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If you think Laois and Carlow have developed to the stage where they are at Leinster championship level, why are you assuming that they're the teams that will be getting relegated?
Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 06/03/2020 14:50:34 2272511 Link 0 |
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Could never understand why some counties don't have combined championships. You could do a fully integrated tournament or if that's too much change have each county act as a group with joined knockout rounds a bit like the AI hurling and then you could still award county championships Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 06/03/2020 18:07:01 2272519 Link 0 |
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I'd say it's highly relevant, to highlight the juxtaposition between the two codes here. In football, from what I see, there's a majority of fans, players and possibly officials too, who want to keep as many teams as competitive as possible and in the elite competition. In hurling, 5 of the top teams have ring fenced themselves off, and apparently couldn't give a damn about the games development and popularity elsewhere. extranjero (Wexford) - Posts: 375 - 07/03/2020 12:55:54 2272597 Link 0 |
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Which 5? And how
Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 07/03/2020 13:47:50 2272604 Link 0 |
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Your reply suggests either; (A) You're new to hurling, or (B) You're being disingenuous. extranjero (Wexford) - Posts: 375 - 07/03/2020 14:25:13 2272607 Link 0 |
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I'm nether (A) or (B). Stop trying to be smart. I repeat Breezy's question "Which 5? And how?
Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2446 - 07/03/2020 15:20:25 2272611 Link 0 |
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No I'm not either a or b If you said big 3 ide assume Tipp,Cork and KK But 5 ? The extra 2 could be Limerick , Clare , Galway or Wexford depending on which metric you use And also tell us how this top 5 have pulled the ladder up for teams 6 to 34 at a time when we are having some of the most open championships in 100yrs and what have they done to hamper other counties Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 07/03/2020 15:42:31 2272618 Link 0 |
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I'm assuming he means the 5 top Munster teams.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4207 - 07/03/2020 15:48:20 2272620 Link 6 |
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Well if that is what he means no one in Munster is ringfenced as there is a promotion mechanism. I agree It may not be a fair one in relation to Leinster but if Kerry win JMcD and beat the team they are looking to replace they can enter and that is not ringfencing. And to point out for the millionth time here (mostly to Wexford fans for some reason) it was Kerry who used to opt out of Munster and were never booted out by the big bad top 5 Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 07/03/2020 16:00:54 2272623 Link 0 |
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You're joking, right? You're saying the reason hurling isn't as popular as football, is because 5 teams want hurling all to themselves? The reason hurling isn't as competitive as football, is because the majority of counties in the country are football first counties, and have little or no interest in promoting hurling. Do you think Cavan didn't field a senior hurling team for a few years because Galway, Cork, or Limerick were trying to thwart hurling in the county? Do you think Tipp or Kilkenny are forcing counties to not field teams in underage competition, or give walkovers in u21 B and C competitions? When it comes to changes to hurling structures etc, 5 counties can't do anything to damage hurling in the rest of the county by themselves even if they wanted to, they'd just get outvoted by every other county, if every other county board was prepared to fight for their hurlers. They're not. It just suits most other counties to not have to support hurling, so they can dedicate more time/resources to football. And by the way, people from counties like Kilkenny and Tipp go all over the country trying to promote hurling. People from the top hurling counties love hurling, and want everyone playing it. Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 07/03/2020 16:21:37 2272628 Link 0 |
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So have they been invited back in then? Have the Munster Council said "Kerry have been invited in and have declined the invite"? For what its worth, it is up to (and I do not mean this patronisingly) the developing counties (including Kerry) to start winning at U12-U21 before they can be taken seriously, but for them to be bothered putting in the resources and effort, to make that step, their has to be a tangible reward at the end. At the moment, their is no realistic reward. I think the point above about Kilkenny and Tipp helping with promoting hurling is a very true statement. But I repeat it again, there is no point if there is nothing to aim for when they reach adult hurling. StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 07/03/2020 17:31:31 2272638 Link 0 |
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I'd agree with everything you said, except for the last line. "People from the top hurling counties love hurling, and want everyone playing it." In my experience that's not true, especially amongst Munster fans. I've no doubt there's plenty like yourself with a great love of the game and sincere interest in its promotion and what's happening outside your own province. But there's more I've found who couldn't care, who greet any conversation or news of hurling in certain counties with at best a contemptuous laugh, and plenty of belittlement, as if such a thing is of any real concern to them, or anyone for that matter. And of course, plenty of condescension to go round as well, sometimes explicit, often in a more subtle form. (For example, Breezys comment earlier in this thread, "...would Laois replace Waterford in Munster if Carlow won...", The very idea, lowly Laois in Munster, Outrageous!!) But, as you rightly pointed out, the biggest problem for hurling development in over half the country is their own county boards and provincial councils attitude, usually somewhere between apathy and outright hostility to hurling. And for a lot of Munster hurling fans, that's just fine, for as you said, "...5 teams want hurling all to themselves.." extranjero (Wexford) - Posts: 375 - 07/03/2020 19:52:40 2272679 Link 0 |
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The ball is often dropped when teams like Carlow, Laois and Westmeath Antrim make a surge. Probably because of resources or something to make the followers push on. In the 70' s Waterford were in division 1 in football and only went down on scoring average. Tom Gough and the late Greg Fives were the best mid fielders in the game and outplayed the great Willie Byran and his partner on many occasions. A full back line of MIck Connolly, Jim Wall and MIck Crotty would not give many full forwards a chance. Vinny Kirwan, Tom Curran, Monty Guiry were forwards of exception ability. That is to name but a few. In the 90's won an under 21 Munster championship with the Brick and Shane Walsh. Sustainability always seems to be the problem with these teams. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 07/03/2020 19:53:59 2272680 Link 0 |
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Think you are missing the point about hurling in Kerry. Kerry hurling is based on a small number of clubs situated largely in North Kerry. It isn't up to the other 5 counties in Munster to grow the game in the rest of Kerry and it isn't their fault that it's so hard to encourage young lads from the rest of the county to devote themselves to hurling when they come from the most successful football county in Ireland. It's hard to break tradition. The tradition in Kerry is kids growing up playing football idolising their footballing heroes. This is why Kerry dont have great underage hurling success. Most underage players in the county would rather play football. To say that is the fault of the other 5 counties in Munster at county board level or any other level is just missing the obvious. Most hurling people in any county would love every young fella in the country to take up the sport. That transcends county boundaries and rivalries. If you read Nicky Rackards biography he went to Kierans and the Kilkenny lads there had a great influence on him. In Wexford football and even cricket were more popular sports at the time.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11725 - 07/03/2020 20:04:27 2272686 Link 0 |
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The ball is often dropped when teams like Carlow, Laois and Westmeath Antrim make a surge. Probably because of resources or something to make the followers push on. In the 70' s Waterford were in division 1 in football and only went down on scoring average. Tom Gough and the late Greg Fives were the best mid fielders in the game and outplayed the great Willie Byran and his partner on many occasions. A full back line of MIck Connolly, Jim Wall and MIck Crotty would not give many full forwards a chance. Vinny Kirwan, Tom Curran, Monty Guiry were forwards of exception ability. That is to name but a few. In the 90's won an under 21 Munster championship with the Brick and Shane Walsh. Sustainability always seems to be the problem with these teams. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 07/03/2020 20:36:56 2272694 Link 0 |
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Numerous tipp people for example have got involved with the likes of Antrim, laois, Offaly, Kerry, Dublin and carlow. Cork and kk hurling people have been similar. Your point is poorly made. You're blaming the top counties for not promoting hurling in other counties. It's well know Brian Cody for example takes nothing for presenting medals in some of these counties. Paudie Butler has worked for years to develop hurling but from the outside looking in he has got very little support from croke part and the county boards. tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 07/03/2020 21:30:01 2272711 Link 0 |
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You're right. And more power to them, they're doing more for the game than I ever can or will do. But that's not the point I was making. All I'm suggesting is, in my opinion, or I should say from my own personal experience, there's a not insignificant amount of Munster hurling fans who come across as, at best indifferent, and at worst, outright hostile to, hurling outside of their province. That's all. Let this not come across as a slight on any particular poster here (far from it). I'm not trying to criticise, it's merely an observation. extranjero (Wexford) - Posts: 375 - 07/03/2020 22:08:35 2272722 Link 0 |
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Paudie Butler worked with our hurlers a few years ago?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11725 - 07/03/2020 22:46:09 2272729 Link 0 |
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These drop ins to present medals and give talks are a nice gesture but not going to make a difference. Yes you are correct in some cases some do stay to coach but the county itself and the GAA need to add resources so these top people have the support. No one can do it on their own no matter how good they are.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 08/03/2020 00:36:19 2272738 Link 0 |
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If you read Nicky Rackards biography he went to Kierans and the Kilkenny lads there had a great influence on him. In Wexford football and even cricket were more popular sports at the time. Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2446 - 08/03/2020 05:53:03 2272748 Link 0 |