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Hurling Referees Destroying Hurling

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Replying To Canuck:  "Watch it again. He went in for to block and missed. Clumsy yes, deliberate no, and a card for that clumsy hit as it injured the Tipp player. Not too many comments on here about the unsportmanship betrayed in getting Kevin Moran sent off, deliberate yes."
Canuck, your loyalty to the Deise is blinding you here. Gleeson incident was a definite red card offense. I watched it several times and it looked bad the first time and worse each subsequent viewing. For me the worst thing was that it appeared that Gleeson had a good look before he struck. One thing Austin Gleeson is not. is clumsy.
A yellow would have been enough in the 2nd incident but I must question if you ever actually played hurling if you feel that a dig into that area is harmless. To be blaming the Tipp man's reaction is clutching at straws.
I really don't know what the 3rd red was for but may have had a balancing element involved. From what I did see a free to Waterford for holding a hurley was the only clear offense.
Ref might have interpreted the incident as an "attempt to strike"

Westfester (Limerick) - Posts: 898 - 03/03/2020 13:16:50    2271947

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Replying To LarryOBrother:  "I did watch it, he was early and missed the ball by a foot and struck the tipp player in the side of the head. U10's don't "miss" by that much. Deliberate and cowardly, don't understand how you can defend that. Hope it gets upgraded to a straight red."
I never did defend it and said it deserved a card. It is ridiculous to say that Gleeson went in to deliberate hit the Tipp player. However I will say it for the third time calling him or any player a cowardly is not acceptable. The moderator choose to take that out but is o.k. with the use of referencing a player in this manner.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 914 - 03/03/2020 13:53:03    2271961

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Replying To Westfester:  "Canuck, your loyalty to the Deise is blinding you here. Gleeson incident was a definite red card offense. I watched it several times and it looked bad the first time and worse each subsequent viewing. For me the worst thing was that it appeared that Gleeson had a good look before he struck. One thing Austin Gleeson is not. is clumsy.
A yellow would have been enough in the 2nd incident but I must question if you ever actually played hurling if you feel that a dig into that area is harmless. To be blaming the Tipp man's reaction is clutching at straws.
I really don't know what the 3rd red was for but may have had a balancing element involved. From what I did see a free to Waterford for holding a hurley was the only clear offense.
Ref might have interpreted the incident as an "attempt to strike""
Where did I say in any of my posts that Gleeson's was not a red card or say it was harmless ? Please read them again. I am not a big fan of Gleeson to begin with and would replace him with DeBurca as soon as he is fit. Liam Cahill knows what he is doing but hopefully he will recall one of the best corner backs in the country Connors. Shanahan was by far the best forward in the county in 2019.
Gleeson may not be clumsy but this strike was, but no excuse for it. What I take issue with is calling any player cowardly from any county or team. I come on here and comment on many issues objectively but never with rosy tinted glasses or blinded.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 914 - 03/03/2020 18:22:50    2272028

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Replying To LarryOBrother:  "I did watch it, he was early and missed the ball by a foot and struck the tipp player in the side of the head. U10's don't "miss" by that much. Deliberate and cowardly, don't understand how you can defend that. Hope it gets upgraded to a straight red."
Seffo straight red total disregard for the other player, if he can't control himself then the rules will

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4379 - 03/03/2020 19:11:30    2272037

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Replying To Canuck:  "Where did I say in any of my posts that Gleeson's was not a red card or say it was harmless ? Please read them again. I am not a big fan of Gleeson to begin with and would replace him with DeBurca as soon as he is fit. Liam Cahill knows what he is doing but hopefully he will recall one of the best corner backs in the country Connors. Shanahan was by far the best forward in the county in 2019.
Gleeson may not be clumsy but this strike was, but no excuse for it. What I take issue with is calling any player cowardly from any county or team. I come on here and comment on many issues objectively but never with rosy tinted glasses or blinded."
If you read my post again you might see that I was referencing the 2nd incident when I commented on your 'harmless' description.
You stated that there was no intent in Gleeson's strike to his opponents head. I would think you are in a very small minority holding that opinion.

Westfester (Limerick) - Posts: 898 - 03/03/2020 23:14:13    2272086

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Replying To Westfester:  "Canuck, your loyalty to the Deise is blinding you here. Gleeson incident was a definite red card offense. I watched it several times and it looked bad the first time and worse each subsequent viewing. For me the worst thing was that it appeared that Gleeson had a good look before he struck. One thing Austin Gleeson is not. is clumsy.
A yellow would have been enough in the 2nd incident but I must question if you ever actually played hurling if you feel that a dig into that area is harmless. To be blaming the Tipp man's reaction is clutching at straws.
I really don't know what the 3rd red was for but may have had a balancing element involved. From what I did see a free to Waterford for holding a hurley was the only clear offense.
Ref might have interpreted the incident as an "attempt to strike""
" I must question if if you ever actually played hurling "
I did not know that my hurling C.V. was required to have an opinion and contribute to the conversation on here. However if it is important to you give me an e-mail address and I will provide it to you. In fact I can share my full sporting career with you that includes representing my country. Not that makes me any better than anyone else or any thing I need to or will share publicly.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 914 - 03/03/2020 23:18:54    2272087

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Anyone remotely trying to downplay Gleeson's pull has not got any clue about the game. It was a shocking pull, it was dangerous, he knew exactly what he was doing and considering his skill levels it was a scandalous act. Cahill should drop him as a lesson. Selfish act.

Bellewest (Westmeath) - Posts: 150 - 04/03/2020 10:46:58    2272133

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Nothing drives me more bonkers than the GAA asking managers what they think of everything. Rule changes, club matches, refereeing is all dictated by inter county managers.
The sooner the media stop asking these managers what they think, the better. They have already been allowed run club championships into the ground, now they want the rule book thrown away in hurling.
Time the GAA backed referees, came out and said "We dont care what Davy Fitz or Brian Cody or Liam Sheedy or whoever thinks about refereeing."
Even the title of this thread is ridiculous.
But there is also an obligation on players to stop diving and feigning injury to get their opponent sent off. That is ruining the game far more than any referee is in my view. Every county is at it and it is an awful vista to look at.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 807 - 04/03/2020 10:56:53    2272139

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Gleeson's 2nd yellow should actually have been a red card. And don't start saying that 'it amounted to the same thing' as it doesn't, if he got a straight red he misses the next day. With the second Waterford Red, I don't believe it was intentional, just a gesture like don't mess with me type of thing, granted the Tipp player went down but hopped up straight away, no harm by him either, just the quickest way to avoid the hit. Yellow at most. The last Red an absolute joke, there is more contact among people every day on a half empty street.
So the ref actually got two calls wrong and if Austin Gleason got two yellows then he got all calls wrong.

MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 695 - 04/03/2020 12:01:01    2272155

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Replying To Westfester:  "If you read my post again you might see that I was referencing the 2nd incident when I commented on your 'harmless' description.
You stated that there was no intent in Gleeson's strike to his opponents head. I would think you are in a very small minority holding that opinion."
AgainI never used the word harmless. I said the Tipp player involved embellished the incident. Up and running as soon as the red card was handed out. I would think that the majority on here realize that this is a mean trait that has become common with all teams. Again my opinion is that Gleeson did not go for that ball with intent to hit his opponent on the head and he is not a "coward". This is not to detract from the fact that it was dangerous play and warranted a red card. In hockey you are responsible to be in control of your stick. If you hit the player on follow through of your shot it is not an offence. A good rule. Gleeson's hit would fail both of these criteria if applied.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 914 - 04/03/2020 14:08:09    2272187

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Replying To Canuck:  "I never did defend it and said it deserved a card. It is ridiculous to say that Gleeson went in to deliberate hit the Tipp player. However I will say it for the third time calling him or any player a cowardly is not acceptable. The moderator choose to take that out but is o.k. with the use of referencing a player in this manner."
He hit the Tipp player in the side of the head intentionally when he wasn't looking.
The more i look at it the worse it gets. Look at the link below at 52:20 and tell me again that that is not a deliberate strike.

https://www.tg4.ie/en/player/play/?pid=6137417698001&title=GAA%20Beo&series=GAA%20Beo&genre=Sport&pcode=107422

LarryOBrother (Wexford) - Posts: 215 - 04/03/2020 14:23:05    2272189

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Replying To Canuck:  "I never did defend it and said it deserved a card. It is ridiculous to say that Gleeson went in to deliberate hit the Tipp player. However I will say it for the third time calling him or any player a cowardly is not acceptable. The moderator choose to take that out but is o.k. with the use of referencing a player in this manner."
He hit the Tipp player in the side of the head intentionally when he wasn't looking. The more i look at it the worse it gets. Look at the link below at 52:20 and tell me again that that is not a deliberate strike.

https://www.tg4.ie/en/player/play/?pid=6137417698001&title=GAA%20Beo&series=GAA%20Beo&genre=Sport&pcode=107422

LarryOBrother (Wexford) - Posts: 215 - 04/03/2020 14:28:28    2272191

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gleeson was a straight red all day long and i would say the same if it was a wexford player

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3771 - 04/03/2020 15:51:39    2272207

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Replying To Canuck:  "AgainI never used the word harmless. I said the Tipp player involved embellished the incident. Up and running as soon as the red card was handed out. I would think that the majority on here realize that this is a mean trait that has become common with all teams. Again my opinion is that Gleeson did not go for that ball with intent to hit his opponent on the head and he is not a "coward". This is not to detract from the fact that it was dangerous play and warranted a red card. In hockey you are responsible to be in control of your stick. If you hit the player on follow through of your shot it is not an offence. A good rule. Gleeson's hit would fail both of these criteria if applied."
Canuck, you usually make a lot of sense but I'm not sure which incident you're referring to when you say "the Tipp player involved embellished the incident. Up and running as soon as the red card was handed out", so I'll deal with both incidents. Cian Darcy was down for quite a while and when he got to his feet he didn't even put back on his helmet but went straight to the subs' bench. I doubt if he even saw the red card and he certainly wasn't "up and running" afterwards. On the Kevin Moran incident, Jason Forde was down for about two seconds and was on his feet even before the referee got to speak to his linesman and long before the red card was handed out. Neither can I make sense of your earlier assertion that Forde instigated this incident. Why would Forde instigate a confrontation with Moran? Kevin Moran is a fine hurler and a very strong man; no forward with any sense would want to engage in a physical battle with him and Jason Forde is no fool.

midlands (Westmeath) - Posts: 199 - 04/03/2020 17:26:07    2272226

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Replying To midlands:  "Canuck, you usually make a lot of sense but I'm not sure which incident you're referring to when you say "the Tipp player involved embellished the incident. Up and running as soon as the red card was handed out", so I'll deal with both incidents. Cian Darcy was down for quite a while and when he got to his feet he didn't even put back on his helmet but went straight to the subs' bench. I doubt if he even saw the red card and he certainly wasn't "up and running" afterwards. On the Kevin Moran incident, Jason Forde was down for about two seconds and was on his feet even before the referee got to speak to his linesman and long before the red card was handed out. Neither can I make sense of your earlier assertion that Forde instigated this incident. Why would Forde instigate a confrontation with Moran? Kevin Moran is a fine hurler and a very strong man; no forward with any sense would want to engage in a physical battle with him and Jason Forde is no fool."
So you really think Kevin Moran took a swipe at Jason Forde just out of the blue? That is the problem with a lot of these incidents the retaliator is caught and players are now wise to this. So niggling is profitable. Yes the rules are the rules but lines men can not monitor the play prior to the incident and are probably not asked anyway. A referee in both halves of the field would have a better chance.
To summarize the sending offs. Gleeson red card. Moran yellow and Barrett nothing that I could see. At the very most yellow for interfering with Hutchison much the same as Moran. Not critical of refs in anyway as they can only use the tools they have and that does not include eyes in the back of their head and the speed of a leopard.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 914 - 04/03/2020 18:35:23    2272236

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Replying To Canuck:  "So you really think Kevin Moran took a swipe at Jason Forde just out of the blue? That is the problem with a lot of these incidents the retaliator is caught and players are now wise to this. So niggling is profitable. Yes the rules are the rules but lines men can not monitor the play prior to the incident and are probably not asked anyway. A referee in both halves of the field would have a better chance.
To summarize the sending offs. Gleeson red card. Moran yellow and Barrett nothing that I could see. At the very most yellow for interfering with Hutchison much the same as Moran. Not critical of refs in anyway as they can only use the tools they have and that does not include eyes in the back of their head and the speed of a leopard."
I don't claim to know exactly what happened between Moran and Forde but I don't believe it would make any sense for Forde to initiate a physical battle with Moran, where there would be only one winner. Neither do I believe that Forde set out to get Moran sent off. If that was his intention he wouldn't have got back to his feet so quickly. And I hope you accept that he was back on his feet long before the red card appeared.

I agree that referees have a difficult job and in fact I thought Sean Stack did a good job for the first half hour last Sunday. After the Gleeson red card I thought he seemed to be a little bit rattled but in fairness he cannot be blamed for the other two red cards. Moran was dismissed on the evidence of a linesman who was very close to the incident, while Barrett was sent off on the evidence of an umpire who was almost 100 yards away. I certainly hope we haven't seen the last of Stack as a referee as I believe he can develop into a top-class official. Incidentally, I would value your opinion on your own county's referee named Walsh. I've only seen him twice but I was impressed. We need all the good officials we can get, and it's a pity that they get so much criticism from managers, analysts and anonymous commentators.

midlands (Westmeath) - Posts: 199 - 04/03/2020 20:22:04    2272252

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Replying To midlands:  "I don't claim to know exactly what happened between Moran and Forde but I don't believe it would make any sense for Forde to initiate a physical battle with Moran, where there would be only one winner. Neither do I believe that Forde set out to get Moran sent off. If that was his intention he wouldn't have got back to his feet so quickly. And I hope you accept that he was back on his feet long before the red card appeared.

I agree that referees have a difficult job and in fact I thought Sean Stack did a good job for the first half hour last Sunday. After the Gleeson red card I thought he seemed to be a little bit rattled but in fairness he cannot be blamed for the other two red cards. Moran was dismissed on the evidence of a linesman who was very close to the incident, while Barrett was sent off on the evidence of an umpire who was almost 100 yards away. I certainly hope we haven't seen the last of Stack as a referee as I believe he can develop into a top-class official. Incidentally, I would value your opinion on your own county's referee named Walsh. I've only seen him twice but I was impressed. We need all the good officials we can get, and it's a pity that they get so much criticism from managers, analysts and anonymous commentators."
So explain to me what makes him a good ref? To use your words as he got "...... so much criticism from managers, analysts and anonymous commentators." seems pretty damning and conclusive to me.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4379 - 04/03/2020 21:21:05    2272259

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Replying To arock:  "So explain to me what makes him a good ref? To use your words as he got "...... so much criticism from managers, analysts and anonymous commentators." seems pretty damning and conclusive to me."
Read my post again - I was talking about referees in general being criticised - I don't think anyone can argue with that.

midlands (Westmeath) - Posts: 199 - 04/03/2020 22:23:32    2272268

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Hurling folk are in denial about cynicism in my view.

gahfan (Wexford) - Posts: 488 - 04/03/2020 23:03:38    2272277

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Replying To Canuck:  "I never did defend it and said it deserved a card. It is ridiculous to say that Gleeson went in to deliberate hit the Tipp player. However I will say it for the third time calling him or any player a cowardly is not acceptable. The moderator choose to take that out but is o.k. with the use of referencing a player in this manner."
I believe he is saying the strike was cowardly not the player? In fairness I don't think you can equate a street brawl to this although like in may sports players get away with things on the pitch that they would face jail time for on the street.
I am sure Gleeson would say he didn't mean it and I am sure he believes that however we have to stamp out that notion that you can be reckless with challenges around a players head, red cards every time regardless of intent, who the player is (still annoyed that Murphy did not get a red against Dublin) or if in the time of the game. I read recently where the crackdown on high challenges in rugby is having a impact on the reduction of concussion cases so it would say that it works. The difference is that everyone in rugby has accepted that it has to stop for the sake of the game but unfortunately in the GAA we get apologists rolled out every week who believe that cracking down on dangerous play is endangering the game. For me a yellow card is not even a deterrent, I would be in favor of ever yellow also being a sin bin offense, only when the team suffers will the attitude of managers and players change.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 957 - 05/03/2020 01:49:28    2272286

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