things like the wages don't need to be large at the start, start small and grow. Really that's completely wrong. It's well studied in human psychology that when people start to think about being paid for something that they immediately start to value the time properly. It's not the case that 10k a year is better than 0 therefore people will accept the 10k. No people want paid correctly for their time. A person is willing to babysit for a friend for free as part of a social contract, to pay them €2 an hour though becomes an insult.

It's also going to be the case that the salaries are going to be top heavy. The best player/biggest draws will need to get multiples of an entry salary. People will push for it too. The biggest stars will be needed to bring in the crowds and people are not typically keen on having themselves undervalued in the market place. It's not greed either. People need to look after themselves, put food on their table.

I don't think it's impossible. It's not viable short term though and the revenues would have to grow hugely from here.

It doesn't seem like a wise idea either.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3049 - 04/06/2020 17:39:15    2279896

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I think there's more potential for hurling, it's a great spectacle and very different to other large sports.

I don't see anyway the parallel professional game works.

I wouldn't want it but it's not impossible that they game could move towards professionalism in a gradual way.

I think you'd be looking at an initial step being a separation of inter county from club activity and they're not made available for club selection.

There'd also have to be a more league based championship and over time an emphasis away from the casual observer to creating a more loyal fan, that purchases season tickets and attends most games.

Realistically the association has to hugely increase its revenues to make this more viable.

I know others are saying things like the wages don't need to be large at the start, start small and grow. Really that's completely wrong. It's well studied in human psychology that when people start to think about being paid for something that they immediately start to value the time properly. It's not the case that 10k a year is better than 0 therefore people will accept the 10k. No people want paid correctly for their time. A person is willing to babysit for a friend for free as part of a social contract, to pay them €2 an hour though becomes an insult.

It's also going to be the case that the salaries are going to be top heavy. The best player/biggest draws will need to get multiples of an entry salary. People will push for it too. The biggest stars will be needed to bring in the crowds and people are not typically keen on having themselves undervalued in the market place. It's not greed either. People need to look after themselves, put food on their table.

I don't think it's impossible. It's not viable short term though and the revenues would have to grow hugely from here.

It doesn't seem like a wise idea either."
Very fair points. You could have a League minimum as far as PAY goes and also have a minimum TIME contract as in 2 or 3 years being the minimum LENGTH of contracts for lads. Of course the biggest best stars would make the most as in any Pro League. Hurling would probably have the advantage over Football but not necessarily. In Ireland Football is bigger and more widespread so it would have the advantage at least early on. Either way I think the GAA would flourish. It's too ingrained into the culture not to. As for the GAA gradually going Pro itself anything is possible.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 1017 - 04/06/2020 20:53:49    2279905

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