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Watching the 1980 All Ireland final back last week and the 1990 final today I'm wondering when/if the sliotar has become lighter.
I played most of my hurling (from u16 up) from 1988 to 2010 ish. I do think the sliotar has changed from the late 80's. However, it was seldom back then we used new sliotars. I also remember a conversation in school about how a new sliotar travelled much further than an old sliotar. So is this the difference.
The 1980 All Ireland the sliotar travelled on average 40-50 meters in paly. The puckouts went a lot further though.
The 1990 All Ireland final the sliotar definitely travelled more. The puck outs seemed to go as far as far as todays - well very close anyway.
I personally think that the sliotar is the same weight (ad the early 90's) but the inside of the sliotar may be a bit softer. However, I think by far the biggest change is skill, strength and the hurley?
Does anyone have actual facts to back up that the sliotar specification has changed? I'd love to know.
Seeking_silver (Limerick) - Posts: 411 - 05/04/2020 18:01:05
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Replying To Seeking_silver: "Watching the 1980 All Ireland final back last week and the 1990 final today I'm wondering when/if the sliotar has become lighter.
I played most of my hurling (from u16 up) from 1988 to 2010 ish. I do think the sliotar has changed from the late 80's. However, it was seldom back then we used new sliotars. I also remember a conversation in school about how a new sliotar travelled much further than an old sliotar. So is this the difference.
The 1980 All Ireland the sliotar travelled on average 40-50 meters in paly. The puckouts went a lot further though.
The 1990 All Ireland final the sliotar definitely travelled more. The puck outs seemed to go as far as far as todays - well very close anyway.
I personally think that the sliotar is the same weight (ad the early 90's) but the inside of the sliotar may be a bit softer. However, I think by far the biggest change is skill, strength and the hurley?
Does anyone have actual facts to back up that the sliotar specification has changed? I'd love to know." I read an article a few years ago (which I can't find) where it said the weight has actually increased and not decreased.
I've found old sliothars at home (that were dry) and I'd be inclined to agree with that but can't back it up.
The quality of the sliothar has improved, as has the hurl and the physical conditioning of the players.
Slightly off topic but players back in the old days could not hit a ball on the run the way players do at all levels these days. The sliiothar may have some impact on that but I believe it's more down to the skill level and also probably the hurl quality.
tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 06/04/2020 06:26:58
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https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/john-allen-sliotar-dimensions-much-ado-about-nothing-1.2645802
Interesting. Allen suggests the a heavier sliothar may actually go further...
tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 06/04/2020 06:30:23
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I think the improvement in hurls is a bigger reason for longer striking.
The average bas of a hurl today looks like a goalie's hurl from the 80s and 90s.
Bigger bas means better contact and much less mishit strikes which were common in matches in the 80s and 90s.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13707 - 06/04/2020 10:18:42
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Reckon goalkeepers just have the technique to a tee.
Never mind babs talking about a lighter ball. Yes it travels a long way in the summer, but for 10 months of the year it doesn't travel that far.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 06/04/2020 10:52:33
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going slightly off topic I think a lot of how the game has evolved is now down to the way data on a game can be captured & analysed. Stats on who is or isn't winning possession, taking scoring chances, making tackles, blocks etc can all be determined in an instant. Personally I think this is to the game's detriment. Data analysts now determine how a team attempts to play. Wing Cmdr Charles Reep helped spoil the game of soccer with his over analysis. Something a number of managers including Graham Taylor and Jack Charlton were happy to buy into. Let's see what impact this new yellow ball with its embedded micro-chip will have on hurling.
Maroonatic (Galway) - Posts: 1060 - 06/04/2020 11:53:59
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Replying To StoreysTash: "Reckon goalkeepers just have the technique to a tee.
Never mind babs talking about a lighter ball. Yes it travels a long way in the summer, but for 10 months of the year it doesn't travel that far." Careful - you're talking us into summer and winter weights.
Like duvets.
lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 475 - 06/04/2020 12:10:24
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Not alone have hurley's improved but the physical strength and technique has come on alot in the last 10 to 15 years . Its constantly evolving. However the ball travels too far.
Its getting boring watching every free being attempt at a score. Half of which go wide but all having the distance. The ball needs to be made larger aswell as heavier and scientifically that extra mass and volume would decrease distance gained. It need not be much. I'm not talking about a rounders type ball but it needs to be in the region of 15% to 20% larger and heavier. Goalies hurleys also need to be checked each game. This never happens and theres goalies with frying pan sized bas's.
bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 06/04/2020 15:10:13
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Replying To bloodyban: "Not alone have hurley's improved but the physical strength and technique has come on alot in the last 10 to 15 years . Its constantly evolving. However the ball travels too far.
Its getting boring watching every free being attempt at a score. Half of which go wide but all having the distance. The ball needs to be made larger aswell as heavier and scientifically that extra mass and volume would decrease distance gained. It need not be much. I'm not talking about a rounders type ball but it needs to be in the region of 15% to 20% larger and heavier. Goalies hurleys also need to be checked each game. This never happens and theres goalies with frying pan sized bas's." Hurleys are generally shorter these days so that should technically reduce the distance of a shot. All hurley bas's are too big now. There doesnt appear to be any limit on bas size which increases the accuracy of shots. Also the ball is more moisture resistant now so the weight doesnt really change on a damp day.
ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 06/04/2020 17:54:12
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Replying To ZUL10: "Hurleys are generally shorter these days so that should technically reduce the distance of a shot. All hurley bas's are too big now. There doesnt appear to be any limit on bas size which increases the accuracy of shots. Also the ball is more moisture resistant now so the weight doesnt really change on a damp day." There is a limit on bas size - a maximum width of 13cm - but it's not being enforced. Here's an article all about it from seven year's ago:
https://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/time-to-enforce-rule-on-hurley-size-or-scrap-it-29587179.html
Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2466 - 06/04/2020 22:35:54
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I'll say something sacrilegious now....... I think the extra distance the ball (for whatever reason) is travelling could potentially ruin the game.
For all the hype about the great games of the last couple of years I am not overly enjoying them. Lots of 70 yard points and a not enough man on man battles or going into contact.
Galway Tipp trilogy was brilliant. But hurling possession game is starting to bore me. Teams can take scores from so far it leads to less battles.
Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1829 - 06/04/2020 22:46:43
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Ok. I did a bit of research into this today. My young lad has 4-5 hurleys that he regularly uses. He's 6'2" and is u15 this year. All are 32" and reasonably light - compared to what I used to play with. All hurleys have a mark on "the sweet spot" left and right side from where he strikes the sliotar. His right side is stronger and interestingly the mark on the RHS of the bas (from hitting it with his weaker left) is about 15mm more in diameter which indicates he's not consistently hitting thE same spot on the bad. His strike of a ball is far better than mine & most of my playing colleagues ever was. Between school, club and county development he's hurling 7 days a week. The co development has hugely increased his skill level. As I type here I have a size 5 sliotar bedside me. It's every bit as heavy (IMO) as the new sliotars we used growing up. However, if it gets wet it will stay close to the same weight. That's a big difference from the 30 years ago.
But ultimately, when commentators say the ball is much lighter nowadays I think they are incorrect. It's skill, technique, strength & the hurley.
I certainly don't agree with making the sliotar any heavier or bigger as you can't catch it then. If any of you ever tried playing baseball in the US you would know. Try catching a baseball without a glove and your hand will know all about it. Again to catch a sliotar you have to catch with the right part of your hand. Other than that it will bounce out and probably hurt.
Interestingly, a senior camogie sliotar is size 4 which is a descent bit smaller and lighter. I can hit a men's size 5 further.
Seeking_silver (Limerick) - Posts: 411 - 07/04/2020 01:52:09
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Replying To Mayonman: "I'll say something sacrilegious now....... I think the extra distance the ball (for whatever reason) is travelling could potentially ruin the game.
For all the hype about the great games of the last couple of years I am not overly enjoying them. Lots of 70 yard points and a not enough man on man battles or going into contact.
Galway Tipp trilogy was brilliant. But hurling possession game is starting to bore me. Teams can take scores from so far it leads to less battles." Not sacrilegious at all. The bunching can be hard to watch. If long distance puck outs and too-commonplace point-scoring from long distance is here to stay (as it seems it is, since there's no resolve to address these issues) then we should be reducing the numbers to 13 a side because midfield as a position is not needed anymore.
PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1903 - 07/04/2020 08:28:58
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Replying To Seeking_silver: "Ok. I did a bit of research into this today. My young lad has 4-5 hurleys that he regularly uses. He's 6'2" and is u15 this year. All are 32" and reasonably light - compared to what I used to play with. All hurleys have a mark on "the sweet spot" left and right side from where he strikes the sliotar. His right side is stronger and interestingly the mark on the RHS of the bas (from hitting it with his weaker left) is about 15mm more in diameter which indicates he's not consistently hitting thE same spot on the bad. His strike of a ball is far better than mine & most of my playing colleagues ever was. Between school, club and county development he's hurling 7 days a week. The co development has hugely increased his skill level. As I type here I have a size 5 sliotar bedside me. It's every bit as heavy (IMO) as the new sliotars we used growing up. However, if it gets wet it will stay close to the same weight. That's a big difference from the 30 years ago.
But ultimately, when commentators say the ball is much lighter nowadays I think they are incorrect. It's skill, technique, strength & the hurley.
I certainly don't agree with making the sliotar any heavier or bigger as you can't catch it then. If any of you ever tried playing baseball in the US you would know. Try catching a baseball without a glove and your hand will know all about it. Again to catch a sliotar you have to catch with the right part of your hand. Other than that it will bounce out and probably hurt.
Interestingly, a senior camogie sliotar is size 4 which is a descent bit smaller and lighter. I can hit a men's size 5 further." A size 4 sliotar does have a tendency to tail away and drop short alright.
A question on hurley size... was his choice of 32" hurleys based on recommendation of any of his coaches or by his peers?
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1909 - 07/04/2020 10:28:12
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Replying To Seeking_silver: "Ok. I did a bit of research into this today. My young lad has 4-5 hurleys that he regularly uses. He's 6'2" and is u15 this year. All are 32" and reasonably light - compared to what I used to play with. All hurleys have a mark on "the sweet spot" left and right side from where he strikes the sliotar. His right side is stronger and interestingly the mark on the RHS of the bas (from hitting it with his weaker left) is about 15mm more in diameter which indicates he's not consistently hitting thE same spot on the bad. His strike of a ball is far better than mine & most of my playing colleagues ever was. Between school, club and county development he's hurling 7 days a week. The co development has hugely increased his skill level. As I type here I have a size 5 sliotar bedside me. It's every bit as heavy (IMO) as the new sliotars we used growing up. However, if it gets wet it will stay close to the same weight. That's a big difference from the 30 years ago.
But ultimately, when commentators say the ball is much lighter nowadays I think they are incorrect. It's skill, technique, strength & the hurley.
I certainly don't agree with making the sliotar any heavier or bigger as you can't catch it then. If any of you ever tried playing baseball in the US you would know. Try catching a baseball without a glove and your hand will know all about it. Again to catch a sliotar you have to catch with the right part of your hand. Other than that it will bounce out and probably hurt.
Interestingly, a senior camogie sliotar is size 4 which is a descent bit smaller and lighter. I can hit a men's size 5 further." Jaysus - 6'2" and U15 ?
What are you feeding him on ?
lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 475 - 07/04/2020 11:29:03
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Replying To PoolSturgeon: "Not sacrilegious at all. The bunching can be hard to watch. If long distance puck outs and too-commonplace point-scoring from long distance is here to stay (as it seems it is, since there's no resolve to address these issues) then we should be reducing the numbers to 13 a side because midfield as a position is not needed anymore." "midfield as a position is not needed anymore."
Tell that to 2018s HOTY
Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 07/04/2020 12:10:55
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Replying To Bon: "A size 4 sliotar does have a tendency to tail away and drop short alright.
A question on hurley size... was his choice of 32" hurleys based on recommendation of any of his coaches or by his peers?" I would say mainly the Co Development coaches but also his peers. Apparently the smaller the better. The ground stroke is seldom used so length is no longer an issue. It's all skill and flicks in the wrists so less is more.
Seeking_silver (Limerick) - Posts: 411 - 07/04/2020 13:49:53
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Replying To lionofludesch: "Jaysus - 6'2" and U15 ?
What are you feeding him on ?" Lol. He eats a lot but would have a pretty heathy diet. In Fairness he just scraped U15 by a few weeks so he has an advantage there. There are lads on his team taller and stronger than him also.
Seeking_silver (Limerick) - Posts: 411 - 07/04/2020 13:55:06
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Replying To PoolSturgeon: "Not sacrilegious at all. The bunching can be hard to watch. If long distance puck outs and too-commonplace point-scoring from long distance is here to stay (as it seems it is, since there's no resolve to address these issues) then we should be reducing the numbers to 13 a side because midfield as a position is not needed anymore." No midfielders?? The middle third is the busiest part of a hurling match.
Seeking_silver (Limerick) - Posts: 411 - 07/04/2020 13:57:17
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Replying To Breezy: ""midfield as a position is not needed anymore."
Tell that to 2018s HOTY" You can be HOTY and MOTM playing midfield in the modern game cos you have to have a good engine to cover every blade of grass to play there but since bunching and rucks and swarming is an unattractive part of our game imo going 13 a side could improve it as a spectacle. Theres no such thing as midfield anymore in terms of a defined position , theres a middle 8, and if the 2 who are nominally in the middle were taken out of it to make 13 a side at least there would be far less bunching and fewer rucks.
PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1903 - 07/04/2020 14:17:02
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