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Could A Professional Hurling/Football League Survive In Ireland?

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I am sorry I havent followed this from the first post. But i am not sure if anyone has said this but people seem to be thinking of this along the lines of counties. I think of we were to look at professionalism would we not need to use just clubs. Abandon the county set up or maybe keep it for a novelty competition every four years like a world cup. We see how great the AIB club championships are. a professional league should just use clubs. Therefore in areas where GAA is strong you will have more clubs, so in premier division you could have 12 clubs and 5 of these maybe dublin based. In the same way as Melbourne is a strong Aussie Rules are they have more clubs in the top league. The intercounty championship imo is dead, its madness , its like having only one club in Melbourne playing Aussie Rules, naturally they would win every year. The chickens will start to come home to roost when you are not filing croke park for all ireland finals when Dublin are going for 8 in a row. People will switch off in the same way they did with scottish soccer.

dickie10 (UK) - Posts: 687 - 17/05/2020 22:11:35    2278536

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Replying To dickie10:  "I am sorry I havent followed this from the first post. But i am not sure if anyone has said this but people seem to be thinking of this along the lines of counties. I think of we were to look at professionalism would we not need to use just clubs. Abandon the county set up or maybe keep it for a novelty competition every four years like a world cup. We see how great the AIB club championships are. a professional league should just use clubs. Therefore in areas where GAA is strong you will have more clubs, so in premier division you could have 12 clubs and 5 of these maybe dublin based. In the same way as Melbourne is a strong Aussie Rules are they have more clubs in the top league. The intercounty championship imo is dead, its madness , its like having only one club in Melbourne playing Aussie Rules, naturally they would win every year. The chickens will start to come home to roost when you are not filing croke park for all ireland finals when Dublin are going for 8 in a row. People will switch off in the same way they did with scottish soccer."
League is still a good contest. The old format (Division 1A/1B and 2A/2B) was better. Use the old format and move the League to the Spring/Summer and we'd have a good intercounty contest. Run if off alongside the Provincials followed by the All-Ireland Championship.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 738 - 17/05/2020 23:47:11    2278546

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Replying To dickie10:  "I am sorry I havent followed this from the first post. But i am not sure if anyone has said this but people seem to be thinking of this along the lines of counties. I think of we were to look at professionalism would we not need to use just clubs. Abandon the county set up or maybe keep it for a novelty competition every four years like a world cup. We see how great the AIB club championships are. a professional league should just use clubs. Therefore in areas where GAA is strong you will have more clubs, so in premier division you could have 12 clubs and 5 of these maybe dublin based. In the same way as Melbourne is a strong Aussie Rules are they have more clubs in the top league. The intercounty championship imo is dead, its madness , its like having only one club in Melbourne playing Aussie Rules, naturally they would win every year. The chickens will start to come home to roost when you are not filing croke park for all ireland finals when Dublin are going for 8 in a row. People will switch off in the same way they did with scottish soccer."
Clubs not big enough in any way to go professional. Counties are the only way you can go pro.
You cant abandon the inter county level as that's where the money is, where the real high support and interest is and that's where you compete with other major sports. Club level only cant do that.
Whatever about counties but how could clubs turn professional?
Where does income come from to run pro clubs and how many clubs would you be expecting to turn pro?
Inter county Gaelic is so far away from dead.
Dublin will lose in intercounty very soon and wont be winning all irelands

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3510 - 18/05/2020 00:46:08    2278549

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Yes, it would be great to see Dub Rovers v Dub Athletic - multiple Dub clubs like LOI, or London clubs in EPL.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2581 - 18/05/2020 01:17:06    2278550

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Replying To lionofludesch:  "Two big questions aren't being answered here.

1. Why ? What makes a professional competition better than what we have ?

2. Where are you going to play these games ? And here I set aside Rolo's claim that professional grounds have to be a higher standard because I don't think it's true anyway.

Posts mention London, Liverpool, Manchester - where is the an arena on the Big Island that could fit in a playing area 150m x 100m ?

In Ireland, what makes you think that the GAA will hire out a ground to a competitor code ?

I've other questions but these two seem to be the ones being conveniently glossed over."
I might be wrong but I think a cricket pitch is large enough to play GAA games on

DuhallowRed (Cork) - Posts: 268 - 18/05/2020 02:44:51    2278552

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Rugby split into two codes (Union and League) due to professionalism. The same may happen with GAA (say, GAA Union and renegade GAA League).

Independent 'GAA League' could be the following -
1) Pro or Semi Pro.
2) 8 franchise teams in each code.
3) Franchises controlled centrally (like US MLS).
4) 11 players on field per side.
5) Teams rent out/play at Rugby or Soccer venues.
6) Treble round robin, 21-match league.
7a) Open Draw KO Championship (2 leg QFs, SFs).
7b) Extra time if 2 legs are split (no aggregate win).
8) League & KO concurrent 7-mo season (Mar-Sep).
9) Expand to 10 teams if economicably feasible.
10) Franchises based on Cities & Prov Regions.

11a) Some playing rule changes.
11b) 45s & 65s lengthened to 55s & 85s.
11c) Allow pickup only 30 cms below the knee.
11d) Handpass needs 30 cms between ball & hand.
11e) Broken line added midway in each pitch half.
11f) Football defence must always kick ball from behind broken line to beyond midfield.
11g) No hurling score from own half, if directly from puck out, or indirectly from short puck out.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2581 - 18/05/2020 03:33:09    2278553

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why don't we just apply to enter a few teams in the AFL?

Rosineri1 (UK) - Posts: 2099 - 18/05/2020 09:52:55    2278562

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Replying To DuhallowRed:  "I might be wrong but I think a cricket pitch is large enough to play GAA games on"
Good point - though I'm not sure there's many 130m across.

In any case, I'd be surprised if a professional cricket club let you use it. It's one thing playing on a cricket pitch in Aistralia, quite another in England.

lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 475 - 18/05/2020 10:10:07    2278566

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Replying To dickie10:  "I am sorry I havent followed this from the first post. But i am not sure if anyone has said this but people seem to be thinking of this along the lines of counties. I think of we were to look at professionalism would we not need to use just clubs. Abandon the county set up or maybe keep it for a novelty competition every four years like a world cup. We see how great the AIB club championships are. a professional league should just use clubs. Therefore in areas where GAA is strong you will have more clubs, so in premier division you could have 12 clubs and 5 of these maybe dublin based. In the same way as Melbourne is a strong Aussie Rules are they have more clubs in the top league. The intercounty championship imo is dead, its madness , its like having only one club in Melbourne playing Aussie Rules, naturally they would win every year. The chickens will start to come home to roost when you are not filing croke park for all ireland finals when Dublin are going for 8 in a row. People will switch off in the same way they did with scottish soccer."
I'm not sure I agree with you. Hurling held its own when Kilkenny were winning everything at every level. Other counties will just have to up their game if they're going to beat Dublin.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2119 - 18/05/2020 11:31:39    2278581

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Replying To Trump2020:  "I'm not sure I agree with you. Hurling held its own when Kilkenny were winning everything at every level. Other counties will just have to up their game if they're going to beat Dublin."
Though were kilkenny doing it at all Ireland level at all levels?
4 u21 all irelands since 2000. 5 minor titles since 2000.
Yes they were winning everything in leinster but not like Dublin who only have 5 u20/21 all irelands and 4 of them have came since 2010.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3510 - 18/05/2020 16:10:30    2278619

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Though were kilkenny doing it at all Ireland level at all levels?
4 u21 all irelands since 2000. 5 minor titles since 2000.
Yes they were winning everything in leinster but not like Dublin who only have 5 u20/21 all irelands and 4 of them have came since 2010."
Don't forget St Kieran's winning so much too. Yes I see what you mean about Dublin's dominance. It's good for the GAA in a sense but maybe bad for the overall sport.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2119 - 18/05/2020 17:39:52    2278621

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Though were kilkenny doing it at all Ireland level at all levels?
4 u21 all irelands since 2000. 5 minor titles since 2000.
Yes they were winning everything in leinster but not like Dublin who only have 5 u20/21 all irelands and 4 of them have came since 2010."
Dublins population has increased by near 300k since 1995 . The gaa has gaining in popularity at an unprecedented rate in the county since then , when you factor in about a half million Poles Latvians and Cavan men living in the city who's children will be raised as Dubs the talent pool is only getting bigger . Most counties can forget about competing . People who talk about split Dublin because of its size and refuse to consider amalgamation of the small and weak are totaly illogical . You can't split Dublin because of its size and not split Cork with its huge 550 k population by the same criteria . The population demographics are great for Kildare Meath and Wicklow into the future by the way . Brazil win the world cup along with the other big countries of 50 + millions not Malta and nobody complains . Bigger is better in all sports its unfair but that's life.

jfk21 (Dublin) - Posts: 51 - 18/05/2020 18:43:22    2278625

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Replying To jfk21:  "Dublins population has increased by near 300k since 1995 . The gaa has gaining in popularity at an unprecedented rate in the county since then , when you factor in about a half million Poles Latvians and Cavan men living in the city who's children will be raised as Dubs the talent pool is only getting bigger . Most counties can forget about competing . People who talk about split Dublin because of its size and refuse to consider amalgamation of the small and weak are totaly illogical . You can't split Dublin because of its size and not split Cork with its huge 550 k population by the same criteria . The population demographics are great for Kildare Meath and Wicklow into the future by the way . Brazil win the world cup along with the other big countries of 50 + millions not Malta and nobody complains . Bigger is better in all sports its unfair but that's life."
Assuming those kids growing up in those counties are raised to support those counties instead of Dublin by their Dub parents.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 738 - 18/05/2020 19:09:29    2278628

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Replying To jfk21:  "Dublins population has increased by near 300k since 1995 . The gaa has gaining in popularity at an unprecedented rate in the county since then , when you factor in about a half million Poles Latvians and Cavan men living in the city who's children will be raised as Dubs the talent pool is only getting bigger . Most counties can forget about competing . People who talk about split Dublin because of its size and refuse to consider amalgamation of the small and weak are totaly illogical . You can't split Dublin because of its size and not split Cork with its huge 550 k population by the same criteria . The population demographics are great for Kildare Meath and Wicklow into the future by the way . Brazil win the world cup along with the other big countries of 50 + millions not Malta and nobody complains . Bigger is better in all sports its unfair but that's life."
You can split Dublin and not cork. Because of rate of success etc of the two. Cork doesn't need to be split because it isnt totally dominant because of its population etc.
Amalgamation isnt the answer as some counties have never been competitive and never will.
Ultimately a tiered competition should be in place. No reason division 4 sides should be playing often against division 1 sides

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3510 - 18/05/2020 20:10:48    2278632

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "Assuming those kids growing up in those counties are raised to support those counties instead of Dublin by their Dub parents."
There won't be many kids wearing Gdansk Emmets or Riga Sarsfield jersies in fairness. We're in Meath and still getting our two girls 4 and 10 to wear Mayo jersies, and both Dublin-born! Their jersies might change and their sports or even no sports but it's great that they show some interest when 2020 has lots of distractions for children. Sure if Dublin have had and still have advantages can't we get fired up to take them down sooner rather than later no matter what county it will eventually be.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7344 - 18/05/2020 20:11:23    2278633

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "Assuming those kids growing up in those counties are raised to support those counties instead of Dublin by their Dub parents."
What would the current rules allow? Wouldn't they have to play for Dublin?

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2119 - 18/05/2020 20:23:25    2278635

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "Assuming those kids growing up in those counties are raised to support those counties instead of Dublin by their Dub parents."
Well if the Dublin team of the future has lots of Nass Navan Newbridge player on it . Thats the current system finished . County system dead

jfk21 (Dublin) - Posts: 51 - 18/05/2020 20:30:32    2278637

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Replying To Trump2020:  "Don't forget St Kieran's winning so much too. Yes I see what you mean about Dublin's dominance. It's good for the GAA in a sense but maybe bad for the overall sport."
There's no maybe about it. Attendances in Leinster have plummeted. It's not just Dublin though. Gone are the days when Limerick would pull in a decent crowd for the football. Same for the weaker counties in Connacht.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 738 - 18/05/2020 20:43:40    2278641

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Replying To jfk21:  "Well if the Dublin team of the future has lots of Nass Navan Newbridge player on it . Thats the current system finished . County system dead"
I was a bit harsh there. It's only a minority of fans. It's mostly the border towns. County system is dying regardless of what the GAA does.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 738 - 18/05/2020 20:48:19    2278642

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "There's no maybe about it. Attendances in Leinster have plummeted. It's not just Dublin though. Gone are the days when Limerick would pull in a decent crowd for the football. Same for the weaker counties in Connacht."
The joe mcdonagh is a good compitition, try 2 football championships with 4 up and 4 down . This give all county somthing to play for . The gap it hurling team standards is more noticeable maybe weak football team have a wee bit of delusions of grandeur and always hoped for more that was ever possible . 4 down from the 1st champions would make good viewing and give near all the second championship a clear aim

jfk21 (Dublin) - Posts: 51 - 18/05/2020 21:23:00    2278646

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