National Forum

Cork's Commemorate Jersey

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Replying To BaldyBadger:  "There are many Protestants in Cork who play GAA and would have no problem with the shirt, as many Protestants were patriots as well. The Protestant/catholic divide was not near as toxic down here. I think in the north, Catholic had to deal with an entirely different problem, which of course had a very different set of issues.
I am conflicted on this. I like the jersey and think these events should be commemorated, but I do agree that politics should be kept out of sport.
Separately, I don't see commemorating the war of independence and patriots as controversial however. We don't need to apologise for being republicans and wanting our own sovereignty. The British understand that as much as anybody."
I see no reason why they can't go the way of the GAA 1916 commemorative shirt. Lets those who want it, buy it, money maker for the county, etc., A lot to be said for that. Just not as a shirt on game day.

To the person that objected to my use of Hiroshima, and the use of the shirt for international sport have sort of made my point for me. It's all relative. 100% subjective. I live in the states and I can tell you that the overwhelming majority of people here would have no problem whatsoever commemorating an event that in their eyes shortened the war and saved American lives. Yes, it's unlikely to happen, and why? Because people realize a military event where people were killed is not something that belongs on a sports shirt. To be clear, I feel the same for the poppy shirts in England. It trivializes an important event, and turns something that should be the cause of introspective meditation and thought on the evils of war, into a jingoistic flag waving celebration. Time and a place for everything, and a sporting event is neither the time nor the place for such displays.

festinog (Galway) - Posts: 3097 - 22/02/2020 18:32:19    2269048

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Well done to Cork for honouring great Irish men who had to die for all our freedom. There comes a time in the history of all nations where the ultimate sacrifices are required to set people free from tyranny. In Ireland at the moment there is large section of society who want us to apologise for Irish people having to fight and kill and die for our freedom. Every nation on the planet has had to do this at some stage and they should all honour these heroes and they do. To not honour all these people is disrespectful and selfish and this is not to disrespect the defeated but we shouldn't have to apologise for our patriots.

updwell (Limerick) - Posts: 817 - 22/02/2020 19:06:09    2269052

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Replying To BaldyBadger:  "I have to say, I lived in London for over 30 years and I have never seen a 4th of July celebration outside of an American bar. That's a strange comment by you I think."
Lots of the chain groups try cash in on July 4th with gimmicky events. Wetherspoons for instance have a special American beer menu as part of their series of beer festival promotions
I think it's a fairly new phenomenon but I've been working hospitality in London for almost 10yrs now and have been stuck having to be involved in plenty of em.

Most locals are either oblivious to it or don't care about the history and just enjoy some American culture.

This exact pattern is repeated for Paddy's Day and other such events

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 22/02/2020 19:13:41    2269055

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I can't see wetherspoons celebrating any centenery in Ireland for next three years.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4896 - 22/02/2020 22:14:40    2269132

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Replying To arock:  "I can't see wetherspoons celebrating any centenery in Ireland for next three years."
Haha I doubt it too. Plenty of I'll will here for the Irish at the moment for having the cheek to upset Brexit

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 22/02/2020 23:31:04    2269162

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Personally as a Gaeilgoir, I would prefer to see the Irish language used more in the GAA and in Corcaigh, than commemorating military or political events. But as the Irish language is not going to be revived, uniting the island is the second choice.

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2519 - 23/02/2020 19:37:13    2269405

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Replying To Breezy:  "Lots of the chain groups try cash in on July 4th with gimmicky events. Wetherspoons for instance have a special American beer menu as part of their series of beer festival promotions
I think it's a fairly new phenomenon but I've been working hospitality in London for almost 10yrs now and have been stuck having to be involved in plenty of em.

Most locals are either oblivious to it or don't care about the history and just enjoy some American culture.

This exact pattern is repeated for Paddy's Day and other such events"
Nonsense. Speaking as a Londoner, there is hardly any celebration of the 4th of July. To equate it to the celebrations of St Patricks Day is ridiculous.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2467 - 23/02/2020 20:10:30    2269430

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Replying To updwell:  "Well done to Cork for honouring great Irish men who had to die for all our freedom. There comes a time in the history of all nations where the ultimate sacrifices are required to set people free from tyranny. In Ireland at the moment there is large section of society who want us to apologise for Irish people having to fight and kill and die for our freedom. Every nation on the planet has had to do this at some stage and they should all honour these heroes and they do. To not honour all these people is disrespectful and selfish and this is not to disrespect the defeated but we shouldn't have to apologise for our patriots."
So you'll be fine if certain GAA clubs in Kerry let's say; wear a badge on their sports shirts to commemorate the The Ballyseedy Massacre.

That night, 6/7 March, nine Republican prisoners who had previously been tortured, with bones broken with hammers, were taken from Ballymullen Barracks in Tralee to Ballyseedy crossroads and tied to a landmine which was detonated, after which the survivors were machine-gunned. One of the prisoners, Stephen Fuller, was blown to safety by the blast of the explosion. He was taken in at the nearby home of Michael and Hannah Curran. They cared for him and although he was badly injured, he survived. Fuller later became a Fianna Fáil TD. The Free State troops in nearby Tralee had prepared nine coffins. There was a riot when the bodies were brought back to Tralee, where the enraged relatives of the killed prisoners broke open the coffins in an effort to identify their dead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executions_during_the_Irish_Civil_War#The_Ballyseedy_Massacre_and_its_aftermath

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2467 - 23/02/2020 20:22:33    2269438

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Instead of changing jerseys, why not play a team that might at least compete for All Ireland? How about NASH, ODonoghue, McDonnell, Spillane, Downey, Coleman, Damian Cahalane, Cooper, Fitzgibbon, O' Flynn, Harnedy,Kingston, Dalton, Horgan, Cadogan. (Mark Ellis if back from injury would be an option for center back)

Rockies (Cork) - Posts: 947 - 23/02/2020 20:41:11    2269446

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "Nonsense. Speaking as a Londoner, there is hardly any celebration of the 4th of July. To equate it to the celebrations of St Patricks Day is ridiculous."
As I have said twice now most Londoners are oblivious to it. But a quick Google will show that many events happen in London on the day but it's gimmicky crap run by pubs and restaurants

https://londonist.com/london/things-to-do/independence-day-events-where-to-celebrate-4-july-in-london

This is just 1 site and there are many more advertising events in central London

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 23/02/2020 20:53:10    2269457

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "So you'll be fine if certain GAA clubs in Kerry let's say; wear a badge on their sports shirts to commemorate the The Ballyseedy Massacre.

That night, 6/7 March, nine Republican prisoners who had previously been tortured, with bones broken with hammers, were taken from Ballymullen Barracks in Tralee to Ballyseedy crossroads and tied to a landmine which was detonated, after which the survivors were machine-gunned. One of the prisoners, Stephen Fuller, was blown to safety by the blast of the explosion. He was taken in at the nearby home of Michael and Hannah Curran. They cared for him and although he was badly injured, he survived. Fuller later became a Fianna Fáil TD. The Free State troops in nearby Tralee had prepared nine coffins. There was a riot when the bodies were brought back to Tralee, where the enraged relatives of the killed prisoners broke open the coffins in an effort to identify their dead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executions_during_the_Irish_Civil_War#The_Ballyseedy_Massacre_and_its_aftermath"
Which clubs in Kerry are doing this ? I was talking about independence movements not Civil wars which are always dirty and nasty with wrongs on all sides.
I think we should be celebrating our patriots and freedom fighters like every free nation does and not be embarrassed by it. War is a dirty business with very few good guys but no country in the World has achieved freedom by discussing it in a coffee shop or writing about it in the paper or discussing it on a form. The 2 Mayors of Cork gave their lives for Ireland-1on hunger strike, 1 assassinated by the RIC, what's wrong with remembering them?

updwell (Limerick) - Posts: 817 - 23/02/2020 21:04:45    2269463

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After looking at the Cork jerseys I really have to ask how and why this is allowed? Don't get me wrong I understand and applaud those who fought and died for Irish freedom. But I just think this sets off an awful precedence that we are all going to regret. We have difficult centeneries to reconcile over next few years especially atrocities in the civil war. I do not believe this method is the correct way to commemorate and remember these events. GAA is A political and should be scrupulously so.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4896 - 23/02/2020 21:21:49    2269478

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Replying To updwell:  "
Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "So you'll be fine if certain GAA clubs in Kerry let's say; wear a badge on their sports shirts to commemorate the The Ballyseedy Massacre.

That night, 6/7 March, nine Republican prisoners who had previously been tortured, with bones broken with hammers, were taken from Ballymullen Barracks in Tralee to Ballyseedy crossroads and tied to a landmine which was detonated, after which the survivors were machine-gunned. One of the prisoners, Stephen Fuller, was blown to safety by the blast of the explosion. He was taken in at the nearby home of Michael and Hannah Curran. They cared for him and although he was badly injured, he survived. Fuller later became a Fianna Fáil TD. The Free State troops in nearby Tralee had prepared nine coffins. There was a riot when the bodies were brought back to Tralee, where the enraged relatives of the killed prisoners broke open the coffins in an effort to identify their dead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executions_during_the_Irish_Civil_War#The_Ballyseedy_Massacre_and_its_aftermath"
Which clubs in Kerry are doing this ? I was talking about independence movements not Civil wars which are always dirty and nasty with wrongs on all sides.
I think we should be celebrating our patriots and freedom fighters like every free nation does and not be embarrassed by it. War is a dirty business with very few good guys but no country in the World has achieved freedom by discussing it in a coffee shop or writing about it in the paper or discussing it on a form. The 2 Mayors of Cork gave their lives for Ireland-1on hunger strike, 1 assassinated by the RIC, what's wrong with remembering them?"
" I was talking about independence movements not Civil wars" The Irish Civil War was about Independence; if you don't realise that, it's pointless discussing it with to you.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2467 - 23/02/2020 21:35:31    2269489

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Replying To arock:  "I can't see wetherspoons celebrating any centenery in Ireland for next three years."
Wetherspoons will celebrate anything that gets punters through the doors and money in the tills.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2467 - 23/02/2020 21:38:43    2269492

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "
Replying To updwell:  "[quote=Cockney_Cat:  "So you'll be fine if certain GAA clubs in Kerry let's say; wear a badge on their sports shirts to commemorate the The Ballyseedy Massacre.

That night, 6/7 March, nine Republican prisoners who had previously been tortured, with bones broken with hammers, were taken from Ballymullen Barracks in Tralee to Ballyseedy crossroads and tied to a landmine which was detonated, after which the survivors were machine-gunned. One of the prisoners, Stephen Fuller, was blown to safety by the blast of the explosion. He was taken in at the nearby home of Michael and Hannah Curran. They cared for him and although he was badly injured, he survived. Fuller later became a Fianna Fáil TD. The Free State troops in nearby Tralee had prepared nine coffins. There was a riot when the bodies were brought back to Tralee, where the enraged relatives of the killed prisoners broke open the coffins in an effort to identify their dead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executions_during_the_Irish_Civil_War#The_Ballyseedy_Massacre_and_its_aftermath"
Which clubs in Kerry are doing this ? I was talking about independence movements not Civil wars which are always dirty and nasty with wrongs on all sides.
I think we should be celebrating our patriots and freedom fighters like every free nation does and not be embarrassed by it. War is a dirty business with very few good guys but no country in the World has achieved freedom by discussing it in a coffee shop or writing about it in the paper or discussing it on a form. The 2 Mayors of Cork gave their lives for Ireland-1on hunger strike, 1 assassinated by the RIC, what's wrong with remembering them?"
" I was talking about independence movements not Civil wars" The Irish Civil War was about Independence; if you don't realise that, it's pointless discussing it with to you."]I know my history Cockney Cat so don't worry about that.What has this Cork jersey got to do with the Civil war anyway-there is no reference to it on the jersey today. We're talking about the Cork jersey today not what some club in Kerry might put on their own one(where did that ridiculous suggestion come from)

updwell (Limerick) - Posts: 817 - 23/02/2020 22:02:27    2269508

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Replying To arock:  "After looking at the Cork jerseys I really have to ask how and why this is allowed? Don't get me wrong I understand and applaud those who fought and died for Irish freedom. But I just think this sets off an awful precedence that we are all going to regret. We have difficult centeneries to reconcile over next few years especially atrocities in the civil war. I do not believe this method is the correct way to commemorate and remember these events. GAA is A political and should be scrupulously so."
Time you read the GAA constitution......suppose we don't remember Bloody Sunday either this year....

ArmaghCat (Armagh) - Posts: 86 - 23/02/2020 22:36:16    2269521

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Replying To arock:  "After looking at the Cork jerseys I really have to ask how and why this is allowed? Don't get me wrong I understand and applaud those who fought and died for Irish freedom. But I just think this sets off an awful precedence that we are all going to regret. We have difficult centeneries to reconcile over next few years especially atrocities in the civil war. I do not believe this method is the correct way to commemorate and remember these events. GAA is A political and should be scrupulously so."
Here, here. Well said.

festinog (Galway) - Posts: 3097 - 23/02/2020 22:44:57    2269527

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Replying To Breezy:  "Haha I doubt it too. Plenty of I'll will here for the Irish at the moment for having the cheek to upset Brexit"
ill will towards the irish in england? I think you are talking out of your hole. Again. As with the 4th July rubbish. Just because a bar does a drinks promo doesnt mean a country is celebrating it. I've never seen it celebrated in all my years here.

You'll find with brexit the only ill will is between the remainers and leavers.

Miami305 (Galway) - Posts: 147 - 24/02/2020 11:09:02    2269634

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Replying To BaldyBadger:  "I have to say, I lived in London for over 30 years and I have never seen a 4th of July celebration outside of an American bar. That's a strange comment by you I think."
Completely accurate.

Miami305 (Galway) - Posts: 147 - 24/02/2020 11:10:22    2269636

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Replying To suckvalleypaddy:  "Cork are the rebel county, they say, so FairPlay. Every county has them. I wonder would the GAA allow the Hunger Strikers on jerseys? 40th Anniversary coming up? I'm fine with it."
An horrific idea. I know with the success of Sinn Fein in the recent election, the country seems to be in the throes of a misty-eyed nostalgia for "the troubles", but I think commemorating the Provisional IRA on county jerseys would be a retrograde move.

TheImmortal (USA) - Posts: 24 - 24/02/2020 11:47:31    2269655

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