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6 Team Leinster Cship

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Replying To Canuck:  "These drop ins to present medals and give talks are a nice gesture but not going to make a difference. Yes you are correct in some cases some do stay to coach but the county itself and the GAA need to add resources so these top people have the support. No one can do it on their own no matter how good they are."
At the end of the day its about increasing participation in the sport by kids and the biggest issue with that in a lot of these counties is the GAA itself i.e football in as much the same way that in Hurling counties the biggest issue is Hurling. The other aspect that people ignore is the unwillingness of the bigger counties to agree that the game needs to crack down on dangerous play. Look at the reaction of some people to yellow and red cards. Parents watching the game will not let their kids go near it. The same issues occur with Rugby - so for me that is where the big hurling counties are at fault, they have a fan and player base that accepts it and therefore unwilling to do anything about it.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1804 - 08/03/2020 10:17:55    2272766

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Replying To extranjero:  "You're right. And more power to them, they're doing more for the game than I ever can or will do.

But that's not the point I was making.

All I'm suggesting is, in my opinion, or I should say from my own personal experience, there's a not insignificant amount of Munster hurling fans who come across as,
at best indifferent,
and at worst,
outright hostile to,
hurling outside of their province.

That's all.
Let this not come across as a slight on any particular poster here (far from it).
I'm not trying to criticise, it's merely an observation."
You might get alot of Munster hurling fans slagging with Leinster fans about how much better we are.

But do not confuse this with Munster fans not wanting to see the sport grow. I've never met one that isn't just as happy as everyone else when a smaller team does well. All the ones I know we're happy for Carlow, Dublin and Laois when they had their big wins/draws last year and would love to see Kerry win JoeMcD

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 08/03/2020 13:23:18    2272800

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "If you read Nicky Rackards biography he went to Kierans and the Kilkenny lads there had a great influence on him. In Wexford football and even cricket were more popular sports at the time.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 888 - 07/03/2020 20:04:27

Cricket was more popular than hurling in Wexford in the 1930/40's ? I find that hard to believe."
Read the biography. I couldn't believe it myself. His father was a keen cricketer. The biography is a great read by the way. Deals with all kinds of things. And a great insight on hurling at the time. When it was far more "cynical" and "dirty" than it is now (a genuine hard man's game for the 70 minutes but usually left out on the pitch- handshakes and maybe pints afterwards). The famous lift off the pitch for Christie Ring being a case in point. And no1 bleated on about a need for black cards.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11799 - 08/03/2020 14:20:13    2272812

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "If you read Nicky Rackards biography he went to Kierans and the Kilkenny lads there had a great influence on him. In Wexford football and even cricket were more popular sports at the time.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 888 - 07/03/2020 20:04:27

Cricket was more popular than hurling in Wexford in the 1930/40's ? I find that hard to believe."
One of your legendary hard men Pat Diamond Hayden features prominently!!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11799 - 08/03/2020 14:22:21    2272813

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Replying To Viking66:  "
Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "If you read Nicky Rackards biography he went to Kierans and the Kilkenny lads there had a great influence on him. In Wexford football and even cricket were more popular sports at the time.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 888 - 07/03/2020 20:04:27

Cricket was more popular than hurling in Wexford in the 1930/40's ? I find that hard to believe."
Read the biography. I couldn't believe it myself. His father was a keen cricketer. The biography is a great read by the way. Deals with all kinds of things. And a great insight on hurling at the time. When it was far more "cynical" and "dirty" than it is now (a genuine hard man's game for the 70 minutes but usually left out on the pitch- handshakes and maybe pints afterwards). The famous lift off the pitch for Christie Ring being a case in point. And no1 bleated on about a need for black cards."
I knew cricket was widely played in in Kilkenny up until the Second World War.

https://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/the-history-of-cricket-in-county-kilkenny-the-forgotten-game/

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2454 - 08/03/2020 15:49:07    2272827

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Replying To extranjero:  "You're right. And more power to them, they're doing more for the game than I ever can or will do.

But that's not the point I was making.

All I'm suggesting is, in my opinion, or I should say from my own personal experience, there's a not insignificant amount of Munster hurling fans who come across as,
at best indifferent,
and at worst,
outright hostile to,
hurling outside of their province.

That's all.
Let this not come across as a slight on any particular poster here (far from it).
I'm not trying to criticise, it's merely an observation."
There's a very obvious anti munster trend on here for last few years from some wexford supporters. Regardless of the conversation being had you come back to that a lot of the time. Makes having a proper debate difficult when you focus consistently on what county the other poster is from.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 08/03/2020 19:58:11    2272883

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Replying To Viking66:  "Paudie Butler worked with our hurlers a few years ago?"
Yes I believe he did some work and liam dunne wanted him involved with the senior team but GAA blocked it.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 08/03/2020 20:00:42    2272886

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Replying To tiobraid:  "There's a very obvious anti munster trend on here for last few years from some wexford supporters. Regardless of the conversation being had you come back to that a lot of the time. Makes having a proper debate difficult when you focus consistently on what county the other poster is from."
The Munster set up has not been favourable to Limerick, Clare and Waterford. In my life time the amount of good teams Waterford has had and what have we to show for it. If you could not get out of Munster you were not going be in An All-Ireland. If you just break out the odd time you were ill equipped to succeed. Look at how many semi-finals we appeared once a path opened to get there.
The other side of the coin is that for long periods Leinster was a two horse race and even a one horse race. Not taking from Kilkenny's greatest but for long periods only need one meaningful game to get to a final. Thus the numbers of All-Ireland. This is not been anti Leinster or Kilkenny as I have seen as many great games as ever in Munster but speaks to the task of getting up the hill.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2658 - 08/03/2020 20:32:05    2272895

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Replying To tiobraid:  "There's a very obvious anti munster trend on here for last few years from some wexford supporters. Regardless of the conversation being had you come back to that a lot of the time. Makes having a proper debate difficult when you focus consistently on what county the other poster is from."
So... You're complaining specifically about Wexican posters, while simultaneously decrying others who complain specifically about other countys?

extranjero (Wexford) - Posts: 375 - 08/03/2020 21:41:12    2272913

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Replying To Viking66:  "Think you are missing the point about hurling in Kerry. Kerry hurling is based on a small number of clubs situated largely in North Kerry. It isn't up to the other 5 counties in Munster to grow the game in the rest of Kerry and it isn't their fault that it's so hard to encourage young lads from the rest of the county to devote themselves to hurling when they come from the most successful football county in Ireland. It's hard to break tradition. The tradition in Kerry is kids growing up playing football idolising their footballing heroes. This is why Kerry dont have great underage hurling success. Most underage players in the county would rather play football. To say that is the fault of the other 5 counties in Munster at county board level or any other level is just missing the obvious. Most hurling people in any county would love every young fella in the country to take up the sport. That transcends county boundaries and rivalries. If you read Nicky Rackards biography he went to Kierans and the Kilkenny lads there had a great influence on him. In Wexford football and even cricket were more popular sports at the time."
I think you are doing Kerry hurling a bit of a disservice there. Very few counties in Ireland operate at the high level that Kerry football and Kerry hurling operate at on the county scene. While Kerry are very much a tier 2 hurling team, they would be near the top of Tier 2 hurling.

With the exception of huge cities like Dublin, Cork and Galway how many other counties can say they have their football team near top of division 1 football and in division 2 hurling final next week. Clare would be another example in football and hurling.

I could make a lot of counties who 'think' they are football counties (stuck in divisio 2, 3 and 4) yet give absolutely no time to promoting hurling in their respective counties.

Kerry are doing fine.

Past hurler (None) - Posts: 723 - 08/03/2020 21:47:46    2272915

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Replying To Canuck:  "The Munster set up has not been favourable to Limerick, Clare and Waterford. In my life time the amount of good teams Waterford has had and what have we to show for it. If you could not get out of Munster you were not going be in An All-Ireland. If you just break out the odd time you were ill equipped to succeed. Look at how many semi-finals we appeared once a path opened to get there.
The other side of the coin is that for long periods Leinster was a two horse race and even a one horse race. Not taking from Kilkenny's greatest but for long periods only need one meaningful game to get to a final. Thus the numbers of All-Ireland. This is not been anti Leinster or Kilkenny as I have seen as many great games as ever in Munster but speaks to the task of getting up the hill."
"If you could not get out of Munster you were not going be in An All-Ireland"

And how was it any different in Leinster?

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2454 - 08/03/2020 21:49:07    2272916

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  ""If you could not get out of Munster you were not going be in An All-Ireland"

And how was it any different in Leinster?"
The difficulty , competitiveness what ever you want to call it in winning Munster. Not trying to make any point about the quality etc.of the game in Leinster. This is just the way it was as the provincial structure was set up and the only path to the All Ireland series. If you think I am trying to minimize the achievement of any of the great Kilkenny,Wexford and Offaly teams I am not. Just that collectively the others would not have been as strong as Kilkenny at a given time in history. The statistics are there to show that.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2658 - 08/03/2020 23:29:14    2272935

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Replying To Past hurler:  "I think you are doing Kerry hurling a bit of a disservice there. Very few counties in Ireland operate at the high level that Kerry football and Kerry hurling operate at on the county scene. While Kerry are very much a tier 2 hurling team, they would be near the top of Tier 2 hurling.

With the exception of huge cities like Dublin, Cork and Galway how many other counties can say they have their football team near top of division 1 football and in division 2 hurling final next week. Clare would be another example in football and hurling.

I could make a lot of counties who 'think' they are football counties (stuck in divisio 2, 3 and 4) yet give absolutely no time to promoting hurling in their respective counties.

Kerry are doing fine."
I'm a big supporter of counties like Kerry. The point I was making though is that the reason they aren't in the Munster championship isn't because the other 5 counties are trying to keep them down. And that part of the reason for it is they dont have the numbers playing hurling at club level that the other 5 counties have.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11799 - 09/03/2020 06:29:50    2272939

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A lot of the posts are gone a bit off topic at this stage!

In favor
To develop Hurling in these counties they need to be playing more competitive games and the five team structure means that after one year they are likely to be demoted and therefore do not really gain as much from it as they should.

Against
The gap between the top and bottom tier is quite wide and all they will do is take hammerings year after year and never go down if they can beat the team that just came up. Its not developing either of the counties and devalues the top tier championship. They are already in the top tier in the league so that should give them competitive games.

The arguments about the league are a bit on the thin side - the game may be competitive but hardly going to bring on anyones standard of hurling. I assume people can remember the state of pitches and the weather that the league was played in this year? So what you want t do is tell these teams to slug it out in the mud in winter as a way to develop hurling in the county.
Someone coming up each year means that someone has to be demoted which will most likely be the team that came up the previous year so what then? expand it to 7? How do you decide enough is enough

Ultimately this is about developing the game of Hurling. I would question that doing this at Senior level without development at all the age group levels makes sense. Minor includes these teams in a league structure but then U20 is knockout? before someone plays competitive at senior surly they need to be playing more competitive games at that level? I see the same problem in Football - the bridge between Minor and Senior - U20 is being treated as if it doesn't exist. Anyway there are a lot more reason why Hurling and Football for that matter doesn't develop in counties other than this but they get ignored.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1804 - 09/03/2020 07:58:26    2272942

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Replying To tiobraid:  "Yes I believe he did some work and liam dunne wanted him involved with the senior team but GAA blocked it."
1. He was the National Hurling Development Officer, Wexford senior hurlers shouldn't really be needing his services.

2. It's a long established rule that employees of the GAA aren't allowed get into management, due to potential conflicts of interest and amateurism rules. John Evans was blocked from holding 2 jobs with Tipperary GAA for the same reason.

You're making it sound like the big bad GAA were standing in the way of hurling development.

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1643 - 09/03/2020 10:16:09    2272961

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Replying To Canuck:  "
Replying To Cockney_Cat:  ""If you could not get out of Munster you were not going be in An All-Ireland"

And how was it any different in Leinster?"
The difficulty , competitiveness what ever you want to call it in winning Munster. Not trying to make any point about the quality etc.of the game in Leinster. This is just the way it was as the provincial structure was set up and the only path to the All Ireland series. If you think I am trying to minimize the achievement of any of the great Kilkenny,Wexford and Offaly teams I am not. Just that collectively the others would not have been as strong as Kilkenny at a given time in history. The statistics are there to show that."
You haven't answered my simple question, just written a load of unconnected waffle.

I repeat. You said "If you could not get out of Munster you were not going be in An All-Ireland" How is it any different to Leinster?

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2454 - 09/03/2020 10:50:09    2272975

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "
Replying To Canuck:  "[quote=Cockney_Cat:  ""If you could not get out of Munster you were not going be in An All-Ireland"

And how was it any different in Leinster?"
The difficulty , competitiveness what ever you want to call it in winning Munster. Not trying to make any point about the quality etc.of the game in Leinster. This is just the way it was as the provincial structure was set up and the only path to the All Ireland series. If you think I am trying to minimize the achievement of any of the great Kilkenny,Wexford and Offaly teams I am not. Just that collectively the others would not have been as strong as Kilkenny at a given time in history. The statistics are there to show that."
You haven't answered my simple question, just written a load of unconnected waffle.

I repeat. You said "If you could not get out of Munster you were not going be in An All-Ireland" How is it any different to Leinster?"]What part don't you get ? If it is easier passage through you province especially when it was knock out, your chances of winning All-Ireland are greater as you will be in more. Saying that Kilkenny had to be good enough win them when getting there and were.
Further proof of that disparity is Waterford would be regarded as the weaker of the big five in Munster always. When Galway operated in Munster take a look at their record in the championship against Waterford. When they went to Leinster contenders straight away.
What I have noticed always you like to launch personnel attack on opinion expressed. Your dislike for Waterford is always apparent but that is your right. Actually you remind me of years ago when I could not go to one of our Munster championship games deciding to watch the game in the local (Kilkenny) with friends and neighbours and was amazed at the screaming for the opposition to win and calls of as long as those b--tards don't win it is fine. Lived there for 15 years, supported and admired their hurling.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2658 - 09/03/2020 14:20:44    2273033

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Replying To Canuck:  "
Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "[quote=Canuck:  "[quote=Cockney_Cat:  ""If you could not get out of Munster you were not going be in An All-Ireland"

And how was it any different in Leinster?"
The difficulty , competitiveness what ever you want to call it in winning Munster. Not trying to make any point about the quality etc.of the game in Leinster. This is just the way it was as the provincial structure was set up and the only path to the All Ireland series. If you think I am trying to minimize the achievement of any of the great Kilkenny,Wexford and Offaly teams I am not. Just that collectively the others would not have been as strong as Kilkenny at a given time in history. The statistics are there to show that."
You haven't answered my simple question, just written a load of unconnected waffle.

I repeat. You said "If you could not get out of Munster you were not going be in An All-Ireland" How is it any different to Leinster?"]What part don't you get ? If it is easier passage through you province especially when it was knock out, your chances of winning All-Ireland are greater as you will be in more. Saying that Kilkenny had to be good enough win them when getting there and were.
Further proof of that disparity is Waterford would be regarded as the weaker of the big five in Munster always. When Galway operated in Munster take a look at their record in the championship against Waterford. When they went to Leinster contenders straight away.
What I have noticed always you like to launch personnel attack on opinion expressed. Your dislike for Waterford is always apparent but that is your right. Actually you remind me of years ago when I could not go to one of our Munster championship games deciding to watch the game in the local (Kilkenny) with friends and neighbours and was amazed at the screaming for the opposition to win and calls of as long as those b--tards don't win it is fine. Lived there for 15 years, supported and admired their hurling."]Again! What are you waffling on about? You said:

"If you could not get out of Munster you were not going be in An All-Ireland" Name me a team that's never got out out of Leinster that won an All-Ireland?

"What I have noticed always you like to launch personnel attack on opinion expressed."

I asked you a question.

"Your dislike for Waterford is always apparent but that is your right."

Apparent dislike for Wateford?

"Actually you remind me of years ago when I could not go to one of our Munster championship games deciding to watch the game in the local (Kilkenny) with friends and neighbours and was amazed at the screaming for the opposition to win and calls of as long as those b--tards don't win it is fine."


Nurse!

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2454 - 09/03/2020 14:59:09    2273049

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "
Replying To Canuck:  "[quote=Cockney_Cat:  "[quote=Canuck:  "[quote=Cockney_Cat:  ""If you could not get out of Munster you were not going be in An All-Ireland"

And how was it any different in Leinster?"
The difficulty , competitiveness what ever you want to call it in winning Munster. Not trying to make any point about the quality etc.of the game in Leinster. This is just the way it was as the provincial structure was set up and the only path to the All Ireland series. If you think I am trying to minimize the achievement of any of the great Kilkenny,Wexford and Offaly teams I am not. Just that collectively the others would not have been as strong as Kilkenny at a given time in history. The statistics are there to show that."
You haven't answered my simple question, just written a load of unconnected waffle.

I repeat. You said "If you could not get out of Munster you were not going be in An All-Ireland" How is it any different to Leinster?"]What part don't you get ? If it is easier passage through you province especially when it was knock out, your chances of winning All-Ireland are greater as you will be in more. Saying that Kilkenny had to be good enough win them when getting there and were.
Further proof of that disparity is Waterford would be regarded as the weaker of the big five in Munster always. When Galway operated in Munster take a look at their record in the championship against Waterford. When they went to Leinster contenders straight away.
What I have noticed always you like to launch personnel attack on opinion expressed. Your dislike for Waterford is always apparent but that is your right. Actually you remind me of years ago when I could not go to one of our Munster championship games deciding to watch the game in the local (Kilkenny) with friends and neighbours and was amazed at the screaming for the opposition to win and calls of as long as those b--tards don't win it is fine. Lived there for 15 years, supported and admired their hurling."]Again! What are you waffling on about? You said:

"If you could not get out of Munster you were not going be in An All-Ireland" Name me a team that's never got out out of Leinster that won an All-Ireland?

"What I have noticed always you like to launch personnel attack on opinion expressed."

I asked you a question.

"Your dislike for Waterford is always apparent but that is your right."

Apparent dislike for Wateford?

"Actually you remind me of years ago when I could not go to one of our Munster championship games deciding to watch the game in the local (Kilkenny) with friends and neighbours and was amazed at the screaming for the opposition to win and calls of as long as those b--tards don't win it is fine."


Nurse!"]Sorry don't need to engage and don't need to put handles on anyone's opinion on here.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2658 - 09/03/2020 15:26:03    2273056

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Replying To CastleBravo:  "1. He was the National Hurling Development Officer, Wexford senior hurlers shouldn't really be needing his services.

2. It's a long established rule that employees of the GAA aren't allowed get into management, due to potential conflicts of interest and amateurism rules. John Evans was blocked from holding 2 jobs with Tipperary GAA for the same reason.

You're making it sound like the big bad GAA were standing in the way of hurling development."
Am I? It was far from my intention. I was just responding to a question from a wexford poster. For what's its worth I agree with your two points. I think you misinterpreted my post.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 09/03/2020 16:45:41    2273079

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